Are Cruise lines killing cruising ?

[michael2467]

What is wrong with the cruise industry ?,just look at some of the comments made by recent customers-ports being missed from itineries,poor food,lack of service (before,during and after the cruise),just what has happened to customer service ?

Cruise lines are keen to take your money,but when they are unable to supply what you have paid for,make it almost impossible to either contact them,or to obtain a refund.

They are still producing glossy brochures,and agents still promote their cruises,but ignore all of this-just speak to people who have sailed-you may obtain a different version.

When will the Cruise industry wake up-its easier to lose customers than get new ones.

Old standards are gone,regular cruisers are now saying they will not sail again.

Has any cruise company the guts to stand up,and keep their promises about what you will receive ?

I challenge the CEO's of some cruise lines to go on one of their sailings-this might wake them up.

Take action now before you kill the industry completely.

[CruiserBruce]

Do you understand any of the effects of the pandemic on cruise line operations? They shut down for an extended time,  had to borrow extensively to stay in business, and had costs even though the ships weren't sailing, with NO revenues. They are required to keep a number of cabins available to quarantine Covid patients. They aren't sailing full due to the public's trepidations about Covid, and they need to be sailing about 90% of capacity to break even. Costs are going up. They are losing money every day right now, and have been for over 2 years.

 

With all due respect, I don't think you understand the economics of cruising. They are balancing trying to stay in business, and get people back into the cruising mood, given Covid, and cutting their losses. The cruise lines are also having problems returning staff to pre-Covid levels.

 

By the way, welcome to Cruise Critic.

[puppycanducruise]

First post.  Welcome to Cruise Critic.

[wcook]

Nah. Cruising is awesome. 

[LocoLoco1]

31 minutes ago, wcook said:

Nah. Cruising is awesome. 

Exactly. Once I actually BOARD a cruiseship it’s good. Getting to that point is the problem. 

[iancal]

No idea.  This is the longest period we have gone without a cruise, or even booking a cruise.  We have started international land travel though.

 

Prior to covid we were becoming disenchanted with some of the mass market cruise lines.  Our impression over the past number of years was is threefold.  

 

First would be the quality has been reduced across the board.

 

Second would be that all  the mass market lines seem to be headed towards the lowest common denominator.

 

Third would be the value proposition. Seems to us value has slipped to the point where we believe the truly premium lines may offer a  better value and on board experience based on our preferences.   

 

 We have zero loyalty to any cruise line.  We view changing up vendors as an opportunity rather than an emotional experience.  I believe that post covid there will be a fair amount of change on all cruise lines.

Edited August 9, 2022 by iancal

[jsn55]

4 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Do you understand any of the effects of the pandemic on cruise line operations? They shut down for an extended time,  had to borrow extensively to stay in business, and had costs even though the ships weren't sailing, with NO revenues. They are required to keep a number of cabins available to quarantine Covid patients. They aren't sailing full due to the public's trepidations about Covid, and they need to be sailing about 90% of capacity to break even. Costs are going up. They are losing money every day right now, and have been for over 2 years.

 

With all due respect, I don't think you understand the economics of cruising. They are balancing trying to stay in business, and get people back into the cruising mood, given Covid, and cutting their losses. The cruise lines are also having problems returning staff to pre-Covid levels.

 

By the way, welcome to Cruise Critic.

Oh so true!  I am always astonished at the number of travellers who don't seem to grasp the results of more than 2 years of virus hysteria. Somehow they think the whole travel industry has magically healed itself overnight. The complaints are quite a revelation into what a customer service department has to put up with ... on a gynormous scale these days.  Customer service in travel is a huge problem all the way around ... but people to staff the CS department do not grow on trees, they're hard to find and harder to train.  I do think the travel providers could try harder, I'm sitting on thousands of dollars of first-class airline credits... all three airlines involved insist that I call to straighten out whatever the problems are preventing me from rebooking these credits.  But nobody will answer the phone.  IT departments are obviously under-staffed as well.  It's no wonder travellers are so angry and unhappy.  I finally got one airline to cooperate, and will have to work a little harder on the other two.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Do you understand any of the effects of the pandemic on cruise line operations? They shut down for an extended time,  had to borrow extensively to stay in business, and had costs even though the ships weren't sailing, with NO revenues. They are required to keep a number of cabins available to quarantine Covid patients. They aren't sailing full due to the public's trepidations about Covid, and they need to be sailing about 90% of capacity to break even. Costs are going up. They are losing money every day right now, and have been for over 2 years.

 

With all due respect, I don't think you understand the economics of cruising. They are balancing trying to stay in business, and get people back into the cruising mood, given Covid, and cutting their losses. The cruise lines are also having problems returning staff to pre-Covid levels.

 

By the way, welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

Everything you say does not change that service has declined significantly*.   I'm hoping that as the cruise lines struggle to get back up to speed, service will come back to pre-covid levels.   My fear is that the current situation will become the new norm.    

 

* Excluding that certain premium line of course. 

[CruiserBruce]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Everything you say does not change that service has declined significantly*.   I'm hoping that as the cruise lines struggle to get back up to speed, service will come back to pre-covid levels.   My fear is that the current situation will become the new norm.    

 

* Excluding that certain premium line of course. 

And why do you think it has declined? Nothing to do with losing money hand over foot and having to cut costs, I suppose.

[Aquahound]

OP - Care to explain what happened to you that predicated this post?

[ldubs]

5 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

And why do you think it has declined? Nothing to do with losing money hand over foot and having to cut costs, I suppose.

 

Knowing why it has declined does not change that it has declined.   For some the experience is no longer attractive.  I previously expressed my concern that the current service levels would become the new normal.   It does not matter to me if there are valid reasons. If I no longer enjoy the experience I will spend my travel dollars elsewhere.      

[iancal]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

Knowing why it has declined does not change that it has declined.   For some the experience is no longer attractive.  I previously expressed my concern that the current service levels would become the new normal.   It does not matter to me if there are valid reasons. If I no longer enjoy the experience I will spend my travel dollars elsewhere.      

....and we are starting to spend our money elsewhere.

 

Cruising is just one of several good travel options that we consider.  Certainly not 'the be all and the end all'.

 

 If we perceive that the value is no longer present based on our preferences we will simply opt for some other travel product.

[Keksie]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

Knowing why it has declined does not change that it has declined.   For some the experience is no longer attractive.  I previously expressed my concern that the current service levels would become the new normal.   It does not matter to me if there are valid reasons. If I no longer enjoy the experience I will spend my travel dollars elsewhere.      

Plus add in the hoops that the cruise lines expect the passengers to jump through just to get on the ship.  It makes other vacation options much more attractive.  Previous to the pandemic there were a few things that annoyed me about cruising but I was willing to overlook them because we enjoyed the cruise vacation.  Now, hearing about the food, short staff, venues closed, etc. a cruise is just not something I want to pay for until things change.

[navybankerteacher]

11 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Knowing why it has declined does not change that it has declined.   For some the experience is no longer attractive.  I previously expressed my concern that the current service levels would become the new normal.   It does not matter to me if there are valid reasons. If I no longer enjoy the experience I will spend my travel dollars elsewhere.      

Agreed - sadly it is only the fairly highly priced lines which remain attractive - meaning they have to compete with other options for my travel dollars - which are finite.

[ldubs]

12 minutes ago, iancal said:

....and we are starting to spend our money elsewhere.

 

Cruising is just one of several good travel options that we consider.  Certainly not 'the be all and the end all'.

 

 If we perceive that the value is no longer present based on our preferences we will simply opt for some other travel product.

 

Agree.  Our favorite for just the two of us is DYI land trips.  These days most of our cruises involve our family group, which we enjoy immensely.   We have two more cruises (Princess and RCI) booked for later this year.  We will see how it goes.  

[ldubs]

11 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Agreed - sadly it is only the fairly highly priced lines which remain attractive - meaning they have to compete with other options for my travel dollars - which are finite.

 

I think that is very true.    For us, based on the increased cost of those luxury lines,  it is likely we will get more bang for our buck with alternative travel options.  

[Hlitner]

I have little time for the excuse makers :).  Bottom line is that when I pay for a cruise on any line I expect the service/quality that is the norm on that particular line.  When on Seabourn we expect luxury and impeccable quality.  If on HAL I expect the usual mediocre experience (some HAL fans would disagree).  When we go on MSC's Yacht Club I expect amazing service and an upscale level of everything when we are in the Yacht Club enclave.  

 

Now there are folks (Hi Bruce) that would have us just accept that COVID has destroyed the quality of many things.  To that I say "Humbug."  If a product is being sold at normal pricing than I have a right to expect the normal quality.  Otherwise, either cut the price or shut down!  We noticed yesterday that Princess cancelled many upcoming cruises of the Diamond Princess.  Unlike most cruise lines, Princess was very honest when they told the cancelled folks that they are having labor problems (folks no longer want to work) and decided to shut down a ship because of their inability to deliver the proper quality.   Carnival, on the other hand has simply closed some onboard venues, taken away some services, but not cut their prices.  HAL is all over the place with some things being cancelled (often at the last minute) because of lack of staff.  HAL and Princess have both had a big problem in trying to staff their hotel facility (and related food venues) at Denali.  So they have cancelled quite a few cruise/tours with very little notice despite the fact that they knew of their staffing problems for many months.   These days, the customers seem to be an afterthought as segments of the travel/entertainment industry struggle to survive.

 

Hank

[Mike981]

*my $.02 worth*

In our experience, customer service was going down hill well before Covid in many industries, not just travel. Companies were/are figuring out the tipping point of making money with less staff, I should add well trained staff.
Our first cruise was January of 2000 on Celebrity, and there was no comparison to our cruises in 2018 & 2019 to that first cruise. Not just staff, but food. We are not ready to cruise yet, but when we do we will be looking at all options, including not cruising and land travel.

[mnocket]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

No idea.  This is the longest period we have gone without a cruise, or even booking a cruise.  We have started international land travel though.

 

Prior to covid we were becoming disenchanted with some of the mass market cruise lines.  Our impression over the past number of years was is threefold.  

 

First would be the quality has been reduced across the board.

 

Second would be that all  the mass market lines seem to be headed towards the lowest common denominator.

 

Third would be the value proposition. Seems to us value has slipped to the point where we believe the truly premium lines may offer a  better value and on board experience based on our preferences.   

 

 We have zero loyalty to any cruise line.  We view changing up vendors as an opportunity rather than an emotional experience.  I believe that post covid there will be a fair amount of change on all cruise lines.

This perfectly reflects my feelings as well.  Even before the pandemic things were slipping.  The pandemic may have not only accelerated the decline in service & value, but make it the new normal.  Things may never return to what they once were.

 

We have switched to land vacations while waiting for cruising to improve.  I'm afraid the mass market lines may never return to prior standards.  I have booked my first post-pandemic cruise, but I'm trying a luxury line for the first time - and it doesn't sail until Dec '23.  

 

NCL just reported disappointing earnings, so it seems the cruising "rebound" may be kind of a dud.

[wcook]

I’ve been participating in travel forums since the Usenet days. There have always been people saying how everything is going downhill. If that were true, travel would be down in the Mariana Trench. 
 

Things change. People don’t like change. They rush to their keyboard and *****  about it. Nothing wrong with that. Those posts are cathartic to the poster and usually fun to read. But they miss all the little things that change for the better. 
 

For some of you, the negative changes outweigh the good. You may move on to other experiences. Or just stay home and watch Matlock reruns. Enjoy. But the cruising industry as a whole has been growing by leaps and bounds. There’s a reason for that. And that reason isn’t “cruising sucks.”

 

I absolutely believe that the cruise product today is better than it ever has been. I have no desire to go back to paper tickets, cash tip envelopes, set dining times in the one onboard restaurant and napkin folding as entertainment. And I will never, ever return to muster drills wearing a life preserver in the hot sun 🙂
 

 

[Hlitner]

20 minutes ago, wcook said:

I’ve been participating in travel forums since the Usenet days. There have always been people saying how everything is going downhill. If that were true, travel would be down in the Mariana Trench. 
 

Things change. People don’t like change. They rush to their keyboard and *****  about it. Nothing wrong with that. Those posts are cathartic to the poster and usually fun to read. But they miss all the little things that change for the better. 
 

For some of you, the negative changes outweigh the good. You may move on to other experiences. Or just stay home and watch Matlock reruns. Enjoy. But the cruising industry as a whole has been growing by leaps and bounds. There’s a reason for that. And that reason isn’t “cruising sucks.”

 

I absolutely believe that the cruise product today is better than it ever has been. I have no desire to go back to paper tickets, cash tip envelopes, set dining times in the one onboard restaurant and napkin folding as entertainment. And I will never, ever return to muster drills wearing a life preserver in the hot sun 🙂
 

 

Ouch!  We plead guilty to thinking that the mass market cruise experience has gone downhill.   We are another couple who went on Celebrity (in our case it was the early 90s) and thought the line was terrific in terms of cuisine and service.  When we stopped cruising on that line (over 5 years ago) it was because of what we called "the death by a thousand cut-backs" imposed by their new top management.  While it was still a decent cruise line we found other cruise/land options we thought were a better product and value.    

 

I do not get hung up on issues life muster drills (mostly governed by SOLAS regulations), dining times, etc.  Whatever time I dine I expect decent cuisine.  And on most of the mass market lines the quality (and quantity) of cuisine has gone significantly down hill.   But we do not stay home and watch Matlock reruns (I liked Matlock) but resumed our extensive travel schedule over a year ago.  In that time we have taken 4 cruises (3 on Seabourn and 1 Princess) totally 75 days.  We have also managed significant land trips to Mexico and Europe.  But the big change for us, in terms of cruising, is that we are cruising more on high-end luxury lines and less on mass market lines.  We are not totally happy paying the big bucks for the luxury lines,  but find it increasingly difficult to be satisfied with the mediocre (or worse) product being offered by mass market lines.   We will continue to cruise but are now willing to pay more money for better quality....but not more money for lesser quality (which is what has happened with many mass market lines).

 

 

Hank

[wcook]

21 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

And on most of the mass market lines the quality (and quantity) of cuisine has gone significantly down hill. 

Im curious, is it possible that your tastes have improved rather than the food declining? When my wife and I were in college, there was an Italian restaurant in town that was popular for date nights. They served amazing food. We went back during our 10th reunion. Same family running the place, same food. But our frame of reference had changed. Instead of comparing it to the college cafeteria, we were comparing it to a world of fabulous restaurants. And the local Olive Garden wantabee no longer held up. 
 

Or maybe the cruise food and service really have gone downhill. Who knows. And for the record, I enjoy Matlock and Olive Garden, no offense intended. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by wcook

[Cruisercl]

@michael2467 OP, have you ever been on a cruise?

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

If a product is being sold at normal pricing than I have a right to expect the normal quality.

 

Today, however, many products are being sold at a higher price for the same quality, but a reduced quantity,  

 

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

If on HAL I expect the usual mediocre experience (some HAL fans would disagree). 

 

I have had enough HAL experience over the years to agree that the experience is different now than it once was.  But, why?  Cost-cutting?  Yes.  A churn of executives in Seattle who lacked cruising experience?  Yes, in my opinion.  Trying to find their best market for the future?  Yes.  (Let's try that concept.  Well, that didn't work.  Let's try this concept.  Well, that didn't work.  Etc.)  There remains some remnants of my previous HAL experiences.  But, to call my most recent two HAL cruises in 2019 and 2020 mediocre?  No.  

 

1 hour ago, mnocket said:

Things may never return to what they once were.

 

 

Whether we like it or not, they won't.  As another poster said, getting used to change is difficult whether that change is related to travel or any other facet of life such as health.  

 

35 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 We will continue to cruise but are now willing to pay more money for better quality...

 

May I change your statement to fit me?  I would like to continue to cruise and am willing to pay for the best quality possible.  The cruise line makes no difference--if they can meet my expectation for that quality for which I am paying.  

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, wcook said:

Im curious, is it possible that your tastes have improved rather than the food declining? When my wife and I were in college, there was an Italian restaurant in town that was popular for date nights. They served amazing food. We went back during our 10th reunion. Same family running the place, same food. But our frame of reference had changed. Instead of comparing it to the college cafeteria, we were comparing it to a world of fabulous restaurants. And the local Olive Garden wantabee no longer held up. 
 

Or maybe the food and service really have gone downhill. Who knows. And for the record, I enjoy Matlock and Olive Garden, no offense intended. 

ROFL.  When I complement DW for her cooking (she actually makes chef quality meals) she would say my taste is improving.  If I am critical she would probably say my taste is in the pits :).   The problem is even the best cooks cannot do much with declining products   If I had a picture of the cold water lobster tails we used to get on RCCL (before they used RCI) and you would compare them to the warm water tails today you would see a huge difference in size and quality.  It is the same with most beef.  Go on a HAL cruise these days I would almost guarantee that nearly every single lunch in the Lido Buffet would find some kind of chicken.  Years ago HAL would have had bowls of large shrimp on the self service salad bar.  Now, if you go to the salad station they might have teeny weenie shrimp.   Go back far enough and most lines had expansive midnight buffets nearly every night!  Now......?

 

Another big cut-back (on many mass market lines) has been with room service menus.  Hot breakfasts have become very limited on most lines.  I believe Carnival just announced that they no longer have the breakfast menu tags (the ones you would hang on your door).  Now, if folks want room service breakfast, they must call in the morning (and likely have a long wait).   On Celebrity, we used to get excellent afternoon hors d'oevres when we were in Aqua Class.  By the time we stopped cruising with X you were lucky if you got a celery stalk with some cream cheese.   Princess has long made decent dessert souffles in their MDRs.  A few short years ago they changed the ramekins to about half the size!   DW reminds me that the last time we cruised on X, we both ordered the mussels starter.  We got 5 or 6 small mussels in a tasteless broth and about half those mussels were not opened (our waiter said it would be fine to eat the unopened ones).    I could go on and on with examples (we cruise many lines and have long memories for food).  Princess used to have a very popular "Pub Lunch" oh nearly every cruise.  It was served in an alternate lounge, was delicious, and there was plenty of beer from the UK and Ireland.  That has disappeared and replaced by some fish/chips in the Lido Buffet.    

 

So to answer your question, yes, my palette has likely improved over my lifetime, but I do adjust expectations to the cruise line.  So while I expect (and love) the included caviar on Seabourn, I do not expect that on HAL, Princess, or other mass market lines.  I submit that anyone who thinks mass market food is as good as it was 5 years ago has been drinking the Kool Aid!

 

Hank