Enforcement

[Ferry_Watcher]

5 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If a woman looks very pregnant, are you or a supervisor allowed to ask when her due date is to confirm that she is less than 23 weeks pregnant? If not satisfied with the answer, can you ask for some sort of proof from her doctor?

 

If a person answers the general 'are you more than 23 weeks or more pregnant' with a "no", that is the end of the discussion.

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Of course not! Heck she could be just a little fluffy. She could be pregnant with twins. I don’t think HIPAA allows one to ask, especially something like pregnancy when many measure bigger of smaller. I measured a lot smaller with #1 than #4/#5 at 23 weeks.

You can't ask the medical doctor but you can certainly as the patient, who may choose not to answer (and of course in this context that may raise issues). If someone exceeds the guideline and has issues onboard they would not have any legal recourse to anything since they violated the rule.

[sparks1093]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

1. I think HIPPA only applies to medical providers.

 

2. It could be possible that the pregnant potential passenger never read the rule pertaining to pregnancy.

All passengers agree to the terms and conditions whether they've read them or not. 

[ontheweb]

6 minutes ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

If a person answers the general 'are you more than 23 weeks or more pregnant' with a "no", that is the end of the discussion.

So you can ask, but not follow up. That is how I read your post. 

 

And that is the question rather than when is the due date which would allow you to figure the answer. A cruiser unaware of the actual rule might realize the question asked about more than 23 weeks might then realize it could be a disqualification while asking the due date would not give away where the cutoff point is.

Edited March 7 by ontheweb
spelling correction

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

All passengers agree to the terms and conditions whether they've read them or not. 

I realize that, but if it was not read the pregnant passenger may not realize that there is such a rule. That is what I was trying to say.

[sparks1093]

6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I realize that, but if it was not read the pregnant passenger may not realize that there is such a rule. That is what I was trying to say.

I do get your point, but they can't claim ignorance if something goes south with their pregnancy. The result for them is the same. (And of course one would hope that they would at least ask their provider about whether they should cruise or not, but I'm sure that doesn't happen all of the time.)

Edited March 7 by sparks1093

[ontheweb]

3 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I do get your point, but they can't claim ignorance if something goes south with their pregnancy. The result for them is the same. (And of course one would hope that they would at least ask their provider about whether they should cruise or not, but I'm sure that doesn't happen all of the time.)

I don't think you and I are really disagreeing about anything. I think it is more I am trying to look at the issue as if I was doing the same job as @Ferry_Watcher does.

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Of course not! Heck she could be just a little fluffy. She could be pregnant with twins. I don’t think HIPAA allows one to ask, especially something like pregnancy when many measure bigger of smaller. I measured a lot smaller with #1 than #4/#5 at 23 weeks.

HIPAA only precludes a health care provider from sharing your medical information with a third party.  You can share your medical information with anyone you want to.  And, yes, the cruise lines can ask for documented proof of due date, just like the airlines can.

[Ferry_Watcher]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

So you can ask, but not follow up. That is how I read your post. 

 

And that is the question rather than when is the due date which would allow you to figure the answer. A cruise unaware of the actual rule might realize the question asked about more than 23 weeks might then realize it could be a disqualification while asking the due date would not give away where the cutoff point is.

 

Yes, we ask the general question.  And accept their answer.

 

On occasion we have to go into the system to correct a "yes" answer.  We have had older men who accidently hit the 'yes' button saying that they were 23 weeks pregnant, or the parent of a 10 yr old boy accidently indicate that the child was 23 weeks pregnant.  The ship gets all this data, so we try to have it all completely accurate.  If someone fills out the health questions prior to arriving at the terminal incorrectly, the system usually doesn't let them back in to correct it.  We saw a lot of this during the two years after Covid (2021 and 2022), when the cruise line were hypervigilant about health questions. 

[ontheweb]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

HIPAA only precludes a health care provider from sharing your medical information with a third party.  You can share your medical information with anyone you want to.  And, yes, the cruise lines can ask for documented proof of due date, just like the airlines can.

But it seems from the answers from @Ferry_Watcher that they do not with the caveat that I am sure that there are cruise lines whose boardings she does not handle.

[jsn55]

I became a TV watcher during the virus disaster.  I recently saw a promo for a show abut women who gave birth without knowing they were pregnant.  I find this both hilarious and downright scary.

[Aquahound]

5 hours ago, K32682 said:

 

Is a stop at the handwashing station mandatory for admission and has a cruiser ever been denied access for refusing or is this "rule" similar to not using the same cup or plate more than once? 

 

On some ships, yes.  On RCI Quantum Class ships, you have to walk through the handwashing station to enter the buffet and there is a crewmember standing there enforcing it.  In truth, one could just walk right through it and get away with it, but at least they try to enforce it by at least directing you into the station.  

[sparks1093]

33 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

On some ships, yes.  On RCI Quantum Class ships, you have to walk through the handwashing station to enter the buffet and there is a crewmember standing there enforcing it.  In truth, one could just walk right through it and get away with it, but at least they try to enforce it by at least directing you into the station.  

I am not sure what ships are in which class (except the ones that I served on in the Navy) but can confirm that on Anthem of the Seas to enter the buffet area you had to walk through an area with sinks on either side of the hallway. A crew member directed everyone going in to pass through there and the hallway was reserved for those exiting. I don't generally people watch in those situations but am fairly certain that a number of folks just walked past the sinks.

[Haqdeluxe]

1 hour ago, jsn55 said:

I became a TV watcher during the virus disaster.  I recently saw a promo for a show abut women who gave birth without knowing they were pregnant.  I find this both hilarious and downright scary.

I really don't think it is healthy to stay that high for that long, especially while pregnant. 🤪

[MacMadame]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

1. I think HIPPA only applies to medical providers.

Yep.

 

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

2. It could be possible that the pregnant potential passenger never read the rule pertaining to pregnancy.

There was a pregnant woman who was turned away from a cruise for being too far along in the pregnancy recently. I don't remember the line. So someone is checking, it seems.

Edited March 7 by MacMadame

[K32682]

4 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

On some ships, yes.  On RCI Quantum Class ships, you have to walk through the handwashing station to enter the buffet and there is a crewmember standing there enforcing it.  In truth, one could just walk right through it and get away with it, but at least they try to enforce it by at least directing you into the station.  

 

If there is no consequence to walking past the handwashing area then it is not a rule but a request. 

[Kristelle]

19 hours ago, K32682 said:

There are some people who are sticklers for the RULES and are easily outraged when anyone breaks even the most insignificant of them. Others take a live and let live approach unless the rule breaking directly affects them in a substantial way. A kid in the solarium, a pair of shorts in the MDR, an underage teenager in a casino, someone else not washing their hands before going into the buffet is not worth other passengers or the cruise line making a federal case over.

 

 

 

 

Yes  I agree.  We probably all know "letter of the law" types who want to enforce every rule exactly in every situation - like the person who refused entry on account of high heeled blingy "flip flops"

Mostly in real life there are grey areas and knowing how far and when to bend the rule (or not)  is key rather than knowing exactly what the rule says.

 

Example: at work we wear provided work tops and suppossed to wear our own black pants.

I sometimes wear navy blue pants - nobody minds this rule break.

But if  I wore torn denim jeans they would.

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

4 minutes ago, Kristelle said:

 

..

 

Example: at work we wear provided work tops and suppossed to wear our own black pants.

I sometimes wear navy blue pants - nobody minds this rule break.

But if  I wore torn denim jeans they would.

 

 

The problem is that if you let the rules get bent a little, you step onto a slippery slope - if one bends things a little, there will be a tendency for the next one to also bend it a little.  It’s better to seriously decide if a matter is important before making a rule about it in the first place - and then be grown up enough to play by the rules.  Better to have very few important rules strictly enforced than a cluster of what turns out to be wishy-washy suggestions.

 

What if you preferred to wear you own top - which just looked a fair amount like the provided tops?

[Kristelle]

I disagree.

 

The problem is often strict letter of the law types who dont know when to use discretion in spirit of the law.

 

In real life most rules do get bent a little and the key is knowing how far and when to do so.

I dont think that starts a slippery slope, the original standard  stays about the same and if anyone goes too far then they are pulled back - so same starting standard does not change

 

My work example was an example - sure, you can argue what if next person did this or that - but reality is nobody else has over done the rule bending either and the original standard has not changed.

Like many work places there are a range of options for work tops, all in same colour/logo but different styles - so you pick your preferred ones.

Occasionally somebody might wear a non work top - if they were only coming in for a few hours or something, and that is ok too. 

It doesnt start an avalanche of everyone wearing non work tops all the time - because we are adults and understand degree and context.

 

Likewise poster who was refused entry wearing high heeled blingy "flip flops" - had she been allowed entry, as common sense would say she was wearing suitable footwear in spirit of law, that wouldnt start an avalanche of people trying to get in with rubber beach flip flops or change the original standard.

[jsn55]

59 minutes ago, Kristelle said:

 

 

Yes  I agree.  We probably all know "letter of the law" types who want to enforce every rule exactly in every situation - like the person who refused entry on account of high heeled blingy "flip flops"

Mostly in real life there are grey areas and knowing how far and when to bend the rule (or not)  is key rather than knowing exactly what the rule says.

 

Example: at work we wear provided work tops and suppossed to wear our own black pants.

I sometimes wear navy blue pants - nobody minds this rule break.

But if  I wore torn denim jeans they would.

 

 

Wow, Kristelle ... NAVY BLUE!  You're such a rebel.

[MacMadame]

Remember when Target employees all wore the Target red shirt with khaki pants? Now they can wear jeans or dark pants and CHAOS REIGNS!!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

[Mick B]

Hi,

Yes, I have observed all sorts of people on board breaking all sorts of rules. I am not a people watcher, but sometimes what people do on board is just not unmissable.

 

Anyway, about the handwashing stations. These became very popular after the restart to help stop the spread of Covid. But, before then, staff would stand at the entrance to the main restaurants with hand sanitizer. Their purpose was for your hygene and to help stop things like nora virus.

I always wash my hands at either the sinks or via the hand sanitizer when entering an eating area on the ship in an attempt to avoid catching any virus or getting a bad stomach as you really don't want to be bad on board a ship and you really don't want a bill for the hospital visit.

 

I would strongly advise anyone who enters an eating area to use any facilities on hand to limit your chance of getting a bug whether it is mandatory or not. Its just good personal hygene. Remember, even if you wash your hands when leaving your stateroom, you still may have to take lifts or stairs which means touching things like hand rails that although may have been recently cleaned, will still have been touched by possibly hundreds of other passengers who could have got up to god knows what.

 

It may be worth using the sanitizer again when leaving places like the WJ since some people touch all sorts of things, even the food they pick and then put back - maybe there should be someone enforcing a "do not touch the food with your bare hands" policy too?

 

BTW, I have a theory that 1% of any population are idiots, so on a cruise ship with 4000 guests I expect find at least 40 of them breaking the rules of some sort - I just laugh at them as I don't want to get upset during my holiday as they are not worth it.

 

Mick.

[Markanddonna]

I was on an MSC ship that enforced the chair hog rule. Most appreciated it but it produced many angry passengers who created an unpleasant experience for everyone. They went around mad all the time. If course, the ship was severely overbooked and people had to resort to laying on their towels on the pool decks. First fight I ever saw on a ship 

[clo]

25 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

I was on an MSC ship that enforced the chair hog rule. Most appreciated it but it produced many angry passengers who created an unpleasant experience for everyone. They went around mad all the time. If course, the ship was severely overbooked and people had to resort to laying on their towels on the pool decks. First fight I ever saw on a ship 

I wonder if anyone asked them "what would be a fair alternative?"

 

Also, I anyway, as a young adult lived in an apt complex with a pool. I can't remembere if they even had "chairs" but we put our towels down on the concrete. Going to the beach, the same (but not concrete!)

 

And I suppose that no one knows that the sun is a vicious enemy. And that suntans look awful, making one look older than they are.

 

Preaching over.

[MacMadame]

11 hours ago, Mick B said:

BTW, I have a theory that 1% of any population are idiots, so on a cruise ship with 4000 guests I expect find at least 40 of them breaking the rules of some sort 

1% are idiots and 9% are scofflaws IME. So that's 400 breaking the rules! Another reason to stick to smaller ships. 🤣

 

1 hour ago, Markanddonna said:

First fight I ever saw on a ship 

So you don't cruise on Carnival. 😉