Engine problems on the Quantum of the Seas

[chengkp75]

On 6/30/2022 at 4:23 PM, Ben Nicholls said:

I had an idea what could be the reason for this. From what I hear only the 1st 3 Aug sailings have received this change. None in July or none after. I was thinking what engine wise could be a reason. What if it's an engine repair? They have an issue that needs to be fixed soon, but the engine is running now. When the parts arrive they need to take the engine offline for 3 weeks to perform the repair. That would explain how they could know it was only those 3 sailings. It is because they are scheduling the work for then. 

 

No facts to back this up, it just fits what we know.

This is most likely the problem.  All of the engines (this is not an azipod problem), are completely overhauled every 12,000 running hours (about 1.5-2 years).  These overhauls take about 3-4 weeks to complete.  These overhauls are undertaken while in service, and generally passengers have no idea that one engine is out of service for a month, as the itineraries are formulated allowing for the one engine being out of service.  Many ships can make full speed even with one generator out of service, it depends on the number of generators and their size.  It seems that they didn't set the itineraries properly in the first place.

[deliver42]

I guess you didn't know that everything is a conspiricy now. Royal is covering up somethin more serious. LOL.

[Ben Nicholls]

Just got this email. It has more details on the engine troubles. Plus we are now getting a full day OBC!

 

 

ABOUT YOUR UPCOMING TRAVELS

Dear Guest, We wanted to provide additional details about Quantum of the Seas’ August 15th, 2022 adjusted itinerary and update you on the speed limitations caused by a technical issue with one of the ship’s engines. Quantum has four engines. One requires some repair and there’s a delay in receiving the parts needed. Additionally, another engine is scheduled for routine maintenance soon, which means we’ll have to reduce our overall speed during these sailings. While we’re doing everything we can to expedite this, the global supply chain situation that we’re all experiencing is further impacting the delay. Safety is always our top priority. Our ships can safely sail in these kinds of situations, just at reduced speeds. We’ve been working tirelessly to find a way to visit Endicott Arm & Dawes Glacier for your sailing, but this would result in drastically reduced port times. And given that there’s always a risk of missing the Glacier due to weather, it’s best to go with the surer option of keeping better times in port. The decision to modify our itinerary wasn’t taken lightly. We’ve done everything possible to minimize the impact to your time with us and are sorry for the inconvenience. To help make up for these changes, we’ve increased the compensation offered. You’ll now receive one full day of your cruise fare paid, per person, as an Onboard Credit. These credits can be used anywhere onboard. And if at the end of the cruise you have a remaining amount left over, it will be refunded to your card on file. While we can’t wait to set sail with you, we understand this was an unexpected change. Should you no longer wish to sail or want to change your sail date, please contact your Travel Advisor or give us a call at 1 866 562 7625 by July 17th, 2022. You’ll receive a full refund of any paid portion of your cruise to the original form of payment, including non-refundable deposits and any pre-paid amenities, within 14 business days or we can help move your funds towards a new sailing. Again, we apologize for these changes and appreciate your understanding. We look forward to welcoming you onboard Quantum of the Seas! Sincerely, Aurora Yera-Rodriguez AVP | Guest Experience Royal Caribbean International

[CruiseWendy]

15 minutes ago, Ben Nicholls said:

Just got this email. It has more details on the engine troubles. Plus we are now getting a full day OBC!

 

 

ABOUT YOUR UPCOMING TRAVELS

Dear Guest, We wanted to provide additional details about Quantum of the Seas’ August 15th, 2022 adjusted itinerary and update you on the speed limitations caused by a technical issue with one of the ship’s engines. Quantum has four engines. One requires some repair and there’s a delay in receiving the parts needed. Additionally, another engine is scheduled for routine maintenance soon, which means we’ll have to reduce our overall speed during these sailings. While we’re doing everything we can to expedite this, the global supply chain situation that we’re all experiencing is further impacting the delay. Safety is always our top priority. Our ships can safely sail in these kinds of situations, just at reduced speeds. We’ve been working tirelessly to find a way to visit Endicott Arm & Dawes Glacier for your sailing, but this would result in drastically reduced port times. And given that there’s always a risk of missing the Glacier due to weather, it’s best to go with the surer option of keeping better times in port. The decision to modify our itinerary wasn’t taken lightly. We’ve done everything possible to minimize the impact to your time with us and are sorry for the inconvenience. To help make up for these changes, we’ve increased the compensation offered. You’ll now receive one full day of your cruise fare paid, per person, as an Onboard Credit. These credits can be used anywhere onboard. And if at the end of the cruise you have a remaining amount left over, it will be refunded to your card on file. While we can’t wait to set sail with you, we understand this was an unexpected change. Should you no longer wish to sail or want to change your sail date, please contact your Travel Advisor or give us a call at 1 866 562 7625 by July 17th, 2022. You’ll receive a full refund of any paid portion of your cruise to the original form of payment, including non-refundable deposits and any pre-paid amenities, within 14 business days or we can help move your funds towards a new sailing. Again, we apologize for these changes and appreciate your understanding. We look forward to welcoming you onboard Quantum of the Seas! Sincerely, Aurora Yera-Rodriguez AVP | Guest Experience Royal Caribbean International

This helps take the sting out of all the missed ports and changes to the itinerary. We are on this cruise as well and were just saying the other day we wouldn't have upgraded to the suite we had for the cost of the cruise we are getting now. Still excited to go...!

[chengkp75]

38 minutes ago, Ben Nicholls said:

Quantum has four engines. One requires some repair and there’s a delay in receiving the parts needed. Additionally, another engine is scheduled for routine maintenance soon, which means we’ll have to reduce our overall speed during these sailings.

This is the problem I've seen with the ships that have 4 large engines.  If one is down for overhaul, and another has a failure, the speed is massively affected.  Those ships with 5 or 6 smaller engines give better flexibility for routine maintenance.

[Italy52]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:09 PM, jlshouston said:

We booked the Aug 22 sailing of Quantum and I haven't gotten any emails. I did browse the shore excursions 2 weeks ago and there weren't many left with availability. First time Alaskan cruise so I didn't realize I had to start early on on shore excursions, sometimes I wait until the day we board to decide if we are doing an excursion so I may be in trouble seeing a whale or a bear or an iceberg...

We are also on the August 22nd sailing and have not received a change notification.  Seems weird why some people are getting notification and some are not.

[BirdTravels]

19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is the problem I've seen with the ships that have 4 large engines.  If one is down for overhaul, and another has a failure, the speed is massively affected.  Those ships with 5 or 6 smaller engines give better flexibility for routine maintenance.

So,,, how does that make sense? If you have an engine down for repair (potentially the fire in the engine space a few weeks ago), why would you take a second engine offline for routine maintenance at the same time? One would assume that there is a little wiggle room in the overhaul schedule, even if you had preplaned a whole "boat load" of additional mechanics onboard to preform the overhaul.  

[neverbeenhere]

Now I’m not a scientist, but if the ship is using Quantum Mechanics shouldn’t of it been fixed already? 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

So,,, how does that make sense? If you have an engine down for repair (potentially the fire in the engine space a few weeks ago), why would you take a second engine offline for routine maintenance at the same time? One would assume that there is a little wiggle room in the overhaul schedule, even if you had preplaned a whole "boat load" of additional mechanics onboard to preform the overhaul.  

Well, if the manufacturer's tech reps are booked solid for a year, which they likely are, due to deferred maintenance during the shutdown, you might have no choice.  Also, while there is some grace period in maintenance, you can't do this indefinitely, without affecting your certificate of class, particularly for a major maintenance like a total overhaul (most likely a couple of months, if their planned maintenance system is typical, but they may have already deferred this overhaul during the shutdown).  Typically, there is one or two manufacturer's reps and 4-6 contract machinists brought on for an overhaul.  And, there is no guarantee when the parts for the engine under repair will show up.

[CoffeeGoddess]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, if the manufacturer's tech reps are booked solid for a year, which they likely are, due to deferred maintenance during the shutdown, you might have no choice.  Also, while there is some grace period in maintenance, you can't do this indefinitely, without affecting your certificate of class, particularly for a major maintenance like a total overhaul (most likely a couple of months, if their planned maintenance system is typical, but they may have already deferred this overhaul during the shutdown).  Typically, there is one or two manufacturer's reps and 4-6 contract machinists brought on for an overhaul.  And, there is no guarantee when the parts for the engine under repair will show up.

 

Thank you for chiming in here. I'm on the 15th sailing and was wondering about this and hoping for you to post. Sounds like it is something they need to address so with the compensation upped for the cruise I'm good with missing Dawes since, as Bird posted, we're probably not going to get too close toit anyways.

[sowhat]

32 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, if the manufacturer's tech reps are booked solid for a year, which they likely are, due to deferred maintenance during the shutdown, you might have no choice.  Also, while there is some grace period in maintenance, you can't do this indefinitely, without affecting your certificate of class, particularly for a major maintenance like a total overhaul (most likely a couple of months, if their planned maintenance system is typical, but they may have already deferred this overhaul during the shutdown).  Typically, there is one or two manufacturer's reps and 4-6 contract machinists brought on for an overhaul.  And, there is no guarantee when the parts for the engine under repair will show up.

So one engine out  of  commission  due to  unforseen  technical  incident.                   One engine going  to shut down  for maintenance .                Thats   50 %  of power excluding emergency  generating power. Is  it safe to sail in this condition

[smokeybandit]

So did the fact that this is Alaska impact the decision to carry on and not cancel cruises?

Surely if you're at half power in say Jamaica and there's a medical emergency you wouldn't want to be stuck at 10 knots.

[chengkp75]

16 minutes ago, sowhat said:

So one engine out  of  commission  due to  unforseen  technical  incident.                   One engine going  to shut down  for maintenance .                Thats   50 %  of power excluding emergency  generating power. Is  it safe to sail in this condition
 

Yes.  You could still have another engine fail and still have power.  And, that's 50% of generating power, but for propulsion, that would still be around 65-70% of full speed.

7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

So did the fact that this is Alaska impact the decision to carry on and not cancel cruises?

Surely if you're at half power in say Jamaica and there's a medical emergency you wouldn't want to be stuck at 10 knots.

Power to speed ratio is exponential, so 50% power results in about 65-70% ship speed, so you're still talking about 15 knots.  And, if there was a medical emergency near Jamaica, the JDF Coast Guard would take care of search and rescue, either helicopter or vessel.

[sowhat]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes.  You could still have another engine fail and still have power.  And, that's 50% of generating power, but for propulsion, that would still be around 65-70% of full speed.

Power to speed ratio is exponential, so 50% power results in about 65-70% ship speed, so you're still talking about 15 knots.  And, if there was a medical emergency near Jamaica, the JDF Coast Guard would take care of search and rescue, either helicopter or vessel.

But will they have to  reduce  or switch off  non  propulsion  equipment  like the hotel  side if they 3rd engine generator malfunction

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, sowhat said:

But will they have to  reduce  or switch off  non  propulsion  equipment  like the hotel  side if they 3rd engine generator malfunction

Not necessarily.  She also has two very small generators (not the emergency generator) rated at 5Mw total, or about 70% of the total hotel load, used for just these situations, or where an in port load is very low due to low temperatures (minimum AC).  So, even if the remaining main generator is one of the two smaller ones (14.4Mw), they could have full hotel capacity (especially in Alaska), and still make 10 or 11 knots.

[sowhat]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Not necessarily.  She also has two very small generators (not the emergency generator) rated at 5Mw total, or about 70% of the total hotel load, used for just these situations, or where an in port load is very low due to low temperatures (minimum AC).  So, even if the remaining main generator is one of the two smaller ones (14.4Mw), they could have full hotel capacity (especially in Alaska), and still make 10 or 11 knots.

We were  on board Splendour of the Seas  when a main tranformer exploded
We  drifted for 4 hours with  no  propulsion  and only emergency  power, no water, no toilets,  no AC and  limited emergency lighting
They did  a temporary  repair and sailed  very slowly  to the first available  port

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, sowhat said:

We were  on board Splendour of the Seas  when a main tranformer exploded
We  drifted for 4 hours with  no  propulsion  and only emergency  power, no water, no toilets,  no AC and  limited emergency lighting
They did  a temporary  repair and sailed  very slowly  to the first available  port
 

Any ship can experience a temporary loss of power, and the number of generators available would have nothing to do with that.  If a transformer shorted, even if all 5 of Splendor's engines were online at that time, they would all have tripped off.  Most cruise ships have redundancy in the electrical distribution system, such that in Splendor's case, 2 engines are in one engine room, and 3 are in another.  Each engine room feeds a separate distribution system, which can supply everything onboard.  The two systems are normally joined at one point, but this can be opened if there is a problem like a shorted transformer in one system, and still provide power to all hotel functions and half power to propulsion.  But, as I say, since everything is interconnected and common, a failure of the distribution system can happen regardless of how many generators are operating at the time.

[chengkp75]

Another thing to consider is that the USCG has to be informed of any reduction in redundancy in propulsion (like engines being out of service,  and they have final say in whether the ship sails or not. 

[Oceansaway17]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Another thing to consider is that the USCG has to be informed of any reduction in redundancy in propulsion (like engines being out of service,  and they have final say in whether the ship sails or not. 

can you give an example of when this might happen or what region of travel the USCG would do this?

Fascinating that there is a minimum speed and propulsion requirements which I suppose is a good thing.  Do other parts of the world have this requirement as well?

[Jimbo]

How long before Royal is more transparent and releases what the real problem is and when and if it will be fixed again so the ship is under 100% power?

[Oceansaway17]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

How long before Royal is more transparent and releases what the real problem is and when and if it will be fixed again so the ship is under 100% power?

yea a while they are at it, be transparent and tell us why some shows were not being performed.

A lot of us a couple weeks ago were most pissed not to see Mamma Mia.

I know engine issues is more important, just wanted to add to the conversation.  Now I hear drink packages not getting the nice tumblers are they are low on stock.   perhaps a list is starting.  

still engine issues is of concern since I am on the Aug 29th trip.  

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, Oceansaway17 said:

can you give an example of when this might happen or what region of travel the USCG would do this?

Fascinating that there is a minimum speed and propulsion requirements which I suppose is a good thing.  Do other parts of the world have this requirement as well?

As "Port State Control" agency in the US, the USCG has the final decision whether any ship sails from a US port, anywhere in the country.  There is really not a minimum speed requirement, but there is a statutory requirement for redundanc'y in steering, and power generation.  The two small Cat generators that Quantum has, provides the redundancy of power generation if only one main generator is available, so the ship won't be without power.  If one of the two azipods is out of service, the USCG will require a tug escort from the sea buoy to the dock, since the azipods provide steering as well as propulsion.  You don't need redundancy in propulsion, since 95% of the ships on the oceans have only one engine connected directly to one propeller, and if that goes out, you've lost propulsion.  All countries are equal in their authority as "Port State Control", but each nation determines how they enforce that authority.  Some countries are as strict about losing an azipod as the US, but most aren't.

[Oceansaway17]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

As "Port State Control" agency in the US, the USCG has the final decision whether any ship sails from a US port, anywhere in the country.  There is really not a minimum speed requirement, but there is a statutory requirement for redundanc'y in steering, and power generation.  The two small Cat generators that Quantum has, provides the redundancy of power generation if only one main 

which canal is more strict in your opinion, Panama or Suez?

 

thanks for your comments.  

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, Oceansaway17 said:

yea a while they are at it, be transparent and tell us why some shows were not being performed.

A lot of us a couple weeks ago were most pissed not to see Mamma Mia.

I know engine issues is more important, just wanted to add to the conversation.  Now I hear drink packages not getting the nice tumblers are they are low on stock.   perhaps a list is starting.  

still engine issues is of concern since I am on the Aug 29th trip.  

Don't know about where you live, but go to any grocery store, Target or Walmart in my area, and you are greeted by either empty shelves or a single row of items hiding empty space behind them.  Welcome to the post-Covid world.

[Oceansaway17]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

Don't know about where you live, but go to any grocery store, Target or Walmart in my area, and you are greeted by either empty shelves or a single row of items hiding empty space behind them.  Welcome to the post-Covid world.

yea but at least they most of the time apologize with a sign or an explanation