Nieuw Statendam - Israel War Breaking Out

[bennybear]

5 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

The best way of avoiding trouble is to avoid conflict zones. The entire region; Palestine, Red Sea, Persian Gulf is a conflict zone that has turned hot.

 

Reminds me of the Tet Offensive of 1968. Game changer.

Hindsight is always 20/20.  Don’t think this is on the passengers.  As @Heidi13states one weighs the risks. 
 

Lots of concerns worldwide right now,  the straights of Taiwan for one.    We cancelled our cruise that included China in 2019 when they imprisoned the two Canadians.  
 

 

 

[sansterre]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

The best way of avoiding trouble is to avoid conflict zones. The entire region; Palestine, Red Sea, Persian Gulf is a conflict zone that has turned hot.

 

Reminds me of the Tet Offensive of 1968. Game changer.

Thinking of the Grand World cruise scheduled to be in that area in April 2024.  Three ports in Israel planned:  Eliat, Ashdod, and Haifa.  Hopeful the war ends and peace returns to the area.  Ports can change, but The Red Sea is a necessary route.

Overall, my heart is with all those injured, missing, or held hostage.

[alibabacruisers]

Prayers to everyone!

[syesmar]

4 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

...If information was readily available that Tel Aviv was under rocket attack and the "Iron Dome" defenses had failed to intercept all incoming rockets, I'll suggest no tours would have headed south, but local Haifa, Caesarea National Park and possibly Nazareth/Galilee tours would have gone ahead, until the Ministry of Tourism shut them down.

+ If it had not been Shabbat, Saturday, there would almost certainly have been more independent travelers, with a number taking the train and/or public buses. Grateful everyone made it back onboard as quickly as they did.

Edited October 10, 2023 by syesmar

[syesmar]

5 hours ago, Laminator said:

I just checked in for an upcoming cruise in early November. HAL asks for a secondary phone number. You have the ability to opt in for text messages to be received at that secondary number. I would recommend everyone do so. This is why being a frequent traveler I have TMobile. I don't have to worry about roaming charges when I am out of the country. 

Great to hear! Last cruise I bought an inexpensive (less than $30 for a month's worth of calls and far more internet than I needed) SIM card from Amazon that had full coverage for our European ports to put in an older phone of mine. I will never again travel without a phone plan. It really made a difference with some logistics and spur-of-the-moment changes.

 

The morning of arrival, a call was picked up onboard (as we were arriving into Amsterdam and not far from land) from American Airlines informing me that our flight was cancelled. (Note: they also called my emergency contacts for some reason, glad they didn't intervene and let me handle things myself.😃)

 

[pixiedustdawn]

20 hours ago, CNSJ said:

Thank you for the clarity on the recall decision.

 

However, it was clear enough that I could see IAF jets at high speed flying north to south over Haifa area.  You are correct, they were not “right over ship” - but from the jogging track on Deck 11, you could hear and see them. 

True

[Heidi13]

22 hours ago, sansterre said:

Thinking of the Grand World cruise scheduled to be in that area in April 2024.  Three ports in Israel planned:  Eliat, Ashdod, and Haifa.  Hopeful the war ends and peace returns to the area.  Ports can change, but The Red Sea is a necessary route.

Overall, my heart is with all those injured, missing, or held hostage.

 

Negative on the Red Sea being a necessary route. With an extensive itinerary change the ship can round the Cape of Good Hope. During the years the Canal was closed all ships used this route or doubled back through Panama.

[HappyInVan]

13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Negative on the Red Sea being a necessary route. With an extensive itinerary change the ship can round the Cape of Good Hope. During the years the Canal was closed all ships used this route or doubled back through Panama.

 

 

Good comment.

 

Look on the bright side. The cruises will substitute a Safari itinerary for a Mediterranean itinerary. Not necessarily a bad thing as many have cruised the Med but not Africa.

 

Life goes on. The important thing is NOT to roll the dices when the underlying problems are so emotional and intractable.

[pmjnh]

On 10/7/2023 at 12:58 PM, birdie16 said:

Personally, I would rather take my chances with the ship medical team, then get stuck there.

I agree..the hospitals in that regions are bracing for the worst. I would not want to be left behind in that region.

[LouChamp]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Good comment.

 

Look on the bright side. The cruises will substitute a Safari itinerary for a Mediterranean itinerary. Not necessarily a bad thing as many have cruised the Med but not Africa.

 

Life goes on. The important thing is NOT to roll the dices when the underlying problems are so emotional and intractable.

There is no bright side in war.

[alwaysfrantic]

On 10/9/2023 at 9:01 AM, CNSJ said:

On N. Statendam-

 

it seems the rockets started flying at about 6:30 am as we docked.  At 7am we started to depart ship and our bus for HAL tour started at 8.  Not sure why they allowed buses to depart.  If they had held us, the first groups - we could have left within an hour or so. 

 

my guess is HAL leadership had to be woke up and approve recall and departure.  
 

I don’t think US State dept put out a notice until around 8:30.  But HAL should have recalled quicker than the notice we got at 10am on a HAL tour.

 

I will recommend to HAL they invest in a notification system to send texts to all passengers in the event of an emergency.  All passengers should provide a number and have phones on ashore.  Quick way to recall for ANY emergency. 

 

 

I know folks who refuse to pay the $10 a day in port to take the phone out of airplane mode. 
 

There will probably never be a perfect way to recall everyone, unfortunately.  

[CNSJ]

22 hours ago, alwaysfrantic said:

I know folks who refuse to pay the $10 a day in port to take the phone out of airplane mode. 
 

There will probably never be a perfect way to recall everyone, unfortunately.  

With US AT&T is a max of ten charges per billing cycle.  I don’t have to hunt for Wi-Fi and I can tether my laptop when I want to.

 

Phone connectivity at $10 a day is a small price for some piece of mind.  Considering the cruise is about $400 a day…. Not a big deal to me.

[alwaysfrantic]

1 minute ago, CNSJ said:

With US AT&T is a max of ten charges per billing cycle.  I don’t have to hunt for Wi-Fi and I can tether my laptop when I want to.

 

Phone connectivity at $10 a day is a small price for some piece of mind.  Considering the cruise is about $400 a day…. Not a big deal to me.

I agree.  I use my phone as normal off the ship.  But I said I knew people who would not.  Likely some folks don’t have phones that would even connect outside the US.  Between those, the ones who refuse to pay $10, and the ones who pride themselves on disconnecting and connect to come here to tell us us about it, a ship can never reach everyone in an emergency.  
 

it really sounds like HAL did a great job in this case.  I’d like to think if I heard bombs my inclination would be to get back to the ship immediately.  And to call the ship…again, another reason to have an operational phone!

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, alwaysfrantic said:

I agree.  I use my phone as normal off the ship.  But I said I knew people who would not.  Likely some folks don’t have phones that would even connect outside the US.  Between those, the ones who refuse to pay $10, and the ones who pride themselves on disconnecting and connect to come here to tell us us about it, a ship can never reach everyone in an emergency.  
 

it really sounds like HAL did a great job in this case.  I’d like to think if I heard bombs my inclination would be to get back to the ship immediately.  And to call the ship…again, another reason to have an operational phone!

 

You forgot to mention those of us that don't wish to have one of those infernal cell phones. Having had to live with one 24/7/365 during my working life, using well > 1,000 mins per month, I haven't used one of them since I retired 11 years ago.

 

Managed to go around the World 3 times, complete a couple African safaris + lots of other travel, all without a phone.

 

Rather than being swayed by a single incident, a more effective strategy is to complete a risk analysis, looking at the big picture, to determine needs. Weighing the potential consequences with the frequency of occurrence. The potential consequence is missing the ship and being stuck in Haifa, until finding a flight out. Haifa does have an international airport so potentially no need to travel to Tel Aviv. Since it is not IDLH, at worst the consequence is moderate. Regarding probability, thousands of port calls are made, even in Israel, without incident, so the frequency is very low. Based on comparing the frequency and potential consequences, the risk is low. With a low risk, I see no need for purchasing a mobile phone. If you wish to mitigate the low risk, other equally effective strategies are available.

 

This could include only using shore-ex or a local tour operator. For your phone to assist in recalling you to the ship, you had to provide the number to the Purser's Office, well it is just as easy to provide the name and contact details of the tour company, as all guides carry one of those infernal phones.

 

We all make choices and since I am trained in risk analysis and have used it for many years as an operational Master, based on a very quick analysis, I see no requirement or benefit, of carrying a phone.

 

The roaming charge for Americans may be $10/day, but that is not consistent for all nationalities, as some of us could incur hundreds of dollars in roaming charges, should phones be turned on.

[bennybear]

Always personal choice, but along with that is personal responsibility.   DH was also on call,  one night three times we were woken.  Not fun.  
 

From my training in critical incident stress management I learned predict and prepare.   
 

We have been grateful to have a working phone on many occasions,  a family member hospitalized,  last minute tour changes,  an airline strike, hotel changes.…..  since no one can predict all possibilities, it’s best to be prepared.  

[Mary229]

2 hours ago, bennybear said:

Always personal choice, but along with that is personal responsibility.   DH was also on call,  one night three times we were woken.  Not fun.  
 

From my training in critical incident stress management I learned predict and prepare.   
 

We have been grateful to have a working phone on many occasions,  a family member hospitalized,  last minute tour changes,  an airline strike, hotel changes.…..  since no one can predict all possibilities, it’s best to be prepared.  

I agree.  So many people travel oblivious to the fact that they may need to make a snap decision to remove themselves from a bad situation.  I guess my many years of wilderness hiking and underground recreational mining make me realize you are “on your own” always. Of all the evacuations I have had I have have watched adults in sheer panic. That panic was simply a lack of consideration and preparedness not skill or strength.

 

a phone allows options - get one even if you only turn it on in an emergency situation.  You can program your phone to only sound a call if it is from specific source such as the ship

Edited October 14, 2023 by Mary229

[Laminator]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

You forgot to mention those of us that don't wish to have one of those infernal cell phones. Having had to live with one 24/7/365 during my working life, using well > 1,000 mins per month, I haven't used one of them since I retired 11 years ago.

 

Managed to go around the World 3 times, complete a couple African safaris + lots of other travel, all without a phone.

 

Rather than being swayed by a single incident, a more effective strategy is to complete a risk analysis, looking at the big picture, to determine needs. Weighing the potential consequences with the frequency of occurrence. The potential consequence is missing the ship and being stuck in Haifa, until finding a flight out. Haifa does have an international airport so potentially no need to travel to Tel Aviv. Since it is not IDLH, at worst the consequence is moderate. Regarding probability, thousands of port calls are made, even in Israel, without incident, so the frequency is very low. Based on comparing the frequency and potential consequences, the risk is low. With a low risk, I see no need for purchasing a mobile phone. If you wish to mitigate the low risk, other equally effective strategies are available.

 

This could include only using shore-ex or a local tour operator. For your phone to assist in recalling you to the ship, you had to provide the number to the Purser's Office, well it is just as easy to provide the name and contact details of the tour company, as all guides carry one of those infernal phones.

 

We all make choices and since I am trained in risk analysis and have used it for many years as an operational Master, based on a very quick analysis, I see no requirement or benefit, of carrying a phone.

 

The roaming charge for Americans may be $10/day, but that is not consistent for all nationalities, as some of us could incur hundreds of dollars in roaming charges, should phones be turned on.

I guess that means I should throw out the fire extinguisher I have in my home. Never used it and probably never will. But being a former LEO and having been at the actual scenes of where people lost their lives in fires I think I will choose to keep it. It's about preparedness. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Laminator

[Heidi13]

13 minutes ago, Laminator said:

I guess that means I should throw out the fire extinguisher I have in my home. Never used it and probably never will. But being a former LEO and having been at the actual scenes of where people lost their lives in fires I think I will choose to keep it. It's about preparedness. 

 

If you understood risk management, you would know that a fire extinguisher is a normal risk mitigation tool in a home. As a mariner, I have also received extensive fire fighting training, been involved in a number of fires and have used extinguishers both onboard ships and in a home.

 

Completing a risk analysis identifies the tools you require to mitigate the risks, so you are prepared. You may never use those tools, but they are available.

[Laminator]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

If you understood risk management, you would know that a fire extinguisher is a normal risk mitigation tool in a home. As a mariner, I have also received extensive fire fighting training, been involved in a number of fires and have used extinguishers both onboard ships and in a home.

 

Completing a risk analysis identifies the tools you require to mitigate the risks, so you are prepared. You may never use those tools, but they are available.

That's exactly why I always carry my cell phone. I may never need it in case of emergency but if I have it. Actually I have used it in case of emergency a few times. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Laminator

[Lakesregion]

8 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

You forgot to mention those of us that don't wish to have one of those infernal cell phones. Having had to live with one 24/7/365 during my working life, using well > 1,000 mins per month, I haven't used one of them since I retired 11 years ago.

 

Managed to go around the World 3 times, complete a couple African safaris + lots of other travel, all without a phone.

 

Rather than being swayed by a single incident, a more effective strategy is to complete a risk analysis, looking at the big picture, to determine needs. Weighing the potential consequences with the frequency of occurrence. The potential consequence is missing the ship and being stuck in Haifa, until finding a flight out. Haifa does have an international airport so potentially no need to travel to Tel Aviv. Since it is not IDLH, at worst the consequence is moderate. Regarding probability, thousands of port calls are made, even in Israel, without incident, so the frequency is very low. Based on comparing the frequency and potential consequences, the risk is low. With a low risk, I see no need for purchasing a mobile phone. If you wish to mitigate the low risk, other equally effective strategies are available.

 

This could include only using shore-ex or a local tour operator. For your phone to assist in recalling you to the ship, you had to provide the number to the Purser's Office, well it is just as easy to provide the name and contact details of the tour company, as all guides carry one of those infernal phones.

 

We all make choices and since I am trained in risk analysis and have used it for many years as an operational Master, based on a very quick analysis, I see no requirement or benefit, of carrying a phone.

 

The roaming charge for Americans may be $10/day, but that is not consistent for all nationalities, as some of us could incur hundreds of dollars in roaming charges, should phones be turned on.

Fully agree. I only use my cell phone while on ship for the clock. Do not need to receive the 15 - 20 scam calls every day when on vacation. As to being on shore. Any place where the local folks can and do mount the occasional bus or auto stop for wallets etc and pick pockets roam the port stops do not get my trade. I love the quiet of an almost empty ship while docked. That is a real vacation.

[Lakesregion]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

If you understood risk management, you would know that a fire extinguisher is a normal risk mitigation tool in a home. As a mariner, I have also received extensive fire fighting training, been involved in a number of fires and have used extinguishers both onboard ships and in a home.

 

Completing a risk analysis identifies the tools you require to mitigate the risks, so you are prepared. You may never use those tools, but they are available.

Howdo you manage to get the extingquisher past security to bring on board?

[Heidi13]

16 hours ago, Laminator said:

That's exactly why I always carry my cell phone. I may never need it in case of emergency but if I have it. Actually I have used it in case of emergency a few times. 

 

That's the benefit of employing risk analysis, as when determining mitigations, you often have more than 1 tool/option available, so you can select the one(s) that best meet your needs.

 

The same solutions don't work for everyone, which is when developing policies & procedures, the finite risk assessment is completed at each vessel/class of vessel, and the vessel specific procedures incorporated into a level 3 ship specific manual.