Celebrity's actual deceit on Move Up - bid for upgrade

[The_Big_M]

22 hours ago, PH2 said:

I'm still trying to understand the algorithm for the Move Up bids where they offered me, as a minimum bid amount, a price that would basically equal (or possibly exceed, on any given day's pricing fluctuations) the price of the suite if I just booked it outright and received the full allotment of benefits from booking versus Move Up. It's a headscratcher to me, for sure.

 

Their bidding is to maximise revenue. They seem to place minimum bids based on similar amounts to the cost of the cabin. This is likely as they are sailing full on most sailings so there aren't a lot of empty cabins to fill in any case, and so the few if any available can be sold to those who have had a change of circumstances .e.g had a subsequent bonus, or extra cash now available for upgrade, or just the psychological separation between the upfront cost and the upsell (e.g. it's only x more, disregarding costs alread paid) or just availability when they booked i.e. they want that cabin type but it wasn't available when booked.

[paulh84]

Since there have been some creative WAG assumptions that are morphed into "fact", name calling, referencing T&C's that do not exist (those are for the cruise line's protection, not yours, they will win that battle) and now the promise to seek out whoever is the person in this cabin, I do not think your complain will garner any more attention from Celebrity. Certainly not at the executive level. 

 

If you want the actual Terms and Conditions
 

^{General Terms}

^{By submitting an Offer, Guest agrees to the terms and conditions of this Program. Offer to participate in the Program is non-transferable and applies only to the Guest and booking identified in the email invitation. Any promotions associated with the original booking will remain in effect. The Upgrade will not be eligible to receive any promotions or benefits that are applicable to the stateroom had it been originally booked at that stateroom category. Each offer is considered on an individual Offer basis, meaning that Celebrity may not invite or accept Offers of staterooms traveling together. If bookings that are traveling together are upgraded, Celebrity does not guarantee that the upgraded staterooms will be close together. The terms and conditions of your original cruise booking will remain in effect following the acceptance of an Offer or if an Offer is not accepted. This includes terms and conditions pertaining to cancellation, penalties, changes, the Captain’s Club program.  Accepted offers will earn Captain’s Club points at the original stateroom category purchased, and not the category of the upgraded stateroom. Upgrade does not include any additional promotions. If you purchase an Upgrade Celebrity Cruises cannot guarantee a specific cabin number assignment within the upgraded category. Your cabin number will depend on space availability.  Celebrity reserves the right to modify and change these Terms and Conditions in its sole discretion at any time without notice. These Terms and Conditions apply in conjunction with Celebrity’s cruise ticket contract, website terms of use, privacy policy, all of which are incorporated into and form a part of these Terms and Conditions. Celebrity reserves the right to cancel the Offer at any time, correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions, and change or update fares, fees and surcharges at any time without prior notice. ©2020 Celebrity Cruises. Ships’ registry: Malta and Ecuador.}

[The_Big_M]

On 3/16/2024 at 5:13 PM, george_sf said:

There are 2 penthouse suites on the ship. A guarantee for 2 rooms is "selling it." (Some ships have over 100 Sky Suites. Those are "guarantees." ) Also, these reservation types are not available to average passengers and not available to travel agents. 

 

Also, we asked specifically - "Did this other reservation come in after we were assigned the room?" The STAR manager says they don't know and they can't find out. Our BS meter went high again.  

 

Not defending the situation, or Celebrity's handling of the process.

 

However, the reason given still is possible and potentially plausible.

 

It doesn't have to be that it was a Penthouse Guarantee, but they may have sold any intermediate grades between Celebrity and a Penthouse as well, as a guarantee. e.g. a Royal Suite guarantee.

 

In this case, they still couldn't assign that passenger booking to your Celebrity suite, so the only 'spare' one may be the Penthouse. It may even be that there had been an additional Royal suite when booked, but it became unserviceable for whatever reason.

 

That would also do away with the speculation about them being a VIP - anyone could have booked that. 

[CruisinShips]

15 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

^{. Celebrity reserves the right to cancel the Offer at any time, correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions, and change or update fares, fees and surcharges at any time without prior notice. ©2020 Celebrity Cruises. Ships’ registry: Malta and Ecuador.}

Again, it's not about what they have the right todo.  It's about what they should do so as to promote ongoing good will and customer satisfaction (and retention).

[paulh84]

1 minute ago, CruisinShips said:

Again, it's not about what they have the right todo.  It's about what they should do so as to promote ongoing good will and customer satisfaction (and retention).

 

Again, you also have a choice in how you present yourself and your issue. Choosing to avoid name calling and self-created stories will go a lot further. When you have obviously just made up elements of the story you will not be taken seriously.

[Spif Barwunkel]

Lots of huffing and puffing and roiling air swirling about this thread. To the point where it might actually register a wind rating on the Saffir-Simpson scale. Fortunately, no serious injury or property damage. Typically, as in many of these happenings, there is no solution and once the debris is cleared, we can only anticipate that, at some time, there will be another wind event. It's inevitable. Some folks choose to move elsewhere, resort to name-calling, wax poetic, trade automobiles, and seek counseling. Others understand the nature of it all realizing that climate change, in one form or another, is to blame.    

Edited March 18 by Spif Barwunkel

[hcat]

36 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

Since there have been some creative WAG assumptions that are morphed into "fact", name calling, referencing T&C's that do not exist (those are for the cruise line's protection, not yours, they will win that battle) and now the promise to seek out whoever is the person in this cabin, I do not think your complain will garner any more attention from Celebrity. Certainly not at the executive level. 

 

If you want the actual Terms and Conditions
 

^{General Terms}

^{By submitting an Offer, Guest agrees to the terms and conditions of this Program. Offer to participate in the Program is non-transferable and applies only to the Guest and booking identified in the email invitation. Any promotions associated with the original booking will remain in effect. The Upgrade will not be eligible to receive any promotions or benefits that are applicable to the stateroom had it been originally booked at that stateroom category. Each offer is considered on an individual Offer basis, meaning that Celebrity may not invite or accept Offers of staterooms traveling together. If bookings that are traveling together are upgraded, Celebrity does not guarantee that the upgraded staterooms will be close together. The terms and conditions of your original cruise booking will remain in effect following the acceptance of an Offer or if an Offer is not accepted. This includes terms and conditions pertaining to cancellation, penalties, changes, the Captain’s Club program.  Accepted offers will earn Captain’s Club points at the original stateroom category purchased, and not the category of the upgraded stateroom. Upgrade does not include any additional promotions. If you purchase an Upgrade Celebrity Cruises cannot guarantee a specific cabin number assignment within the upgraded category. Your cabin number will depend on space availability.  Celebrity reserves the right to modify and change these Terms and Conditions in its sole discretion at any time without notice. These Terms and Conditions apply in conjunction with Celebrity’s cruise ticket contract, website terms of use, privacy policy, all of which are incorporated into and form a part of these Terms and Conditions. Celebrity reserves the right to cancel the Offer at any time, correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions, and change or update fares, fees and surcharges at any time without prior notice. ©2020 Celebrity Cruises. Ships’ registry: Malta and Ecuador.}

" cancel Offer"..yes, that is clearly stated. 

 

  But what about after ACCEPTANCE by boh parties.

 

It seems so basic.."Offer  and Aceptance" = a meeting of the minds = a  deal...but obviously not for X!

[vjmatty]

7 minutes ago, hcat said:

" cancel Offer"..yes, that is clearly stated. 

 

  But what about after ACCEPTANCE by boh parties.

 

It seems so basic.."Offer  and Aceptance" = a meeting of the minds = a  deal...but obviously not for X!

Exactly. What some of the apologists don’t understand that once an offer is accepted, it is no longer an offer. It is a binding agreement. That is Contracts 101. 

[CruisinShips]

27 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

Again, you also have a choice in how you present yourself and your issue. Choosing to avoid name calling and self-created stories will go a lot further. When you have obviously just made up elements of the story you will not be taken seriously.

I think the OP's issue was worthy of being taken seriously despite his poor use of a word and his injected speculation of the cause.  Those two items didn't negate the point of his post IMO.  People seem to look for reasons to blame posters here or otherwise invalidate their complaints.  In this case, I would be upset if that happened to me as well.

Edited March 18 by CruisinShips

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

I honestly now feel extra bad for the people in the Penthouse Suites who are potentially going to be facing people skulking around to see who they are and perhaps even asked who they are and when they booked their suite.

[george_sf]

57 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

Exactly. What some of the apologists don’t understand that once an offer is accepted, it is no longer an offer. It is a binding agreement. That is Contracts 101. 

 

Correct. (OP here). 

 

The Terms and Conditions continue about what happens AFTER the offer is accepted. Celebrity charges our card on file. I, as a consumer, cannot change/cancel it. The money is Celebrity's. There is no cancellation even if the room is not as described. Or if I cancel the cruise. Nope - Celebrity keeps the money no matter what. Celebrity can cancel the Move Up only if the cruise is cancelled or if they need to move us to a different cruise. 

 

So in our minds, the Move Up should have stuck. 

 

As to "why" we bid, and our circumstances. We booked this cruise about 2 years ago and got a really good deal. (Ones you don't see any more!) As a comparison, the price for our original cabin was being sold at nearly 2x what we paid just a few months ago. So adding $5440 ($100 over the minimum) for a Penthouse suite still meant it was almost within our budget for a 10 night cruise. A splurge, but not a huge one. What we managed to snag was a Penthouse, as a bargain. It wasn't even close to retail: it was less than 1/2 of what Penthouses would be going for. Heck, as a total, much less than what 10 nights in Celebrity Suite is currently going for next month. 

 

Over the weekend, we saw our refund. An "enhanced" OBC offer was added to a "cruise of our choice." At least the person with the most consistent info (I'll call her "S") worked for us. 

 

 

[george_sf]

11 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

I honestly now feel extra bad for the people in the Penthouse Suites who are potentially going to be facing people skulking around to see who they are and perhaps even asked who they are and when they booked their suite.

 

We will do nothing of the sort!

 

Maybe you haven't been in the Retreat Lounge, but you meet and talk with a lot of people. If we meet a film crew or exec (which we've experienced on our last cruise), we'll know what's up! 

 

 

 

 

 

[vjmatty]

55 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

I honestly now feel extra bad for the people in the Penthouse Suites who are potentially going to be facing people skulking around to see who they are and perhaps even asked who they are and when they booked their suite.

Come now…Let’s not get carried away with dramatic assumptions. Penthouse suites are at the end of the hallway and don’t lend themselves to people just hanging around unnoticed waiting for passengers to come out of their room.  You don’t have to feel sorry for the OP but there’s no reason to turn this into a Lifetime movie either. 

[wrk2cruise]

Yes in the retreat it's not hard to deduce who is in the top suites.  The concierge's and retreat managers pay them a lot of attention.

[Liao]

1 hour ago, george_sf said:

 

We will do nothing of the sort!

 

Maybe you haven't been in the Retreat Lounge, but you meet and talk with a lot of people. If we meet a film crew or exec (which we've experienced on our last cruise), we'll know what's up! 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahhh mystery solved, Steven Spielberg is in the PH.

[paulh84]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

" cancel Offer"..yes, that is clearly stated. 

 

  But what about after ACCEPTANCE by boh parties.

 

It seems so basic.."Offer  and Aceptance" = a meeting of the minds = a  deal...but obviously not for X!

 

 

 

1 hour ago, george_sf said:

 

Correct. (OP here). 

 

The Terms and Conditions continue about what happens AFTER the offer is accepted. Celebrity charges our card on file. I, as a consumer, cannot change/cancel it. The money is Celebrity's. There is no cancellation even if the room is not as described. Or if I cancel the cruise. Nope - Celebrity keeps the money no matter what. Celebrity can cancel the Move Up only if the cruise is cancelled or if they need to move us to a different cruise. 

 

So in our minds, the Move Up should have stuck. 

 

 

I understand that you're upset but the Terms and Conditions are not there to benefit you. They benefit the business. You can't just make up clauses and stipulations to prove your point. They can do this and you agreed to it. If you want to argue it you need to do it from a customer service perspective not from a document that is not in your favor. 

 

MoveUp T&C's:

 

^{General Terms}

^{By submitting an Offer, Guest agrees to the terms and conditions of this Program. Offer to participate in the Program is non-transferable and applies only to the Guest and booking identified in the email invitation. Any promotions associated with the original booking will remain in effect. The Upgrade will not be eligible to receive any promotions or benefits that are applicable to the stateroom had it been originally booked at that stateroom category. Each offer is considered on an individual Offer basis, meaning that Celebrity may not invite or accept Offers of staterooms traveling together. If bookings that are traveling together are upgraded, Celebrity does not guarantee that the upgraded staterooms will be close together. The terms and conditions of your original cruise booking will remain in effect following the acceptance of an Offer or if an Offer is not accepted. This includes terms and conditions pertaining to cancellation, penalties, changes, the Captain’s Club program.  Accepted offers will earn Captain’s Club points at the original stateroom category purchased, and not the category of the upgraded stateroom. Upgrade does not include any additional promotions. If you purchase an Upgrade Celebrity Cruises cannot guarantee a specific cabin number assignment within the upgraded category. Your cabin number will depend on space availability.  Celebrity reserves the right to modify and change these Terms and Conditions in its sole discretion at any time without notice. These Terms and Conditions apply in conjunction with Celebrity’s cruise ticket contract, website terms of use, privacy policy, all of which are incorporated into and form a part of these Terms and Conditions. Celebrity reserves the right to cancel the Offer at any time, correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions, and change or update fares, fees and surcharges at any time without prior notice. ©2020 Celebrity Cruises. Ships’ registry: Malta and Ecuador.}

 

^{Guest ticket contract:}

 

e. Correction of Errors. In the event that a Cruise or CruiseTour is booked but the Cruise Fare listed, quoted or advertised through any website, Carrier sales person, travel agent or any other source is inaccurate or unavailable due to an electronic error, typographical error, human error or any other error causing the Cruise or CruiseTour to be sold, or listed for sale, quoted or advertised, in a quantity or for an amount not intended by Carrier, Carrier reserves the right to correct the erroneous fare by requesting Guest to pay the correct amount intended, re-berthing Guest in other accommodations onboard the Vessel, or by canceling this Agreement in exchange for a full refund. For the avoidance of doubt, in no event shall Carrier be obligated to honor any such booking resulting from the error or otherwise be liable in such circumstances.

[hcat]

forget all of us  real or wannabe lawyers dealing with a one way contract..

 

OP got a raw deal..no good faith there!  Happy Sails All!

[vjmatty]

1 hour ago, paulh84 said:

 

 

 

 

I understand that you're upset but the Terms and Conditions are not there to benefit you. They benefit the business. You can't just make up clauses and stipulations to prove your point. They can do this and you agreed to it. If you want to argue it you need to do it from a customer service perspective not from a document that is not in your favor. 

 

MoveUp T&C's:

 

^{General Terms}

^{By submitting an Offer, Guest agrees to the terms and conditions of this Program. Offer to participate in the Program is non-transferable and applies only to the Guest and booking identified in the email invitation. Any promotions associated with the original booking will remain in effect. The Upgrade will not be eligible to receive any promotions or benefits that are applicable to the stateroom had it been originally booked at that stateroom category. Each offer is considered on an individual Offer basis, meaning that Celebrity may not invite or accept Offers of staterooms traveling together. If bookings that are traveling together are upgraded, Celebrity does not guarantee that the upgraded staterooms will be close together. The terms and conditions of your original cruise booking will remain in effect following the acceptance of an Offer or if an Offer is not accepted. This includes terms and conditions pertaining to cancellation, penalties, changes, the Captain’s Club program.  Accepted offers will earn Captain’s Club points at the original stateroom category purchased, and not the category of the upgraded stateroom. Upgrade does not include any additional promotions. If you purchase an Upgrade Celebrity Cruises cannot guarantee a specific cabin number assignment within the upgraded category. Your cabin number will depend on space availability.  Celebrity reserves the right to modify and change these Terms and Conditions in its sole discretion at any time without notice. These Terms and Conditions apply in conjunction with Celebrity’s cruise ticket contract, website terms of use, privacy policy, all of which are incorporated into and form a part of these Terms and Conditions. Celebrity reserves the right to cancel the Offer at any time, correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions, and change or update fares, fees and surcharges at any time without prior notice. ©2020 Celebrity Cruises. Ships’ registry: Malta and Ecuador.}

 

^{Guest ticket contract:}

 

e. Correction of Errors. In the event that a Cruise or CruiseTour is booked but the Cruise Fare listed, quoted or advertised through any website, Carrier sales person, travel agent or any other source is inaccurate or unavailable due to an electronic error, typographical error, human error or any other error causing the Cruise or CruiseTour to be sold, or listed for sale, quoted or advertised, in a quantity or for an amount not intended by Carrier, Carrier reserves the right to correct the erroneous fare by requesting Guest to pay the correct amount intended, re-berthing Guest in other accommodations onboard the Vessel, or by canceling this Agreement in exchange for a full refund. For the avoidance of doubt, in no event shall Carrier be obligated to honor any such booking resulting from the error or otherwise be liable in such circumstances.

 

 

What you are highlighting is not what happened here.  Correction of Errors is for those cruises as we have seen where the fare is listed either with a typo or otherwise incorrect fare.  The passenger books the cruise either knowing full well that is not the price, or being extremely naive and not knowing, before the cruise line has a chance to correct the listing on their website.  In those cases, the cruise line doesn't cancel the cruise, they contact the passenger or TA and advise of the correct price, giving them the opportunity to pay the difference.

 

This was a Move Up offer.  There was no listed price.  It was a bid within a range as an additional supplement to the fare.  The OP's credit card was already charged for the full amount.

 

I don't think calling the OP "upset" when the post you have quoted is simply making a contracts argument is necessary or helpful to your position.

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

Yes in the retreat it's not hard to deduce who is in the top suites.  The concierge's and retreat managers pay them a lot of attention.

One does not have to be in a top suite, there are other reasons why certain people in the Retreat are payed a lot of attention. 

[vjmatty]

1 hour ago, Liao said:

Ahhh mystery solved, Steven Spielberg is in the PH.

Filming a movie about people stalking penthouse passengers.

[vjmatty]

57 minutes ago, hcat said:

forget all of us  real or wannabe lawyers dealing with a one way contract..

 

There in lies the problem.  There is no such thing as a one-way contract, or it isn't a contract.  Some of the posters keep saying it is intended to benefit the cruise line only, not the passenger.  First of all, such a "contract" would be impossible.  Second, just because a contract is intended to only benefit one side, doesn't mean the other side can't ever benefit from various clauses in the contract, again, assuming it is a true contract. If a company came to me and said " I want to write up a contract that only benefits me in any situation but can't work against me in any way" I'd have to say sorry, what you are describing is not a contract.

 

ETA: Also, if Celebrity in their Move Up rules stated something like "Carrier has the right to revoke the upgrade even after the Move Up bid is accepted" then there would be notice and acceptance of that term.  There is no such language in the T/C and cobbing it together from multiple clauses doesn't always work

 

 

 

Edited March 18 by vjmatty
ETA

[Oceangoer2]

36 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

One does not have to be in a top suite, there are other reasons why certain people in the Retreat are payed a lot of attention. 

Maybe one reason might be they're just likeable???  😇

[C-Dragons]

16 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Maybe one reason might be they're just likeable???  😇

👍 😊

[Mark_K]

1 hour ago, vjmatty said:

There in lies the problem.  There is no such thing as a one-way contract, or it isn't a contract.  Some of the posters keep saying it is intended to benefit the cruise line only, not the passenger.  First of all, such a "contract" would be impossible.  Second, just because a contract is intended to only benefit one side, doesn't mean the other side can't ever benefit from various clauses in the contract, again, assuming it is a true contract. If a company came to me and said " I want to write up a contract that only benefits me in any situation but can't work against me in any way" I'd have to say sorry, what you are describing is not a contract.

 

ETA: Also, if Celebrity in their Move Up rules stated something like "Carrier has the right to revoke the upgrade even after the Move Up bid is accepted" then there would be notice and acceptance of that term.  There is no such language in the T/C and cobbing it together from multiple clauses doesn't always work

 

 

 

Prior to the move up Celebrity had the right to move him to a different cabin. The move up terms clearly state that all the terms of the original booking remain in effect after the move up.

 

Anyway, it seems to me that the crux of the problem is the disparity regarding the damages incurred.  I expect Celebrity feels the poster was made whole by refunding his money and returning him to his original cabin, and gave some OBC by way of apology.  Meanwhile, the poster has an entirely different view on that topic.

[vjmatty]

3 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

Prior to the move up Celebrity had the right to move him to a different cabin. The move up terms clearly state that all the terms of the original booking remain in effect after the move up.

 

Anyway, it seems to me that the crux of the problem is the disparity regarding the damages incurred.  I expect Celebrity feels the poster was made whole by refunding his money and returning him to his original cabin, and gave some OBC by way of apology.  Meanwhile, the poster has an entirely different view on that topic.

Agree there’s not much if anything in the way of damages. Though in the name of good customer service, I thought the one poster’s suggestion of still offering free laundry and specialty dining perks was a good compromise.