Baltimore Tragedy: Collapse of Francis Scott Key Bridge

[Airbear232]

The Francis Scott Key Bridge collapsed this morning after being struck by a container ship.  The bridge is part of i695 and spans the Patapsco River.  There was excellent visibility at the time of collision.  Multiple vehicles were on the bridge on the time of the collapse.  A dreadful event.  God willing there will be survivors.  Cruises into Baltimore will be suspended. 

Edited March 26 by Airbear232

[tscoffey]

Prayers for anyone possibly on the bridge at that time.

It appears from the map that all cruise ships would have to pass this bridge (now destroyed). 
This will not be passable for a long time. Likely weeks before a wide enough passage can be established. From the port schedule, Carnival Legend was due in on March 31st. What is the alternative nearby port?

[DoubleHJr]

Thoughts and prayers to those affected by this. So sad and random. 
 

As for nearby ports, I think Norfolk is the closest that has supported cruise ships in the past. Philadelphia is another port (not 100% if they ported ships there in the past). Of the active ports, NYC (Manhattan) and Charleston are “close”. 

[puppycanducruise]

Terrible news.  Prayers for all involved.

[DoubleHJr]

We’ve gone under that bridge several times. Very accessible port too!

[caribsun]

So sad, we have a Motorhome and have taken this bridge many times because the tunnels do not allow propane tanks. We have a trip planned next week. Thoughts and prayers. 

[genealogyfan]

So sad, the news said there were 2 survivors so far but construction workers were on the bridge at the time too. 

Edited March 26 by genealogyfan

[mskaufman]

We have sailed under the bridge a number of times.  Often looks like only a few feet clearance. It looks like the container ship hit one of the concrete support structures.  I don't think so, but wonder if there is an alternate port on the other side of the bridge (like near Annapolis and the Naval Academy). 

[DCThunder]

1 hour ago, mskaufman said:

We have sailed under the bridge a number of times.  Often looks like only a few feet clearance. It looks like the container ship hit one of the concrete support structures.  I don't think so, but wonder if there is an alternate port on the other side of the bridge (like near Annapolis and the Naval Academy). 

The City Dock in Annapolis can handle sailboats and go-fast boats, but a cruise ship, that's a hard no.  I also doubt the channel up the Severn River is sufficiently dredged to allow for a 40 ft draft cruise ship to make it up there.  Otherwise, there are no viable ports on the Chesapeake Bay until you get down to the Norfolk/Newport News/Hampton Roads area.  

Edited March 26 by DCThunder

[Turtles06]

It's a horrible tragedy; prayers for all affected.   It's hard to understand what might have happened. 

 

I assume a harbor pilot would have been on board the container ship at that time.  Is that a correct assumption? 

[Rubyfisch]

35 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

It's a horrible tragedy; prayers for all affected.   It's hard to understand what might have happened. 

 

I assume a harbor pilot would have been on board the container ship at that time.  Is that a correct assumption? 

The news reporting I read this morning said there were two pilots aboard. When I've sailed out of Baltimore, the pilots are with you all the way to the mouth of Chesapeake.

[markeb]

28 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

It's a horrible tragedy; prayers for all affected.   It's hard to understand what might have happened. 

 

I assume a harbor pilot would have been on board the container ship at that time.  Is that a correct assumption? 

 

The Baltimore Sun is reporting there was a pilot onboard. There are unconfirmed reports that the ship lost power; no one's going to confirm that until there's a full investigation.

 

I'm not that familiar with the Port of Baltimore, but from the reports I've seen, cruise ships are a blip on the radar. Shipping traffic into an out of the port is suspended. No one is saying for how long. That's container ships, roll on/roll off car shipments, etc. Whoever's in the port may be stuck there, and it could be awhile before anyone else gets in. 

 

Praying for the victims and their families.

[Rubyfisch]

2 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

The Baltimore Sun is reporting there was a pilot onboard. There are unconfirmed reports that the ship lost power; no one's going to confirm that until there's a full investigation.

 

I'm not that familiar with the Port of Baltimore, but from the reports I've seen, cruise ships are a blip on the radar. Shipping traffic into an out of the port is suspended. No one is saying for how long. That's container ships, roll on/roll off car shipments, etc. Whoever's in the port may be stuck there, and it could be awhile before anyone else gets in. 

 

Praying for the victims and their families.

Yeah - it's a working industrial port - it's going to be a mess, without easy solutions.

[Rubyfisch]

This from the NYTimes reporting on it:

 

[Daniel A]

American Cruise Line ship American Constitution was due in Baltimore today.  Cruisemapper is showing Constitution is docked in D.C. today.  These are smaller ships.

[markeb]

1 minute ago, Rubyfisch said:

Yeah - it's a working industrial port - it's going to be a mess, without easy solutions.

 

It's not just the immediate port activities either. BMW and Mercedes, at a minimum, have vehicle processing facilities associated with the port. Military Sealift Command has a major vehicle processing center for overseas shipments of personal vehicles. Those are just a couple of quick examples. It's going to be messy, as you say.

[Zach1213]

17 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

The Baltimore Sun is reporting there was a pilot onboard. There are unconfirmed reports that the ship lost power; no one's going to confirm that until there's a full investigation.

 

Nobody official or with any potential liability in any way is going to confirm it. But it's pretty obvious from the video, and many shipping experts have already commented that the video makes it clear that power was lost once if not twice. With that in mind, it'll be interesting to see where liability falls, possibly due to poor maintenance on the part of the ship owner and/or maintainer (both based in Singapore). 

Edited March 26 by Zach1213

[OnTheJourney]

Great video here that was posted on a RCCL thread: 

 

[Nitemare]

Power issue with the ship seems to be what happened.  Pieces of garbage political talkers are blaming everything else they can think of, instead.

[DCThunder]

8 minutes ago, Nitemare said:

Power issue with the ship seems to be what happened.  

It is interesting that the ship lost power less than 30 minutes after leaving port.  I realize sh** happens, but you'd think that they wouldn't leave the dock if there were questions about the electrical power.

[Nitemare]

Just now, DCThunder said:

It is interesting that the ship lost power less than 30 minutes after leaving port.  I realize sh** happens, but you'd think that they wouldn't leave the dock if there were questions about the electrical power.

This kind of "I don't know anything but what if" questions is what ends up going nowhere positive.  According to folks who KNOW things, the current theory is that the ship lost power, which means it loses navigation.  Things do break, even though they are tested all the time

[Daniel A]

Placing blame or hypothesising this soon after an event like this one is what is referred to as a rush to judgement.   It will take many months before any definitive explanation is made.  We don't need to know before then.

[chengkp75]

Yes, it is fairly obvious from the video that the ship lost all power (blackout).  I won't repeat the answers I posted on the RCI board, anyone interested can look there.

 

Maritime investigations have moved away from "placing blame" decades ago.  It is felt that if persons involved in incidents know that if they followed the company's SMS (Safety Management System) policies and procedures, that they will not be blamed for incidents happening, then investigators can more likely get truthful information from those involved in the incident.  The purpose of the investigation is to determine what went wrong, and to determine what changes to the SMS system need to be made to prevent the incident from happening again.

 

Having said that, the shipowner is always responsible for any allision with a shore facility, and the cost of damages from that allision.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, DCThunder said:

It is interesting that the ship lost power less than 30 minutes after leaving port.  I realize sh** happens, but you'd think that they wouldn't leave the dock if there were questions about the electrical power.

There was likely no questions about the ship's generators.  A fuel pump can seize on an engine at any time (especially when the load changes from what the engine has been experiencing for a while (like going from just hotel load in port to using thrusters).  A seized fuel pump can drag the plant down to blackout, even with another generator online, as there would be while under pilot's orders.

[TheOldBear]

53 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

There was likely no questions about the ship's generators.  A fuel pump can seize on an engine at any time (especially when the load changes from what the engine has been experiencing for a while (like going from just hotel load in port to using thrusters).  A seized fuel pump can drag the plant down to blackout, even with another generator online, as there would be while under pilot's orders.

Would a freighter of that vintage have any backup available for the rudder [e.g. some sort of  pressure accumulator] or would it fail promptly with loss of the electric buss?