WARNING: P&O cost cutting.

[Wiltonian]

When all they do is grunt at you - yes, I mean that literally - pointing to a hand-written sign saying 'look at the iris camera' because they can't be bothered to speak, it's hard to argue! LA immigration, circa 2008.

[Denarius]

Latest cutback all beverages in flight, except tea/coffee after meals and tap water "on request" See separate thread on Caribbean flights. P&O really is becoming bargain basement.

[NSWP]

Latest cutback all beverages in flight, except tea/coffee after meals and tap water "on request" See separate thread on Caribbean flights. P&O really is becoming bargain basement.

But surely that is not P&O's fault, no drinks on the flight, but is an Airline issue. OR is it that P&O is booking the low cost airline for its fly/cruise packages?

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

But surely that is not P&O's fault, no drinks on the flight, but is an Airline issue. OR is it that P&O is booking the low cost airline for its fly/cruise packages?

 

I may be wrong but I believe if P&O charter the aircraft, they call the shots in terms of meals, drinks when they negotiate the price with the airline.

[jeanlyon]

Correct. If they charter the aircraft, they decide what you get. If it's a scheduled flight, then the airline provides its usual service.

[tartanexile81]

Following on from my earlier post about our time in 2 ports being cut short on our forthcoming cruise on Azura, we were just looking at a January 2015 cruise to the Caribbean. We've done this a few times but in 2015 it will take TEN days to get to Antigua, with a stop in the Azores instead of Madeira - which makes the route shorter anyway. I like sea days but that is just ridiculous!

[jeanlyon]

Blimey, it was less days than that on the Athena. Falmouth to the Caribbean stopping at the Azores on the way. Athena is only 15000 tons. Ha ha. Mind you she has a liner profile, built in 1939 at the Stockholm.

[terrierjohn]

Looking at this years brochure all Transatlantics seem to take 10 days to the first Caribbean port, which is generally St Maarten, including a stop in the Azores. The only TA in Jan 2015 is on Adonia which stops in Lisbon as well as the Azores and arrives in St Maarten 13 days after leaving Southampton but only 10 after leaving Lisbon.

This seems to be unchanged from normal crossing times.

[Host Sharon]

We have 3 to Madeira next Jan, then 6 to Barbados.

[tartanexile81]

Terrierjohn,

Adonia is a fly cruise and we do a return TA. We've done this for the past few winters on Oceana and it was Oceana I was looking at for 2015 - E501 or E503. We've only visited St Maarten once and we've either gone to St Lucia or Antigua first.

 

Actually, what is worse than the time taken to get there is the fact that instead of 8 ports in the Caribbean on E403, on E503 there will be 5 Caribbean ports, with the cruise shortened even further from 28 to 24 days. I don't know if the price has been cut accordingly as I don't have the original brochure for 2014. We have visited some great ports on these return TAs - the Windward and Leeward islands of course as well as New Orleans, Florida, Charleston, Panama Canal, Mexico, Aruba ... etc and I just feel sad that this is now reduced to 24 days visiting 5 ports in the Caribbean. So many people on these cruises have been loyal to P&O but are keen to visit interesting new ports of call. I just think it's all part of the bigger cost-cutting agenda to increase profits. I have always loved our P&O cruises but I really don't like what is happening now.

[terrierjohn]

Terrierjohn,

Adonia is a fly cruise and we do a return TA. We've done this for the past few winters on Oceana and it was Oceana I was looking at for 2015 - E501 or E503. We've only visited St Maarten once and we've either gone to St Lucia or Antigua first.

 

Actually, what is worse than the time taken to get there is the fact that instead of 8 ports in the Caribbean on E403, on E503 there will be 5 Caribbean ports, with the cruise shortened even further from 28 to 24 days. I don't know if the price has been cut accordingly as I don't have the original brochure for 2014. We have visited some great ports on these return TAs - the Windward and Leeward islands of course as well as New Orleans, Florida, Charleston, Panama Canal, Mexico, Aruba ... etc and I just feel sad that this is now reduced to 24 days visiting 5 ports in the Caribbean. So many people on these cruises have been loyal to P&O but are keen to visit interesting new ports of call. I just think it's all part of the bigger cost-cutting agenda to increase profits. I have always loved our P&O cruises but I really don't like what is happening now.

I suspect that its a more to do with passenger demand than P&O cutting back, its much easier to fill a ship on a 24 night cruise rather than some of the old 35 night ones. Its all down to cost and what people are prepared to pay for a holiday, I imagine you could get 500 or 600 prepared to pay for 35 nights, but nowadays you need to fill a 2000 berth ship to make the pppd attractive, and that also means pricing it down to as few a number of nights as is practical.

[tartanexile81]

I suspect that its a more to do with passenger demand than P&O cutting back, its much easier to fill a ship on a 24 night cruise rather than some of the old 35 night ones. Its all down to cost and what people are prepared to pay for a holiday, I imagine you could get 500 or 600 prepared to pay for 35 nights, but nowadays you need to fill a 2000 berth ship to make the pppd attractive, and that also means pricing it down to as few a number of nights as is practical.

 

Sorry terrierjohn, I don't for a minute believe that most of these longer cruises are not in high demand. The 35 and 28 day cruises are always heavily over-subscribed. For example, when we first enquired about E401 in April this year it was FULLY booked. How many other cruises do you know which have that much demand and are booked up 9 months in advance? We were waitlisted for a balcony of any grade and eventually, in June, we were offered a guaranteed fare which we didn't want as we like to choose a cabin. At that stage we decided to cut our losses and book for the E403 and we had virtually no choice of balcony cabin.

 

Many people like us love these longer cruises where they have the opportunity to visit new ports in a different part of the world instead of the usual Mediterranean for 17 days. Equally many of these people are repeat cruisers. The reason these have been shortened, no doubt, is because P&O (or rather Carnival) make more profit from a 24 nighter followed by 11 nights to The Canaries. passenger demand.

 

If you check now you will see that both cruises are virtually sold out whereas there is availability in all categories for E402 the cruise between them both.

[daiB]

Sorry terrierjohn, I don't for a minute believe that most of these longer cruises are not in high demand. The 35 and 28 day cruises are always heavily over-subscribed. For example, when we first enquired about E401 in April this year it was FULLY booked. How many other cruises do you know which have that much demand and are booked up 9 months in advance? We were waitlisted for a balcony of any grade and eventually, in June, we were offered a guaranteed fare which we didn't want as we like to choose a cabin. At that stage we decided to cut our losses and book for the E403 and we had virtually no choice of balcony cabin.

 

Many people like us love these longer cruises where they have the opportunity to visit new ports in a different part of the world instead of the usual Mediterranean for 17 days. Equally many of these people are repeat cruisers. The reason these have been shortened, no doubt, is because P&O (or rather Carnival) make more profit from a 24 nighter followed by 11 nights to The Canaries. passenger demand.

 

If you check now you will see that both cruises are virtually sold out whereas there is availability in all categories for E402 the cruise between them both.

 

 

Thats excellent we could do thst one.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

I think we can expect less port visits and very slow sea days in the future. This is what Carnival's Micky Arison has to say on the matter:

 

Arison: “We face a weak economic situation in Europe. Spain and Italy are heavily impacted. Southern Europe is going to continue to struggle. Europe is a very significant piece of our business, representing about 35% of annual revenue.

“Fuel has become another big issue. A lot of our ships were designed in a low-price fuel environment. Over the last six to eight years, fuel costs have more than quadrupled.

“To control them, we are conserving. The biggest single thing is slowing ships down, which saves on fuel. In the last five years, our fuel consumption is down 21% per passenger. We are projecting our fuel consumption per passenger to be down another 5% this fiscal year.”

[jeanlyon]

Hmmm that only means a reduced cruise experience for most people. I shall be looking elsewhere. They are not all doing it.

[daiB]

I think we can expect less port visits and very slow sea days in the future. This is what Carnival's Micky Arison has to say on the matter:

 

Arison: “We face a weak economic situation in Europe. Spain and Italy are heavily impacted. Southern Europe is going to continue to struggle. Europe is a very significant piece of our business, representing about 35% of annual revenue.

“Fuel has become another big issue. A lot of our ships were designed in a low-price fuel environment. Over the last six to eight years, fuel costs have more than quadrupled.

“To control them, we are conserving. The biggest single thing is slowing ships down, which saves on fuel. In the last five years, our fuel consumption is down 21% per passenger. We are projecting our fuel consumption per passenger to be down another 5% this fiscal year.”

 

Thank you PIB, this is exactly what I have been saying to save fuel they go slower. And have shorter time in port. And it has been happening in Carnival for 5 year.

 

It seems to impact on P&O most because of the long distances sailed compared with cruise lines staying in the Med and doing say Barcelona to Venice.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[bee-ess]

Thank you PIB, this is exactly what I have been saying to save fuel they go slower. And have shorter time in port. And it has been happening in Carnival for 5 year.

 

It seems to impact on P&O most because of the long distances sailed compared with cruise lines staying in the Med and doing say Barcelona to Venice.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

Celebrity sail from Southampton to the Med and they don't seem to be leaving ports early and they publish their port times on their website before you book. P&O don't publish port times on their website so you book blind.

[jeanlyon]

Fred O also sails from Dover and Southampton and other places in the UK to the Med and elsewhere. Their ships are smaller and slower anyway, but their port times are very good.

[annieuk]

When it comes down to it doesn't it mean that either we accept that port times will be shorter (cost of port fees) and that number of port days may be reduced or that fares will rise? Cruise lines have to decide whether to keep the fares as low as they can and cut back in other ways or to raise fares, and keep the longer port calls etc. I can't see, given the economic situation that we can expect that nothing changes, surely somewhere something has to change? Maybe we are being unrealistic.

[bee-ess]

When it comes down to it doesn't it mean that either we accept that port times will be shorter (cost of port fees) and that number of port days may be reduced or that fares will rise? Cruise lines have to decide whether to keep the fares as low as they can and cut back in other ways or to raise fares, and keep the longer port calls etc. I can't see, given the economic situation that we can expect that nothing changes, surely somewhere something has to change? Maybe we are being unrealistic.

 

I agree with you, that is exactly the current situation. My point is that P&O don't publish their port times at the time of booking when you can decide if you want the shorter port times or go to another company. Once you have booked based on a published itinerary, that's what should be adhered too, barring extreme weather etc. Many customers would be happy to pay a bit more with another company for longer in port, I certainly don't want shorter port stays, I enjoy time at sea but equally like full days in port.

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

I think the main thing in all this is honesty and transparency. If a company markets a cruise and says 'we will be leaving ports at 3pm do you want to book with us?'. That's one thing. But when companies says 'we will be leaving port at 6pm, do you want to book with us?' We do book then they leave port at 3pm, that's different. All I expect is honesty and to receive what I have paid for .

[sez809]

Sorry, just caught up with this thread & as a relative novice wanted to say thanks for the tip re CruiseTT, which I hadnt heard of!

 

I have now been able to look at our proposed timings for our Canary Islands cruise. This will be our first with P&O after several with Princess, and one with Royal Caribbean. It will interesting to compare!

[jeanlyon]

I read somewhere else that one cruise left Barcelona at 4pm. The next port was Cannes which is no distance at all, so it's not only fuel but port charges as well.

 

To the person above, my port times on Cruise TT are nothing like the times if you check on the actual port like Valletta or Venice.

[daiB]

I read somewhere else that one cruise left Barcelona at 4pm. The next port was Cannes which is no distance at all, so it's not only fuel but port charges as well.

 

To the person above, my port times on Cruise TT are nothing like the times if you check on the actual port like Valletta or Venice.

 

Barcelona to Cannes is 277 nm with a cruising speed of 22 knots 12 hours at 18 knots that would be 14 hours, not my figures, taken from a web site.

 

So your assumption above is not quite as bad as you make out. Leaving at 16.00 would give a 06.00 arrival. And 18 knots is a fair speed to be going.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[kruzseeka]

Barcelona to Cannes is 277 nm with a cruising speed of 22 knots 12 hours at 18 knots that would be 14 hours, not my figures, taken from a web site.

 

So your assumption above is not quite as bad as you make out. Leaving at 16.00 would give a 06.00 arrival. And 18 knots is a fair speed to be going.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

But given your figures wouldn't a 18.00 departure with a 08.00 arrival at the next port be more customer friendly? Much as I love my port days, I'm certainly not up for getting off the shp at 06.00 - an extra two hours at the previous port I would see as far more useful. Or is there a good reason to get people back on board early - the timings apparently don't dictate that they need to leave at 16.00 to make the next port in good time?