Dogs on the ship

[Frenchberet]

Does Viking have designated cabins that are accessible for “handicapped” travelers?  If so, maybe these could be used for those needing to travel with service dogs.

[KBs mum]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I wasn't going to return to this thread, but some "solutions" mentioned are just not right.  My comments, again, are in regard to service animals, not fake ones, and again I reiterate my belief that if a "code of conduct" was adopted, and enforced, via disembarkation, that most of the fake dogs would be eliminated.

What stateroom category would this one cabin be in?  What if the person with a service animal did not want to sail in that category, but wanted a better one?  What if the cabin was in an upper category, and the person could not afford that category?

 

Just like how most cruise ships have more berths than they can sell, based on lifeboat capacity, that is done so that those who wish to book more than two people in a cabin, can have a choice of category.  So, at the very least there should be one "dog" cabin in each category.

 

While, as I have mentioned that the ship's "internal policies and procedures" are not subject to the ADA, I don't believe that a "one dog at a time" policy would be found to be legal under the ADA, or based on Spector v NCL, as they would be denying accommodation based on the disability, since the presence of one dog does not "substantially interfere with the nature of the business", then how do two dogs?

I don't know the provisions of the ADA in detail, but in practice I have found that handicap/accessible/ADA rooms are usually in the least expensive categories in any establishment in  any country, it's very rare to get a suite. 

Many disabilities result in impaired lung function, mine included, so a 50/50% dog/non dog ratio of ADA rooms might be sensible to be suitable for all disabilities? 

The UK equalities act requires reasonable adaptations be made, (an acknowledgement that we have to deal with some mediaeval buildings) as ever supply of anything, including accommodation, may be limited if its gone, it's gone. We book two years ahead to get a suitable room of our choosing, either cruising or independent travel on land. I suspect most people who have disabilities are used to this sort of thing 

 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, Frenchberet said:

Does Viking have designated cabins that are accessible for “handicapped” travelers?  If so, maybe these could be used for those needing to travel with service dogs.

Again, what if the owner of the service dog did not want a cabin with the roll-in shower and all the grab bars that accessible cabins have?  Does Viking have accessible cabins in every category?  I think the easiest thing would be to designate a portion of each cabin category as "dog free", and have that as a special request, than to limit the cabins available to non-mobility challenged service dog owners.

[KBs mum]

5 minutes ago, Frenchberet said:

Does Viking have designated cabins that are accessible for “handicapped” travelers?  If so, maybe these could be used for those needing to travel with service dogs.

Yes, they are classed as ADA rooms

[KBs mum]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

Again, what if the owner of the service dog did not want a cabin with the roll-in shower and all the grab bars that accessible cabins have?  Does Viking have accessible cabins in every category?  I think the easiest thing would be to designate a portion of each cabin category as "dog free", and have that as a special request, than to limit the cabins available to non-mobility challenged service dog owners.

Turn this argument around. I would like to book a suite that meets the provisions I am used to in the UK. 

Doesn't exist. I make the best of it, do some research and book the best compromise.

If I travel with my scooter I have to book a room it will get to, fit into and gave a suitable plug for rechargeing. Will likely not be an accessible room, such are the realities of having a disabity. I therefore travel with a folding wheelchair. 

Viking only has accessible cabins in one category, apparently meeting the requirements of the ADA. A person who has a disability will be well used to this reality, theory is one thing, practice another.

If you don't have a disability why do you need a service/assistance dog to travel. If you have a disability ADA rooms will OK even if not ideal. You may not need the grab bars but so what if they are there

[Frenchberet]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Again, what if the owner of the service dog did not want a cabin with the roll-in shower and all the grab bars that accessible cabins have?  Does Viking have accessible cabins in every category?  I think the easiest thing would be to designate a portion of each cabin category as "dog free", and have that as a special request, than to limit the cabins available to non-mobility challenged service dog owners.

I guess this is a “no win” situation.  So, under this scenario if I don’t want a cabin where a dog has been, I have to request a special cabin? 🤔

 

In our 6 Viking cruises I’ve never seen a dog on board.  However, I’ve never sailed from a US port.  The report of 4+ dogs on board does seem unusual.  

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

1 hour ago, Vineyard View said:

I was thinking the same with the one dog allowed statement made to me. How that could legally be accomplished. 
 

I had not thought of the cabin categories/ designated cabins though, and that of course makes sense. It would be a sticky wicket if only one cabin in one category was made available for all the reasons you point out. 

I don't disagree!

[dd57]

This thread has gotten me thinking that Viking's code of conduct could start with the ADA requirements, so I went on a hunt for answers.  Here is the definition of a service animal per the ADA:

 

https://www.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/

 

Any breed, no requirement for formal training or certification.  Businesses are not allowed to ask for any documentation on training or certification.

 

I've attached a PDF from the Department of Justice answering common questions, including when a service animal and handler can be asked to leave, that hotels may not designate only certain rooms for dogs, dogs can't sit on chairs in restaurants and food is only for the human, and the dog must be with the handler at all times and can't be left alone in a hotel room, among many other topics.

 

I have no clue how the ADA applies to cruise ships when they are in the US.

 

ada_service_dog_law.pdf

[Jim Avery]

This thread has got me thinking....  And since Viking is the "Thinking Person's" cruise, I have applied to Viking for an ok to take my Emotional Support Child with us on the next World Cruise which we are booked.  He can sit on my lap at the bar and, of course travels for free.  Yes, the Thinking Person......

 

\Hahahaha, ES child is 41 and can now travel free!  🤪😱🥃🥃

[Vineyard View]

1 hour ago, dd57 said:

This thread has gotten me thinking that Viking's code of conduct could start with the ADA requirements, so I went on a hunt for answers.  Here is the definition of a service animal per the ADA:

 

https://www.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/

 

Any breed, no requirement for formal training or certification.  Businesses are not allowed to ask for any documentation on training or certification.

 

I've attached a PDF from the Department of Justice answering common questions, including when a service animal and handler can be asked to leave, that hotels may not designate only certain rooms for dogs, dogs can't sit on chairs in restaurants and food is only for the human, and the dog must be with the handler at all times and can't be left alone in a hotel room, among many other topics.

 

I have no clue how the ADA applies to cruise ships when they are in the US.

 

ada_service_dog_law.pdf 385.22 kB · 1 download

I am aware of many hotels that have certain rooms designated for people who are traveling with their dogs. And rooms that dogs cannot be in. These are not service dogs though so I suspect that this is with respect to only service dogs….which after this epic thread makes me wonder where the truth really lies. 

Regarding cruise lines though, I really do embrace the ‘code of conduct’ concept with penalties for violations clearly spelled out, including removal from the ship.  Something needs to be clearly spelled out, and I am not sure that the revised rules that Viking posted a couple days back really did that. It’s better, but it’s not tight. There are still loose ends people could pull on. 

[longterm]

I got a call from a Viking rep this afternoon, in response to an email that I sent concerning this issue.

 

The woman, whose first name is Denise, told me that in the last couple of weeks Viking has modified their policy, and will not allow "emotional support animals" on board Viking vessels. She also told me that they limit the number of service animals to two per ship--I don't know how they would do that, if there were three blind people on a ship, for example--but that's what she told me.

 

She also said that this was in response to reports of an "isolated incident."

 

All in all, however, it was a favorable response; we'll just have to see what we see on ships going forward.

 

 

[ronrythm]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Again, what if the owner of the service dog did not want a cabin with the roll-in shower and all the grab bars that accessible cabins have?  Does Viking have accessible cabins in every category?  I think the easiest thing would be to designate a portion of each cabin category as "dog free", and have that as a special request, than to limit the cabins available to non-mobility challenged service dog owners.

Also, what if a person who needs the roll in shower can’t get the cabin, because someone who doesn’t need the roll in shower but has a service animal has the cabin?

[Vineyard View]

1 hour ago, longterm said:

I got a call from a Viking rep this afternoon, in response to an email that I sent concerning this issue.

 

The woman, whose first name is Denise, told me that in the last couple of weeks Viking has modified their policy, and will not allow "emotional support animals" on board Viking vessels. She also told me that they limit the number of service animals to two per ship--I don't know how they would do that, if there were three blind people on a ship, for example--but that's what she told me.

 

 

 

I am really glad that Viking is taking the time to make these calls. It says a lot. 
However their message needs to be consistent. I was told one dog per ship. Either answer sounds unenforceable. Again - all in specific writing and rules  for those who want to bring dogs on board is essential. Thanks for letting us know longterm. 

[vslparis]

23 hours ago, SantaFe1 said:

Ok, this is the sweetest dog in the world.  She loves ALL people.  She loves NO other dogs.  She is NOT hypoallergenic  Do you really want her aboard?  We pay big bucks  to have her well looked after at home.  If you can’t do that, then don’t cruise.  I am tired of this thread. ( sorry to be so grumpy!)

 

What a lovely dog with such expressive eyes !  You can tell that she is happy in her home. 

 

 

[Mrs Miggins]

I would be surprised if anyone who requires an Emotional Support Animal actually reads Cruise Critic.

We are a small proportion of the cruising public.  Most of my cruising friends have never heard of it.  Many of them, including me, have lovely dogs.  None would think of trying to take their pets onboard.

 

My dog has diabetes and I belong to an online help group.  Many of them do not take holidays abroad because they need to provide "emotional" and real care to pets that need injections,  regular sometimes daily blood tests, and calorie controlled diets. They put their pets needs above their own.   I am lucky enough to have a long standing house/dog sitter but cannot do anything last minute until I have ensured Ruby is cared for.

 

However it would appear that Viking does read Cruise Critic,  thankfully.

[Hobson1754]

I have received a response from Viking (UK) today and they acknowledge that: 
 

“We are aware of isolated instances of improper conduct from service animals and their owners in our public areas on board on of our ocean vessels, and this has been addressed internally.”

 

’….guests travelling with a service animal are required to provide the appropriate documentation to support their request, which is reviewed by our Senior Management Team prior to approval. Requests for pets or emotional support animals are denied, as per our policy on the matter.’

They added that they are confident that all aspects of our on board experience, on our upcoming 2 cruises will be entirely to our satisfaction. Let’s hope so🤞

[Vineyard View]

Viking will continue to contend that these were service animals….that passed inspection with proper paperwork …..because quite frankly, how could they not?  We all know that there were big misses in the vetting process for these pets being allowed on board. It’s just impossible to defend otherwise. 
That said, I am really grateful that the OP and others on board shared all to this. It would not have escalated as it did if not, and therefore not have grabbed Viking corporate attention. I hope it gained attention to the top of the chain, as it is extremely important.
I remain impressed that Viking reached out to many of us in response. I truly hope that this thread has provided some very useful information to Viking moving forward so that these situations do not repeat. I am also convinced that the CC community will be vocal if it continues. Reputation of a company is important and Viking cares deeply about that. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Vineyard View

[Pushka]

6 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Viking will continue to contend that these were service animals….that passed inspection with proper paperwork …..because quite frankly, how could they not?  We all know that there were big misses in the vetting process for these pets being allowed on board. It’s just impossible to defend otherwise. 
That said, I am really grateful that the OP and others on board shared all to this. It would not have escalated as it did if not, and therefore not have grabbed Viking corporate attention. I hope it gained attention to the top of the chain, as it is extremely important.
I remain impressed that Viking reached out to many of us in response. I truly hope that this thread has provided some very useful information to Viking moving forward so that these situations do not repeat. I am also convinced that the CC community will be vocal if it continues. Reputation of a company is important and Viking cares deeply about that. 

They have no choice but continue to assert that in this instance. However I expect there won't be a second time. Thankyou to those who shared their concerns. 

[diogenes65]

On 3/28/2023 at 10:01 AM, Iloveketo said:

There was an emotional support dog on our French Polynesian cruise in January of 2022. I was very surprised. We saw it sitting on the woman’s lap in the front set of chairs in the Explorers Lounge and then with a group of around 8 people having their photo taken at the top of the atrium stairs. The dog was small, quiet and in an opened handbag at that time. On the 33 day cruise. I only saw it twice. 
So, I definitely believe the poster!

Dog in an opened handbag?   Welcome to Dogs as a Fashion Accessory.

[Sojourner02]

We have just canceled our Viking star 17 day cruise in February 2024. 10 days at sea and we do Not want to spend them with dogs on board, sitting on dining chairs, etc. Thanks for letting us know.

[biggerbearmom]

2 hours ago, Sojourner02 said:

We have just canceled our Viking star 17 day cruise in February 2024. 10 days at sea and we do Not want to spend them with dogs on board, sitting on dining chairs, etc. Thanks for letting us know.

I hope that you shared with Viking the reason for your cancellation. We did the Panama Canal in February, I am glad that we did it before finding about about the dog issue.

[cruisinchrissy]

8 hours ago, Sojourner02 said:

We have just canceled our Viking star 17 day cruise in February 2024. 10 days at sea and we do Not want to spend them with dogs on board, sitting on dining chairs, etc. Thanks for letting us know.

You can’t avoid ‘official’ service dogs on any cruise line you book. They have a right to travel. So no more cruises for you . I have cruised for years and have never met a dog on board, except for Karine Hagen’s  on the Chairmans cruise and they were kept well away from everyone sadly, as I wanted to meet them. 

 

[photopro2]

1 hour ago, cruisinchrissy said:

You can’t avoid ‘official’ service dogs on any cruise line you book.

That is true, and as it should be.

However, unlike some other cruise lines, Viking do not seem to have published their policies detailing what behaviour they consider inappropriate or unacceptable for service animals.

I did ask where these might be found on post 234 but no answer has been forthcoming so far.

It does not seem unreasonable for customers to wish move away from a cruse line where they have no idea to what extent the company mandates how a service animal will be expected to behave, towards one who has clear published guidelines. 

Unfortunately, the behaviour of the passengers on any alternative cruise line would still remain to be seen 😉

[molymoo]

12 hours ago, Sojourner02 said:

We have just canceled our Viking star 17 day cruise in February 2024. 10 days at sea and we do Not want to spend them with dogs on board, sitting on dining chairs, etc. Thanks for letting us know.

Really?!?  Seems like a serious overaction to this relatively isolated incident (not that you're alone in this) ... perhaps you were going to have to cancel anyway ?

 

[CCWineLover]

6 hours ago, cruisinchrissy said:

You can’t avoid ‘official’ service dogs on any cruise line you book. They have a right to travel. So no more cruises for you . I have cruised for years and have never met a dog on board, except for Karine Hagen’s  on the Chairmans cruise and they were kept well away from everyone sadly, as I wanted to meet them. 

 

I really don't think people want to "avoid ‘official’ service dogs on any cruise".  They do have the right to travel.  We've experienced several "real" service dogs and they have been well trained and quite commendable in their duties.

 

You missed the issue here - it is the emotional support animals that are being brought aboard and "passing" as Service Animals (likely with false documents of certification as a service animal, which is quite easy to get, especially in Florida).  And then the dog owner's faults for letting their dogs operate as if they are home (see all the posts in this thread) without heed to any rules of conduct.  And then the Viking Ship's failures to police these bad behaviors.

So really it starts first with Viking - putting a definitive policy out on behaviors not allowed and punishments/penalties that will be enacted.  No bluffing.  And having passengers attest to it.  And then Viking educating the staff to have the courage to enforce those penalties.

This is because you won't change passenger behavior.  People will get away with whatever they can IMHO.

Viking is now saying, perhaps after seeing the huge volume of complaints, that  they will change and enforce the policies along with educating staff.  We shall see if they actually do, if and when we ever hear of a penalty being enforced.

Edited April 6, 2023 by CCWineLover