Celebrity in Hot Water - Edge sailed too close to Kauai’s NaPali Coast

[MMMCruiser]

There is coral out there.  I've been snorkeling out there while on a Zodiak tour of the NaPali area (totally sea-sickness inducing, so I can't recommend it to anyone who gets motion sick).  It's gorgeous, it's pristine, and I've never seen a large ship there (let alone one so close to the coast).  The whole thing makes me uncomfortable because I don't want to sail with a cruise line that isn't conscious of the rules regarding something like this (and yes, I am speculating, but it certainly seems like they should not have been there).

[Georgia_Peaches]

2 minutes ago, MMMCruiser said:

The whole thing makes me uncomfortable because I don't want to sail with a cruise line that isn't conscious of the rules regarding something like this (and yes, I am speculating, but it certainly seems like they should not have been there).

It will take a lot more than this for me not to cruise with Celebrity but I completely understand.  I felt that way about buying my gas from Exxon after the Valdez oil spill in '89.  Like gas companies, there are plenty of cruising options out there...I'm sure there will be some fallout for Celebrity over this...time will tell.

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, MMMCruiser said:

There is coral out there.  I've been snorkeling out there while on a Zodiak tour of the NaPali area (totally sea-sickness inducing, so I can't recommend it to anyone who gets motion sick).  It's gorgeous, it's pristine, and I've never seen a large ship there (let alone one so close to the coast).  The whole thing makes me uncomfortable because I don't want to sail with a cruise line that isn't conscious of the rules regarding something like this (and yes, I am speculating, but it certainly seems like they should not have been there).

I don't think anyone disputes that the ship should not have been where it was, it would be interesting to see if the Sailing Directions and the Port Entry Guide for Kauaii have the information regarding the exclusion zone.  Those would be the areas where the shipboard crew would learn about the zone, unless it is marked on the chart, which I don't think it would be, as it is not a federal requirement.

[critterchick]

7 hours ago, MMS Cruising said:

Very helpful to read the detailed views of the most qualified commentators on this thread.  For my part, I particularly appreciate the views of DH given his presence on the ship in question and many years of captaining naval vessels.  I agree that the Edge would have the benefit of all of the modern cruise ship propulsion and maneuverability devices, but I for one would not presume to tell DH that his lack of comfort with the proximity to the cliffs would have been alleviated "after a few hours using a bridge simulator" (akin to patting DH on the head and saying something like "don't worry, buddy, you stick to driving the dump trucks and let the captains of the fancy teslas/ferraris/maseratis show you how its done").  I'm very new to the boards, and understand from my brief time here that you are quite an authority on cruise ships. But I appreciate DH validating the feeling that many of the local boat captains and other witnesses had (all were eyewitnesses) that the Edge was uncomfortably close to the natural wonders of the Na Pali cliffs.  

 

I agree that the captain on the bridge, fully experienced with the capabilities of the Ship, was in the best position to determine the safety of the vessel under his command.  But there is always an element of risk in charting a course very close to land, and I don't think anyone is arguing that getting this close is a risk-free proposition, akin to sailing miles offshore (as is typical for say, the Pride of America).  The captain determined that this was a "safe" maneuver, and thankfully, he was correct.  This time.  But even if the approach did not violate local laws, this looks like a much riskier path to take, the kind of thing that made a former naval captain "uncomfortable" and shocked the local boat captains.  Given the reduced margin of error, would it be out of line to call this a "stunt"?  In your opinion, was this maneuver as "safe" as steering a course miles off shore instead?  Would you argue that captains in the future should have leeway to make similar maneuvers (again, assuming no local laws are impacted), as long as they make a judgment that it is "safe"?  The focus of the discussion on this thread seems to assume that there a line where something is judged "safe", up until the point that the ship hits a sandbar or rock, and then it's "not safe" (@CostaConcordia).  But would you agree that it's actually a sliding scale of risk that at some point becomes an unacceptable risk?  Should the Edge have been permitted to go even closer to the cliffs (assuming no local laws were impacted)?

 

I don't think the people of Hawaii are willing to allow cruise ships to take these kinds of elevated risks with the natural beauty and resources of the land for the sake of a thrilling view of the Kaua'i coast.

 

Apologies for the long post, but I was born and raised in Hawaii, and there is already a lot of tension between local people and the tourism industry.  This kind of event only makes the local Hawaii people more resentful of what they often perceive as a "cavalier" attitude of tourists toward the land and its beauty.

 

 

Thanks for the support. Kauai is my favorite place on earth and I hate to think that I was an unknowing participant in causing damage to the sea floor. It was indeed a thrilling view but it’s going to have to be a “guilty pleasure” memory for me.

[Mark_K]

2 hours ago, MMMCruiser said:

There is coral out there.  I've been snorkeling out there while on a Zodiak tour of the NaPali area (totally sea-sickness inducing, so I can't recommend it to anyone who gets motion sick).  It's gorgeous, it's pristine, and I've never seen a large ship there (let alone one so close to the coast).  The whole thing makes me uncomfortable because I don't want to sail with a cruise line that isn't conscious of the rules regarding something like this (and yes, I am speculating, but it certainly seems like they should not have been there).

NCL has recently discontinued it, but Pride of America has been cruising the Na Pali coast every week for years. It was one of the highlights of the cruise.

[MMMCruiser]

6 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

NCL has recently discontinued it, but Pride of America has been cruising the Na Pali coast every week for years. It was one of the highlights of the cruise.

It's one of the most beautiful places on Earth, so I don't doubt it, but I don't think they ever were that close to land.

[Mark_K]

3 minutes ago, MMMCruiser said:

It's one of the most beautiful places on Earth, so I don't doubt it, but I don't think they ever were that close to land.

I expect they followed the rules doing it every week, but you suggested you had never seen one at all. I was just noting that there were regular visits, so Edge cruising it was not an unusual event.

[MMMCruiser]

5 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

I expect they followed the rules doing it every week, but you suggested you had never seen one at all. I was just noting that there were regular visits, so Edge cruising it was not an unusual event.

I will try to say it more clearly.  I never saw a ship that size in the close-in area of the NaPali Coast.  I've seen tiny zodiaks and mid-size tourist boats, but no actual ships anywhere that close to the island.  I also realize that we don't know how close the Edge really was, because it depends on the camera angles and zooms, but at this point it seems like they were closer in than a cruise ship normally gets. 

[Steeler808]

4 hours ago, critterchick said:

Thanks for the support. Kauai is my favorite place on earth and I hate to think that I was an unknowing participant in causing damage to the sea floor. It was indeed a thrilling view but it’s going to have to be a “guilty pleasure” memory for me.

I've lived my entire life on one of the Hawaiian islands. Been around the water my entire life as well. If you didn't see it YT- March 2024 Sand Update Kua Bay. Sand gets kicked up and moved around a bunch here in the islands. I doubt the amount of sand kicked up by the ship would be more than that kicked up by a decent sized swell so I highly doubt any real damage was done. And even if it was it's not your fault in the slightest. 

 

My and most locals biggest issue is that IF the ship got too close what kind of damage would have been done if it got stuck, either by going to shallow due to oversight or if there were a mechanical issue and were pushed ashore by waves, current, winds. 

[DingoMom]

@MMMCruiser, welcome to Cruise Critic. I value your opinion, and you are very well-spoken! I can feel your love for Hawaii in your words.

@critterchick, thank you for your comments (and photos!). I highly respect your DH’s point of view, and I thank both of you for his / your dedicated service to our country.

@chengkp75, I Always love it when you weigh in, because I learn so much! Thank you for your ongoing input!

 

This thread is very interesting to me on so many fronts. The ecological impact is very, Very sad. With respect to Capt Matt, his post-incident behavior is indeed concerning. But i don’t believe ship captains wake up and look in the mirror and think “how can I mess up today?” I do know the Captain is responsible for everything that happens on his watch. It will be very interesting to see what the investigation(s) uncover. 
 

There is room on this thread for multiple opinions, and even speculation. But I, for one, appreciate the respectful comments that are not berating other posters or injecting snarkiness just because they can.

 

Cruise safely and happily!

 

[lhsail]

This is difficult for me to learn about and it does sound like at the least a mistake was made. We have sailed with Captain Matt a few times and have had the opportunity to visit with him on multiple occasions. Have always found him a kind, gracious and respectful man.  

[NMTraveller]

 

Cruise ships caught sailing illegally close to Kauai's Na Pali Coast (usatoday.com)

 

It made it to National News.  Does anyone know which other ship got too close?

Edited May 9 by NMTraveller

[yogini06]

12 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

 

Cruise ships caught sailing illegally close to Kauai's Na Pali Coast (usatoday.com)

 

It made it to National News.  Does anyone know which other ship got too close?

This article suggests another RCI ship

https://www.thegardenisland.com/2024/05/09/hawaii-news/hta-dlnr-following-up-on-reports-of-cruise-ships-venturing-too-near-na-pali-coast/

[Honolulu Blue]

13 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Does anyone know which other ship got too close?

 

50 minutes ago, yogini06 said:

This article suggests another RCI ship

https://www.thegardenisland.com/2024/05/09/hawaii-news/hta-dlnr-following-up-on-reports-of-cruise-ships-venturing-too-near-na-pali-coast/

Thanks for the article link. The article mentions Ovation OTS in addition to the Edge.

 

This situation worries me a little because I have a transpacific sailing on Ovation in a few months. If Hawaii is angry enough and fast enough and has enough enforcement power to force a ban on RCI from Hawaii or its waters, then that cruise could be in jeopardy.

 

Yes, I know, it's a series of unlikely events, but you never know.

 

I'll keep monitoring this in lurk mode.

[kwokpot]

52 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

Thanks for the article link. The article mentions Ovation OTS in addition to the Edge.

 

This situation worries me a little because I have a transpacific sailing on Ovation in a few months. If Hawaii is angry enough and fast enough and has enough enforcement power to force a ban on RCI from Hawaii or its waters, then that cruise could be in jeopardy.

 

Yes, I know, it's a series of unlikely events, but you never know.

 

I'll keep monitoring this in lurk mode.

I was on the Ovation during the sailing in question and it didn't appear that we were too close to the shoreline. These are the photos taken on Wednesday, May 1st from my balcony. 

As an aside our disembarkation in Vancouver is delayed approximately to 7 hours due to a medical evacuation which diverted the ship to the San Francisco Coastline for a helicopter transport ( which due to the distance required a midair helicopter refueling maneuver) .

 

 

Edited May 9 by kwokpot

[hcat]

Beautiful photos..many places and views can be enjoyed from a distance!

[Ferry_Watcher]

Captain Matt Karandreas is in command of the Edge on the 6 day Alaska sailing May 11 - 17.

[Cruise Junky]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:13 AM, kwokpot said:

I was on the Ovation during the sailing in question and it didn't appear that we were too close to the shoreline. These are the photos taken on Wednesday, May 1st from my balcony. 

As an aside our disembarkation in Vancouver is delayed approximately to 7 hours due to a medical evacuation which diverted the ship to the San Francisco Coastline for a helicopter transport ( which due to the distance required a midair helicopter refueling maneuver) .

 

 

You don’t appear to be any closer than we were on NCL Pride of America. 

[kwokpot]

https://kauainownews.com/

[markeb]

19 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

https://kauainownews.com/

 

Is there any actual evidence that they dropped an anchor? Accepting they were way too close, the whole "at anchor" thing just seems silly. With the thrusters and azipods they can stay in place without needing to drop an anchor. I don't know that I've ever been on a cruise ship that actually dropped her anchor.

 

And I'm not minimizing that they got too close to shore. They did. But if this is a legitimate news source, it's not hard to get it right.

[jelayne]

So nothing finalized according to the article.  🥱 

[abbydancer2003]

28 minutes ago, jelayne said:

So nothing finalized according to the article.  🥱 

That's my take.

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, markeb said:

Is there any actual evidence that they dropped an anchor?

None of the photos or video show an anchor deployed.  The aerial footage shows disturbed water around the thrusters and azipods, but no disturbed water ahead of the ship where it would be if an anchor was dropped.  The route shown on vessel tracking sites shows the ship was making a loop, so no anchoring there, and if the ship were rotating around as shown in the aerial footage, with an anchor down, she would not rotate in her own length as she is shown doing, but would rotate around the anchor, sending the stern into the shore.  Now, maybe the other ship that is accused of going too close did anchor, but no evidence has been shown.

[kwokpot]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Now, maybe the other ship that is accused of going too close did anchor, but no evidence has been shown.

I was on the other ship, the Ovation, and the ship position was constantly changing, so I don't think we dropped anchor either.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, kwokpot said:

I was on the other ship, the Ovation, and the ship position was constantly changing, so I don't think we dropped anchor either.

They usually don't for these scenic "drive by's".