P&O vs Fred

[lincslady]

I wonder if Fred is hoping to pick up the people who are disappointed with the new regimes on P and O and other lines of going much more casual.

[Eglesbrech]

12 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

Changing back to what they were in the days that "Fred" was sailing with over 90% occupancy.

As discussed on the Fred board there have been a number of subtle changes since the new CEO came into post.
 

As many lines look to cut lots of extras, the only way Fred can perhaps differentiate themselves from the newer, better furbished ships with extra restaurants / activities/ balcony cabins etc is food, service and those little extra touches.

 

Fred has always seemed to attract an older demographic and perhaps they need to embrace that, they just can’t compete for young families. They can’t compete with P&O on the style of the ships or indeed on price but they can by retaining some of the more traditional elements of cruising..

P&O have made it clear they are looking for the younger demographic on their new ships and have tailored what they offer to this demographic. 
 

Fred seem to be going after older special interest cruisers and offering  more unusual itinerary’s to attract them.

 

[Windsurfboy]

4 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

 

 

Fred seem to be going after older special interest cruisers and offering  more unusual itinerary’s to attract them.

 

 

Exactly  Saga's market. 

 

Saga, offer better service, food (as speciality  restaurants included)  and drinks.

 

But Fred seems to have more interesting itineraries,  and sails from the North occasionally. 

[twotravellersLondon]

13 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

Fred seem to be going after older special interest cruisers and offering  more unusual itinerary’s to attract them.

 

 

Very much agree that FOCL is attracting a more senior demographic from parts of the country that other cruise-lines seldom reach and had that "Fred" has recently been trying to encourage folk new to cruising to take the plunge. Certainly the company is bussing groups from the South-east up to Newcastle to join cruises.

 

The problem is that FOCL have already lost passengers and potential passengers to SAGA and with SAGA's nationwide car service coming on stream next year that may well dent the take-up of FOCL cruises.

 

The average age of UK cruisers is about 56 and the average of FOCL cruisers is about 67... virtually the same as SAGA. So FOCL seems to be falling into the nich category of appealing to canny boomers who don't want to buy into the all inclusive SAGA type package... complete with balconies etc. 

 

So that really does beg the question about where FOCL will find enough passengers to fill the upper deck and balcony cabins which are priced at about the same cost as SAGA but don't have the advantage on the included extras. 

 

There's a very  long video of Peter Deer available where he discusses that rational of acquiring the two old HAL ships as offering the opportunity for FOCL to offer these upper and balcony cabins at a premium... 20% markup was mentioned... the real question for us is why pay a SAGA price to cruise on an old ship where the food, entertainment and lots of other things are just not as good as SAGA.

 

Just comparing FOCL with P&O... we certainly know people who've migrated from P&O to FOCL and are very happy with their choice... because they feel that, although a bit more costly, FOCL's offer is a bit better. But with the help of an abacus, the back of an old envelope that looks as if the average profit per passenger per day is less that £10... that probably means that many people are cruising with Fred at less than cost price.

 

Perhaps... FOCL should ditch the idea of running a virtual ship within a ship without providing those who are paying so much more that the basis "from fare" and aim whole heartedly for the more senior and mature P&O market of special interest cruisers and offer more unusual itinerary’s to attract them.

[Selbourne]

34 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

the real question for us is why pay a SAGA price to cruise on an old ship where the food, entertainment and lots of other things are just not as good as SAGA.

That would be my question too. I wouldn’t have thought that regional departures compensate for all of that. 
 

Frankly, neither line appeals to us at present. Fred Olsen due to their relaxed attitude to smoking and vaping and Saga as we wouldn’t get our moneys worth from the considerable extra cost of the ‘included’ extras. 
 

On our last few P&O cruises we have been struck by the number of passengers talking very positively about Ambassador Cruises and comparing them very favourably to P&O. We haven’t looked at them seriously as they have very few accessible balcony cabins (I think that some are just suites) and I find their pricing structure to be off putting (everything seems to offers rather than straightforward transparent pricing). 

[zap99]

52 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 

Very much agree that FOCL is attracting a more senior demographic from parts of the country that other cruise-lines seldom reach and had that "Fred" has recently been trying to encourage folk new to cruising to take the plunge. Certainly the company is bussing groups from the South-east up to Newcastle to join cruises.

 

The problem is that FOCL have already lost passengers and potential passengers to SAGA and with SAGA's nationwide car service coming on stream next year that may well dent the take-up of FOCL cruises.

 

The average age of UK cruisers is about 56 and the average of FOCL cruisers is about 67... virtually the same as SAGA. So FOCL seems to be falling into the nich category of appealing to canny boomers who don't want to buy into the all inclusive SAGA type package... complete with balconies etc. 

 

So that really does beg the question about where FOCL will find enough passengers to fill the upper deck and balcony cabins which are priced at about the same cost as SAGA but don't have the advantage on the included extras. 

 

There's a very  long video of Peter Deer available where he discusses that rational of acquiring the two old HAL ships as offering the opportunity for FOCL to offer these upper and balcony cabins at a premium... 20% markup was mentioned... the real question for us is why pay a SAGA price to cruise on an old ship where the food, entertainment and lots of other things are just not as good as SAGA.

 

Just comparing FOCL with P&O... we certainly know people who've migrated from P&O to FOCL and are very happy with their choice... because they feel that, although a bit more costly, FOCL's offer is a bit better. But with the help of an abacus, the back of an old envelope that looks as if the average profit per passenger per day is less that £10... that probably means that many people are cruising with Fred at less than cost price.

 

Perhaps... FOCL should ditch the idea of running a virtual ship within a ship without providing those who are paying so much more that the basis "from fare" and aim whole heartedly for the more senior and mature P&O market of special interest cruisers and offer more unusual itinerary’s to attract them.

We have booked Anthem of the seas for September. When we grow up we may try Saga, or Fred.

 

 

Zap...aged 74.

[yorkshirephil]

56 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 

Very much agree that FOCL is attracting a more senior demographic from parts of the country that other cruise-lines seldom reach and had that "Fred" has recently been trying to encourage folk new to cruising to take the plunge. Certainly the company is bussing groups from the South-east up to Newcastle to join cruises.

 

The problem is that FOCL have already lost passengers and potential passengers to SAGA and with SAGA's nationwide car service coming on stream next year that may well dent the take-up of FOCL cruises.

 

The average age of UK cruisers is about 56 and the average of FOCL cruisers is about 67... virtually the same as SAGA. So FOCL seems to be falling into the nich category of appealing to canny boomers who don't want to buy into the all inclusive SAGA type package... complete with balconies etc. 

 

So that really does beg the question about where FOCL will find enough passengers to fill the upper deck and balcony cabins which are priced at about the same cost as SAGA but don't have the advantage on the included extras. 

 

There's a very  long video of Peter Deer available where he discusses that rational of acquiring the two old HAL ships as offering the opportunity for FOCL to offer these upper and balcony cabins at a premium... 20% markup was mentioned... the real question for us is why pay a SAGA price to cruise on an old ship where the food, entertainment and lots of other things are just not as good as SAGA.

 

Just comparing FOCL with P&O... we certainly know people who've migrated from P&O to FOCL and are very happy with their choice... because they feel that, although a bit more costly, FOCL's offer is a bit better. But with the help of an abacus, the back of an old envelope that looks as if the average profit per passenger per day is less that £10... that probably means that many people are cruising with Fred at less than cost price.

 

Perhaps... FOCL should ditch the idea of running a virtual ship within a ship without providing those who are paying so much more that the basis "from fare" and aim whole heartedly for the more senior and mature P&O market of special interest cruisers and offer more unusual itinerary’s to attract them.

Whatever Fred are doing they seem to be making it work at the moment as they are keeping their prices high with not much in the way of offers. When we cruised with them their costs were on par with P&O and they had the better itineraries for us.

We were usually the youngest on board but that didn't bother us, plus we could get some practice in for when we get old😉. Notice the smiley wink for anybody that may feel offended on our behalf. I would pay the higher price for a bucket list itinerary but not for the routine cruises that we have done before.

 

 

[yorkshirephil]

16 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

 

On our last few P&O cruises we have been struck by the number of passengers talking very positively about Ambassador Cruises and comparing them very favourably to P&O. We haven’t looked at them seriously as they have very few accessible balcony cabins (I think that some are just suites) and I find their pricing structure to be off putting (everything seems to offers rather than straightforward transparent pricing). 

We have taken several cruises with Ambassador and loved them all. I would compare them favourably with P&O smaller adult only ships as they have a lot of similarities, plus they do have some interesting itineraries and hopefully will add to that if/when they get another ship. The Ambassador entertainment is excellent and their speakers have been very good and varied. The ships are older and have the older ship issues as do Aurora and Arcadia which is why I would only compare Ambassador with them. They do have some strange pricing structures sometimes but we are used to that as they follow the model of CMV who we used many times. 

[lincslady]

Unless Fred has changed a lot since I was last on board many years ago, it would have to be a lot cheaper than Saga to be anything like comparable.  The old ships are nothing like the quality and attractiveness of the two newish Saga ships, quite apart from the restaurant choices etc.

[zap99]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

Whatever Fred are doing they seem to be making it work at the moment as they are keeping their prices high with not much in the way of offers. When we cruised with them their costs were on par with P&O and they had the better itineraries for us.

We were usually the youngest on board but that didn't bother us, plus we could get some practice in for when we get old😉. Notice the smiley wink for anybody that may feel offended on our behalf. I would pay the higher price for a bucket list itinerary but not for the routine cruises that we have done before.

 

 

When we booked Anthem yesterday, I put in our Crown and Anchor details. RC loyalty scheme. The price came up, which was a fair bit lower than I anticipated. Looking at the breakdown it included about 10%  " Seniors discount "...flipping liberty..hang on it was best part of £400. Many of the items like excursions had 30% seniors discount. We'll swallow our pride.

[yorkshirephil]

2 minutes ago, zap99 said:

When we booked Anthem yesterday, I put in our Crown and Anchor details. RC loyalty scheme. The price came up, which was a fair bit lower than I anticipated. Looking at the breakdown it included about 10%  " Seniors discount "...flipping liberty..hang on it was best part of £400. Many of the items like excursions had 30% seniors discount. We'll swallow our pride.

Absolutely, we have to put up with the bad hip or back, the where did I leave my car key moment so why not embrace the benefits, I got my pizza at Iceland today, 10% senior discount. I saved £1.80, shame about the £2.00 for parking though, a 10% discount on that and I would have broke even.

[davecttr]

I checked Fred cruises to Norway etc for Jun/July/August 2025 and there are no arctic offers. The most interesting is a 12 nighter from Dover in July costing £3199 for an inside single cabin on a lower deck. Dover is attractive as it is about 40 miles from home so a hotel stay not needed. The price is high though. 

 

P&O hav a 16 night Arcadia cruise from southampton to Iceland at £2499 for a inside single on the whale watching deck. £156 pn v £266 per night, no contest even with the additional cost of getting to Southampton. Fred have no cruises to Svalbard etc next year either.

[davecttr]

3 hours ago, davecttr said:

I checked Fred cruises to Norway etc for Jun/July/August 2025 and there are no arctic offers. The most interesting is a 12 nighter from Dover in July costing £3199 for an inside single cabin on a lower deck. Dover is attractive as it is about 40 miles from home so a hotel stay not needed. The price is high though. 

 

P&O hav a 16 night Arcadia cruise from southampton to Iceland at £2499 for a inside single on the whale watching deck. £156 pn v £266 per night, no contest even with the additional cost of getting to Southampton. Fred have no cruises to Svalbard etc next year either.

I looked at Ambassador cruises as well but nothing attractive so I have booked the June Arcadia cruise. I have the single cabin location grade SC, forward on the sun deck. Shower only which I prefer.

[Windsurfboy]

We did CMV once 6 years ago, it was the only ship going from Cape Town to UK  when we wanted to come home in April. 

 

This was year after we'd done same journey on Aurora.  CMV not in same league as Aurora,  very basic , cheap and cheerful. Enjoyed the cruise but that was because of the fellow passengers not the ship.

 

Ambassador cruise reviews are very mixed, some, about half the people think they are fine and good value, the other half think they are very basic, poor foodand don't live up to promise

[twotravellersLondon]

20 hours ago, davecttr said:

Fred have no cruises to Svalbard etc next year either.

 

That may well be because there are new environmental regulations likely to be in place by January 2025. These affect landing, speeds, distance from the shore and lots of other things. Most of the ships affected will be expedition ships... but some of the new regulations are likely to impact cruise ships as well.

[Bazrat]

23 hours ago, davecttr said:

I checked Fred cruises to Norway etc for Jun/July/August 2025 and there are no arctic offers. The most interesting is a 12 nighter from Dover in July costing £3199 for an inside single cabin on a lower deck. Dover is attractive as it is about 40 miles from home so a hotel stay not needed. The price is high though. 

 

P&O hav a 16 night Arcadia cruise from southampton to Iceland at £2499 for a inside single on the whale watching deck. £156 pn v £266 per night, no contest even with the additional cost of getting to Southampton. Fred have no cruises to Svalbard etc next year either.

What about the turn down service on Fred and the choccy on the pillow, didn't that persuade you

[jeanlyon]

Just back from Bolette and really did have a good time.  The ship is very nice with lots of good bars.  The food was definitely better than P&O, far more choice.  We also ate in Colours one evening and that was very good too.  We had 2 Captains party with lots of drinks and lovely canapes.  The theatre company was very good and the Ents Manager was very professional and excellent.  None of the "Are we all having a lovely time" stuff that you hear these days.

 

We did 2 private excursions, one in the Azores and one in Madeira and I would definitely recommend both.  No coaches for us.  We had a private vehicle and super driver on both islands.   

[Eglesbrech]

16 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Just back from Bolette and really did have a good time.  The ship is very nice with lots of good bars.  The food was definitely better than P&O, far more choice.  We also ate in Colours one evening and that was very good too.  We had 2 Captains party with lots of drinks and lovely canapes.  The theatre company was very good and the Ents Manager was very professional and excellent.  None of the "Are we all having a lovely time" stuff that you hear these days.

 

We did 2 private excursions, one in the Azores and one in Madeira and I would definitely recommend both.  No coaches for us.  We had a private vehicle and super driver on both islands.   

Glad you enjoyed it Jean.

 

I kept a note of the company in the Azures for future use. Sounds ideal

[jeanlyon]

Absolutely stunning scenery at the Crater Lakes and other places.   Similar in Madeira.  

[Windsurfboy]

28 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Just back from Bolette and really did have a good time.  The ship is very nice with lots of good bars.  The food was definitely better than P&O, far more choice.  We also ate in Colours one evening and that was very good too.  We had 2 Captains party with lots of drinks and lovely canapes.  The theatre company was very good and the Ents Manager was very professional and excellent.  None of the "Are we all having a lovely time" stuff that you hear these days.

 

We did 2 private excursions, one in the Azores and one in Madeira and I would definitely recommend both.  No coaches for us.  We had a private vehicle and super driver on both islands.   

 

 

Glad you had a good time, Fred sounds  better.

 

What was the % premium of Fred vs similar cabin on P&O

[Selbourne]

33 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

None of the "Are we all having a lovely time" stuff that you hear these days.

I”m always tempted to shout out “Hi-di-Hi” when they say that 🙄😂

[jeanlyon]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

I”m always tempted to shout out “Hi-di-Hi” when they say that 🙄😂

Just awful.  Hear it a lot on P&O, but not on Fred.  As another comment.  We went to all the shows and not a single one was too loud, whereas on P&O they are absolutely deafening.  Interesting!

[Bazrat]

I am glad I sail on p&o because as a child I never went to a holiday camp, so I haven't missed out now 🤣🤣🤣.

 

[AndyMichelle]

13 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I”m always tempted to shout out “Hi-di-Hi” when they say that 🙄😂

Yeah, we definitely need more sophisticated entertainment like Princess, who's daytime schedule includes making paper aeroplanes and throwing them about the atrium... 😂

There is enough to do on these ships to avoid the Butlins brigade, I have never heard the cocktail pianist in the Crows Nest shout 'are you having a good time'... 

Each to their own. 

Andy 

[Bazrat]

2 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Yeah, we definitely need more sophisticated entertainment like Princess, who's daytime schedule includes making paper aeroplanes and throwing them about the atrium... 😂

There is enough to do on these ships to avoid the Butlins brigade, I have never heard the cocktail pianist in the Crows Nest shout 'are you having a good time'... 

Each to their own. 

Andy 

You do realise that we never hear those things, because we go on the more sophisticated p&o cruises away from the mob