Silversea Air Screws Up Again

[FlyerTalker]

44 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

Why was DL allowed to market it as “direct”?  Or, was it just a one off due to an unanticipated equipment change?

 

Here are the two definitions:

 

"Non-stop" means a flight from A to B with no stops in between the two cities.

 

"Direct" means a flight from A to B that has no change of flight number.  However, it may have as many stops between A and B as the airline wishes, so long as the flight number remains the same for all segments.  In addition, equipment can change along the way - again, as long as the flight number remains the same.

 

So flying MIA to JFK on a 737 as DLxxx with JFK to TLV as the continuation of DLxxx on a 777 would be perfectly fine as "direct", since there is no change of flight number.

 

Southwest is very guilty of this today, though they usually don't switch aircraft -- just have "direct" flights with multiple segments.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

40 minutes ago, alithecat said:

@ak1004Yes, SS does have contracts with Air Canada. They wanted to route us from Santiago back to my home in San Francisco on Air Canada via Toronto in January. I rejected this.

 

It doesn't matter if SS (or any cruiseline) has a contract with XYZ Airline.  What matters is:

 

Do they have a contract with XYZ Airlines - FOR THE ROUTE DESIRED?

 

Contract air does not cover all flights, routings and dates.  They are specifically laid out in the contract.  So even if AC is contracted for the routes for SCL to YYZ and YYZ to SFO, that doesn't mean that they will:

 

a) Have contract tickets for other AC routes

and/or

b) Have contract tickets for the dates or flights desired.

 

Past contract tickets have little bearing on what will be contractually available for the dates and routes that YOU want to take.

 

 

[Stumblefoot]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

What if I book with bus air now, and when prices are released for 2024, if I see that I can book at similar prices or with points, I remove the air? Any downside to this (except obviously slightly higher deposit)?

That’s a great question, but not one I know the answer to since we never book SS Air. Sorry.

[bubbulz]

7 hours ago, ak1004 said:

and if we do it and don’t like the flights that they offer, or can find better prices on our own, can we get it removed? Both bus air and $1,150 air credit?

That is what I was told.

[CruzinFeraBruzin]

16 hours ago, ak1004 said:

and if we do it and don’t like the flights that they offer, or can find better prices on our own, can we get it removed? Both bus air and $1,150 air credit?

After you book your trip, the confirmation Silversea provides has a cancellation fee schedule that clearly states the specific dates prior to sailing in which you can cancel the whole cruise, cancel just the air, cancel just the hotel, etc.  In the case of cancelling the air, you may do so without penalty up until 91 days prior with no penalty.  Cancelling 90 - 61 days incurs a $150 pp processing fee.  If you wait until 60 days prior, its the processing fee plus 100% of the air package fare.  If you negotiate a flight with the Air Dept that includes paying a deviation fee or upcharge, those fees are non-refundable.  They also mention air supplier charges that may be incurred.

Edited January 29, 2023 by CruzinFeraBruzin

[ak1004]

28 minutes ago, CruzinFeraBruzin said:

After you book your trip, the confirmation Silversea provides has a cancellation fee schedule that clearly states the specific dates prior to sailing in which you can cancel the whole cruise, cancel just the air, cancel just the hotel, etc.  In the case of cancelling the air, you may do so without penalty up until 91 days prior with no penalty.  Cancelling 90 - 61 days incurs a $150 pp processing fee.  If you wait until 60 days prior, its the processing fee plus 100% of the air package fare.  If you negotiate a flight with the Air Dept that includes paying a deviation fee or upcharge, those fees are non-refundable.  They also mention air supplier charges that may be incurred.

Thank you very much, this is what I was looking for!!

 

So just to clarify - the air cancellation schedule applies to both parts of the air, the air credit (economy) and the business class upgrade, correct? So if the cruise price D2D is for example $10,000, air credit $1,000 and business upgrade $4,000, then the initial booking can be for $14,000 and then up to 90 days before the cruise, it can be adjusted to $9,000?

[cruiseej]

36 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

So just to clarify - the air cancellation schedule applies to both parts of the air, the air credit (economy) and the business class upgrade, correct? So if the cruise price D2D is for example $10,000, air credit $1,000 and business upgrade $4,000, then the initial booking can be for $14,000 and then up to 90 days before the cruise, it can be adjusted to $9,000?

 

One thing to clarify is when your flights are booked versus ticketed. A booking is just a reservation, and can be canceled; once the cruise line pays the airline to issue tickets, then it's not refundable. I think SS typically tickets flights about 60 days out, but there may be instances, especially with deviations, where ticketing can occur earlier. 

[CruzinFeraBruzin]

45 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Thank you very much, this is what I was looking for!!

 

So just to clarify - the air cancellation schedule applies to both parts of the air, the air credit (economy) and the business class upgrade, correct? So if the cruise price D2D is for example $10,000, air credit $1,000 and business upgrade $4,000, then the initial booking can be for $14,000 and then up to 90 days before the cruise, it can be adjusted to $9,000?

Yes, if the D2D cruise was priced at $10,000 and you changed your mind to book air yourself, you may do so up to 91 days with no penalty (with the exception of any deviation charges that may have been charged) and they will issue you an air credit to reduce the price of the cruise down and your cruise will be classified as D2D with air credit. Waiting until 91 days to remove the flight arrangements though means you will have already paid for the cruise in full.  I have no idea how long it takes for Silversea to refund your original method of payment for the air credit.

Edited January 29, 2023 by CruzinFeraBruzin

[ak1004]

Just now, CruzinFeraBruzin said:

Yes, if the D2D cruise was priced at $10,000 and you changed your mind to book air yourself, you may do so up to 91 days with no penalty (with the exception of any deviation charges that may have been charged) and they will issue you an air credit to reduce the price of the cruise down and your cruise will be classified as D2D with air credit. Waiting until 91 days to remove the flight arrangements though means you will have already paid for the cruise in full.  I have no idea how long it takes for Silversea to refund your original method of purchase for the air credit.

5 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

 

One thing to clarify is when your flights are booked versus ticketed. A booking is just a reservation, and can be canceled; once the cruise line pays the airline to issue tickets, then it's not refundable. I think SS typically tickets flights about 60 days out, but there may be instances, especially with deviations, where ticketing can occur earlier. 

 

Totally understandable, thank you!

 

For me, the real issue is to see if the air prices for May 2024 are similar to what SS offers. If they are, I probably won't even wait for them to offer flights and book my own. But the big risk of not booking with air now is that prices jump and I will have to pay much more. Sometimes some specific dates have higher prices, especially in points. So the ability to lock the price with SS booking without risk and being able to cancel it without penalty is very attractive to me.

 

Thank you everyone, this was very helpful!!

[CruzinFeraBruzin]

8 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

I think SS typically tickets flights about 60 days out, but there may be instances, especially with deviations, where ticketing can occur earlier.

That's absolutely correct.  When we paid a deviation fee for Silversea to book a non-contract flight, they made it very clear it was non-refundable.  If you are on the fence about whether you want to keep the flight Silversea arranges, only do so with their contract flights where there are no upcharges or deviation fees involved.

[ak1004]

5 minutes ago, CruzinFeraBruzin said:

That's absolutely correct.  When we paid a deviation fee for Silversea to book a non-contract flight, they made it very clear it was non-refundable.  If you are on the fence about whether you want to keep the flight Silversea arranges, only do so with their contract flights where there are no upcharges or deviation fees involved.

But if accept their contract flights but want to fly 2 days earlier, there is still a $150 USD deviation fee, correct?

[CruzinFeraBruzin]

12 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

But if accept their contract flights but want to fly 2 days earlier, there is still a $150 USD deviation fee, correct?

Some on this forum have mentioned they were charged deviation fees for flying in earlier or staying later.  For our cruise last year, we were not charged deviation fees for arriving 2 days prior and staying 2 days post and all flights were contract.  Was our deviation fee waived and we didn't know it?  Not sure.  For our upcoming cruise, we were not happy with the contract flight they proposed for returning home and chose to have them arrange a non-contract flight for which we were charged a deviation fee.   Before we were charged however, we had the option of removing the flights and taking the air credit, but decided not to because even with the deviation fee, it was still cheaper than booking it on our own.

 

Its always best to work directly with your TA or Silversea Rep to flesh out the details regarding your particular situation regarding flights, confirm whether there are any deviation fees involved and go from there.   

[bubbulz]

12 minutes ago, CruzinFeraBruzin said:

Some on this forum have mentioned they were charged deviation fees for flying in earlier or staying later.  For our cruise last year, we were not charged deviation fees for arriving 2 days prior and staying 2 days post and all flights were contract.  Was our deviation fee waived and we didn't know it?  Not sure.  For our upcoming cruise, we were not happy with the contract flight they proposed for returning home and chose to have them arrange a non-contract flight for which we were charged a deviation fee.   Before we were charged however, we had the option of removing the flights and taking the air credit, but decided not to because even with the deviation fee, it was still cheaper than booking it on our own.

 

Its always best to work directly with your TA or Silversea Rep to flesh out the details regarding your particular situation regarding flights, confirm whether there are any deviation fees involved and go from there.   

In your first example, did you have SS book your extra hotel nights? I was told that if I added extra days, but had them book the hotel that the deviation fee was waived. I also recall reading that on their website.

[CruzinFeraBruzin]

36 minutes ago, bubbulz said:

In your first example, did you have SS book your extra hotel nights? I was told that if I added extra days, but had them book the hotel that the deviation fee was waived. I also recall reading that on their website.

Yes, we stayed at SS hotels pre and post cruise.  Thanks for pointing this out - I was not aware this was why we didn't pay a deviation fee last year.  We are staying at a SS hotels once again for our upcoming trip, but the deviation fee we are being charged is strictly for taking a non-contract flight.

[MBP&O2/O]

We always used to fly in early and were charged a deviation fee, but our PCC used to reimburse us the same amount in lieu of no transfers. This PCC, Stefan, has sadly left SS and our new PCC is nowhere near as knowledgable, efficient,  or accommodating .... to the point where I will not deal with said person.

 

[dougburns]

Being a pilot all I need is an isle seat and a bit of extra leg room for my bad back and artificial hips. To me that's an upgrade from the terrible seats I had in the back of the bus. And, I am in Premium Economy on 3 of the four flights. At 88 I can fall asleep most anywhere and at any time!

[les37b]

17 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Here are the two definitions:

 

"Non-stop" means a flight from A to B with no stops in between the two cities.

 

"Direct" means a flight from A to B that has no change of flight number.  However, it may have as many stops between A and B as the airline wishes, so long as the flight number remains the same for all segments.  In addition, equipment can change along the way - again, as long as the flight number remains the same.

I can remember my first few flights to Miami in the early 1980 on Freddy Lakers Skytrain that was direct from Gatwick but with a fuel stop in Bangor Maine. Brings back fond memories with exchange rates at the time hitting $2.5 to £1 .. I could do with that now! lol

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, dougburns said:

At 88 I can fall asleep most anywhere and at any time!

As a young whipper snapper in my 50s now, I am more excited than I probably should be at reading this.

[Gourmet Gal]

21 hours ago, Port Power said:

I find the mention of “having” to pay the deviation fee confusing.  I thought a deviation fee would only be charged if you want to change the flights that are set out for you?  Posts here seem to imply this fee is paid up front, apparently for no reason.  Can anyone explain, please?

There is always a reason beginning with the originating airport, preferring non-stop flights, requesting certain flights or airlines.  Quite often you still come out ahead compared to booking it yourself but lately the hassle has outweighed the cost savings for us.  

[Lois R]

Good afternoon, thank you all for the help. I decided to keep the Austrian Air Flight.  Spoke with SS a bit ago and from what you all said, I am going to give them a try.  Fortunately for me, I am able to sleep on the long haul portion and from what ya'll said, their Business Class is pretty nice🙂

 

My flight from Athens leaves at 1:30pm and I have a 1 hour 40 minute layover in Vienna.  I get into JFK at 8pm.  I never mentioned this earlier but to make a long story short, Jacksonville is not a gateway city and the price for them to get me home was more than I would pay on my own. So I am flying home from JFK on my own dime. That deviation fee is way more than 150.00😮.

[QueSeraSera]

On 1/29/2023 at 10:27 AM, cruiseej said:

I think SS typically tickets flights about 60 days out,

Thank you, this is useful information as we try to understand where we stand regarding a D2D July European cruise this year.

[Lois R]

On 1/29/2023 at 10:27 AM, cruiseej said:

 

One thing to clarify is when your flights are booked versus ticketed. A booking is just a reservation, and can be canceled; once the cruise line pays the airline to issue tickets, then it's not refundable. I think SS typically tickets flights about 60 days out, but there may be instances, especially with deviations, where ticketing can occur earlier. 

You are correct. It is normally 60 days out. 

 

Congrats on the win yesterday🙂 I heard someone say it is the "Andy Reid Bowl"😃 LOL....Andy playing his former team.

[cruiseej]

13 hours ago, Lois R said:

Congrats on the win yesterday🙂 I heard someone say it is the "Andy Reid Bowl"😃 LOL....Andy playing his former team.

 

They're calling it the "Kelce Bowl", for the Eagles' Jason and his younger brother, the Chiefs' Travis. Not only are they the first brothers to play against each other in a Super Bowl, but both are starters and likely future Hall of Fame inductees. I saw an interview with the parents yesterday; Mom will wear a sewn together jersey which is half Eagles/half Chiefs, while dad will wear a University of Cincinnati jersey (where both brothers played) with one's number on the front and the other's on the back. Expect the TV cameras to show Mom & Dad in the stands at least a few dozen times!

[Stumblefoot]

2 hours ago, cruiseej said:

Mom will wear a sewn together jersey which is half Eagles/half Chiefs…

Here she is.

[A Tucson Guy]

Here is a case where it may seem like SS Air screwed up, but maybe not. We are using SS Air for Bus. Air from Tucson to Venice and then Florence to Tucson this August for the Nova. When SS Air first booked the flights, we had Florence back home connecting in Heathrow (uggh!!) with a 2 hour layover and going from Terminal 3 to Terminal 5. This seemed just fine. I checked on the British Airways website for my trip a couple of weeks later and suddenly the Heathrow to Dallas flight got changed and now we have a 40 minute connection- that ain't going to work. I have to assume that SS Air was not looking at the new changed flight times. I contacted my TA and his comment was, "Since SS booked the flights, it must be a valid connection time". I then reminded him that the flight got changed to a new and not improved shorter connection time. My TA is now contacting SS Air to see what can be done. Hopefully SS will figure this out and do the right thing. "The jury is still out on this one!". I will report back on what has been done. Anybody else that has gone through Heathrow think that a 40 minute connection from Terminal 3 to Terminal 5  is gonna work?