36 minutes to change planes in SFO?

[MarkBearSF]

In February 2013, SFO had an on-time arrival rate of 81.47% and 80.38% in 2012. (source: http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/subject_areas/airline_information/airline_ontime_tables/2013_02/table_03)

You have a 1 in 5 chance of not making your connection. Do you feel lucky?

 

...and February 2013 was almost totally dry in SF. There are often winter storms in February, requiring one of the two runways to be closed.

Edited December 4, 2013 by MarkBearSF

[boogs]

Ever been on a plane where everyone takes their sweet time getting off the aircraft and you're in the middle to the back of the plane?

Nope. Too stressful

 

Or on a plane sitting on the tarmac waiting for a late departing plane to clear your gate? We waited 35 minutes last year in Frankfurt waiting for another plane to get out of the way. Fortunately, we had a 1-1/2 hour layover, which gave us enough time left to relax and not stress out during our hike to our connection flight.

Edited December 4, 2013 by boogs

[elena7seas]

Wow, that is a very tight connection. You say you want to avoid cities that are snowbound? One March we were flying Vancouver to Fort Lauderdale with a connection in Toronto. We crossed our fingers there would be no weather/snow problems in Toronto.

 

Well, the night before we flew out, there was an overnight temp drop in Vancouver. We ended up stuck on the tarmac at YVR while the plane was queued up for de-icing. We missed the Toronto connection because of weather in Vancouver not Toronto.

 

So you just never know.....

 

I once spent 3-1/2 hours on the tarmac in YVR for de-icing, and they wouldn't let us out of the plane. I was with my dear old Dad who was a committed smoker and truly, it wasn't much fun. That was in December though. It would be more of a surprise in March in YVR, but I do know that anything can happen.

[elena7seas]

Elena, an Excellent risk assessment that you've presented. An earlier post did mention a how to mitigate an adverse outcome if you miss your flight and that is what options do you have of other flights.

 

I'd recommend you look at this as what is the risks of not making it aboard before the cruise departs, not the risk of missing that specific flight.

 

Good luck!

 

Den

 

Hi Denny:

 

Thanks :).

 

The answer to that question is why I am still in the game.

 

There are quite a few later flights if we miss the 8:56 AM flight to Fort Lauderdale. Plus, if worst comes to worst, Nassau is the next port on the day after embarkation, so it's not like we couldn't get to the ship.

 

The people at Choice Air were trying to encourage me to take the gamble, using this "assured arrival" policy, from Celebrity's website:

 

ChoiceAir: Assured Arrival gives you peace of mind by knowing, if and when flight schedules are disrupted, we're with you 24/7 working with our airline partners to rebook your flights. Celebrity will work with the airlines to get you to your port on an alternate flight, or if necessary, to the closest available port.

 

I am aware of the limitations to Choice Air's interpretation of "will work with you", but I would have a list of all possible flights with me, if we should take the gamble.

Edited December 4, 2013 by elena7seas

[AlkiRagdoll]

I am a million miler on United and Alaska Airlines -- while there are days that you can do a 30 minute connection, there are many days that you cant do a 60 minute connection. Given the high load factors, I would not risk.

[WpgCruise]

I keep coming back to this thread hoping the O.P. has changed her mind and is rearranging flights.

 

So, here's my contribution to the decision making process for what it's worth.

 

Some excellent points have been made and I'll reinforce them along with adding one not yet made:

 

-If your flight needs to be de-iced you are looking at a half hour at YVR at least. Even without de-icing when was the last time you saw an on time push back, or on time arrival? Remember in the airline game an on time arrival is not when the plane is at the gate with people getting off, it's when the plane lands at the destination airport.

 

-The suggestion of a "Plan B" is great but given how full flights are now days, getting on the next flight is problematical given load factors. The issue of the class of ticket also needs to be understood when forming a "Plan B".

 

-Choice Air does a real poor job of explaining this, but their tickets are not regular economy tickets. Instead they are "Consolidator" tickets meaning they are not transferable to another airline, and in the priority que of the issuing airline are at the bottom of the priority list. There is excellent information available on this site and I encourage you to read it. What this means is if your flight into SFO is delayed, and you miss your connecting flight, the airline will accommodate you only after the needs all full and discounted fare paying passengers have been met. They will not put you on an American or Delta flight, they will only put you on their brand on a space available basis and you could potentially spend days waiting for seats, once again given the load factors of flights. If you think Choice Air will help, if the connection is missed, their help may well be to say "work with the airline, we can't help"

 

-There is no way I would take the flights the O.P. is considering the risks are simply too far out there. Weather, Delays in leaving YVR, Delays in landing at SFO, Delays in getting a gate assignment in SFO, Delays in getting off in SFO, the risk of the connecting gate being at the far end of the airport, all are the factors to be taken into consideration. Then the issue of the "Consolidator" tickets issued by Choice Air has to be taken into consideration.

 

-Having said all this, we all have different risk tolerances and all I offer is an opinion, please come back and let us know what you decide.

Edited December 4, 2013 by WpgCruise

[chepar]

This past June I flew out of YVR (on United) with a 45 minute connection window in SFO, final destination HNL (on United). I usually never schedule such a tight connection but for this occasion I had particular reasons. Originally my connection time was 36 minutes but I gained some time due to a flight schedule adjustment.

 

I knew there were other flights later in the day that I could try to get on if I missed my connection, but I was still sweating bullets about it.

 

The OP will have winter weather considerations and in my instance, I was worrying about possible fog delays.

 

Ultimately I made my connection very easily, with time to spare. It helped that we weren't seated at the back of the plane and my boarding gate was pretty close, maybe 10-15 gates away.

 

However, I don't think I will ever schedule so tight a connection again if I can help it because the tension and worrying about it was not fun.

[dmk]

I don't know SFO well enough to say. That is the type of information I was hoping to find out.

 

I'm pretty sure I had to change terminals going from San Diego to Vancouver via SFO two years ago. It seems to me there was an elevated train involved. If that is the case going from YVR to FLL, then there would be no chance of making the connection, I would think.

 

Hi there:)

Last year we flew from Montreal and changed planes in SFO. We had to go to a different terminal and yes, we had to go through security again.

You'll never make it in 36 minutes.

[maggie.1008]

I have flown through SFO many times. I would not do anything less than an hour. In February you could have snow in Canada, fog in the bay area, just about any delay would mess up your plans.

[elena7seas]

This has been an amazing thread, and all of my questions have been answered in full. Thanks to WPGcruise for putting ChoiceAir's "assured arrival" policy in context.

 

My pro/con list, coupled with my personal risk tolerance (which admittedly is not great), makes it quite clear to me that the itinerary through SFO with the 36 minute window for changing planes is not a choice that I can make.

 

Flight prices on the various YVR-FLL itineraries have been swinging wildly over the last week and a half, so I am going to give it a couple more days until I make a further decision as to which flights to book, but it won't be the $552 rate with the marginal time for changing planes. The Scot in me just can't quite commit to the $904 alternative though, so wish me luck!!

 

Thanks to everyone for all of your comments and suggestions. Each one was very helpful, and I do appreciate that no one called me a complete idiot for even considering an itinerary with such a narrow window. I will now take time to read the Choice Air thread. :D

 

The greatest people post on Cruise Critic. I hope to cruise with you all some day. :)

[Lastdance]

I am delayed 50% of the time in SFO, and I am a risk taker. My response would be definitive: NO

Edited December 4, 2013 by Lastdance

[chrismakris]

Hello elena7seas,

 

I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that heading south there is using a wind that will push you along. My wife and I flew out of YVR a couple of years back to SFO and we arrived 10 minutes earlier than we should have because of a nice wind.

 

I find this happens quite often when I head to Las Vegas as well. I once was at my hotel before my plane was scheduled to arrive.

 

Also I find it weird that United didn't send emails about schedule changes.

 

We are flying to SJU for a Southern Caribbean in one month and United sent us an email with a schedule change yesterday.

 

Anyway, good luck.

[WpgCruise]

Thanks for letting us know your decision.

 

In addition to the ITA site mentioned, Kayak is a good source of flight information. Kayak also has a little window on the left which predicts (not sure how accurate) if the costs will go up or down.

 

For comparison, we booked with United for a January flight from Winnipeg-Chicago-Fort Lauderdale at a ticket cost of just over $700 each.

 

We have a 2 1/2 hour connection window on the way down, and the same on the way home. We're flying in 2 days before the cruise, and leaving the day after the cruise is over. That's tight connection times for us, but should something happen we have time and full fare economy tickets on our side.

 

Best of luck to you

Edited December 4, 2013 by WpgCruise

[Fouremco]

A number of years ago on a business flight Ottawa - Toronto - Paris, my Toronto connection was very generous and of no concern. But my Ottawa departure was delayed for a minor mechanical issue and I had to run through YYZ from the domestic arrival gate to the international departure gate. I arrived as they were closing the gate, but they saw me coming and called out, asking if I was Mr. Fouremco, then reopened it when I replied positively. Down the ramp I went, and watched as the ground crew opened the plane's door. Ooh, did I get some looks walking to my seat!

 

While I was able to board, my luggage was probably still on the Ottawa - Toronto plane while we were taxiing out and didn't catch up to me for about 36 hours. That wasn't a problem, as I arrived on Saturday, my luggage late Sunday and my first meeting wasn't until Monday. But in the OP's case, there's a risk of no luggage for the duration of the cruise if the 36 minutes isn't sufficient to transfer it to the Fort Lauderdale flight.

 

I'd never chance that connection.

[RickT]

 

-Choice Air does a real poor job of explaining this, but their tickets are not regular economy tickets. Instead they are "Consolidator" tickets meaning they are not transferable to another airline, and in the priority que of the issuing airline are at the bottom of the priority list. There is excellent information available on this site and I encourage you to read it. What this means is if your flight into SFO is delayed, and you miss your connecting flight, the airline will accommodate you only after the needs all full and discounted fare paying passengers have been met. They will not put you on an American or Delta flight, they will only put you on their brand on a space available basis and you could potentially spend days waiting for seats, once again given the load factors of flights. If you think Choice Air will help, if the connection is missed, their help may well be to say "work with the airline, we can't help"

 

-There is no way I would take the flights the O.P. is considering the risks are simply too far out there. Weather, Delays in leaving YVR, Delays in landing at SFO, Delays in getting a gate assignment in SFO, Delays in getting off in SFO, the risk of the connecting gate being at the far end of the airport, all are the factors to be taken into consideration. Then the issue of the "Consolidator" tickets issued by Choice Air has to be taken into consideration.

 

 

 

 

Your comments regarding the tickets being "consolidator" tickets may not be correct. The last three Choice Air flights that I booked were definitely NOT consolidator tickets. I confirmed with a friend at Air Canada that the tickets were in every way identical to tickets that could have been purchased from Air Canada. When I did have a problem on one flight I was offered options on a number of different airlines.

 

I'm not saying that Choice Air doesn't use consolidator fares, I'm just saying that some tickets are and some aren't and it's important to know when they are and what this might mean to your travel plans.

 

To the OP, sounds like you have made your decision and will not be attempting the tight (dare I say impossible) connection. Please be sure to check out flight routes/options/pricing using the ITA site I provided. Using this site I have found some great routes/prices that did not come up on the regular travel sites and a few that Air Canada offered but didn't come up on their site either.

 

Good luck.

Edited December 5, 2013 by RickT

[sealover155]

One more thought: If it fits into your schedule an overnight stay in SFO might be much cheaper than the alternate itinerary. We live in Los Angeles and are both million + milers with United and have changed planes there more times than I wish to mention.

 

The riskiest experiences have involved fog at SFO. We now overnight at an airport hotel to eliminate the risk especially if morning flights are involved or an expensive international fare with upgraded seats! Breaking up an international flight by the overnight stay may not increase the fare especially if the layover is less than 24 hours. It is never offered by an agent so you have to ask. It's a great way to start a vacation with a relaxed flight plan.

[boogs]

Choice Air does a real poor job of explaining this, but their tickets are not regular economy tickets. Instead they are "Consolidator" tickets meaning they are not transferable to another airline, and in the priority que of the issuing airline are at the bottom of the priority list. There is excellent information available on this site and I encourage you to read it. What this means is if your flight into SFO is delayed, and you miss your connecting flight, the airline will accommodate you only after the needs all full and discounted fare paying passengers have been met. They will not put you on an American or Delta flight, they will only put you on their brand on a space available basis and you could potentially spend days waiting for seats, once again given the load factors of flights. If you think Choice Air will help, if the connection is missed, their help may well be to say "work with the airline, we can't help"

 

Your comments regarding the tickets being "consolidator" tickets may not be correct. The last three Choice Air flights that I booked were definitely NOT consolidator tickets. I confirmed with a friend at Air Canada that the tickets were in every way identical to tickets that could have been purchased from Air Canada. When I did have a problem on one flight I was offered options on a number of different airlines.

 

I'm not saying that Choice Air doesn't use consolidator fares, I'm just saying that some tickets are and some aren't and it's important to know when they are and what this might mean to your travel plans.

 

I have also used Choice Air several times and the tickets were definitely NOT consolidator tickets. They were regular tickets identical to those I would have gotten through the airlines.

 

Even Celebrity tells us they don't use consolidator tickets. Copied from the Choice Air web site:

 

"The Celebrity ChoiceAir Low Airfare Guarantee does not apply to lower prices provided by websites that withhold airline identity, itinerary or other booking details until the purchase is completed. Also excluded are rates available through membership program websites, corporate discounts or rates, groups, charters, rewards programs, incentive, meeting, convention, consolidator, AARP, AAA, military, government, frequent flyer, loyalty, prizes, sweepstake or awards, transferred points or any other "reward" programs or interline rates, prices obtained via auction or other bid process, redeeming a coupon or other promotion not offered and available to the general public."

Edited December 5, 2013 by boogs

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

Hello elena7seas,

 

I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that heading south there is using a wind that will push you along. My wife and I flew out of YVR a couple of years back to SFO and we arrived 10 minutes earlier than we should have because of a nice wind.

 

I find this happens quite often when I head to Las Vegas as well. I once was at my hotel before my plane was scheduled to arrive.

 

 

The problem with arriving early is that often there's not a gate available. That could gum up the works as well.

 

I've never changed planes in SFO, but if your flight comes in at the international terminal, you'd have to change terminals. No chance of making that connection then.

 

Glad to see you bagged that idea. Just don't think it was feasible. Good luck on finding another option. While you're searching, I wouldn't give up on snowy airports. They're usually equipped to deal with the snow. My worst ever experience with snow was in Raleigh, NC, several Christmases ago. 7" of snow the day after Christmas. In Minnesota that's nothing. In Raleigh, it's a disaster of biblical proportions. Plus the whole east coast had the same problem. We were stuck in Raleigh for 3 extra days. Luckily we had family to stay with.

[riclop]

I have just been offered an itinerary from Choice Air on a trip from YVR to FLL that gives me 36 minutes to change planes in SFO. The airline is United.

 

Under normal circumstances, I would never even consider this, but in all other ways, this is the perfect flight itinerary for us.

 

I have changed planes in SFO on the way home before, but never on the way out.

 

Is it even doable to change planes in SFO in 36 minutes? Are there any chances that our luggage would make the change of planes in that short a time?

 

I am a bit of a gambler, but I don't know if I'm a big enough gambler to try this itinerary.

 

I would appreciate hearing about your experiences with changing planes in SFO.

 

Thanks!

In SFO not a good idea.

[BEAV]

SFO is my home airport. Since you clear US Immigration/Customs in YVR, your flight will arrive SFO at the United domestic terminal. I looked up your flight connections on ITA, and you should not have to change terminals in SFO. If your YVR-SFO flight were on United Express, then it's possible you'd have to change terminals in SFO since some of those flights arrive in the terminal USAir uses and is separate from United's own terminal. If your flight was on United Express and using USAir's terminal, I doubt UA/Choice Air would publish a 36-minute connection (speculating, here).

 

But despite the fact you probably won't have to change terminals, or go through security again, I would not book this connection for the sole purpose that the 8:56am SFO-FLL departure is the ONLY nonstop on this route for the entire day. Actually, the SFO-FLL flight is fairly new, no doubt to compete with JetBlue and Virgin America. Missing the 8:56am departure would automatically cause United to have to reschedule you via a connection in either ORD, DEN, IAD or IAH (Houston). Three of those four cities are possible "snow cities". If I missed the 8:56am, I'd try as much as possible to be routed via Houston vs the other options.

 

Is there any way to orchestrate the same fare by flying YVR-SFO the evening prior, overnight SFO, then 8:56am the following morning SFO-FLL? There are tons of airport hotels in the immediate SFO area.

 

We often fly SFO-Florida in Winter, and almost always book on Delta for the sole purpose of "staying south" via the Atlanta connection vs. United and their "snow cities" connections! Or fly American via DFW.

 

Good luck! ;)

[Keith1010]

There is no way that I would do this.

 

Keith

[SeaGams]

Since SFO is my home airport, I never change planes there, but a 36 minute connection anywhere, while "legal", is too close for my comfort. It sounds as if you are willing to "roll the dice" for the perfect itinerary, however you define that.

 

If you go with this tight connction, arm yourself with a list of alternate flights that might work for you. Do not passively present yourself to the agent at the airport and ask to be re-accommodated. I have found that things work better if I am proactive and present the agent with my preferred flights and see which have available seats.

 

SFO is also one of two home airports for me, the other being Chicago O'Hare. I would not gamble a 36 minute connection at SFO because of delays due to fog, air traffic and slow baggage service. Always have alternate flight information but be prepared for those to be sold out or oversold. SFO is a great airport but not so large that it has a multitude of options, so I would take a later flight and not stress.

[BBsails]

Overnighting near SFO is a great idea. If you decide to do that, Priceline (name your own price) is your friend for booking a hotel in that area.

[richstowe]

The people at Choice Air were trying to encourage me to take the gamble, using this "assured arrival" policy, from Celebrity's website:

 

Choice Air: Assured Arrival gives you peace of mind by knowing, if and when flight schedules are disrupted, we're with you 24/7 working with our airline partners to rebook your flights. Celebrity will work with the airlines to get you to your port on an alternate flight, or if necessary, to the closest available port.

 

I am aware of the limitations to Choice Air's interpretation of "will work with you", but I would have a list of all possible flights with me, if we should take the gamble.

I have booked with Choice Air several times and have been very satisfied BUT on more then one occasion they gave me a booking itinerary with a less then an hour layover.

I decided not to chance it twice and accepted another time. That flight ended up being changed and we were presented with a extended layover which worked out great.

I must say I have been surprised that their system "allows" such short layovers.

 

I have also used Choice Air several times and the tickets were definitely NOT consolidator tickets. They were regular tickets identical to those I would have gotten through the airlines.

 

Even Celebrity tells us they don't use consolidator tickets. Copied from the Choice Air web site:

 

"The Celebrity Choice Air Low Airfare Guarantee does not apply to lower prices provided by websites that withhold airline identity, itinerary or other booking details until the purchase is completed. Also excluded are rates available through membership program websites, corporate discounts or rates, groups, charters, rewards programs, incentive, meeting, convention, consolidator, AARP, AAA, military, government, frequent flyer, loyalty, prizes, sweepstake or awards, transferred points or any other "reward" programs or interline rates, prices obtained via auction or other bid process, redeeming a coupon or other promotion not offered and available to the general public."

Every time the topic of Choice Air comes up , so does this topic.

I don't believe their tickets are heavily discounted consolidator tickets. Speaking to an Air Canada rep one time and a WestJet rep another,

they said my tickets were standard restricted tickets with the same restrictions that I could have gotten from them.

The prices I have paid have been the same (to within a few bucks) to a pretty good discount.

 

The airlines have given me the regular loyalty points. I'm not sure I would have gotten this if the tickets were consolidator tickets.

So far Choice Air has worked very well for me.

[BEAV]

I have booked with Choice Air several times and have been very satisfied BUT on more then one occasion they gave me a booking itinerary with a less then an hour layover.

I decided not to chance it twice and accepted another time. That flight ended up being changed and we were presented with a extended layover which worked out great.

I must say I have been surprised that their system "allows" such short layovers.

 

Every time the topic of Choice Air comes up , so does this topic.

I don't believe their tickets are heavily discounted consolidator tickets. Speaking to an Air Canada rep one time and a WestJet rep another,

they said my tickets were standard restricted tickets with the same restrictions that I could have gotten from them.

The prices I have paid have been the same (to within a few bucks) to a pretty good discount.

 

The airlines have given me the regular loyalty points. I'm not sure I would have gotten this if the tickets were consolidator tickets.

So far Choice Air has worked very well for me.

 

I'm of the opinion that there are times when consolidator tickets are used, and other times where you're simply buying "regular" tickets. Obviously, ChoiceAir isn't going to contract consolidator tickets on every airline, every flight, etc. But I believe there are those isolated instances where they do.....