Real ID enforcement date extended

[mz-s]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

So, if I (or anyone else) get a jury notice for federal court, having no real ID would be an excuse to get out of jury duty as one could not enter the building?

 

If the defendant has no real ID, would he or she be allowed to attend their own trial?

 

This all keeps getting more bizarre!

 

You’re asking questions that nobody can answer…not even the people who wrote the law, I’m sure.

[Top_of_the_Cube]

On 12/5/2022 at 2:25 PM, john91498 said:

Do you not need Real ID to fly?

 

Just perusing through the U.S. State Dept page for some light reading.  Once Real ID is implemented, you can choose from a list of what they call "Real ID-compliant" documents that U.S. citizens will need in order to fly domestically.  You will need to show only ONE of either:  Real ID (state-issued identification), passport, passport card, enhanced ID (state-issued), plus a few other items.  And, Real ID is not acceptable for flights outside the U.S.

 

Bringing it back to cruising -  since Real ID is considered proof of U.S. citizenship, it is acceptable by the U.S. for closed-loop sailings (no birth certificate or other additional identifying document needed) to leave and enter the country.  But, a ship or any of the ports of call can require more (passport, visa, etc.), and you won't be allowed to board until you satisfy their requirements.

 

Just my interpretation of what I read.  Note that some parts of the law had been changed but the website was not updated, so for whatever that is worth.

[bandjwayne]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:34 PM, amydresh said:

I’m in Green Bay.  There definitely was a time when it sucked to go to the DMV but their number system now seems to get people in and out fairly quickly.

I think WI has done away with a road test to get your license.  That definitely would free up some DMV workers to help others.

[Lane Hog]

4 hours ago, Top_of_the_Cube said:

Bringing it back to cruising -  since Real ID is considered proof of U.S. citizenship, it is acceptable by the U.S. for closed-loop sailings (no birth certificate or other additional identifying document needed) to leave and enter the country. 

Nope, Real ID is not proof of citizenship.  It's simply proof of legal residency. 

Non-US citizens who are here on green cards or visas can get a Real ID if they've been issued a SSN.

People who overstay their visa or who entered illegally cannot get a Real ID, which will present a bit of a problem for "undocumented migrants" once the mandate is finally imposed.

[sparks1093]

5 hours ago, Top_of_the_Cube said:

 

Just perusing through the U.S. State Dept page for some light reading.  Once Real ID is implemented, you can choose from a list of what they call "Real ID-compliant" documents that U.S. citizens will need in order to fly domestically.  You will need to show only ONE of either:  Real ID (state-issued identification), passport, passport card, enhanced ID (state-issued), plus a few other items.  And, Real ID is not acceptable for flights outside the U.S.

 

Bringing it back to cruising -  since Real ID is considered proof of U.S. citizenship, it is acceptable by the U.S. for closed-loop sailings (no birth certificate or other additional identifying document needed) to leave and enter the country.  But, a ship or any of the ports of call can require more (passport, visa, etc.), and you won't be allowed to board until you satisfy their requirements.

 

Just my interpretation of what I read.  Note that some parts of the law had been changed but the website was not updated, so for whatever that is worth.

I recall reading a thread by a gentleman from Texas. He showed up at the port with only his REAL ID thinking it was enough. It wasn't. He was lucky that someone was able to fax his birth cert to the port or he would have left there trying to argue his point. REAL ID does not prove citizenship. 

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, Top_of_the_Cube said:

 

Just perusing through the U.S. State Dept page for some light reading.  Once Real ID is implemented, you can choose from a list of what they call "Real ID-compliant" documents that U.S. citizens will need in order to fly domestically.  You will need to show only ONE of either:  Real ID (state-issued identification), passport, passport card, enhanced ID (state-issued), plus a few other items.  And, Real ID is not acceptable for flights outside the U.S.

 

Bringing it back to cruising -  since Real ID is considered proof of U.S. citizenship, it is acceptable by the U.S. for closed-loop sailings (no birth certificate or other additional identifying document needed) to leave and enter the country.  But, a ship or any of the ports of call can require more (passport, visa, etc.), and you won't be allowed to board until you satisfy their requirements.

 

Just my interpretation of what I read.  Note that some parts of the law had been changed but the website was not updated, so for whatever that is worth.

 

All I know is I don't want to be anywhere near an airport on May 7, 2025.  It is going to be a zoo.  

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

22 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

All I know is I don't want to be anywhere near an airport on May 7, 2025.  It is going to be a zoo.  

I'm sure it'll be fine. 

 

They'll extend it again. 

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, PrincessArlena'sDad said:

I'm sure it'll be fine. 

 

They'll extend it again. 

If I were a frequent flier I would certainly not be counting on it.

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I recall reading a thread by a gentleman from Texas. He showed up at the port with only his REAL ID thinking it was enough. It wasn't. He was lucky that someone was able to fax his birth cert to the port or he would have left there trying to argue his point. REAL ID does not prove citizenship. 

Just to circle back to this, DHS has a website of REAL ID FAQs here https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs. Here's what they say about REAL ID and border crossing and cruising:

Q: Can I use my REAL ID card to cross the border into Canada and Mexico and for international travel?

No. REAL ID cards cannot be used for border crossings into Canada, Mexico or other international travel.

Q: Can I use my REAL ID for sea (cruise) travel?

No. REAL ID cards cannot be used for international sea cruise travel.

Now, I'm not a fan of the second answer because it seems to imply that they cannot be used at all, which is not correct. They are still a government issued ID and may be used in conjunction with a citizenship document for cruising.

 

And here is what they say about EDLs:

 

Q: Will a federal agency accept my Enhanced Driver's License?

Yes. State-issued Enhanced Driver's Licenses (EDLs) are designated as acceptable border-crossing documents by DHS under the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative and are acceptable alternatives for official federal purposes such as accessing a federal facility or boarding a commercial aircraft. Individual agency policies may still apply.

Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Vermont, and Washington are the only states that currently issue EDLs. For more information on EDLs, please go to https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, PrincessArlena'sDad said:

I'm sure it'll be fine. 

 

They'll extend it again. 

Again, and again, and again...

[Top_of_the_Cube]

16 hours ago, Lane Hog said:

Nope, Real ID is not proof of citizenship.  It's simply proof of legal residency. 

Non-US citizens who are here on green cards or visas can get a Real ID if they've been issued a SSN.

People who overstay their visa or who entered illegally cannot get a Real ID, which will present a bit of a problem for "undocumented migrants" once the mandate is finally imposed.

 

You are correct, I misspoke.  The Real ID indicates that you have met a certain federal standard of identification.  If you can provide the appropriate documentation that you are legally in the United States, citizen or non-citizen, you may qualify to apply for a Real ID.  

 

Thanks for catching that.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------

And for those participating in the discussion about how this might affect persons involved in court proceedings but do not have or are not eligible for Real ID, found the following:

• REAL ID does NOT apply to the following:
  •   Participating in law enforcement proceedings or investigations
•  www.dhs.gov/real-id.

 

[DAllenTCY]

A "Real ID" is not acceptable for any cruise....closed loop or not.

Either bring a Passport, Birth Certificate, Enhanced DL from the states of Washington, Vermont, New York, Minnesota, or Michigan.

 

An Enhanced DL will say "ENHANCED" on the face of it and have the US flag instead of some other icon such as a star.

 

Other than a passport, a Birth Certificate by a government agency is acceptable for a closed loop trip.

 

Other options which satisfy citizenship are available, but they are not commonplace.

 

Cruising to the Hawaiian Islands?  Your ship will require proof of citizenship which is not a "Real ID"

That is the most frequent misconception regarding cruises from the West Coast.

David

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, DAllenTCY said:

A "Real ID" is not acceptable for any cruise....closed loop or not.

Either bring a Passport, Birth Certificate, Enhanced DL from the states of Washington, Vermont, New York, Minnesota, or Michigan.

 

An Enhanced DL will say "ENHANCED" on the face of it and have the US flag instead of some other icon such as a star.

 

Other than a passport, a Birth Certificate by a government agency is acceptable for a closed loop trip.

 

Other options which satisfy citizenship are available, but they are not commonplace.

 

Cruising to the Hawaiian Islands?  Your ship will require proof of citizenship which is not a "Real ID"

That is the most frequent misconception regarding cruises from the West Coast.

David

My EDL has both a star and a flag. And to be clear the REAL ID is acceptable for a cruise in conjunction with a document that shows citizenship such as a birth certificate.

[DAllenTCY]

 

You cannot sail through the Panama Canal with what you mention....nor trans Atlantic....and I'm certain there are cruises where a passport (and possibly a visa) are required.

 

David

Edited December 10, 2022 by DAllenTCY

[ray98]

8 hours ago, DAllenTCY said:

 

You cannot sail through the Panama Canal with what you mention....nor trans Atlantic....and I'm certain there are cruises where a passport (and possibly a visa) are required.

 

David

Obviously he is talking about Caribbean cruises.

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, DAllenTCY said:

 

You cannot sail through the Panama Canal with what you mention....nor trans Atlantic....and I'm certain there are cruises where a passport (and possibly a visa) are required.

 

David

 

22 minutes ago, ray98 said:

Obviously he is talking about Caribbean cruises.

Quite so, but to be clear I was talking about a closed loop cruise within the WHTI. For other cruises a passport would be needed.

[RD64]

I am sorry but I just do not understand the (in general) American hesitancy to get a passport. Is this something purely based on cost?

 

 

[pe4all]

27 minutes ago, RD64 said:

I am sorry but I just do not understand the (in general) American hesitancy to get a passport. Is this something purely based on cost?

 

 

That is probably part of it.  I am sure there are many reasons people don't want passports. Maybe some don't want the government "tracking" them.  Maybe they don't have the forms of id needed to get one.  To me having a formal kind of id that lasts for 10 years (5 for children) is well worth it.  My kids have had passports since ages 4/7 since we started cruising and doing all inclusive out of the country.  But to each their own. 

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, RD64 said:

I am sorry but I just do not understand the (in general) American hesitancy to get a passport. Is this something purely based on cost?

 

 

Most Americans flat out don't need one for the type of travel that they can do. I live 8 miles from the border with Canada and for most of the folks around here that will be their only international destination in their life time. They could spend the money on a passport, but for that type of travel it is more affordable to get the passport card or an EDL. When we first started cruising it would have cost around $850 to get passports and for a 4 day cruise that just didn't seem like a good expenditure (and three of those passports would have limited validity due to the age of the kids). DW and I both knew that we wanted to travel to Europe some day, but at that time those plans were only pipe dreams. After looking at all of the risks we determined that it was feasible to cruise using our birth certificates (naturalization certificate in DW's case) and photo IDs and wait until we needed the passports for the type of travel we were doing. Every cruise we took thereafter we looked at the issue all over again. We made our first trip to Europe in 2015 and that is when we got our passports (and by that time we had taken 4 cruises, although we had EDLs by the time of the 4th trip). So in the end it probably comes down to Americans don't need a passport for the types of travel they can do so they don't worry about getting one.

[jsglow]

We have Passports, REAL ID Driver's Licenses and most recently Global Entry cards.  I don't remember getting the first two being any particular hardship.  Global Entry is another thing altogether!  Long delays for us with that.

 

The best part is bypassing most of the lines when re-entering the country.  And for cruises, having a Passport enables one to breeze through Customs using 'Smile and Go'.  Really speeds up the disembarkation process.

 

Admittedly, we travel a lot so having all the proper credentials is prudent.

[Incognito1]

On 12/6/2022 at 5:46 PM, RenoNanaOz said:

I just don't get this. You have to bring in a few more "proof of residence" documents and you get a DL with a star on it???? Oh and it cost double of a regular DL, there it is.

National database instead of a state one (Homeland says it's not; ACLU says it is.)  

[sparks1093]

5 hours ago, Incognito1 said:

National database instead of a state one (Homeland says it's not; ACLU says it is.)  

Well, DHS has access to all of the databases so I don't think it matters that much.

[Theosprey247]

When it does come into effect.  There will be lawsuits.....