Surcharges for drinks in Retreat Lounge

[HMR74]

24 minutes ago, Moby Jones said:

We're currently onboard Beyond with friends. A sailing we booked almost two years ago. And that's the question we have been discussing. My only conclusion is that their marketing team is aiming the Celebrity product at newer cruises who don't really understand the difference between cruise line categories. Celebrity looks upscale when compared to resort style lines like Carnival and NCL. It even looks upscale against the mainstream premium lines peers such as Cunard, Virgin and Princess. But these newbies probably haven't yet figured out how it can look very poor value compared to lux lines. And that said, newbies tend to be younger. And I'm not sure how appealing Silversea, Crystal and Regent to name but three are to young thirty somethings....

But going back to Celebrity, even the current incentives to book onboard are really pointless. 

So we'll be booking on of the 6^ lux lines too. At a great price comparatively speaking and more importantly, with a great itinerary. 

I mentioned the young 40 something's the other day. My kids with their grandkids.  And their friends.

Crusing is not ther thing. And they all have been  on plenty of cruises and going to Disney.

 

Next year 4 families are going to all inclusive. The kids  (grandkids) love the nice beaches and the parents love the luxury and service level. Plenty of activities.

 

We  headed off in our own direction cancelling a b2b2b retreat on Beyond and doing a land trip  to Greece,  the islands and Italy for 6 weeks. Admittedly it is a totally different approch and my wife was apprehensive but it turned out us folks in the mid 70's dealt  with everytihng and enjoyed the hell out of it. Yes, a slower pace than 40 years ago  but we built in low profile days. It was also 1/3 the cost of the cruise, which made us enjoy what we did even more.

 

Whats the punch line?

 X (for us) and RCL (Oasis in the past, Icon in the future,for the kids) loses a small percentage of their revenues.

 

X will lose some retreat passengers upgrading in ammenities and downgrading in price, Perhas more than some.

 

Since the business is a very high fixed cost business, they will need to be above the  full 100% occupancy (made possible by 4 in a cabin, or 6700 on Oasis meant for 4600 full double occupancy).

 

And the bottom line here is cash flow is going to be hard to improve from this point. And it has a lot of ship to pay for. 21 billion soon to be closer to 30 billion. Wtih higher interest rates.

 

The cruise lines are caught between the rock and hard place. The only alternative they see is cutting this and that and finding new or additional sources of revenue and they all are out of good ideas.

 

They have to think out of the box and they cannot.

 

Not entirely  their fault-the lockdowns did not help. the CDC (I think) seemed to go out if its way to prolong the shutdown for cruise lines. $$$$$. Food costs went up and have not moderated. The killer wil be when oil prices go back up to triple digit. 

 

Just my analysis of why thiis  drink problem is a problem-they all need more positive cash flow. And th eway I see it, it's not going to improve.

 

 

[phoenix_dream]

3 hours ago, richczarnecki said:

OK, so here is my latest conversation with Laura.  Seems like something is changing for the better, with Sunday's Ascent departure being the first to add more wine ("variety") choices under PBP (the date I sail).  But she still does not confirm that a Retreat menu item over the PBP limit will not be charged (as others have experienced).  So hopefully more (better?) choices within PBP in Retreat, but still an upcharge for Retreat menu items over $17.  BUT then she says this, which would seem to state that nothing on Pool Deck and Lounge menus is either (a) over $17 or (b) will not be upcharged.  Confused?  I shall see and report back . . .

 

From: Laura Hodges Bethge <lhodgesbethge@celebrity.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 11:41 AM
To: Richard 
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Retreat

 

Thank you for your note. I can assure you that on Ascent this weekend, in all three locations for the Retreat, there will more variety than in the past on the wine menu and those wines will be included in the premium package.

 

As I mentioned, as we have always had, in all locations around the ship, wines for an additional charge over and above the package are available if a guest would like them.

 

Laura Hodges Bethge

President, Celebrity Cruises

lhodgesbethge@celebrity.com

 

From: Richard 
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 11:59 AM
To: Laura Hodges Bethge <lhodgesbethge@celebrity.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Retreat

 

Thank you, Laura.  That's great to know!  But I still am unclear.  If I order wine off a Retreat menu with a premium package,  am I still understanding correctly that I will not be charged even if the menu price is above $17?  I believe you stated that here but other passengers are saying this is not accurate and that they are being charged.

 

Thanks again!  Rich

 

From: Laura Hodges Bethge <lhodgesbethge@celebrity.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 12:07 PM
To: Richard
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Retreat

 

Hi Richard—

 

All of the wines on the Retreat Pool Deck and in the Retreat Lounge are within the Premium Package, and those same wines are available in Luminae (given Luminae is a restaurant that list is more extensive). And, starting this weekend on Ascent we are adding more variety to that list of wines included in the premium packages– so that our Retreat guests have plenty to choose from. (It will be fleetwide by the end of the month).

 

There are additional wines available for an upcharge – that has not changed. Did we make some changes to inclusions in the classic and premium package, we did, and that will always continue to evolve and change based on guest preferences and inventory availability.

 

As I also mentioned, we are in the midst of reviewing, updating and adding breadth and depth to our wine menu. As you can imagine, these things do not happen instantaneously. We are excited to bring these new offerings to our guests in the next few months.

 

My very best, Laura

 

Laura Hodges Bethge

President, Celebrity Cruises

lhodgesbethge@celebrity.com

 

 

 

 

---

 

Thanks so much for posting this.  So my next question is - what about the rest of the ships??  All she talks about is Ascent, although she mentions new wines rolling out across the fleet..  Of course - newest ships always get the best of everything.  (ok I'll modify that with the statement that many great staff members choose to, or are assigned to, other ships)  If I take a copy of her note and bring it onboard my upcoming Equinox cruise will I still have to pay a surcharge for wines in the lounge or Retreat deck?!?!???  Why do I think the answer is yes.  Does she not realize that all the ships are still charging an upcharge in the lounge or deck?  Or is her plan to just remove the decent wines like Decoy and Conundrum from the lounge and the deck and just leave the $9.95 a bottle wines?

Edited January 9 by phoenix_dream

[Baynanno1]

6 hours ago, Susanb10567 said:

That is why we skipped that and went straight to dinner…our sommelier was able to find us wines we enjoyed that was included in the premium package…

 

Looks like we may well be having   l o n g   dinners, instead of pre and post drinks while socialising in Michael's.

[Baynanno1]

3 hours ago, richczarnecki said:

 

Hi Richard—

 

All of the wines on the Retreat Pool Deck and in the Retreat Lounge are within the Premium Package, and those same wines are available in Luminae

 

There are additional wines available for an upcharge – that has not changed.

 

---

 

Thanks for posting - I look forward to your report from your cruise.

 

Proof reading does not seem to happen these days!

Did she realise that she contradicted herself with the above statements?

 

All the wines on the Retreat Deck and in the Retreat Lounge are within the Premium Package.

In the next paragraph :

There are additional wines available for an upcharge.

 

Obviously not all included within the Premium Package, as has been reported and continues to be reported by current cruisers.

[jmdlv1]

1 hour ago, JDPCruisers said:

Will be interested in what you decide on as we are looking but have yet to make a change. 

I'm locked in W/Celebrity on my 3/16 sailing in a RS.

My 1/3 2025 sailing is probably going to change .Right now Regent looks good but I wish I knew more about them..

I talked to TA and she said "You will not have your status" currently Elite plus on Celebrity.

 

Big deal!! So I lose a couple free bags of laundry.

I have had wonderful cruises on Celebrity .Love the ships and staff, but the new management team has soured me on the company.

 

 

[markeb]

2 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

All of this thread seems to be about wine prices onboard being above the $17 premium package limit. Any problems of this kind with cocktails, beer, etc?

 

Only going off the app, for Ascent, which can be very incomplete...

 

The martinis at the Martini bar still appear to be $17. Gins and vodkas appear to be under $17. 

 

At the WCB the Zacapa Old Fashioned, Violet Hour, and Azteca are now $19. The Zacapa "Above the Clouds" was always over the limit and remains over the limit. (The WCB makes the least sense to me. It's a Diageo licensed operation and the pricing frankly discourages sales of Diageo owned or distributed products. Shaking my head...)

 

Using Craft Social as a surrogate for other bars. There's one cocktail (Smoking Bull?) at $19. All of the better bourbons are over $17. Elijah Craig is at the insulting $19. Too many (crappy) beers at $11 ($1.20 over classic...), but a decent selection under $17. I've never found beer to be a strong offering for Celebrity (or RCI for that matter).

 

In general, looks like clear liquors are in the packages and brown liquors aren't. Didn't look too hard for rum or tequila. Most sipping rums appear to be under $17, or not listed and off menu. I'm pretty sure you can get Zacapa 23 or XO neat, for instance, but they're not listed. Only a couple of higher end sipping tequilas mentioned, over the limit. Pretty sure there are more on board. Very few Scotch whiskies listed in bars I looked at. All the Macallan, for instance, was over the limit. Again, there are normally more on the ship, but don't know the price point.

[Whinenowine]

3 hours ago, Oceansails said:

Currently on Eclipse Jan 2024 sailing, also was on December 11,2023 sailing. I can confirm the upcharges in Luminae, specialty restaurants, and Retreat on both sailings on the elevated wine list. We did not have to sign for it, they just asked the suite number.

I’m attaching the wine list from Cellar Masters & Sushi on 5 from Eclipse. If you have the premium package and bring a bottle onboard, we were not charged the corkage fee for decanting. There are still wines in both the classic and premium packages, just not our favorites.

Thanks for this.  I've only two comments.  

 

First, the Blanton's ($25 now) was $19 on the Edge in August.  That's quite a 3.5month jump.

 

Second, and forgive me for sounding snobby, but if you're going to charge $25 for a glass of wine you'd better tell me what the vintage is.  I'll never understand how X won any Wine Spectator awards based on their current selections or the lack of important details.  I'm spoiled living just outside NYC, but no upscale restaurant or somm worth their salt would do this.

 

Just my two cents (or as X would say:  my 2.2c)

 

[drakes2]

2 hours ago, JDPCruisers said:

Will be interested in what you decide on as we are looking but have yet to make a change. 

The Cherry Pie isn't even that good a Pinot Noir. Wish they carried more from the Russian River valley or Oregon. 

[jelayne]

1 hour ago, Baynanno1 said:

Thanks for posting - I look forward to your report from your cruise.

 

Proof reading does not seem to happen these days!

Did she realise that she contradicted herself with the above statements?

 

All the wines on the Retreat Deck and in the Retreat Lounge are within the Premium Package.

In the next paragraph :

There are additional wines available for an upcharge.

 

Obviously not all included within the Premium Package, as has been reported and continues to be reported by current cruisers.

Reads to me like the Lounge and SunDeck will have a menu of only wines ( and probably liquors)  within the premium package, should you ask for wine or any liquor outside the  premium package limit you will be charged.  
 

The Luminae wine list will be more extensive and include wines above the package, which has always been the case & charges will apply. 
 

Hopefully the wines being added will be ones we find enjoyable.  We are in the Ascent on the 21st🤞. 

[billc23]

5 hours ago, CHEZMARYLOU said:

Please come back and let us know what is said. Like you, we paid over $30K for a PH on Beyond. When is you sailing?

I called today regarding a B4B, all in a PH on the Solstice, beginning March 15th, 2024. The concierge told me that there would be charges of a few dollars for the wines that have gone up in price. She told me that for the sailing that originates in Australia the PDP would cover up to $20 per drink. I didn't ask her if the drink prices were higher on that sailing. I let her know that I am having difficultly understanding how management could put in place small uncharges (that are financially trivial to Celebrity and their passengers) that are very upsetting to their highest paying customers. She said she would send a message to corporate express my feelings. 

 

I also have a sailing on the Ascent this month - PH and RS with the grandkids. I'll see how that goes.

[billc23]

4 hours ago, CruisersTimesThree said:

Would be interested to hear what the SC response is as we are sailing in Silhouettes PH in Feb and I’m so annoyed thinking after spending so much hard saved money for a special anniversary that we will be expected to pay upcharges on glasses of wine. People have been rude in commenting in other places saying “you can afford a PH, you’re whining over a couple of bucks!” That’s not the point, it’s the principle! No one with the premium beverage package should pay upcharges for sub standard wine! I’ve loved the product Celebrity has put out before this new President took over. She is making it impossible to continue sailing with them. Will be looking at other lines for our cruising vacations after our Feb cruise. 

 

5 hours ago, richczarnecki said:

Just curious what luxury line you might be referring to . . . would like to know for future reference.

I answered the SC response above. I have new bookings on Silversea - over 100 days so far. 5 cruises on MSC YC for the family vacations. I probably will give Seabourn and Regent a try but my research, for what I enjoy, puts Silversea first.

[Dolebludger]

jmdlv1, to answer your question about laundry on Regent, all guests (even first timers in the lowest suites) receive included, unlimited valet laundry service. The only restriction is guests can’t send laundry out on the last night before debarkation because there isn’t time to get it done and returned before debarkation.

 

Further, guests have included room service, tips, use of the mini fridge, wine and spirits in the suite, all open bar, limited specialty dining, transportation airport/ship both ways, some shore excursions, and more things than I can recall right now. And when I say “tips included” I mean it! Most Regent cruisers do not tip, unless a service crew member is asked to do some service beyond their duties. And then, often the tip will be rejected. One pays one horrendous fare up front (though often less than the Retreat currently) and that is pretty much it!

[Covepointcruiser]

On both Seabourn and Regent there are wines and liquors thy are premium.   On Seabourn most folks are happy with entry level wines, however you can purchase bottles in packages to get good wines.    We paid for 5 and received an additional bottle at no charge.    Regent Los has better wines for purchase.

[richczarnecki]

5 hours ago, jmdlv1 said:

Currently looking at Regent ,Silver Seas ,Oceania and Seabourn.

I know very little about these except Seabourn .

It just seems like Celebrity is chasing away loyal customers.

Thanks. Your earlier comment sounded like you had done some research and concluded that another luxury line was similar in price but elevated in luxury.  Good luck researching!

[DaKahuna]

7 hours ago, richczarnecki said:

Did we make some changes to inclusions in the classic and premium package, we did, and that will always continue to evolve and change based on guest preferences and inventory availability.

 

 This tells me the more popular wines will be changed to no longer be included in their respective packages as was done with Conundrum, Decoy, Whispering Angel. etc. 

 

[DaKahuna]

4 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Or is her plan to just remove the decent wines like Decoy and Conundrum from the lounge and the deck and just leave the $9.95 a bottle wines?

 

 If they only stock products within the DBP in the Retreat, then her statement is true. 

 

 Any bets on whether or not the days of the bartender in the Retreat running down a bottle of your favorite wine from other bars and serving it without an upcharge are over?  

[DaKahuna]

3 hours ago, Whinenowine said:

I'll never understand how X won any Wine Spectator awards based on their current selections or the lack of important details.  

 

 As I understand it, this award was based on the wines in their wine cellar, which from my discussions with the Head Sommelier on a couple of ships is quite extensive and includes some very high end wine (at appropriate prices).   Also, i am not sure when the last time they won that award was.  I do not recall seeing a recent date on any literature referencing the award. 

[TommyD3]

I would love to know WHY the price increases were so large ???

For example the Whispering Angel was $12 a glass and is now $19 - a 58% increase !!!

Even the Mer Soleil was $14 a glass and is now $19 a glass - a 35.7% increase.

None of these wines increased anywhere near that much in stores.

Seems like Celebrity is trying to make sure they have no repeat business !!!

[markeb]

11 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 As I understand it, this award was based on the wines in their wine cellar, which from my discussions with the Head Sommelier on a couple of ships is quite extensive and includes some very high end wine (at appropriate prices).   Also, i am not sure when the last time they won that award was.  I do not recall seeing a recent date on any literature referencing the award. 

I know I answered this earlier, but don’t remember if it was in this thread. 18 venues across the fleet were last awarded in August of 2023. It’s by “restaurant “, not the fleet. The award is based on the overall strength of their offerings. Wines by the glass in a package really aren’t part of the equation…

 

They must provide Wine Spectator vintage information, which as stated is missing in their wine lists. 

[Winemaker_1]

20 minutes ago, TommyD3 said:

I would love to know WHY the price increases were so large ???

 

Opportunistic gouging of the customer during a period where cruise bookings are higher than ever.  It's as simple as that.  

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, richczarnecki said:

Thanks. Your earlier comment sounded like you had done some research and concluded that another luxury line was similar in price but elevated in luxury.  Good luck researching!

Well, the notion that a luxury line will be elevated in luxury relative to a mass market cruise line doesn’t take much research, does it?

[hcat]

These pricing changes mainly impact those who are into upscale wines and drinks,  but others may still book suites for other amenities, like Luminae, pool area, larger staterooms, priority embark and disembark.

 

Maybe demographics of pax will change in  new direction.???

[markeb]

54 minutes ago, Winemaker_1 said:

Opportunistic gouging of the customer during a period where cruise bookings are higher than ever.  It's as simple as that.  

Their 10-K is due March 31. If they’re still servicing in excess of $20B in debt, they’re trying anything to get out of debt. It’s actually as simple as THAT. 

 

Not a great long term strategy, but I’ve never been the president of a subsidiary of a publicly traded company that’s over $20B in debt. Nor I suspect has anyone else on this thread…

[RichYak]

36 minutes ago, hcat said:

 

These pricing changes mainly impact those who are into upscale wines and drinks,

 

Mer Soleil and Decoy are very far from upscale. 

[CruiseRQA]

12 hours ago, High on the Seas said:

Drinking cheap wine and eating lays potato chips sounds like what I do on my deck in the summer, not in an expensive suite. 

Not that there is anything wrong with that ...