Silly MDR question

[AroundWithMAPTravels]

Last week was first time on a HAL ship, Zaandam. I was puzzled by the antiquated use of paper (with carbon copies) for dinner orders in MDR.  For many years the other ships I have been on have used digital devices to track orders.( this also helped track dietary restrictions as well… no salt, GF, etc). My question is do all HAL ships use this antiquated method, or just the “older” ships, like Zaandam?
 

[3rdGenCunarder]

I think all the ships do it.  I'm pretty sure they did it that way on Eurodam. I can't remember what the newest ships do. They don't take the slips of paper to the kitchen like an old-fashioned diner. I believe they enter the orders at a terminal at the waiter station. I've seen waiters check the papers to verify that the orders are correct, so maybe that's why they keep that system. 

[POA1]

Paper... antiquated? Say... You must be from outside the core demographic. 😉

[SilvertoGold]

HAL has used tablets on and off but the waiters have said the system doesn't work well all the time. They do use the tablets once in and while.   Paper and then imputing into the waiter station computers works perfectly.

[Banditswife]

Yes, I think they write our orders down on paper, then input them into the system.  It is probably difficult to remember everything people have asked for, so the paper copy probably helps.  I know I would never keep 6-10 people's orders straight.  

[AroundWithMAPTravels]

I should be within the core demographics….😄

It more that since 2010 I have seen the use of tablets/phones/etc for MDR on other ships…. The carbon  paper system was just such a leap back in time.  🙃

waitstaff used same digital system for tracking orders and dietary needs.   
have never had an issue.

just made me shake my head…. And say “oh well, if it works …. “. 

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, SilvertoGold said:

HAL has used tablets on and off but the waiters have said the system doesn't work well all the time. They do use the tablets once in and while.   Paper and then imputing into the waiter station computers works perfectly.

 

Function wins out over form?

[Torquer]

On NS in June, our waiter used a tablet device for our orders.  However, the waiter at the next table used a pad of paper.  So it may be up to what the waiter's preference is.

[CruiserBruce]

Not worried about how they take my order. Just want it to be correct upon delivery.

[SilvertoGold]

35 minutes ago, Torquer said:

On NS in June, our waiter used a tablet device for our orders.  However, the waiter at the next table used a pad of paper.  So it may be up to what the waiter's preference is.

 

35 minutes ago, Torquer said:

On NS in June, our waiter used a tablet device for our orders.  However, the waiter at the next table used a pad of paper.  So it may be up to what the waiter's preference is.

I've seen the same thing.  If the system is working well, some like it. Others have said they don't like to have to switch between the two methods.

[Crew News]

When MDR tablets were first introduced by HAL, waiters learned quickly that passenger changes to the standard order were a problem (no peas, half portion, double potatoes, extra gravy, no carrots in salad, etc.) could not be accommodated.  In addition, if one person at a table for eight wanted to change their order, every order needed to be reentered. Paper ordering allowed waiters to add notes to those plating the order.

 

Tablets worked well for the Wine Stewards because there were no options when ordering wine.  Not sure if MDR waiters still use them now for wine orders.

[Cruisercl]

20 hours ago, AroundWithMAPTravels said:

Last week was first time on a HAL ship, Zaandam. I was puzzled by the antiquated use of paper (with carbon copies) for dinner orders in MDR.  For many years the other ships I have been on have used digital devices to track orders.( this also helped track dietary restrictions as well… no salt, GF, etc). My question is do all HAL ships use this antiquated method, or just the “older” ships, like Zaandam?
 

IMO, unless technology is 100% we will always have paper. Many issues with tech systems failing in many areas not just in the MDR on a cruise ship. Everyone has pretty much had a IT failure so paper back-up is needed, especially in a business.

Good question though. Less paper would be better for the environment but crusielines are usually very good about recycling.

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, Cruisercl said:

IMO, unless technology is 100% we will always have paper. Many issues with tech systems failing in many areas not just in the MDR on a cruise ship. Everyone has pretty much had a IT failure so paper back-up is needed, especially in a business.

Good question though. Less paper would be better for the environment but cruiselines are usually very good about recycling.

 

I worked in publishing for many years. Back in the 80s, when we first got PCs (standalone desktops, not connected to anything), our managing editor went to a tech conference. He came back like a preacher at an old-time revival meeting--throw away your crutches and walk! Only this time it was throw away your paper and pencils and use your computer for everything! We were still paper-based for a long time after that. 

 

The problem with the tablets for waiters is that it's easy to flip through pages on a pad. Tech often requires working through a series of screens, which is annoying and time-consuming. And it would be HAL's tech--cuneiform would be more reliable!

[FlaMariner]

Sometimes a pen and paper is the most efficient method......

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

Sometimes a pen and paper is the most efficient method......

 

Often times ...........

[Hlitner]

It is interesting to compare to how Seabourn handles orders (in all their venues).  The waiters use a tablet to immediately input orders.  Once the orders are prepared, they are immediately delivered to the waiter's stations by other staff (you might call them assistant waiters) or, in some cases, directly to the table.  So, for example, if I am in the Colonnade (Seabourn's Lido which also has some table service), our waiter will quickly put in an order for a French Press (one option for fresh coffee) and DW's tea, and within a few minutes another server will appear at our table with the order.  This means that the waiters are always visible (if you have issues, requests, etc) and food does not sit in the galley waiting to be picked-up.  It seems like a much more efficient system.  The tables also allow the waiters to add specific requests (such as for "crispy bacon" at breakfast) or "sauce on the side," etc.  

 

In the galley, the orders are electronically received and displayed on various monitors...again limiting the use of any paper.  

 

Hank

[deliver42]

Give me a pen and paper anytime. I'm so tired of the high tech that doesn't always work.

[AroundWithMAPTravels]

2 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Often times ...........

True, if the people using the system are of the same demographic of the passengers speed and efficiency of paper and pencil are best.

unfortunately (being a technology person, but a firm believer that many of the tried and true methods are best) I hate to admit that the crew demographic is much younger and tech-aware, therefore are used to and would prefer flipping through screens.

I don’t think HAL would need to create their own system (scary thought!) as I believe there are systems that can be purchased and only some customization for HAL menus would be required 

similarly to @Hlitner, I have seen digital menus that allowed for any specific requests to be included.  Which also appeared to work flawlessly.

The reason I initially posted the question was twofold… it seemed like a leap back in time, and I am not 100% sure that the carbon paper used is completely recyclable….I may be wrong on that last part, but I don’t think my local recycling center accepts it.

also, I was curious about older vs newer ships and if there is a difference.

all good thoughts being posted.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, AroundWithMAPTravels said:

True, if the people using the system are of the same demographic of the passengers speed and efficiency of paper and pencil are best.

unfortunately (being a technology person, but a firm believer that many of the tried and true methods are best) I hate to admit that the crew demographic is much younger and tech-aware, therefore are used to and would prefer flipping through screens.

I don’t think HAL would need to create their own system (scary thought!) as I believe there are systems that can be purchased and only some customization for HAL menus would be required 

similarly to @Hlitner, I have seen digital menus that allowed for any specific requests to be included.  Which also appeared to work flawlessly.

The reason I initially posted the question was twofold… it seemed like a leap back in time, and I am not 100% sure that the carbon paper used is completely recyclable….I may be wrong on that last part, but I don’t think my local recycling center accepts it.

also, I was curious about older vs newer ships and if there is a difference.

all good thoughts being posted.

 

Do they still have carbon paper? I must admit, I haven't looked closely, but I'm surprised to see carbon paper anywhere. They don't need multiple copies since they go to the computer and make an electronic copy right away. 

[kochleffel]

7 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

Only this time it was throw away your paper and pencils and use your computer for everything!

 

In the early 1980s I was working in an office that was switching from paper forms, later keyed in by data clerks, to terminals (not PCs) at every desk, and management crowed about "the end of paper." In reality, we consumed about ten times as much paper as before, because everyone could run printouts of everything, and did. Previously, it had been so hard to obtain reports (argue at length with someone who could write an order for one, and then wait days, if not weeks, to receive it) that we just did without them.

[HollDoll]

Hopefully it is personal preference.  A friend of mine is one of the most seasoned servers in the city. He has worked in fine dining venues for years. His choice is to take orders with paper and pencil because he has his own system.

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, AroundWithMAPTravels said:

True, if the people using the system are of the same demographic of the passengers speed and efficiency of paper and pencil are best.

 

 

 

Cut my teeth on technology with a 'suitcase" Kaypro in the 1970's. Compuserve connected us to that "internet thing" through a dial up.  Have been a participant on both personal and business levels with "technology" ever since. 

 

Today, it has become too glitchy and too time consuming to even be worth the time it takes to scroll through photos of other people's grand children. I have been a long observer of how it has changed fundamental human communication patterns. Often incoherent brevity combined with  curious urgency,  on top of endless seeking and scrolling no longer cuts it as "communication". It has become annoying work.

 

Since I am in your  alleged HAL demographics,  I can still remember when there was not even television. I miss a lot of the good old days, because much of it was good. Also currently reading Josh Hawley's "The Tyranny of  Big Tech". The world does need to hit the pause button.

[OlsSalt]

Correction - first Kaypro was in the 1980's - and I forced myself to learn tin commands from a crude mimeographed print out to connect with some user groups. WYSIWYG was just a dream at that point. Before the 1980's one had to build their own home computer from HeathKit, if you had a space big enough for it. CPM was state of art.

 

I will never forget my first "flaming" on the user group -opera.net. The question was asked - what is the most over-rated opera?

 

Saucily I replied to this group of anonymous strangers - "anything by Mozart". This triggered a few days of "flaming" and a timid note from one of the other opera.net members .....I think you just got flamed. Calling me online a "philistine nimrod" made me run for my dictionary. 

[RuthC]

It makes no difference to me how the table steward records what I order for dinner, and sends that message to the galley. 
What does matter is that he gets the order right, and what is served to me is precisely what I asked for. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, OlsSalt said:

Correction - first Kaypro was in the 1980's - and I forced myself to learn tin commands from a crude mimeographed print out to connect with some user groups. WYSIWYG was just a dream at that point. Before the 1980's one had to build their own home computer from HeathKit, if you had a space big enough for it. CPM was state of art.

 

I will never forget my first "flaming" on the user group -opera.net. The question was asked - what is the most over-rated opera?

 

Saucily I replied to this group of anonymous strangers - "anything by Mozart". This triggered a few days of "flaming" and a timid note from one of the other opera.net members .....I think you just got flamed. Calling me online a "philistine nimrod" made me run for my dictionary. 

 

Heath Kit!?!?!?! I haven't heard that in a long time. Dad used to buy components for something (not a computer) from them. 

 

I can't remember the first word processing program I used, but it was pre MS Word. It was not WYSIWYG, and every coding command (and textbooks have a LOT of that--ital, bold, etc) added characters that turned lines and screwed up line counts in manuscripts. I remember Word and Excel from the days before mice. Everything worked from the keyboard. I still remember "Esc Transfer Save," etc.