Gratuities Are Going Up Again, Effective 11.11.2023

[njkruzer]

Just now, not-enough-cruising said:

You have to have the pre paid intention added to your reservation prior to 11/11 to qualify for the current rate

That's not what it says or what we've done in the past.

[jean87510]

36 minutes ago, mramella said:

In the Gratuities Breakdown picture above, I noticed Dining Staff gratuities amount is $7.25 per day. We have the Unlimited Dining Package on our upcoming Icon cruise (March of '23), for which I've already paid the 18% gratuity. We do not plan to go to the MDR or the Windjammer. I think I might go ahead and remove the gratuities and give my Statement Attendant cash. That seems fair to me, since I've already paid 18% for the UDP.

Sounds fair to me.  

[Tree_skier]

15 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

That's not what it says or what we've done in the past.

The letter is poorly worded.  That is what is happening.

[JimInBuffalo]

Not good publicity or RCL

[bjlaac]

23 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

You raise a pertinent question: "Who in the 'other' gets that money?" It represents quite a large percentage of the charges. 

 

Similar to New Jersey State when they say a new tax or fee is "going into the general coffers."

 

The General Coffers is a euphemistic black hole that lacks any specific reason except for the politicians to go to it for their pet projects.

Yeah, here in CT they call it the rainy day fund and its always raining for stupid projects 😄

[bjlaac]

20 hours ago, skittl1321 said:

So even he doesn't know, which means he isn't reporting it.

Yeah, the calls get recorded; but the supervisors aren't listening to every single call to see what feedback was provided. So if the call representative isn't classifying and filing feedback, it's going nowhere.

And even when they do, it's often just 'noted'.  

Often there is a threshold of x% of calls are complaints about a single issue that a company then starts trying to figure out how to deal with that issue.  But often that is just better messaging around it, not fixing anything.

As someone who managed a large call center in the NY/NJ/CT area I can tell you exactly how those recorded calls are handled in the system.  Yes, every call is recorded in most robust systems and none of them are ever listened to unless there's a serious issue/complaint against the CSR (Customer Service Rep), the CSR is new and the manager is evaluating the employee or oversight teams are randomly listening in on live calls.

 

All CSRs end a call with a wrap code meaning they choose from a list of 20 codes in order for management to have daily/weekly/monthly list of why folks are calling.  That list is only as good as the CSR as sloppy reps will use the same 2 or 3 codes for every call regardless of the callers original issue.  Unless a particular category moves drastically, the list is rather useless in identifying a specific issue.  For instance, even if coded correctly 100% of the time, if RCL just raised gratuities and the codes about gratuities call up substantially, management will put the two pieces of information together and shrug it off as expected.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by bjlaac

[Engineroom Snipe]

3 minutes ago, bjlaac said:

  Unless a particular category moves drastically, the list is rather useless in identifying a specific issue.  for instance, even if coded correctly 1005 of the time, if RCL just raised gratuities and the codes about gratuities call up substantially, management will put the two pieces of information together and shrug it off as expected.

 

 

 

Your experience aligns with what I would expect. Unless it affects the bottom line, RCI would "...shrug it off as expected."

 

That is the reason I am holding on to my money for a while with current cruise pricing. Future bookings will only come down when future bookings do not meet their historical and projected quotas. By delaying my bookings, maybe I am helping others as well as myself.

 

As you present your case, calling and complaining has limited effect and will not change RCI's course.

[Realrunner]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:33 PM, Engineroom Snipe said:

Very interesting analysis and well presented. Thank you for your time and opinion on the matter.

 

What I am seeing and listening on this particular thread is not the average complaining and moaning that some others threads contain.

 

The opinions come from many thoughtful experienced cruisers who love cruising.

 

We are banging the drum as loud as we can to say to RCI: "You are crossing the loyal repeat customer lines...." .

 

I have only 7 days reserved for next year and none for 2025. Probably the first time in ten years where I did not have a minimum of 16 days per year booked well in advance.

 

I will be doing a review of the 8pm MDR on the Jewel one week from now (not live). I have not been impressed with dining for many years. I keep hoping for the best. I hope it is not once again mediocre "SYSCO" provided foods and sauces. So far, the food except in a few circumstances has been maybe a 6 out of ten at best for the last few years.

 

Reading these posts, I am not alone about "where is the money going" except to pay RCI shareholders after borrowing lots of money to survive the pandemic.

 

I had to provide for my family during the pandemic. I am not going to pay what I think are additional fees for new cruises just to "help RCI survive."

 

I am just standing on the sidelines for awhile to watch things unfold.

 

 

 

Will be interested in your feedback on the Jewel, as I was interested in your input.

 I will still not pay for a service from which I have not received yet but I will reward for good service above the call of duty which is what a gratuity is for.

 I also believe from what I am reading that RCCL have shot themselves in the foot, if they only said we are changing pricing structure and it’s up to the guest to give whatever for a tip the views might be different.

Lastly I hope the hierarchy are reading this.

[Mum2Mercury]

On 10/31/2023 at 3:21 PM, not-enough-cruising said:

I did not pay the old rate, I surely will not be paying the new rate.

So you -- and people like you -- are the problem.  

On 10/31/2023 at 4:22 PM, toad455 said:

I never prepay gratuities. I've had bad service in the dining rooms or a bad room steward in the past. If anything, I'll be less likely to tip extra at the end of the cruise now.

Speaking only for myself, I've never had bad service onboard.  I don't have enough cabin service now, but that's not the same thing.  

On 10/31/2023 at 4:35 PM, vswan said:

In reality a $2 pppd increase isn't going to break my budget ...

$2 sounds like so little ... but when it's really $2 x 7 days x 3 people, you're talking about $42.  I use those numbers because that's what we'll pay on our upcoming cruise.  Real money.  

On 10/31/2023 at 4:39 PM, Bruin Steve said:

I've NEVER deleted the automatic charges...and never will.  I truly believe a lot of the people who do that, even if they CLAIM to tip directly in cash DON'T...or, at a minimum, they undertip. 

I've never deleted the auto tips either, but I'm considering it for the first time.  The small increase -- coupled with a recent small increase + reduction in cabin service -- is the straw that breaks the camel's back.  I HATE the idea of tipping directly to the staff, as I feel sure someone'd be left out.  But I may do it.  

On 10/31/2023 at 4:39 PM, Bruin Steve said:

Do you folks who throw around dollar bills at the bar realize that they ALREADY ADD an extra 18% gratuity to every drink. 

Yeah, I think 18% is enough.  

On 10/31/2023 at 4:49 PM, RoyalC said:

So the people that remove grats do not tip at all? Not true

I suspect it's true for at least some people.  

On 10/31/2023 at 5:05 PM, nelblu said:

Don't think Americans would work those long hours.  There was a female influencer that complained on Tik Tok that the 9-5 and the five-day workweek is impacting her social life.🤣

I read that.  She's a special snowflake who 1) doesn't recognize she's in transition between student /child and worker /adult.  and 2) who doesn't grasp the big picture of how the work world works.  

On 10/31/2023 at 5:45 PM, iscruisingdunzo said:

But they shouldn't even be raising anything. They are making BILLIONS!

 

On 10/31/2023 at 5:53 PM, RoyalC said:

They leave families to do this.

Some like this, some don't.  

We honestly don't know whether they make "good money" or not. 

On 10/31/2023 at 6:22 PM, iscruisingdunzo said:

Lol. Nice try. Nowhere do they state on that page that gratuities are optional.

I guess tips are technically optional everywhere -- but what does it say about you if you don't pay people who serve you?  

On 10/31/2023 at 7:53 PM, OACAggie said:

How big will Mr. Liberty’s bonus be this year I wonder? He does know how to make money…short term. Long term, we’ll see. 

That's a good question.  I understand they have debt from the pandemic, but two increases + reduced service doesn't look good on them. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Mum2Mercury

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

So you -- and people like you -- are the problem.  

 

No, people like me are trying to force a fix to the problem. If people like me were the problem, then gratuities would remain constant on lines that do not allow one to "opt out", that clearly is not the case.

 

 I appreciate your viewpoint, but I firmly believe the blind acceptance of the constant, never ending, gratuity pool expansion, has to stop, and that begins with people taking a stand.

[Husky1987]

7 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

I've never deleted the auto tips either, but I'm considering it for the first time.  The small increase -- coupled with a recent small increase + reduction in cabin service -- is the straw that breaks the camel's back.  I HATE the idea of tipping directly to the staff, as I feel sure someone'd be left out.  But I may do it.

That's where I'm at as well.  Have always been a proponent of not removing the auto grats and also adding some extra cash to a few (bartenders, WJ staff, steward).  Honestly not really sure what I'll do on my next cruise.  

 

7 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

I suspect it's true for at least some people.  

I'd go as far as to say it's definitely true for some.  Those of us who have been cruising long enough remember before auto-grats the half-empty MDR on the last night of the cruise because people didn't want to face the wait staff they weren't going to tip.

[broberts]

What the letter should have said:

 

Dear Guest,

 

We are excited to welcome you onboard for your upcoming Royal Caribbean sailing!

 

As you prepare to set sail, we wanted to notify you of an update to our daily gratuity charges. Since we don't pay our onboard staff a living wage and have started having real problems attracting employees it's up to you to bail us out. As of November . . . 

 

We thank you for your understanding and can’t wait to welcome you onboard!

Sincerely,

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, broberts said:

What the letter should have said:

 

Dear Guest,

 

We are excited to welcome you onboard for your upcoming Royal Caribbean sailing!

 

As you prepare to set sail, we wanted to notify you of an update to our daily gratuity charges. Since we don't pay our onboard staff a living wage and have started having real problems attracting employees it's up to you to bail us out. As of November . . . 

 

We thank you for your understanding and can’t wait to welcome you onboard!

Sincerely,

They DO pay a living wage, and the crew are guaranteed this money, by international law.  

 

Royal just wants YOU to subsidize this salary, AND be able to advertise a lower price.

 

Do not allow them to play on your emotions, refuse to participate.

[yogimax]

8 minutes ago, Husky1987 said:

I'd go as far as to say it's definitely true for some.  Those of us who have been cruising long enough remember before auto-grats the half-empty MDR on the last night of the cruise because people didn't want to face the wait staff they weren't going to tip.

I'm sure it's not an either-or for those who remove tips.  My guess is that many who remove tips will give their room steward, waiter, etc. $20 bucks or so for the week and pat themselves on the back for their "generosity."

[Engineroom Snipe]

3 hours ago, Husky1987 said:

Those of us who have been cruising long enough remember before auto-grats the half-empty MDR on the last night of the cruise because people didn't want to face the wait staff they weren't going to tip.

@Husky1987 I have witnessed this on MANY cruises long ago. There were many fuming wait staff and it was an uncomfortable environment on that last night. I mostly noticed this absentee last night  from about 2002 to 2010 before My Time Dining but after they started to do Windjammer breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

 

What were your time periods of observation?

[margo2011]

3 hours ago, yogimax said:

I'm sure it's not an either-or for those who remove tips.  My guess is that many who remove tips will give their room steward, waiter, etc. $20 bucks or so for the week and pat themselves on the back for their "generosity."

Sorry but I disagree with you I have friends and family who have cruised since 2000 and tip more than the required amount .We like to tip for the service once we have received it .

[yogimax]

8 minutes ago, margo2011 said:

Sorry but I disagree with you I have friends and family who have cruised since 2000 and tip more than the required amount .We like to tip for the service once we have received it .

I'm sure some who remove tips ultimately tip generously.

 

My point was that a good number do not... thinking $20 is a good tip for a week of service.

[margo2011]

3 minutes ago, yogimax said:

I'm sure some who remove tips ultimately tip generously.

 

My point was that a good number do not... thinking $20 is a good tip for a week of service.

Sorry again but is this just conjecture on your behalf .Our first cruise was on the SS Norway in 2000 and we were sat with 4 Americans ,lovely company but  we were surprised when we asked what should we tip bearing in mind our waiter often flambé crepes and steaks ,served speciality coffees and liqueurs .They said the tips were included but we brought our envelopes on the last night and were pleased to see they did to .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nelblu]

4 hours ago, yogimax said:

I'm sure it's not an either-or for those who remove tips.  My guess is that many who remove tips will give their room steward, waiter, etc. $20 bucks or so for the week and pat themselves on the back for their "generosity."

Lots of Alligators and Crocs on this board.😆

[Morecruisesplz]

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

@Husky1987 I have witnessed this on MANY cruises long ago. There were many fuming wait staff and it was an uncomfortable environment on that last night. I mostly noticed this absentee last night  from about 2002 to 2010 before My Time Dining but after they started to do Windjammer breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

 

What were your time periods of observation?

So you assumed. But we always delivered tips before the final night and let waiters know we would not be there. Busy with packing and we eat light the night before traveling. Back then it was always turkey and didn't always sit well. So how many others did you make incorrect assumptions about?

[Mum2Mercury]

4 hours ago, Husky1987 said:

Those of us who have been cruising long enough remember before auto-grats the half-empty MDR on the last night of the cruise because people didn't want to face the wait staff they weren't going to tip.

Yes, I remember that, but it's not a sure-fire method of gauging who's tipping and who isn't.  My husband and I went to the Windjammer on the last night of our last-week cruise ... we auto-tipped before the cruise, so we weren't trying to skip out on anything.  We just decided we weren't all that interested in the MDR's menu for that last night.  

16 minutes ago, margo2011 said:

Sorry again but is this just conjecture on your behalf

Eh, yeah, but it's a pretty good guess.  Remember we have people on this board who BOAST about stiffing the staff who work hard to serve them all week -- people who even try to make it in to a virtue.  

[tottenhamfc]

58 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Yes, I remember that, but it's not a sure-fire method of gauging who's tipping and who isn't.  My husband and I went to the Windjammer on the last night of our last-week cruise ... we auto-tipped before the cruise, so we weren't trying to skip out on anything.  We just decided we weren't all that interested in the MDR's menu for that last night.  

Eh, yeah, but it's a pretty good guess.  Remember we have people on this board who BOAST about stiffing the staff who work hard to serve them all week -- people who even try to make it in to a virtue.  

Why is not paying extra “stiffing staff”. Just because the norm in your home country is over the top, it doesn't mean that its right. I have been doing both and now I have made my mind up to NOT tip extra. My only choice now is whether to remove grats and then pay out individually based on my experience. I do agree that to tip ahead of receiving service is silly and to tip as a bribe early on to get better service is plain wrong.

[Engineroom Snipe]

2 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

 I do agree that to tip ahead of receiving service is silly and to tip as a bribe early on to get better service is plain wrong.

 

I will admit, you also bring up an interesting point:

 

Do guest tip in advance as a bribe to get better service or more drinks at a lower or no price later in the cruise?

 

One can only observe at many bars across the world if this is successful.

 

The tipper is playing the odds that they will get more in return than they give.

 

We might disagree with each other on endpoints but I can appreciate the discussion.

[Mum2Mercury]

7 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

Why is not paying extra “stiffing staff”. Just because the norm in your home country is over the top, it doesn't mean that its right. I have been doing both and now I have made my mind up to NOT tip extra. My only choice now is whether to remove grats and then pay out individually based on my experience. I do agree that to tip ahead of receiving service is silly and to tip as a bribe early on to get better service is plain wrong.

No one's talking about tipping "extra" or above and beyond.  At least, I'm not.  

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

I will admit, you also bring up an interesting point:

 

Do guest tip in advance as a bribe to get better service or more drinks at a lower or no price later in the cruise?

 

One can only observe at many bars across the world if this is successful.

 

The tipper is playing the odds that they will get more in return than they give.

 

We might disagree with each other on endpoints but I can appreciate the discussion.

True enough. I think the general discussion has been useful as there is no right answer other than the model that RCL presents is not the correct one. I think they are turning guests off in all honesty and it is up to each individual to make their own decision.