Turn Down Service is going away - will daily room service be next?

[richstowe]

9 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Some of us cruise for the more “organic” reasons.

😅🤣😂 Organic and cruise , the ultimate contradiction . You be you . 

[PACD_JG]

27 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

G

 

 

Some of us cruise for the more “organic” reasons. We’re not cruising for “service”. 
 

One day I hope to get aboard the Alaska Marine Highway and spend some time there. 

 

If that was truly the case, why would you pay more money to cruise on HAL instead of say...Carnival?  Because the service? 

 

"Being on a ship, with the ocean right there and feeling it’s motion" - you can get that from any old boat.

[*Miss G*]

Currently on Oosterdam.  No chocolates, so far, but I did not request them nor do I eat them.  The Hotel GM said this morning that they are being brought back though.

 

Pre-covid and immediately post-covid, I was very disappointed in the demise of the Sommeliers and the service was pathetic from the wine stewards.  In September and October, on the Koningsdam and Oosterdam, the wine service has been excellent and the Sommeliers always available.  Our wine steward on the Koningsdam said he was being to be a Sommelier because there weren’t enough of them.  There is a specific Sommelier on the Oosterdam who traverses the Main Dining Room and always checks to make sure you have the proper glass for the wine and are happy with your choice.

 

I have chosen morning and evening turndown service and all is well.

 

As an addendum, the Hotel GM also said they are aware of the meal quality reduction and are working to bring things back.

[gilboman]

On 10/11/2022 at 4:31 PM, The-Inside-Cabin said:

More and more people are reporting that daily turn down service is only offered "on request" or not offered at all.  

 

Many people, with the best of intentions, cheerfully forgo this service to "help" out their overworked room stewards.  

 

Marriot recently announced a permanent change to their daily room service - more HERE

 

Here is the new Marriott standard - the temporary COVID protocols are now permanent.  

 

What's New?

• Premium Hotels, excluding Resorts, will offer Daily Service
• Select and Extended-Stay Hotels will offer Every-Other-Day Service
• Luxury Hotels/Resorts and Premium Resorts will offer Daily Full Clean Service

 

Daily Full Clean Service is now only in Luxury brands -

 

Will this be coming soon to HAL - only Suites will get daily "full clean service"  (maybe Club Orange)   - No way you say?   Hmmmm Don't count on it.   

 

Back to Holland America - If I thought that forgoing turn down service was temporary due to staffing shortages - I might be more sympathetic.   However,  if people accept the lower standard of service, it will become the permanent standard of service.   Daily service will become every other day.   Room stewards who now have 32 rooms will have 64 rooms, but every other day.   HAL will reduce costs and our fares will stay the same.  

 

While forgoing turndown service may "help" a cabin steward on this cruise - in the long run - there will be fewer cabin stewards and some cabin stewards will lose their jobs - or never get offered a job.   How many Marriott maids are out of work now?  

 

What happened to wine stewards?   HAL experimented by pulling them away - not enough people complained - and they are gone forever.  

 

If you are happy with once a day service - fine.  How about every other day?   How about once a week?  

 

I want to see as many of the hard working crew keep their jobs - that's why I always request turn down service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

ya, on our last two cruises, we had option to choose to have turndown service or not and we declined both times, and just asked they refill our ice bucket from morning. 

 

we never liked turndown service as it was another hassle for us to get out of the room for them to give us some chocolates and make/open the bed. 

[gilboman]

1 hour ago, PACD_JG said:

 

If that was truly the case, why would you pay more money to cruise on HAL instead of say...Carnival?  Because the service? 

 

"Being on a ship, with the ocean right there and feeling it’s motion" - you can get that from any old boat.

for us.. we do HAL over say carnival or RCL not because of service because service is fine ..but for less activities, more quiet vibe and way less busy ships and fewer kids. we find service pretty comparable across the mainlines... main difference we notice is say on princess and HAL, celebrity etc..they are more attentive in the buffet in terms of drinks..but we don't really care..i prefer getting my own drink anyways 

[3Shelaghs]

Would prefer a fully cleaned cabin, stock of towels and TP upon embarkation, and then leave us alone. There is nothing to making a bed, and it reduces the chance of infection transfers esp norovirus when you don't have an attendant going cabin to cabin.

[Guest ldtr]

9 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

We have read all the foregoing posts  . Seems to me HAL keeps increasing the cost of tips & decreases service simultaneously  . That never  worked for me in the past & it surely doesn't work for me now  .

Surely if we don't get the service then I surely will reduce my tips in kind  . 

 

 We stopped sailing Celebrity ships for a very long time because they sut back on food that we enjoyed  . for the prices that the cruise lines charge plus the tip increases  I will stay in a all inclusive  land  resort  before I ever give up my expectations . 

 We also feel accepting less gets less ^ less gets less employment  ,just ask those bean counters 

 

 

Oh get over it.  Wages are going up all over.  The tips are a large component of employee salary. I am quite sure that if the cruise lines raised the fares instead of tips you would be complaining just as much about the cruise pricing.

[Guest ldtr]

6 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I stay in a lot of hotels and yes breakfast is back but it certainly is not what it was.  It seems every industry faces the same quandary- raise prices and lose customers or cut back services in order to retain customers.  
 

There has always been an economic reset coming out of any crisis.  During that reset consumers change their expectations additionally some consumers drop out and others enter.  Businesses have to discover the right equation of benefits and prices to offer.
 

  Consider the cruise  case of dining dress, decorum and socializing - in general people of the late baby boom era are less likely to want to formally dress or participate in more formalized dining traditions.   Those who enjoy those attendant services of the formalized dining consider the new version as a degradation of service however their younger counterparts consider it a welcome change.  As an observer of economic behavior I have definitely noticed a new trend towards buffet dining.  (Not my personal preference).  That along with the popular revenue raising specialty restaurants is going to cause a major shift.  Some of us will love the shift, some will not and likely those who don’t like it will attribute the shift solely to accounting never imagining that their beloved custom is passé.

Change is inevitable, though to some people any change is due to greed and nefarious motivations.

 

Reality is hotels, as well as cruise lines actually have a very good understanding what their bookings are and what their customers are willing to pay for.

 

Hotels are not only competing with other hotels chains but also with rental houses and apartments that basically deliver no services along with the accommodation. 

 

What some call additional services others consider to be additional intrusions.

 

We are now in a period, post pandemic, where travel companies of all kinds are trying to discover what the new normal is.  What services they will need to provide to complete.  Unfortunately with the very high demand for hotels and air travel what they are finding is that they can increase their rates, keep services at the pandemic level and bookings are still high.  With the current trend of the economy we might get enough a reduction in demand that will get them to actually look at adding services.

 

Was recently in Hawaii at a major Hilton resort.  Went there last year.  At that time we expected that some services would be limited, some dining venues would be closed.  This year we expected things to be more back to normal. It was not the same dining venues were still closed, the same limited service level.  We were booked for a week, but chose to leave after 2 days to go to a different resort that had returned to more normal service levels.

Edited October 21, 2022 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

My issues with both HAL and Celebrity (cut-backs at both lines) goes back several years prior to COVID.  Some of what we have heard (from friends and posts here on CC) post COVID are more reason for concern.  I believe that most quality companies (which includes HAL) respond to their customers.  When customers simply sit back and accept various cut-backs and negative changes the company doubles down with more cut-backs.  The old "give em an inch" saying does apply.  Those who have cruised on HAL for decades have see it all, but most do not complain.  So when HAL replaced the excellent Rosario Strings with various solo/duet folks (generally of lower quality) most said, "OK."  When HAL cut-back on the room service breakfast menus, most HAL fans said "OK."  When HAL eliminated Production Shows (often with a live band) folks said, "OK"  When HAL replaced any evening show with a BBC Documentary, some of the HAL fans said "we like movies."   I will not even start to get into the changes in the MDR and Lido but most have noticed negative changes.

 

If the HAL faithful had reacted to cut-backs, complained, made an issue in their evaluations, and posted here on CC (which is monitored by all cruise lines) perhaps the cut-backs would have stopped!  Recently there were some posted complaints on the Seabourn board about some declines.  Some of the Seabourn "suites" suddenly showed up on a couple of cruises and the complaints have apparently been reduced.  I mention this because Keeping one's mouth shut is not always the best way to encourage quality and excellence.  

 

We have a long (42 day) HAL cruise next spring which will either reinforce our long-time enjoyment of HAL or put the nail in their coffin (from our point of view).   Perhaps we cannot convince HAL to make some improvements, but we always have the ability to vote with our dollars and business.   Unlike some fellow HAL fans, we also cruise and enjoy many other lines.  Consumers have a choice and perhaps HAL (and some other cruise lines) need to be reminded that it is a competitive industry and once loyal customers try another product it may be difficult to lure them back.  

 

Hank

Or the other is that you are no longer their targeted customer.

 

A business that tries to be everything to everyone is either going to be very expensive (which means that they can not be everything to everyone) or will do a poor job of providing to anyone.

 

HAL's positioning is getting pretty clear.  It, as with Celebrity and Princess, is a mass market lines, with a smaller average ship size, and a longer average cruise length than its competitors, at a price point that is competitive with them.  Having sailed on its competitors, as well as HAL, recently there are several things that HAL does better than its competitors, as well as some things a bit worse.  But it is certainly competitive in the market niche it has chosen.

[Florida_gal_50]

3 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

Currently on Oosterdam.  No chocolates, so far, but I did not request them nor do I eat them.  The Hotel GM said this morning that they are being brought back though.

 

Pre-covid and immediately post-covid, I was very disappointed in the demise of the Sommeliers and the service was pathetic from the wine stewards.  In September and October, on the Koningsdam and Oosterdam, the wine service has been excellent and the Sommeliers always available.  Our wine steward on the Koningsdam said he was being to be a Sommelier because there weren’t enough of them.  There is a specific Sommelier on the Oosterdam who traverses the Main Dining Room and always checks to make sure you have the proper glass for the wine and are happy with your choice.

 

I have chosen morning and evening turndown service and all is well.

 

As an addendum, the Hotel GM also said they are aware of the meal quality reduction and are working to bring things back.

Thank you for that information.  I hope that is true but I suspect that is just to placate people.  They've been "working on" the online discount for mariners that get that for about 20 years now. 

[zgscl]

12 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Thank you for that information.  I hope that is true but I suspect that is just to placate people.  They've been "working on" the online discount for mariners that get that for about 20 years now. 

When I call the IT help desk at my employer (a very large hospitality company) they frequently will say "xxx is currently not working. We are aware of the issue and working towards a fix. Presently there is no ETA." I think it is very similar to HAL working on some of these issues 🤣. 

 

I think what we will see is a shift towards opt in vs opt out both on land and at sea. The vast majority of people just go with the default. By having people request cleaning instead of having it automatically you might have 20-25% of people request service on any given day, instead of 10% of people request to not have service when daily housekeeping was the norm. This obviously adds up to enormous labor savings, but also with current labor shortages coming out of the pandemic allows them to spread the current team out farther. The problem is of course that no one then wants to flip the switch back and add the labor back when things start to normalize. There used to be It is the same thing with airline change fees, it took the pandemic to make them go away - and we have yet to see if they stay gone. It all adds up to billions and billions of dollars for these companies. Just like self check out at the grocery store & self check in at the airport, everything evolves towards what will bring the most dollars to the bottom line. 

[Florida_gal_50]

I saw something interesting on Facebook this morning.  It was posted by Hal.  I assume the information is correct.  It showed where each ship is positioned and the crew size.  I just checked a couple ships with another site the references crew size.  The ships I checked are fully staffed.  The Rotterdam was showing a few extra staff than what the website showed as the crew size.  If the information is correct and I assume it is there should be no reason to not provide pre pandemic service.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Florida_gal_50

[CruisingGrandmaW]

Hi All:

@The-Inside-Cabin  Interesting reading the complaints of passengers currently sailing on the Seabourn.  I've also read complaints by passengers sailing on Celebrity, RCL, NCL etc.

Puts our complaints/disappointments with HAL into perspective.

 

Reading "Calm Down Dear"'s narrative - makes me REALLY glad I choose HAL.

[Guest ldtr]

8 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I saw something interesting on Facebook this morning.  It was posted by Hal.  I assume the information is correct.  It showed where each ship is positioned and the crew size.  I just checked a couple ships with another site the references crew size.  The ships I checked are fully staffed.  The Rotterdam was showing a few extra staff than what the website showed as the crew size.  If the information is correct and I assume it is there should be no reason to not provide pre pandemic service.

The size might be the same, but is the composition the same?  Cruise ships have pretty much fixed capacity for crew.  If they have to add staffing for a given function, lets say medical, they have to remove people from other functions.

[Florida_gal_50]

10 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The size might be the same, but is the composition the same?  Cruise ships have pretty much fixed capacity for crew.  If they have to add staffing for a given function, lets say medical, they have to remove people from other functions.

Is medical part of the “crew” count? I don’t know about that.  Even so, maybe it might be 10 or 20 people, not hundreds.  I suppose if someone wants to argue you can say that.  Medical people are not employees. 

[FlaMariner]

1 hour ago, CruisingGrandmaW said:

Reading "Calm Down Dear"'s narrative - makes me REALLY glad I choose HAL.

 

Agree!  That was a hoot.  

 

Another reason....actually a lot of reasons... to cling to the 'dam ships............after reading that.

 

(And always love the Brit humor)

[Mary229]

37 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Is medical part of the “crew” count? I don’t know about that.  Even so, maybe it might be 10 or 20 people, not hundreds.  I suppose if someone wants to argue you can say that.  Medical people are not employees. 

On my first cruise there was a shortage of staff but after that there appeared to be a full crew but lots and lots of new hires.   It might be a year or two until those folks are accomplished at their positions.  

[Florida_gal_50]

30 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

On my first cruise there was a shortage of staff but after that there appeared to be a full crew but lots and lots of new hires.   It might be a year or two until those folks are accomplished at their positions.  

Absolutely.  I think some employers believe one is the same as the next.  Everyone is going to take time to get up to speed no matter how keen or smart they are.  I made the Facebook post because you hear often on here hal is struggling to find staff like everyone else.  Doesn’t appear that way.  It’s probably the same people that think hal doesn’t serve lobster for free because of supply issues 😛.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Florida_gal_50

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Is medical part of the “crew” count? I don’t know about that.  Even so, maybe it might be 10 or 20 people, not hundreds.  I suppose if someone wants to argue you can say that.  Medical people are not employees. 

All non-passengers on board the ship are considered crew as far as crew capacity is concerned.  Cabins are either above  passengers or crew.  The ships capacity is fixed for both.  speakers and guest entertainers might be in either depending upon cruise line (guest speakers  are in crew quarters on Celebrity, but in passenger cabins on Princess for example).

 

I just gave medical as an example.  Any time they make changes there are usually some changes to staffing.  In many ways the number of quarters used are as much of the decision in staffing is the cost. If they can cut down on the number of stewards by making the evening turndown service by request only, then that increases their flexibility to add staff for another function.  So you might have the same numbers post Covid but not necessarily the same staffing for each function.

 

If they add sales staff or art gallery staff or spa staff or additional entertainers (permanent, not guest) they are all  counted against the ships crew capacity.  Cruise ships tend to run pretty much at their crew cabin capacity.

Edited October 22, 2022 by ldtr

[LMaxwell]

Some people can play armchair COO or CFO, that's cool, but as I'm maturing I find that I do prefer that my money go to services and amenities instead of gimmicks and amusement parks. Often in life I feel that once I accept the difference and step up to pay the premium, whatever made something worth a premium is cut back. When I agree to pay thousands of dollars in discretionary money for a good time, immediately being confronted with services and amenities that won't exist at some point between paying and boarding is frustrating and irritating. 

 

Without tripling the price....charge a few dollars a day more per person, and tell me about the enhancements to included services instead. I know that sounds verrrrrry old fashioned, but I'm only in my 40's. 

[Florida_gal_50]

7 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Some people can play armchair COO or CFO, that's cool, but as I'm maturing I find that I do prefer that my money go to services and amenities instead of gimmicks and amusement parks. Often in life I feel that once I accept the difference and step up to pay the premium, whatever made something worth a premium is cut back. When I agree to pay thousands of dollars in discretionary money for a good time, immediately being confronted with services and amenities that won't exist at some point between paying and boarding is frustrating and irritating. 

 

Without tripling the price....charge a few dollars a day more per person, and tell me about the enhancements to included services instead. I know that sounds verrrrrry old fashioned, but I'm only in my 40's. 

I’m definitely not paying a few extra dollars.  Hal needs to stop giving out free cruises like candy to a few chosen ones.  I pay plenty for my cruises so some can coast.  When you see someone say they want a world cruise for a hundred bucks I just shake my head in disbelief.  That’s what you get for giving out too many free cruises.  It’s never enough. 

[jimmy2x]

2 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I’m definitely not paying a few extra dollars.  Hal needs to stop giving out free cruises like candy to a few chosen ones.  I pay plenty for my cruises so some can coast.  When you see someone say they want a world cruise for a hundred bucks I just shake my head in disbelief.  That’s what you get for giving out too many free cruises.  It’s never enough. 

Disbelief is the key word. We’ve all come across pathetic people who like to appear smarter than everyone else. The vast majority of your fellow cruisers have paid a price that they are content with. And don’t discuss it with relative strangers. 

[Laminator]

3 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I’m definitely not paying a few extra dollars.  Hal needs to stop giving out free cruises like candy to a few chosen ones.  I pay plenty for my cruises so some can coast.  When you see someone say they want a world cruise for a hundred bucks I just shake my head in disbelief.  That’s what you get for giving out too many free cruises.  It’s never enough. 

You always seem to be disgusted with the so called "free cruises" HAL is giving out. On the casino cruises HAL is not giving away anything. Carnival Casino division provides the free cruise. And they pay HAL for that room. That is why it takes anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks to show the booking as paid in full. Granted they pay HAL approximately 70 to 75 percent of the online cabin cost. But they need to make these offers to keep up with the offers we get from NCL, RC, Carnival, MSC and others. Last week RC lowered their threshold for a free cabin from their casino play so we will see what the Carnival Casino division does with HAL to compete. 

[mcrcruiser]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:53 AM, ldtr said:

Oh get over it.  Wages are going up all over.  The tips are a large component of employee salary. I am quite sure that if the cruise lines raised the fares instead of tips you would be complaining just as much about the cruise pricing.

what I am talking about is wages vs service , why would you  or anyone else pay more to get less service , Because it is a cruise line really has nothing to do with  service . What does impact man hours is corporate dictates  from the top .,  If  corporate decides they will give less services that  impacts my enjoyment   on my cruise , yes then the salaries should also be commensurate with the cuts in services bot increased 

We always add more for better  service & with 87 past cruises we clearly know the differences ,&  now 7 new cruises booked on 3 different   cruise lines to get what we wanted & when we wanted to sail 

 

 

 

 

 

[mcrcruiser]

If HAL decides to cut   services  or food quality to the point  we can see the lowering of our enjoyment we will go elsewhere to cruise or even to change to a all inclusive land vacation . Yes there are lots of choices  out  there for any thing   .We own high end time share  properties &  this gives us maximum flexibility for any where in this world