Israel Next week Voyager

[fizzy]

1 hour ago, kathy49 said:

 For just a "beach cruise" why not take one of the other options? 

It was not "just" a beach cruise to us. Time off from work, hotel and air purchased, pet sitter etc. on those dates. The option would have been a refund and we could have jumped on a quick flight to Cancun. That would have been an aggravating but better option at that point but it wasn't offered. It's great that you enjoy Cuba.

[cwn]

3 minutes ago, Sunprince said:

We are thinking alike! For cruises embarking in higher risk ports, why did a “plan b” not exist in advance? Designating an alternate embarkation port, emergency staffing plans, protocols re air changes, dealing with customers and cancellations etc. It boggles my mind that apparently none of this was in place, or even thought of.  I am no expert in running a cruise line, but this seems very obvious at least to me. 

How many times has this happened? Having to change the embarking port is very rare, it boggles the mind to think that a cruise line would have to go to the expense of having plan “B” in place if something happened. The passenger always pays and many are complaining now about being priced out of cruising. Piers are booked way in advance and are very extensive. Reserving buses, hotel rooms, personnel to work the list goes on, the cost adds up for a rare what if?

With only 7 days to do it, Regent got a new port, hotel space, airline seats and transport for the disembarking and embarking passengers. Don’t what the number of people actually using Regent air and hotel, but the report is about 600 made the cruise(happily or not) and not all used Regent air and hotel. I think the Voyager holds about 650. A few had to cancel the cruise at the last minute for illness etc, some who would not do the cruise because of the change, about 92% made the cruise…why would Regent go to extra expense for what if situation.

 

[cwn]

34 minutes ago, HotelSnob1 said:

We are in the ship now and service is fabulous, probably even more so. There was no problem at the port as we arrived independent and were on and in our suite at 3:20. Laundry washed, shore excursions booked, stewardess arrived and jotted down  our needs & habits, and luggage arrived shortly thereafter. Dinner & cocktails at Compass Rose.  We came upon some serious “weather” today while tendered - 47 mph in the afternoon … tenders were delayed in getting back to the ship …but they made it okay …  all good for us in the Voyager. Bon Voyage! 

So glad you made it safely to the ship and things are up to snuff on the Voyage. I am sure the crew will take good care of you. Saw the tender versus waves on another site. That was exciting I bet! Thanks for the good report.

[giustot]

1 hour ago, dabear said:

You're wrong. I am an attorney. Advertising does not create a contract. The words of an agreement create a contract. If one party reserves the right to change an itinerary & the other party agrees to it that's a binding contract. It may not be good marketing , but a contract is a contract.

I appreciate your input. My point is that what happened here amounts to much more than just a change in itinerary, such as substituting one Greek island for another. This is a completely different cruise. If a company wants to say "a contract is a contract" when they sold me a Holy Land cruise and provide a Greek isles cruise, I would say you breached that contract when you completely revised the cruise.

[rallydave]

12 minutes ago, giustot said:

I appreciate your input. My point is that what happened here amounts to much more than just a change in itinerary, such as substituting one Greek island for another. This is a completely different cruise. If a company wants to say "a contract is a contract" when they sold me a Holy Land cruise and provide a Greek isles cruise, I would say you breached that contract when you completely revised the cruise.

No breach of contract not even close. The terms and conditions as well as ticket contract are extremely cjear as Dabear stated. Non of the advertising etc is part of the contract. 
 

as a tv judge often says it is simply puffing. The contracts for all cruise lines are extremely clear and mostly alike and protect the cruise lines inside and out 

 

in fact if you want to take your issues to court be prepared to travel to a country other than the US as most cruise lines are incorporated outside the US as nd the same Ts & Cs. Clearly tell you where you have to sue so find yourself a foreign lawyer and see just how far you get before you have to stop as you are simply throwing god money away. 

[cwn]

16 minutes ago, giustot said:

I appreciate your input. My point is that what happened here amounts to much more than just a change in itinerary, such as substituting one Greek island for another. This is a completely different cruise. If a company wants to say "a contract is a contract" when they sold me a Holy Land cruise and provide a Greek isles cruise, I would say you breached that contract when you completely revised the cruise.

It you right to say what you think about this situation. It will not change the facts if you signed the cruise contract. It allows any and all changes regardless of what the cruise was called.
 

There are many hotel/resorts that have a no refunds if you don’t show up and they are open for business.

 

Slightly different I know and with cruises you DO have a sliding scale of refunds based on time. You need to look at any cruise itinerary as this is what we to hope to do but it all can change at any time. You usually have 90/120 days before sailing depending on the cruise to get your money back at that time you assume the risk at least under US law. 
If you are lucky you might get some FCC stick with the cruise if you cancel usually no such luck. At least that was what was happening during Covid in some cases

[Sunprince]

56 minutes ago, cwn said:

How many times has this happened? Having to change the embarking port is very rare, it boggles the mind to think that a cruise line would have to go to the expense of having plan “B” in place if something happened. The passenger always pays and many are complaining now about being priced out of cruising. Piers are booked way in advance and are very extensive. Reserving buses, hotel rooms, personnel to work the list goes on, the cost adds up for a rare what if?

With only 7 days to do it, Regent got a new port, hotel space, airline seats and transport for the disembarking and embarking passengers. Don’t what the number of people actually using Regent air and hotel, but the report is about 600 made the cruise(happily or not) and not all used Regent air and hotel. I think the Voyager holds about 650. A few had to cancel the cruise at the last minute for illness etc, some who would not do the cruise because of the change, about 92% made the cruise…why would Regent go to extra expense for what if situation.

 

Sounds like you are very happy about how Regent operates and how they manage customer interactions. Having a plan b in your back pocket does not cost a lot. Advanced planning and anticipation of future problems, does not cost a lot. I am not saying they need to secure and pay for hotels and docking in advance as a back up. But at least have a plan in place in the event that a problem occurs.

 

Would your opinion be different if you were on this cruise and treated like so many customers were trying to renegotiate air, cancellations etc?

[labonnevie]

1 hour ago, HotelSnob1 said:

We are in the ship now and service is fabulous, probably even more so. There was no problem at the port as we arrived independent and were on and in our suite at 3:20  

Glad you made it, enjoy every minute. 
One question please. We have heard that taxi drop off at the new Galataport is a looong way from the ship. As we have some mobility issues, is this true and how far/bad is it. Are there porters and/or wheelchairs available?

Also, while in Istanbul, did you need to use Turkish lira everywhere? Could you tip in euros or usd?

Thank you and again enjoy, you deserve it!

[dabear]

I won't repeat what Rallydave correctly said about contract law.

I am surprised how Sunprince has incorrectly interpreted Rallydave, cwn & my comments on the law of contracts. We are not "happy" of the outcome, but merely correcting previous posters incorrect analysis & comments.

BTW, if you read one of my previous comments, I have been in the exact situation when we were on a cruise with 3 nights of stops in Israel & was cancelled at the last minute for GREEK ISLANDS AS A SUBSTITUTE. WE WERE NOT HAPPY BUT UNDERSTOOD OUR LIMITED RIGHTS & CONSEQUENSES.

[cwn]

3 minutes ago, Sunprince said:

Sounds like you are very happy about how Regent operates and how they manage customer interactions. Having a plan b in your back pocket does not cost a lot. Advanced planning and anticipation of future problems, does not cost a lot. I am not saying they need to secure and pay for hotels and docking in advance as a back up. But at least have a plan in place in the event that a problem occurs.

 

Would your opinion be different if you were on this cruise and treated like so many customers were trying to renegotiate air, cancellations etc?

How do you know they didn’t have some idea what they could/do if Haifa was closed?

 

No my opinion would not change if we were on this cruise. I know the risk is ours and has been with every cruise since we started cruising almost 40 years ago. Cruises cost a lot of money but you assume the risk responcibility after final payment.
 

I think within 2/3 days they had a new schedule and were rebooking air for people. People still complained about Egypt and they changed those ports also. Someone posting here booked their new air and hotel right away. Regent was dealing with 100’s of people from all over the world. The process takes time. We don’t use Regent air and hotel because it is easier to get what we want doing it our selves.

 

We are not on this cruise but we are on the Grand Arctic that has a segment that includes those ports. We have many days with Regent. If you have followed my trip reports over the years we have had some issues butRegent is much more responsive to problems than the other two luxury lines we have sailed with. And as someone else said we like their over all product. We also do family cruises on Cunard and RCL and take the grandkids on short homeport carnival cruises

[lprp]

2 hours ago, CrushIt said:

UK/EU may have protections. But, my understanding from earlier posts is that they also pay a higher price for the cruise (I am open to being corrected)

I’ve previously tried checking US prices vs. UK, it was almost impossible due to the way the prices were quoted on the US Website. I think this might have changed with the advent of the new. Price policy. 
I did attempt it when we booked onboard last month. It seemed that there was little difference for the cruise only fare (on a like for like basis). We did however have a free (included) pre-cruise offer for Angkor Wat that was not available on the US site. The cruise consultant was surprised to see it.

The main differences seem to be that:

1) Included Transatlantic air is in Business Class for US, but only Economy for UK

2) UK deposit is higher - 20%, this is non-refundable. (Exception is the lower deposit for booking on board).

[dabear]

4 minutes ago, lprp said:

difference for the cruise only fare (on a like for like basis). We did however have a free (included) pre-cruise offer for Angkor Wat that was not available on the US site. The cruise

FYI, we did a 2 night post cruise to Anghor Wat just before the covid crisis. . Really amazing. Don't miss it.

[CrushIt]

On 10/10/2023 at 4:04 PM, Susan64 said:

Regent had the chance to do the right thing as other cruise lines did. FCC/ Refund 

Sometimes the right thing is not easy or cheap, but you see a company’s true colors 

If forcing a bunch of people who don’t want  sail, is their idea of a good decision, then I would never want to be with them in case of an emergency.  You see where there priorities are.

 

Regent had a chance to show its humanity, to people who are afraid, and chose a full ship instead 

I agree, Susanne, Not sure how full the Voyager is. As of last Wednesday morning, Regent was telling our TA that 85-90% were going on the cruise. We had not yet decided. So, we would have been counted in the 85-90%. And, what happened in the next four days is a mystery. 

I see that there are a lot of people who like to get into the weeds on the contract. There are s many rabbit holes to go down when discussing the legalities of following the strict letter of the contract. To us, it has never been a matter of contract law. It is, as you say, about doing the right thing for your passengers. And if they don’t, then they have exposed themselves for who they really are.

[labonnevie]

Just received the following re: our Nov 10 Navigator cruise. Safaga, Egypt is still unchanged, for now.

 

As a result of the tragic events currently taking place in Israel, we have made the decision to cancel Seven Sea Navigator’s scheduled calls to Jerusalem (Haifa) on November 15 and 16 and Jerusalem (Ashdod) on November 17.

 

To accommodate this change, the ship will now sail to the beautiful Greek destinations of Mykonos, Santorini, Heraklion and Rhodes on November 13, 14, 15 and 16, before visiting Limassol, Cyprus on November 17.

 

The modified portion of the itinerary is below:

 

Date	Port	Arrive	Depart
10-Nov	Istanbul, Turkey	Embark	6:00PM
11-Nov	Pergamum (Dikili), Turkey	10:00AM	7:00PM
12-Nov	Ephesus (Kusadasi), Turkey	7:30AM	5:00PM
13-Nov	Mykonos, Greece	8:00AM	6:00PM
14-Nov	Santorini, Greece	8:00AM	6:00PM
15-Nov	Heraklion (Crete), Greece	8:00AM	6:00PM
16-Nov	Rhodes, Greece	7:00AM	4:00PM
17-Nov	Limassol, Cyprus	10:00AM	6:30PM
18-Nov	Port Said, Egypt (TECHNICAL CALL)	9:30PM	11:59PM
19-Nov	Suez Canal	---	---
20-Nov	Aqaba, Jordan	7:00AM	8:00PM

RSSC.com will be updated shortly to reflect the updated itinerary.

Shore excursions in the new ports will be available to reserve online from October 24.

The safety and security of our guests, crew and the communities we visit is always our top priority and we appreciate your understanding during this fluid situation. We will continue to closely monitor the situation being reported in Israel and specific areas in the wider region, and have the flexibility to alter our itineraries to avoid areas of concern should the need occur.

[Pcardad]

29 minutes ago, CrushIt said:

I agree, Susanne, Not sure how full the Voyager is. As of last Wednesday morning, Regent was telling our TA that 85-90% were going on the cruise. We had not yet decided. So, we would have been counted in the 85-90%. And, what happened in the next four days is a mystery. 

I see that there are a lot of people who like to get into the weeds on the contract. There are s many rabbit holes to go down when discussing the legalities of following the strict letter of the contract. To us, it has never been a matter of contract law. It is, as you say, about doing the right thing for your passengers. And if they don’t, then they have exposed themselves for who they really are.

I think Voyager sailed with 603 out of what, 650? Not many no-shows.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Pcardad

[roninman]

2 hours ago, cwn said:

How many times has this happened? Having to change the embarking port is very rare, it boggles the mind to think that a cruise line would have to go to the expense of having plan “B” in place if something happened.

Businesses are always facing unforeseen events in the environment, from competition, to regulatory, to changing customer preference or demographics, to geopolitical events.  Part of any executive's job is managing risk, which means having contingency plans in place.  This should be S.O.P. for a well run business.

 

Based on anecdotes, this is very rare, but it has happened in living memory.

[cwn]

15 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

I think Voyager sailed with 603 out of what, 650? Not many no-shows.

That is  about 92% full.

 

Maybe managements plan worked fairly well. I don’t think any of us really knows what the head office plans for situations like this. We know on CC a couple didn’t make the cruise because of illness. Also some canceled.

Edited October 16, 2023 by cwn

[roninman]

2 hours ago, rallydave said:

No breach of contract not even close. The terms and conditions as well as ticket contract are extremely cjear as Dabear stated. Non of the advertising etc is part of the contract. 
 

as a tv judge often says it is simply puffing. The contracts for all cruise lines are extremely clear and mostly alike and protect the cruise lines inside and out 

 

in fact if you want to take your issues to court be prepared to travel to a country other than the US as most cruise lines are incorporated outside the US as nd the same Ts & Cs. Clearly tell you where you have to sue so find yourself a foreign lawyer and see just how far you get before you have to stop as you are simply throwing god money away. 

 

It would be up to a jury to decide what is puffery and what is misrepresentation, hypothetically speaking, but if the latter is found a contract can be voidable.   But if a foreign company is doing business in your geography, you can  bring an action against them locally.   If contracts were universally self-explanatory and self-executing, there would be no need for contract suits, and then where would we all be?  And of course not saying any of this applies here, and I'm certainly no lawyer.

 

The most reasonable takeaways seem to be:  a) Go on a cruise full of hope  b) Go on the cruise as a magical mystery tour and be surprised if it goes where it said, c) Book a cruise at the very last minute to ensure no pre-cruise changes,  d) Give up cruise vacations altogether.  

 

Since the contract is so heavily one-sided, as a minimum we should give up our hard-earned dollars with our eyes wide open.

 

 

 

 

[Pcardad]

2 minutes ago, cwn said:

That is  about 92% full. 

Yep...not that far out of the "normal" range for a ship that sold at 100%. Sometimes 100% show up....sometimes a good bit lower. 92% is a solid number given the circumstances.

[carMOM]

1 hour ago, labonnevie said:

Just received the following re: our Nov 10 Navigator cruise. Safaga, Egypt is still unchanged, for now.

 

As a result of the tragic events currently taking place in Israel, we have made the decision to cancel Seven Sea Navigator’s scheduled calls to Jerusalem (Haifa) on November 15 and 16 and Jerusalem (Ashdod) on November 17.

 

To accommodate this change, the ship will now sail to the beautiful Greek destinations of Mykonos, Santorini, Heraklion and Rhodes on November 13, 14, 15 and 16, before visiting Limassol, Cyprus on November 17.

 

The modified portion of the itinerary is below:

 

Date	Port	Arrive	Depart
10-Nov	Istanbul, Turkey	Embark	6:00PM
11-Nov	Pergamum (Dikili), Turkey	10:00AM	7:00PM
12-Nov	Ephesus (Kusadasi), Turkey	7:30AM	5:00PM
13-Nov	Mykonos, Greece	8:00AM	6:00PM
14-Nov	Santorini, Greece	8:00AM	6:00PM
15-Nov	Heraklion (Crete), Greece	8:00AM	6:00PM
16-Nov	Rhodes, Greece	7:00AM	4:00PM
17-Nov	Limassol, Cyprus	10:00AM	6:30PM
18-Nov	Port Said, Egypt (TECHNICAL CALL)	9:30PM	11:59PM
19-Nov	Suez Canal	---	---
20-Nov	Aqaba, Jordan	7:00AM	8:00PM

RSSC.com will be updated shortly to reflect the updated itinerary.

Shore excursions in the new ports will be available to reserve online from October 24.

The safety and security of our guests, crew and the communities we visit is always our top priority and we appreciate your understanding during this fluid situation. We will continue to closely monitor the situation being reported in Israel and specific areas in the wider region, and have the flexibility to alter our itineraries to avoid areas of concern should the need occur.

Interesting that they are not showing the second half of the cruise on the revised itinerary!  

[Kwaj girl]

10 minutes ago, carMOM said:

Interesting that they are not showing the second half of the cruise on the revised itinerary!  

 

Probably due to uncertainty with regards to Egypt today.  A very fluid situation.

 

[carMOM]

Yes indeed. Hopefully they will decide about its cancellation before we are all enroute to Istanbul and have little recourse but to go through with a cruise that looks nothing like the one we booked...like voyager is experiencing.

[forgap]

698 passengers on voyager according to the RSSC website. 

[rcandkc]

2 hours ago, Pcardad said:

I think Voyager sailed with 603 out of what, 650? Not many no-shows.

Voyager holds 698 guests according to website. 

[Pcardad]

Just now, rcandkc said:

Voyager holds 698 guests according to website. 

So fair to assume 10% or so skipped the cruise...