Summit Cruises Canceled

[Jeremiah1212]

8 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Thank you for sharing! That puts our Nov. 12 cruise off the books so it would be great if someone from X would let us know before another week/month goes by.  BTW...I understand your logic and also Host Anne's.  Tough time for cruise lines and passengers alike.  We're all somewhat at 'sea' with decision making.

 

Not necessarily. The Conditional Sail Order could expire on November 1 making these rules irrelevant by your November 12 cruise. It would make sense why the Apex TA was pushed back. There's a 3 and a 4 night Apex cruise October 24th and 28th that would have to be canceled or the TA has to sail with no passengers. Under this logic, both the TA and the 3/4 nighters cannot take place with passengers onboard. Anything after Nov 1 is potentially fair game. To be honest I have absolutely no good advice for you  🙈

Edited August 10, 2021 by Jeremiah1212

[Josie201]

4 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Not necessarily. The Conditional Sail Order could expire on November 1 making these rules irrelevant by your November 12 cruise. It would make sense why the Apex TA was pushed back. There's a 3 and a 4 night Apex cruise October 24th and 28th that would have to be canceled or the TA has to sail with no passengers. Under this logic, both the TA and the 3/4 nighters cannot take place with passengers onboard. Anything after Nov 1 is potentially fair game. To be honest I have absolutely no good advice for you  🙈

Yes the silhouette has a three night cruise followed by the 11 night TA.  We are with Oceangoer scheduled to board in the 12th.  
 

and we’re from Canada with two in our party currently considered not fully vaxxed by Celebrity.  
 

and the border remains closed.  Other than that …. We made final payment today.  And we wait …..

Edited August 10, 2021 by Josie201

[Nymich]

No way do I see them dropping the CSO but this is one I would like to be wrong about!

[PBTravelBug]

I just got off the phone with my TA.

I re-booked my Summit cruise - I may just be kicking the can down the road.

A heads up to all who may do the same...at first Celebrity wanted to charge the difference between my 9/2 fare and the new sailing (about $100 pp). Please keep your emailed notification from Celebrity on hand. We directly quoted the letter and then Celebrity said - ok we can do that. Now re-booked same cabin grade etc..

If the refund option was the choice - it can take up to 90 days for the refund to show and there is nothing the TA can do to expedite the refund.

 

[markeb]

27 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Not necessarily. The Conditional Sail Order could expire on November 1 making these rules irrelevant by your November 12 cruise. It would make sense why the Apex TA was pushed back. There's a 3 and a 4 night Apex cruise October 24th and 28th that would have to be canceled or the TA has to sail with no passengers. Under this logic, both the TA and the 3/4 nighters cannot take place with passengers onboard. Anything after Nov 1 is potentially fair game. To be honest I have absolutely no good advice for you  🙈

In some ways, pushing back the TAs makes a lot of sense, if the terms of the NSO expire. One thing people forget is operating outside the NSO also brought pratique into question. Which could have potentially resulted in quarantine of passengers (possible but not certain). Or having to bring back empty ships. 

[marieps]

1 minute ago, markeb said:

In some ways, pushing back the TAs makes a lot of sense, if the terms of the NSO expire. One thing people forget is operating outside the NSO also brought pratique into question. Which could have potentially resulted in quarantine of passengers (possible but not certain). Or having to bring back empty ships. 

Mark,

As you know I consider you opinions on all things federal to be of great value.  As it stands, do you believe the Apex 10/10 TA and Silhouette's Nov 1 TA are in peril?

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, markeb said:

The requirements in the original NSO, incorporated into the Federal Registry in October of 2020 with comments from the industry were well known to Celebrity before they made a business decision to start cruises outside the requirements of the NSO.

 

From the Federal Registry on applicability:

 

(f) As a condition of obtaining or retaining a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate, cruise ship operators must comply with the requirements of this framework. These requirements apply to any cruise ship operating in U.S. waters and to cruise ships operating outside of U.S. waters if the cruise ship operator intends for the ship to return to operating in U.S. waters at any time while Order remains in effect.

 

The NSO guidance already posted in this thread on quarantine actions to enter service in US waters is also almost a year old.

 

Celebrity made a business decision to operate outside the Framework in St Maarten. That's fine. Then they made a really dumb business decision to sell cruises out of US waters during the time they would be subject to quarantine to come back into compliance. A time period well known to them before they moved the ships to St Maarten. That's on Celebrity. There's nothing new in the CDC position.

 

You can make an argument that Celebrity could ignore the NSO at this point in Florida, but they've also made a business decision to voluntary comply with what are now recommendations. But there's nothing new from the CDC or the federal government here; it's been in place since last October. And it would be an interesting legal argument whether the CDC can even change a requirement impacting the State of Florida that's under injunction and appeal...

 

I would like to believe these conversations occurred with the various players before moving the ships to St Maarten, but don't know. Selling cruises you know you can't operate is on Celebrity. And then cancelling them this close is even worse.

Well said, I agree completely. I might have given Celebrity the benefit of the doubt on the reason for the late cancellation were it not for the fact that they did the same thing last year on multiple occasions. After Canada announced the ban on cruises to or from Canadian ports in early March last year, Celebrity not only didn't cancel effected cruises within a reasonable time frame, it continued selling bookings.

[canderson]

3 minutes ago, markeb said:

One thing people forget is operating outside the NSO also brought pratique into question.

But what would it have entailed to get 'out of jail'?  What sort of inspection?  Something that could have been accomplished fairly quickly?  Or are you suggesting a true quarantine?

[markeb]

19 minutes ago, canderson said:

But what would it have entailed to get 'out of jail'?  What sort of inspection?  Something that could have been accomplished fairly quickly?  Or are you suggesting a true quarantine?

I think it’s unlikely, but it is on the spectrum of possibilities. I don’t know what would happen. I honestly think testing similar to air travel would be much more likely.

[markeb]

24 minutes ago, marieps said:

Mark,

As you know I consider you opinions on all things federal to be of great value.  As it stands, do you believe the Apex 10/10 TA and Silhouette's Nov 1 TA are in peril?

I hope not. The calculus on Celebrity is probably pretty complicated. I’m hoping Celebrity is having a lot of conversations that I don’t know they had pre SXM. 

 

But the NSO adds complications…

[kearney]

10 hours ago, lovrccl said:

Just go this email

ABOUT YOUR UPCOMING TRAVELS

Dear Guest,   We are reaching out to provide an update on the status of your 2021 cruise vacation. Celebrity Cruises has been working closely with health and government authorities, in each country we sail from, to outline a clear path for cruising with new health and safety measures. As we continue our return to service with sailings arriving and departing from the United States, we are also ensuring alignment with guidance provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The CDC has currently advised any ship returning to the US after having traveled in international waters may not sail with guests onboard for at least 14 days. Due to this necessary requirement we will be cancelling the Celebrity Summit® sailings of August 28, 2021, September 2, 2021, September 6, 2021 and September 11, 2021.   At this time, we would like to offer you the choice of being re-accommodated on another Caribbean cruise or a 100% Refund. From now through August 17, you have the option of rescheduling your cruise vacation to any Caribbean sailing aboard Celebrity Summit departing between September 16, 2021 and October 30,2021. Just contact us or your travel partner for details and your reservation will be shifted at the same daily rate including any promotion you currently have on the booking. Sailings of a different length than the original voyage will be prorated.   Please note, all Celebrity Cruises ships will sail with a vaccinated crew and at least 95% of guests fully vaccinated. Guests 12 years and older must be fully vaccinated with all COVID-19 vaccine doses administered at least 14 days prior to sailing. For details on our current health and safety protocols please visit  www.healthyatsea.com.   If you are unable to rebook by August 17, you will automatically receive a 100% refund to your original method of payment. Cruise taxes and fees will be refunded separately within 30 days of cancellation. No action is required on your part to receive this refund.   If you have pre-booked any shore excursions, beverage, internet, specialty dining or other onboard packages, through Celebrity Cruise Planner, you will be refunded in full to your original method of payment. Guests with independent arrangements should contact their tour operators as soon as possible. Guests with air travel and hotel booked through Flights by Celebrity will be refunded automatically. You will not need to call in to initiate the process. Guests with independent air arrangements need to contact their air carriers directly to make all required cancellations.   First and always, please take care of yourselves and your family. Thank you for your patience and understanding as we work through these unique circumstances. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact Celebrity Cruises at 1-844-418-6824 in North America or (316) 554-5961 worldwide. We look forward to welcoming you aboard soon for an amazing Celebrity Cruises vacation.     Sincerely, Celebrity Cruises

I am confused... any ship sailing out of US ports is entering international waters... So will this impact all ships sailing? I know Summit has been out of the US for months... but I don't understand the difference between sailing from Miami to St Maarten and other Caribbean ports... and sailing out of St Maarten to these same ports and then to Miami after a few months vs a week or so.  Can someone explain why this would only apply to Summit and not all ships.. Honestly it sounds like people are just making things up at this point.

[canderson]

8 minutes ago, kearney said:

Can someone explain why this would only apply to Summit and not all ships.. Honestly it sounds like people are just making things up at this point.

It appears that, providing the current rules stay in place, ships that have not been sailing out of a U.S. port *already* (post restart) will be subject to the 14 day rule.  With that in mind, it's not just Summit.  For example, other ships who haven't seen the U.S. since the restart also have their first future Florida based trips planned for later.  Those cruises are also at risk.  Summit was just the first one that this ruling impacts.

[Nymich]

18 minutes ago, kearney said:

I am confused... any ship sailing out of US ports is entering international waters... So will this impact all ships sailing? I know Summit has been out of the US for months... but I don't understand the difference between sailing from Miami to St Maarten and other Caribbean ports... and sailing out of St Maarten to these same ports and then to Miami after a few months vs a week or so.  Can someone explain why this would only apply to Summit and not all ships.. Honestly it sounds like people are just making things up at this point.

You pose a good question.  The CSO considers any ship that was not originating out of the US subject to the 14 day rule.  It is going to impact other lines.  I know one line that even changed their TA arrival date past November 1 to Fort Lauderdale in hopes CSO will be dropped and eliminate this rule.  If they run the TA the first 2 cruises out of Lauderdale will get cancelled.  (1 of them mine 😞)

Edited August 11, 2021 by Nymich

[kearney]

1 minute ago, canderson said:

It appears that, providing the current rules stay in place, ships that have not been sailing out of a U.S. port *already* (post restart) will be subject to the 14 day rule.  With that in mind, it's not just Summit.  For example, other ships who haven't seen the U.S. since the restart also have their first future Florida based trips planned for later.  Those cruises are also at risk.  Summit was just the first one that this ruling impacts.

Thanks... I am just confused by how sailing around the Caribbean out of St Maarten is riskier than sailing ..say...out of Miami etc (eg Edge) to the same ports...especially if all the crew are vaccinated and apparently covid on surfaces hasn't been the issue....  I am just trying to get the logic of this... 

So I assume this just applies to ships repositioning to the US.... 

[kearney]

Just now, Nymich said:

You pose a good question.  The CSO considers any ship that was not originating out of the US subject to the 14 day rule.  It is going to impact other lines.  I know one line that even changed their TA arrival date past November 1 to Fort Lauderdale in hopes CSO will be dropped and eliminate this rule.  If they run the TA the first 2 cruises out of Lauderdale will get cancelled.  

But isn't the (Florida/CDC) injunction in place concerning the CSO? 

[REEtired]

1 hour ago, PBTravelBug said:

I just got off the phone with my TA.

I re-booked my Summit cruise - I may just be kicking the can down the road.

A heads up to all who may do the same...at first Celebrity wanted to charge the difference between my 9/2 fare and the new sailing (about $100 pp). Please keep your emailed notification from Celebrity on hand. We directly quoted the letter and then Celebrity said - ok we can do that. Now re-booked same cabin grade etc..

If the refund option was the choice - it can take up to 90 days for the refund to show and there is nothing the TA can do to expedite the refund.

 

Yes got same email this morning. Contacted X to rebook for September 25.  X mentioned possibly additional cost. Read from the email I received and talked to resolutions desk. They canceled flights previously booked thru flights by celebrity and rebooked new flights. Still waiting for email confirmation from X for rebooked flights. Then tonight see a $370 additional charge on our credit card. Not happy. I will calm down and call X in the morning.  Ugh! 😡

[Nymich]

1 minute ago, kearney said:

But isn't the (Florida/CDC) injunction in place concerning the CSO? 

The lines are trying to follow CDC and thus CSO.  Wisely they don't want to poke the Bear imo

[Nymich]

2 minutes ago, REEtired said:

Yes got same email this morning. Contacted X to rebook for September 25.  X mentioned possibly additional cost. Read from the email I received and talked to resolutions desk. They canceled flights previously booked thru flights by celebrity and rebooked new flights. Still waiting for email confirmation from X for rebooked flights. Then tonight see a $370 additional charge on our credit card. Not happy. I will calm down and call X in the morning.  Ugh! 😡

Wow that's bad......

[Jeremiah1212]

23 minutes ago, kearney said:

I am confused... any ship sailing out of US ports is entering international waters... So will this impact all ships sailing? I know Summit has been out of the US for months... but I don't understand the difference between sailing from Miami to St Maarten and other Caribbean ports... and sailing out of St Maarten to these same ports and then to Miami after a few months vs a week or so.  Can someone explain why this would only apply to Summit and not all ships.. Honestly it sounds like people are just making things up at this point.

 

The wording is terrible. It should be any ship homeporting internationally has to quarantine for 14 days before being allowed to embark from US ports. Granted I didn't look too terribly hard, but I really cannot find many sailings that this would apply to.

 

Among the major cruiselines, Apex is about the only October arrival TA out there. Everyone else arrives in November when presumably the CSO is gone. Unless I overlooked one, I don't see any repo cruises either.  

Edited August 11, 2021 by Jeremiah1212

[Nymich]

1 minute ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

The wording is terrible. It should be any ship homeporting internationally has to quarantine for 14 days before being allowed to embark from US ports. Granted I didn't look too terribly hard, but I really cannot find many sailings that this would apply to.

 

Among the major cruiselines, Apex is about the only October arrival TA out there. Everyone else arrives in November when presumably the CSO is gone. 

Yep they adjusted to November but if CSO stands problem is still there.  As someone mentioned this just hit Summit first.

[canderson]

8 minutes ago, kearney said:

But isn't the (Florida/CDC) injunction in place concerning the CSO? 

Only for NCL and their brands.  Don't know if NCL have any ships using non-US home ports since the restart that had planned to head this way, anyway.

[wrk2cruise]

1 minute ago, canderson said:

Only for NCL and their brands.  Don't know if NCL have any ships using non-US home ports since the restart that had planned to head this way, anyway.

 

I think that's for the NCL suit on vaccine passports.   FL vs the CDC the CSO is recommendation only for all sailings from FL.

[Nymich]

Just now, canderson said:

Only for NCL and their brands.  Don't know if NCL have any ships using non-US home ports since the restart that had planned to head this way, anyway.

The NCL suit is not related to the Florida opt out of the CSO.  The NCL suit is related to vaccine %

[Turtles06]

14 minutes ago, kearney said:

But isn't the (Florida/CDC) injunction in place concerning the CSO? 

 

3 minutes ago, canderson said:

Only for NCL and their brands.  Don't know if NCL have any ships using non-US home ports since the restart that had planned to head this way, anyway.

@kearney yes. Only in Florida, but cruise lines, including Celebrity, are complying voluntarily with the CDC’s CSO. 
 

@canderson you are thinking of a different lawsuit, the one that NCL brought against Florida to challenge the state law prohibiting businesses from requiring patrons to provide proof of vaccination 

[nocl]

33 minutes ago, kearney said:

Thanks... I am just confused by how sailing around the Caribbean out of St Maarten is riskier than sailing ..say...out of Miami etc (eg Edge) to the same ports...especially if all the crew are vaccinated and apparently covid on surfaces hasn't been the issue....  I am just trying to get the logic of this... 

So I assume this just applies to ships repositioning to the US.... 

Ships located outside of the US do not have to report health information to the US, they are not subject  to US inspections.  Once they enter US waters they become subject to those requirements. The timelines for reporting and other factors related to cruising out of the US is part of the CDC safe cruise documents.

 

The funny thing is the rules for ships coming into US waters after a period outside of the US for inspection, health  reporting and quarantine (including time frames) have been in places for months.

 

Does not make sense that Celebrity did not catch this before now.  

 

The only excuse is that COVID numbers in the US had dropped significantly so there was the possibility that the requirements could change before those cruises.  Now with the Delta Spike in cases the odds of the rules being removed or relaxed by then is much lower.  That might be why they have made the decision now.

Edited August 11, 2021 by nocl