Disillusioned with Celebrity, looking for a new cruise line to be loyal to

I think that comment about understanding how cruisers have changed over the past 10-15 years is very perceptive.

 

This would not be restricted to the product itself. It would be extended to how they buy, when they buy, and where they buy. Geographic pricing discrepancies will be a thing of the past.

 

Not to mention what services/products, inclusive or optional, trends are coming or have arrived. Not to mention non traditional on board revenue opportunities for forward thinking cruise lines.

I agree. It is also important to factor in how many berths have been added to the industry's inventory, especially among the premium brands like Crystal, Seaborne, etc. It is a safe assumption that most berths added to an industry sub-category that carves out space above Celebrity, Princess, and Holland America was taken from the upper end of those lines' customer bases. That's clearly going to have impact on where the cruise lines need to target their offerings now.

ALL the cruise lines have changed a lot in the past five years.

I have a feeling that whether you choose HAL or Princess you will have some of the same disappointments that you had on Celebrity. Cost-cutting has hit all the cruise lines, doing away with a lot of luxury feeling.

 

 

Have they really changed a LOT in the last five years though? Or do CC members focus on small changes in a disproportionate way? (And how to account for all the enhancements that have also been made or are being made?)

 

I have been cruising since the 1970s thanks to parents who were early adopters of the new "cruise vacation" as opposed to take a voyage to get somewhere. And I've been reading CC for 10+ years now. Even 10 years ago people were saying the exact same things about changes and cutbacks. The endless formal night wrangles are one of the things I remember most about my early days on this site.

 

As I said on another recent thread, if the cruises had really cut back half as much as has been suggested, we'd all be eating dog food and making our own beds by now....

 

We talk about cutbacks but no one mentions the nicer beds, the higher number of balcony cabins per ship, the more extensive dining options, the wider variety of itinerary choices, etc.

Have they really changed a LOT in the last five years though? Or do CC members focus on small changes in a disproportionate way?

 

I'd vote for the second one.

I'd vote for the second one.

I would have to say it's many small things that make the cruise feel different. True, there is no such as a bad cruise, but Celebrity just doesn't have the same WOW factor it had 5 years ago. It didn't feel any more luxurious than a carnival cruise, and that's a definite negative, IMO.

 

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Have they really changed a LOT in the last five years though? Or do CC members focus on small changes in a disproportionate way?

We also need to consider how much familiarity breeds contempt.

Not sure what you expect calling HAL a "premium" line, because it is not in the class of the pricier ones like Crystal or Regent.

 

It is a very good mass market cruise line with some unique built in advantages like smaller ships and in-house trained crews, compared to other similarly placed mass market lines as you mentioned: Celebrity and Princess.

 

Of course I know HAL is not in the same segment as Azamara or Crystal, but I expect them to provide an experience compared to a level of Princess or X in the former times, many channels communicate those cruise lines as "premium" lines, while Azamara or Crystal are communicated as "deluxe".

 

I expect them to provide some minor details that make tham special, such as Petit Fours in the dining room, tea time or similar events that you expect a fine difference to standard lines such as NCL or Carnival.

It's not that businesses don't care about their loyal customers, it's just that they can't stay in business catering only to them. In fact, if they don't have far more new adopters than "regulars" they'll quickly go out of business. Therefore, as the wants and desires of newer cruisers change, so will the offerings.

 

This was a hard lesson for me to learn when I was first in the hospitality industry. I wrongly focused on my "regulars" until an analysis of sales demonstrated quite clearly that the folks I knew by name and recognized as loyal customers only contributed about 10% of my revenue. While I would have hated to lose that 10%, I certainly could not survive on it. I had to make my product and service decisions based on gaining a steady stream of new customers while doing my best to maintain the regulars.

Edited January 18, 2017 by euro cruiser

Have they really changed a LOT in the last five years though? Or do CC members focus on small changes in a disproportionate way? (And how to account for all the enhancements that have also been made or are being made?)

 

I have been cruising since the 1970s thanks to parents who were early adopters of the new "cruise vacation" as opposed to take a voyage to get somewhere. And I've been reading CC for 10+ years now. Even 10 years ago people were saying the exact same things about changes and cutbacks. The endless formal night wrangles are one of the things I remember most about my early days on this site.

 

As I said on another recent thread, if the cruises had really cut back half as much as has been suggested, we'd all be eating dog food and making our own beds by now....

 

We talk about cutbacks but no one mentions the nicer beds, the higher number of balcony cabins per ship, the more extensive dining options, the wider variety of itinerary choices, etc.

 

Very well stated.

 

At a totally superficial level, I for one am glad things changed on the Maasdam - our first HAL ship because we were most amused by the fire sale carpet mismatches abruptly starting and stopping with no sense of design or decor,.

 

The Show Room at that time went off in three totally different design directions too: the carpet, those cute Delft like tiles at each seat, and the tapestry panels on the wall - all totally different colors and design themes. I remember thinking at the time this was too bad, because there was so much to like about this ship.

 

So overall decor and design coordination has vastly improved on HAL ships which is certainly not the most important part of our own HAL cruise decision, but it is nice to see they express caring in design now, as well as maintaining all the other aspects they have continued to do so well.

 

Just don't mess any more with the Library - quiet reading rooms. Please.

Would I enjoy HAL? Sailed Celebrity for the first time 5 years ago and I was smitten with "modern luxury."

 

I just returned from the exact same cruise I went on 5 years ago, and was so disappointed with how everything has changed. IMO, they are indistinguishable from the Carnival and NCL cruises I've also taken.

 

Sell me on HAL? Would I like it if I'm looking for the modern luxury that Celebrity used to be?

 

Why do you have to be loyal to any line. Do any of them give you anything of significance to repay you for your loyalty. I have absolutely no line loyalty. I pick the cruise and not the line.

 

DON

Would I enjoy HAL? Sailed Celebrity for the first time 5 years ago and I was smitten with "modern luxury."

 

I just returned from the exact same cruise I went on 5 years ago, and was so disappointed with how everything has changed. IMO, they are indistinguishable from the Carnival and NCL cruises I've also taken.

 

Sell me on HAL? Would I like it if I'm looking for the modern luxury that Celebrity used to be?

 

Why do you have to be loyal to any line. Do any of them give you anything of significance to repay you for your loyalty. I have absolutely no line loyalty. I pick the cruise and not the line.

 

I will add this for the people that say that there is no such thing as a bad cruise - there sure are bad cruises. I have taken a few that could easily be classified as "bad" or even worse.

 

DON

Why do you have to be loyal to any line. Do any of them give you anything of significance to repay you for your loyalty. I have absolutely no line loyalty. I pick the cruise and not the line.

 

I will add this for the people that say that there is no such thing as a bad cruise - there sure are bad cruises. I have taken a few that could easily be classified as "bad" or even worse.

 

DON

 

Agree on both points, some cruises I'd rather be at work.

 

And loyalty, what loyalty do they give you, end of the year we will have been on our eighth line.

Why do you have to be loyal to any line. Do any of them give you anything of significance to repay you for your loyalty. I have absolutely no line loyalty. I pick the cruise and not the line.

 

I will add this for the people that say that there is no such thing as a bad cruise - there sure are bad cruises. I have taken a few that could easily be classified as "bad" or even worse.

 

DON

 

No one has to be loyal to a cruise line, but we are "tribal" in lots of other ways too - sports teams, military service, alma maters, birth places, nationalities, citizenships.......

Edited January 19, 2017 by OlsSalt

Just has a point of reference although this has been mentioned and explained numerous times on CC. We use the industry definition of cruise lines here. The Premium Lines are Celebrity, HAL, Princess and Cunard. They all offer similar products and similar prices. Over the years customers of all of the "premium" lines have been complaining about the direction all of them are taking at monetizing everything while at the same time noticing a decline in effort of what use to be called "standard" service.

 

I've sailed 10 times on HAL, once each on Celebrity and Cunard and one future booking on Princess. We prefer HAL for lots of intangible things that we internalize has loyal customers. We love the staff: cabin, dining, bar. We like the pace of the cruise, we like the fellow passengers, we like the food. We have had good experiences with Shore Ex's but not always. When we are on HAL it feels like a more traditional cruise experience.

 

We are fortunate enough to book suites, not always Neptune, sometimes Signature of Vista but Neptunes are the preferred choice if possible and we enjoy HAL's Suite experience.

 

-Paul

Edited January 19, 2017 by kangforpres

We are tribal to the extent that once we have picked our itinerary we want the best possible ship per our preferences at the best possible price.

 

We don't give a hoot what the cruise line happens to be. Don't understand why someone would be loyal to a for profit company only for the sake of being loyal.

 

We gavel up being loyal to hotel chains, airlines, and automobile brands years ago.

We are tribal to the extent that once we have picked our itinerary we want the best possible ship per our preferences at the best possible price.

 

 

 

We don't give a hoot what the cruise line happens to be. Don't understand why someone would be loyal to a for profit company only for the sake of being loyal.

 

 

 

We gavel up being loyal to hotel chains, airlines, and automobile brands years ago.

 

 

We are the same way. For our Med cruise in April/May, we chose the area we wanted then looked at cruises. I laid the choices out and we picked what we thought was the best combination of ports and price. I guess for some, sailing exclusively with one cruise line works, but I find it too limiting and I think change keeps things fresh and interesting.

 

 

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I agree with the others. Anytime you try to repeat an exact experience, you're likely to be disappointed. Things are never the same as the first time. Even if nothing's changed, it will always feel different.

 

Give HAL a try, but don't fall into the loyalty rut. I'm finding cruises are so much better with new experiences.

 

This time, we return from the port to find absolutely no food available at the buffet until 30 to 45 minutes after we had already sailed away.

 

This comment jumped out to most to me. Do not expect better on HAL. HAL has the worst buffet hours of all the lines I've sailed.

It's not that businesses don't care about their loyal customers, it's just that they can't stay in business catering only to them. In fact, if they don't have far more new adopters than "regulars" they'll quickly go out of business. Therefore, as the wants and desires of newer cruisers change, so will the offerings.

I'm sure it's a delicate balance for the cruise lines. But on the other hand, I'm sure a lot of new cruisers are steered toward a particular line by experienced ones. I know several of my friends who have followed my advice as to which cruise would be best for them. I'd hate to see Celebrity, Princess and HAL deteriorate to the point where they're no longer ones I'd consider sailing on or recommending to others.

Have they really changed a LOT in the last five years though? ........

 

I was speaking to the things the OP mentioned in a later post as to their disappointments in no more chocolate buffet, no more grand buffet, buffet hours lessened. Those kinds of changes are across the cruise lines. So yes, a LOT of changes, based on the kinds of things the OP is looking for.

Our last 2 cruises with Celebrity in 2014 were disappointing because of the dining situation. Tables were pushed so close together that waiters reached across a table to serve. Guests at the next table often had to move chairs for you to reach your chair. At this point, we returned to HAL and found a much nicer dining situation.

 

As for activities, we usually entertain ourselves so that does not affect our sailing. Entertainment is acceptable, we pick and choose. Specialty restaurants are more reasonably priced with HAL.

 

Free drinks and internet were nice perks but not enough to remain loyal when the cutbacks were put into place.

I've just got back from my first Celebrity cruise, and remembered this thread. I didn't have any choice of cruise line, as this was a music charter and the company has made a decision to change lines from HAL to Celebrity. The ship that it's using for the foreseeable future is Celebrity Summit.

 

When we left Fort Lauderdale, we were right behind Eurodam. It made me wonder how the Celebrity experience would shape up in comparison to the HAL product which we know well both from charters and normal cruises, including all the changes it's undergone in recent years.

 

A week later, we were back in Fort Lauderdale right next to Eurodam again, with a strong feeling of homesickness. As a cruise experience, the Celebrity week was without doubt the most disappointing mainstream cruise I've ever had. When we next get a chance to plan a cruise where we have a choice, it's most unlikely to be on Celebrity. If we have no choice because we do another music charter, we'll be forewarned and forearmed (and the music on the charter is so good that we might well just put up with the downsides).

 

So I would strongly recommend giving HAL a go. It's not perfect, by any means. But in comparison to what we had last week, we think it's likely to be significantly better.

Thanks Globalizer. Can you give me some specifics about what was disappointing? Did you experience the time periods of no food, like we did, or was our experience an anomaly?

 

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Bottom line for me is I'm a "people person". I enjoy interacting with the crew....getting to know them...finding out more about them, etc. I don't want to talk to a robot bartender. Much of the enjoyment I get is from the friendly encounters with both crewmembers and fellow passengers. To me, the staffing cuts made on all the cruiselines (especially in the dining room) have had the biggest detrimental effect on my overall feelings of a cruise being 'good' or 'great'. Waiters no longer have time to stop by and hang out.....my nieces and nephews all remember their earlier cruises when the waiters would cut their meat or strain their soup because they didn't like the ingredients....or even perform a magic trick. They felt special. The waiters have little time for that now. I'm sure it has affected their bottom line with tips too.

HAL still comes the closest to those traditional feelings of being "special" on a cruise....still the friendliness staff at sea, though they are also being stretched too much.

Someday, I still hope that one of the traditional cruise lines will figure out they can raise prices by a few hundred dollars, IF the service also improves with it. Celebrity owned that market for years, but their cuts have just put them right back in the pack with other big name Lines.

Can you give me some specifics about what was disappointing? Did you experience the time periods of no food, like we did, or was our experience an anomaly?

I can't say that I was affected by any periods when there was actually no food. But it was the first time (in 38 cruises) that I've gone hungry on a ship because there wasn't anything that looked worth eating, through a combination of poor options and poor quality. I ended up eating a lot of green melon (now that was absolutely delicious every day) and other fruit.

 

We did make a list of the things that we found particularly poor, particularly in comparison to HAL:-

1. Cabin cleaning and condition.
2. Balcony cleaning and condition.
3. Bathroom toiletries (in particular, there was no shower gel and just a small bar of face soap for body washing, so I was glad that I’d brought an emergency supply of shower gel).
4. Main dining room food quality (for example “grilled cobia” = two small pieces of dry grilled white fish with a bit of barbecue sauce drizzled on top).
5. Main dining room service (one example: a table-mate used her dinner knife to help her eat her French onion soup – when the soup bowl was cleared, the waiter took the dirty knife off the soup bowl and put it onto her side plate expecting her to use it again for her main course, instead of clearing it away and bringing a clean knife).
6. Main dining room wine service (wine classes chipped on the rims; once when ordering one glass of wine, a different wine of the same grape variety was brought and poured without anything being said about it being a different wine).
7. Buffet food quality (for example, “gourmet entrees” consisting of a choice between chicken a la king and beef stroganoff one evening, and between macaroni bolognese and mini-hamburgers in gravy on another).
8. Buffet arrangement (eg to reach the containers at the back of the salad bar, you had to contort yourself like a gymnast).
9. General maintenance around the ship (loose carpet on stairs, missing non-slip strips on stair nosings, missing electrical window blinds in Revelations).
10. Crew morale, attitude and attention.
11. Cabin size.
12. Onboard prices.

 

I know that in itself this list is an unbalanced approach, because there were some things on the ship that we liked which were better than what we've had on other lines: for example, there's a night light in the cabin bathroom which is an excellent idea; and the gym allowed you to sign up for all 11 of the paid gym classes for $55 if you wished, instead of paying $11 per class. But they were not enough to make up for the things that we didn't like. And a cruise line only has one chance to make a good first impression.

I was on the same cruise Globaliser & agree 100%. I wrote a review but yours is worded much better.

 

 

1. Buffet arrangement (eg to reach the containers at the back of the salad bar, you had to contort yourself like a gymnast)

LOL, spot on. Several times in order to reach the far kettle, my clothes almost dipped into the near one. It was a very strange setup, yet clearly supposed to be self serve. The buffet deserts were super disappointing too. Mostly very airy fluff or when I had the lemon tart it was rubbery and stale.

There are lots of great ships and cruise lines in the market.

 

Why would you want to be 'loyal' to any cruise line?