Is Royal Caribbean building any small ships?

[Hoopster95]

2 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Technically, the Royal Caribbean Group is building smaller ships.  The Celebrity Edge class has ~3000 passengers.  So roughly Voyager class size.  

 

And Silverseas new ships are sub 1000 passengers.

 

The focus on this thread has been RCI, not RCG.

[alfaeric]

54 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

The focus on this thread has been RCI, not RCG.

At least there are options for smaller new ships.  I can't see RCI making a new ship much smaller than than a Quantum ship.  Doesn't make economic sense.

[Chiliburn]

There is some evidence of Project Discovery,if anyone doesn’t know that’s Royal Caribbean’s small ship project.

Robbie Matheison posted this on another social media group.

This fellow has been working on it.

 

 

[notscb]

On 12/21/2023 at 4:32 AM, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Do smaller ships make enough profit for Royal? 

I think the answer to this question, specifically, has to be yes otherwise they would have offloaded their smaller fleet to the scrapyard during Covid like other lines did. Plus, Royal brought them back into service post-covid.

 

I think the next question you posed is interesting- the margins and returns on the larger ships must be better for Royal overall or they wouldn't keep building bigger. Granted, they keep sending these mega ships to Perfect Day which just adds so much to their bottom line, too. I'm also thinking about how the A380 didn't take off - while not a perfect comparison, the bigger the plane the bigger the expenses. I wonder if Royal has hit their limit when it comes to returns with the new Icon class (i.e. pax/expense ratio). 

 

I'm thinking the returns on the smaller ships must be less but maybe more consistent if they are easier to fill to capacity.

[Another_Critic]

3 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

If anyone wishes to see what "smaller" ships need to charge their customers in order to make the same profit margins as what Royal is making (let's perhaps call it a cruise industry average), take a look at what Oceania, Azamara and SilverSea charge. Are you willing to pay that? If you want Royal to build a small ship, that is what you will have to pay. 

The rumored "small" RCI ships are going to most likely be 3x the size and 4x the passenger capacity of Azamara.

[latebuyer]

Someone mentioned you want to hook people in with crown and anchor points. Well after kids are grown and you are retired or even before might you want a small ship and might royal caribbean want to capture the market as well.

[Charles4515]

25 minutes ago, latebuyer said:

Someone mentioned you want to hook people in with crown and anchor points. Well after kids are grown and you are retired or even before might you want a small ship and might royal caribbean want to capture the market as well.

When people grow up, when they have no kids and when they retire it is time to move on from Royal Caribbean. Royal Caribbean is a family oriented brand. Celebrity is a good first move up.  That is probably why the Royal Caribbean Group gives a status match. 
 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Charles4515

[Hoopster95]

Who remembers Project Genesis? How about project Sunshine, and Project Eagle?

And for how long before the actual official announcement were any rumours. and how long after after the official announcement were they actually built and in service?

 

For me, Discovery does not exist. I suspect there will be 4-5 more Icon Class ships built until approximately 2030 before we have confirmation of anything else..

 

2 hours ago, Another_Critic said:

The rumored "small" RCI ships are going to most likely be 3x the size and 4x the passenger capacity of Azamara.

 

I know.... And this has nothing to do with the point I was making anyways

 

4 hours ago, alfaeric said:

I can't see RCI making a new ship much smaller than than a Quantum ship.  Doesn't make economic sense.

 

This is exactly the point I was making.

[Charles4515]

38 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

For me, Discovery does not exist. I suspect there will be 4-5 more Icon Class ships built until approximately 2030 before we have confirmation of anything else..

I suspect you are right since they already have 3 on order by I think 2027. Financially it would not make sense to stop at 3 to pay off. I doubt that any Project Discovery ships if they happen will be smaller than Quantum class. More likely they will be of similar size to Quantum class but use the alternative fuel. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Charles4515

[latebuyer]

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

When people grow up, when they have no kids and when they retire it is time to move on from Royal Caribbean. Royal Caribbean is a family oriented brand. Celebrity is a good first move up.  That is probably why the Royal Caribbean Group gives a status match. 
 

I can't afford celebrity so its certainly not good for everyone. Even families will get tired of the big ships eventually. Less variety isn't a good thing for everyone. Sounds like royal caribbean will be the mcdonalds of the high seas 

Edited December 31, 2023 by latebuyer

[PhillyFan33579]

4 hours ago, latebuyer said:

Someone mentioned you want to hook people in with crown and anchor points. Well after kids are grown and you are retired or even before might you want a small ship and might royal caribbean want to capture the market as well.

RCG already has a significant portion of that market with Celebrity. I am in my late 50s and retired a little over a year ago. While I still cruise most often with RCI, I have 5 cruises booked on Celebrity over the next several months and will likely continue to book Celebrity more often in the future. 

[steveru621]

Focusing on families is great for June, July, and August.  What about the other nine months?

[DragonOfTheSeas]

1 hour ago, steveru621 said:

Focusing on families is great for June, July, and August.  What about the other nine months?

I was thinking of something similar.  The 3/4/5/7 night cruises--especially in the summer are full of families.  I am sure they are big money makers. However, late fall and winter does not have that many families.  

 

DH and I took our first 3 night cruise from FLL last spring.  We booked it to match with another cruise that left the day that cruise ended. [a side to side] The ship was full of adults getting their money's worth from drink packages and children everywhere. We won't be taking one of those again. 😜

 

It was the RCL regulars that kept the company afloat [pun intended] during the recession in the 2007-2009 and Covid timeframe.  RCL needs a diversified demographic for the long run.

[zebra36]

2 hours ago, steveru621 said:

Focusing on families is great for June, July, and August.  What about the other nine months?

Scholl considerations are a thing of the past, now many parents think nothing of taking the kids out of school for a vacation plus homeschooling is becoming more prevalent. Those 3 and 4 day year round sailings out of Florida will still be full of families regardless of when they sail.

[steveru621]

Just now, zebra36 said:

Scholl considerations are a thing of the past, now many parents think nothing of taking the kids out of school for a vacation plus homeschooling is becoming more prevalent. Those 3 and 4 day year round sailings out of Florida will still be full of families regardless of when they sail.

That may be a solution for some ships.  

[alfaeric]

10 minutes ago, steveru621 said:

That may be a solution for some ships.  

For cruises less than 8 days, which big ship is it not working on?  

[steveru621]

4 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

For cruises less than 8 days, which big ship is it not working on?  

 

Two that I have been on are Anthem and Odyssey.  

 

Airfare is expensive; flying a family of 4 to Florida is often just as expensive as a cruise. Is four days worth the expense?

 

Schools are cracking down on absent students. Remote schooling was the Covid era.

 

Sure, there are kids during the fall/winter/spring; most are pre-school.

[latebuyer]

I also don’t know if its been considered if this is what gen z and millenials want? I thought there’s a lot that don’t even have kids. Not sure what their view of these big ships is.

[Charles4515]

9 minutes ago, latebuyer said:

I also don’t know if its been considered if this is what gen z and millenials want? I thought there’s a lot that don’t even have kids. Not sure what their view of these big ships is.

 Those ships have something for everyone not just families. Alot of glitzy venuses and places to drink and have fun and they stay open late. Way after my bedtime.....

 

You said Royal Caribbean was what you could afford. The reason might be because the larger ships mean more profit per passenger. I have to say though that I having cruised on both Celebrity and Royal Caribbean and had a wide range of fares I did not think there was much difference in the cruise fares. 

[alfaeric]

58 minutes ago, steveru621 said:

 

Two that I have been on are Anthem and Odyssey.  

 

Airfare is expensive; flying a family of 4 to Florida is often just as expensive as a cruise. Is four days worth the expense?

 

Schools are cracking down on absent students. Remote schooling was the Covid era.

 

Sure, there are kids during the fall/winter/spring; most are pre-school.

You've been on them and they are empty?  Or just that you've been on them?

 

Not sure if you've tried to book a cruise recently, but ships are more sold out than not, especially the Oasis class ships and very especially the Icon.  Which are the very family centric ships.  We were just on the Symphony before Christmas and it had a lot of kids for both weeks, and prior to that were 3/4 on the Liberty- again, lots of kids.  

 

Seems to me the massive ships to attract families is working pretty darned well considering how expensive they are to get just a handful of cabins.

[steveru621]

2 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

You've been on them and they are empty?  Or just that you've been on them?

 

Not sure if you've tried to book a cruise recently, but ships are more sold out than not, especially the Oasis class ships and very especially the Icon.  Which are the very family centric ships.  We were just on the Symphony before Christmas and it had a lot of kids for both weeks, and prior to that were 3/4 on the Liberty- again, lots of kids.  

 

Seems to me the massive ships to attract families is working pretty darned well considering how expensive they are to get just a handful of cabins.

 

We are missing each other's comments.  There were very few children on Anthem and Odyssey.  Those few families on the ships were pre-school kids.

 

We have been on 22 full cruises since COVID.  Very few children because we go on extended cruises and do not go on 3-4-5 day cruises.  I believe 4-day cruises are to hide the out-of-sight cruise fares.

 

RCI cannot focus only on families for nine months of the year.  

 

 

[alfaeric]

17 minutes ago, steveru621 said:

 

We are missing each other's comments.  There were very few children on Anthem and Odyssey.  Those few families on the ships were pre-school kids.

 

We have been on 22 full cruises since COVID.  Very few children because we go on extended cruises and do not go on 3-4-5 day cruises.  I believe 4-day cruises are to hide the out-of-sight cruise fares.

 

RCI cannot focus only on families for nine months of the year.  

 

 

If cruises are full, who cares if there are kids on them and the "strategy"?  Full is full.

 

I know we sail Oasis ships because we like the ships.  Never have had kids.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by alfaeric

[steveru621]

6 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

If cruises are full, who cares if there are kids on them and the "strategy"?  Full is full.

 

I know we sail Oasis ships because we like the ships.  Never have had kids.

 

 

 

We agree!

[alfaeric]

1 hour ago, steveru621 said:

 

We agree!

I'm still wondering what ships the strategy isn't working for.  Even the ships you mentioned, they were full, so the "off season" when the kids are in school doesn't seem to matter much.

[Another_Critic]

8 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

I'm still wondering what ships the strategy isn't working for.  Even the ships you mentioned, they were full, so the "off season" when the kids are in school doesn't seem to matter much.

But, aren't ALL the ships, including the "small" ones, full?