What would you do about "scaled back" cruise?

I've given this a few days of consideration and thought I'd ask for cruise critic advice.

I just got off Westerdam for July 4-July 11 2015 cruise.

Before I booked this cruise, I compared itineraries and on board activities of various ships and several cruise lines. I selected Westerdam for Sitka and Glacier Bay plus all of the "On Location" speakers, events and activities. NOTE: This is our 2nd Alaska cruise and we had a pretty good idea of what we wanted to see on this trip.

I even re-checked On Location daily papers for other sailings after I got off the ship to make sure I was remembering the typical events correctly (and not over stating this)...

Unfortunately, during this sailing the ship was filled with about 40% (700+ people) traveling with Inspiration Tours which ran their own private musical entertainment, worship services, break-out meetings and kids activities. Plus everyone in this group had priority embarkation and it took forever to board the ship due to the very large numbers in this group.

Please understand, the actual passengers were fine, friendly and an agreeable crowd. My issue is the fact that this group reserved so many of the venues and thus HAL's regular or typical on board stuff was either cancelled or scaled back to account for lack of venues unless it was casino, spa, liquor or shopping related. Thus many of the informational events that should have been given by the On Location Guide didn't happen. Some of the live talks were replaced with generic short movies about Alaska, rather than the specific live talks usually conducted. Plus the Vista lounge only offered the "late" show option for evening entertainment. The early show was a "closed" event for Inspiration Tours.

I understand some of the blame falls on me or "shame on me" for not figuring this out before I boarded. I should have known to search on the internet for tours and charters on the Westerdam. But this was our 9th cruise (4 RCCL, 2 NCL, 1 Carnival and 1 Disney) and I've never had a bad on-board experience like this or encountered such a large tour group. Had I been given the opportunity to reschedule my cruise, I would have done so and opted to go when the ship would be available for all typical activities.

But, I didn't know and I was stuck on a ship with many of the scheduled events that I wanted to attend not happening. It was bored "on board".

While on board, I did discuss my experiences with Guest Services, the Cruise Director, the On Location Activity Guide and other HAL employees. They all agreed that I correctly understood why venues were booked and events were cancelled but could not offer any course of action to provide me with a more satisfactory cruise experience.

Now that I'm home, I've contacted my travel agent who is going to formally complain to HAL about this on my behalf. The concept that I struggle with posed to me by the travel agent is what exactly do I ask for or expect from HAL. My biggest disappointment is the wasted vacation opportunity with respect to time off of work which cannot be replaced. I realize that I can't get my time back, but it was really unfair for HAL to sell me a cruise and then not deliver on their typical experience. My analogy is this cruise was like "looking forward to reservations at the best steakhouse in town only to find out I was there on vegetarian night".

The cabins were fine (both veranda and inside), the food was good, ports were good, but the overall on board experience was lacking (in my opinion). It's not like the entire cruise was bad, but it definitely was not the premium experience I had expected.

It's really annoying to find the official HAL policy on their website which states

"Q: Is there a maximum number of guests for an incentive group with Holland America Line?

A: Holland America Line's current policy restricts each group to a maximum of 50 percent of the ship's lower berth capacity. This allows all of our valued guests to enjoy the same premium onboard experience that Holland America Line is known for.

The number of tours guests on our ship was less than this; however, the group was too large and it did not allow for the other 60% to have a premium onboard experience.

So if you were in my shoes, what would you do, if anything?

Did you eat 3 or 4 or 5 or more meals each day? Did the ship go to each port, as scheduled? Did the cruise start or end as scheduled? Were the bars open, the drinks cold? Was your cabin cleaned every day- twice?

If the answers to each are yes, I don't think you have much to complain about.

Having been on two, back to back cruises with 500 people on each, in groups, we experienced almost zero impact on our cruise. We noticed one or perhaps two venues occupied each day, but they weren't venues we would normally use at those times anyway. No impact on our cruise.

Sadly what you describe happens on most main line cruise companies and it a great inconvenience to those not a part of the group. I truly feel for you as we encountered a similar situation once. It doesn't matter what the group is but rather that they have priority for everything and as you say activities are cut and access to venues is denied in favor of the group.

What irks me is even is directly asked, most cruise lines will not answer directly and advise how large the group is or usually will not even confirm there is a group. The reason for that is obvious.

In contrast to Cruiser Bruce, we were denied access to Crows Nest every night of the cruise, we were forced to leave aft pool on a beautiful day at sea in the Caribbean so the group could have a private pool party and more of that sort of thing.

I don't know what you should ask for and what is reasonable (if anything) to expect. By all means, advise headquarters customer relations people in Seattle and have your TA follow through with conversations. This is by far not the first nor likely the last this large group experience occurs. They pay a lot of money and as we know, it's all about revenue.

I've given this a few days of consideration and thought I'd ask for cruise critic advice.

 

So if you were in my shoes, what would you do, if anything?

It never hurts to inform HAL in a cordial manner of your disappointment with the cruise. Perhaps it will lead to a future on-board credit or some other restitution.

You are a clear and good writer and you present your case eloquently. I second the suggestion to let HAL know your feelings -- in writing.

I would have been very disappointed too and don't blame you at all. Please do let HAL know, and let us know what comes of it.

The fact that the Vista Lounge only offered the late show option-- that alone would make me unhappy, not to mention the other problems you had.

You were not getting the promised product, IMO - only a very scaled back version. I also agree you should write to HAL with your concerns, and please let us know the outcome.

I agree with the others about contacting HAL. I don't know if I'd ask for anything specific. The one person I know who wrote to HAL after a less than satisfactory cruise did it more as an FYI. She didn't ask for anything, nor did she expect anything, but HAL stepped up to the plate.

I do know that if I were in a similar situation that I wouldn't come back here and post anything more than 'We reached a satisfactory arrangement' (or not, as the case may be).

You have a valid complaint and I wish you luck.

I understand your frustration and dissatisfaction, and agree that you should write a letter of complaint detailing your dissatisfaction.

But do you have an idea of what you consider to be fair recompense? What do you want from Holland America as a result of your dissatisfaction? In concrete, and reasonable, terms, you need to say what the line could do to make your experience better. One of the biggest things people neglect when they complain is to offer reasonable solutions. (And just to be clear, I do not think a free cruise is a reasonable expectation -- you took the cruise, and by your own admission enjoyed yourself in all the ports and had no issue with the food or ship services.)

Obviously, not having the group on your cruise would the biggest thing, but that ship has quite literally sailed. So what can Holland America do now to make you happy? What do you want to come from your complaint?

Did you eat 3 or 4 or 5 or more meals each day? Did the ship go to each port, as scheduled? Did the cruise start or end as scheduled? Were the bars open, the drinks cold? Was your cabin cleaned every day- twice?

 

If the answers to each are yes, I don't think you have much to complain about.

 

Having been on two, back to back cruises with 500 people on each, in groups, we experienced almost zero impact on our cruise. We noticed one or perhaps two venues occupied each day, but they weren't venues we would normally use at those times anyway. No impact on our cruise.

(Bolding mine)

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I'm very glad for you that such groups have not impacted your cruising experience, but, from what the OP stated, the activities and areas advertised as being available to everyone for the cruise were not, in fact, available to everyone - not due to some unavoidable emergency or something, but due to giving certain passengers preferential treatment, at the expense of other, paying passengers.

That is just not ok, and not fair.

What if a group of people in recovery or non-drinkers for other reasons sailed on a regular cruise, and the line decided to close down and/or severely restrict the availability of alcohol for that cruise, in deference to them? Now, that certainly wouldn't impact my cruise experience at all, since I'm in recovery myself, but what about the seemingly huge number of people who fully expect to imbibe freely on board? Even if all the other features of the cruise were present, except that one thing would you feel that's fair?

I surely don't! And if it happened, even though it may make it more pleasant for me, in some respects, I'd be right there telling people the same thing that most folks are telling the OP! Contact HAL and make if very clear, in no uncertain terms (politely, but not backing down), that you feel you were unduly slighted out of planned activities, and that you want them to make it right.

I could see if they put a notice up well in advance of sailing, letting everyone know that many activities/areas for those not part of the group(s) would be restricted, so they could make an informed decision about their travel plans, but it reads like this was not the case.

You certainly made your case here very well.

Do the same thing with HAL. You might do a better job than your TA and/or you might want to send along your own letter.

And for the record, I agree with you.

Like the others, I would probably put it in HAL's court and see what they do. I doubt that anything would be good enough as no one can replace time - it is priceless.

And please do come back and report if HAL responded to your satisfaction. It will probably take a bit of time to hear, but I suspect you will.

Sorry to hear that this group impacted your cruise. It is a shame when this happens.

OP

I am so sorry that this happened to you. And I can understand how you feel about so many activities on the ship not taking place.

It has happened to us as well. Not recently. But several years ago before a person here on CC started to collect information and post about dry docks and charters.

It was not a good cruise as the Crows Nest and several other places on the ship were closed in the evenings because of so many private parties. Trivia and Bingo were cancelled a couple of days.

Glad you are going to have your TA write to HAL in your behalf.

It never hurts to inform HAL in a cordial manner of your disappointment with the cruise. Perhaps it will lead to a future on-board credit or some other restitution.

I agree , It happened to us once on a different cruise line 70% of the guest were with a group..

I understand your frustration and dissatisfaction, and agree that you should write a letter of complaint detailing your dissatisfaction.

 

But do you have an idea of what you consider to be fair recompense? What do you want from Holland America as a result of your dissatisfaction? In concrete, and reasonable, terms, you need to say what the line could do to make your experience better. One of the biggest things people neglect when they complain is to offer reasonable solutions. (And just to be clear, I do not think a free cruise is a reasonable expectation -- you took the cruise, and by your own admission enjoyed yourself in all the ports and had no issue with the food or ship services.)

 

Obviously, not having the group on your cruise would the biggest thing, but that ship has quite literally sailed. So what can Holland America do now to make you happy? What do you want to come from your complaint?

I can't add to this excellent post.

OP, I understand how you feel.

Yes they got you to your ports, yes they fed you. And yes, you could have found out about the large group--but not easily. You have to do a lot of searching to find that info. HAL never mentions it on their website. (I don't think any cruise line does) So while they didn't lie, they could have been more forthcoming with the truth, to help you be an informed traveler.

We've just returned from a Cunard transatlantic, with lots of fantastic speakers, a variety of entertainers, a full day of activities on every sea day. Now I'm imagining that same crossing without the speakers, with only one late show (we tend to keep an early schedule when we travel), with afternoon tea in the Queens Room limited to the special group. I would NOT be happy, and you can bet I'd write to Cunard.

In your situation, I would write to complain about the cruise not meeting your expectations, which were based on time-consuming research about what happens on a "typical" HAL cruise to Alaska. I think your analogy of a steakhouse having "vegetarian night" is perfect, and you should definitely include it. To make your letter positive, you might include a suggestion that they make information about large groups and charters available on the website.

I wouldn't ask for anything. You can't get the week back. In your situation, I think I'd just want an apology and for someone at HAL to admit that the cruise was less than it should have been.

OP

I am so sorry that this happened to you. And I can understand how you feel about so many activities on the ship not taking place.

It has happened to us as well. Not recently. But several years ago before a person here on CC started to collect information and post about dry docks and charters.

It was not a good cruise as the Crows Nest and several other places on the ship were closed in the evenings because of so many private parties. Trivia and Bingo were cancelled a couple of days.

Glad you are going to have your TA write to HAL in your behalf.

Can someone tell me how to find out about charters and dry dock? Thanks.

It has happened to us as well. Not recently. But several years ago before a person here on CC started to collect information and post about dry docks and charters.

 

We are booked on the 2nd cruise for the Koningsdam (April 15, 2016). Originally, before the announced launch delays, this was going to to be either the 4th or 5th cruise, I don't remember. Anyway I thought that would be far enough along not to loaded with VIP's and travel executives. Shortly after the launch delays were announced, with consequent reshuffling of bookings I assume, the availability of Neptune Suites went to 'sold out.' Even though the CC list of charters and groups does not show anything for the Koningsdam for this cruise I am worried that we will be on a 'charter' for all intents and purposes, at least among the suite guests. For the premium cost of this cruise I am worried we may be set up for disappointment. We always sail Neptune Suites and would be severely disappointed if we do not have the expected cruise experience. I have emailed my concerns to my PCC, but of course he doesn't really know anything yet.

For those who have sailed early cruise on new ships, do I really have anything to worry about?

Dennis

I appreciate everyone's input and point of view.

I will follow up in the future. I am just so disappointed in HAL. I don't expect a free cruise or huge payday out of this. Really there's no compensation for "my time" and my missed opportunity to be on a full activity cruise.

There should be a way for people to know about these charters that are going to disrupt the "norm". I know that's just a pipe dream

As far as the "drinks being cold", I can't comment. I'm not much of a drinker and didn't plan for drinking to be a major on board activity. It really was about the other events. I wonder if the drinkers had a better cruise than me. Lol.

Can someone tell me how to find out about charters and dry dock? Thanks.

The post is on page 3. I can't figure out how to post the thread link here.

I, too, am interested in knowing how you find out if a charter or large group is going to be on your sailing.

Even though the CC list of charters and groups does not show anything for the Koningsdam for this cruise I am worried that we will be on a 'charter' for all intents and purposes, ...

 

 

For those who have sailed early cruise on new ships, do I really have anything to worry about?

Under no stretch of the definition will you be sailing with a "charter" unless you book the cruise through the charter.

In this case you are wondering about the equivalent of a "group".

I was on both the inaugural and second cruise of the E-dam. The VIPs, TAs, press, and other people to impress were long gone by the second cruise. They had a great presence on the 3-day pre-inaugural, but then left.

For the inaugural and second cruises, it was just like any other cruise.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry.

Here is a link to the current charters/group thread: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2231393&highlight=charters

To post a link, just go to the thread that you want to link to. At the top of your screen, where one would normally type in the website they want to visit, the URL for the thread will show. Just copy that URL, and paste it in the response for the other thread in which you want to post the link. At least, that's what I've done and it's worked for me.

Ruth

Thanks for the confident support.... I will stop worrying....

:)

Dennis

Did you eat 3 or 4 or 5 or more meals each day? Did the ship go to each port, as scheduled? Did the cruise start or end as scheduled? Were the bars open, the drinks cold? Was your cabin cleaned every day- twice?

 

 

 

If the answers to each are yes, I don't think you have much to complain about.

Really?

It's also a good idea to simply google your ship, destination and cruise date.