This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Rustybuttons123]

I can probably find a study that "proves" that the earth is really flat, and the anti-vax crusaders would be happy to show you "proof" that vaccinations are totally unnecessary. Again, it's all about choices, and I choose to believe the overwhelming evidence of studies conducted over the past half-century in countries around the world linking smoking and cancer.

 

Smoking does cause cancer, make no mistake, and that same study confirmed that once again. However, we're discussing cancer and second hand smoke which is not the same thing.

 

The Earth is flat, go look out your window, you can clearly see that it's flat 😀

[Cindy]

Which cruise lines tried a small section of balcony only smoking? Not talking about in cabin smoking, it stinks and most smokers tell me they prefer not to smoke inside if they have a balcony.

 

 

 

When I was planning my first cruise in 2000, I remember one of the cruise lines (I think it was NCL) had a smoking side and a non-smoking side. I'm not sure how long that was their practice or when it ended.

 

It was while I was researching that cruise that I discovered Cruise Critic, which at the time was part of AOL. I think the biggest smoking topic at the time was which lines still had a smoking section in the dining room![emoji15]

 

Times have certainly changed. I understand that for some people, especially long time HAL cruisers who smoke, this is not a welcome development. I think it was inevitable though, and honestly I'm surprised HAL took as long as they did.

 

 

Cindy

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Edited October 4, 2016 by Cindy

[RDC1]

Never understood why they don't try making some cabins allowed to smoke on balconies, not many, and group them together. You'll still have nearby cabins affected but there are non-smokers like myself who don't really care if someone is smoking on their balcony....and for those that really mind well then they'll know where the smoking balconies are and book theirs furthest away.

 

The problem with that is that non-smokers would not want to book around the smoking cabins. You would have increased booking complexity for the cruise line. Literally creating a new class of cabin that would not be bookable to the majority of their cruises. If it is small enough to make sure that it would be booked by smokers, it would need to be a pretty small number. Then the line would have to deal with complaints if it is sold out and more smokers want to book.

 

Bottom line, not worth the increased hassle and complexity.

[RDC1]

A recent large scale study found no statistically significant relationship between cancer and second hand smoke. The study involved people who lived with a smoker for 30+ years. It's been touted by the anti-smoking crowd as cancer causing to justify their mission to remove it from society, and this involved bogus "studies", even signed off on by Surgeon General, etc. You'd have to show a measurable increase in lung cancer in non-smokers who lived with smokers, but there isn't an increase. Even if you have a few cases you still can't attribute it absolutely being from second hand smoke exposure when other things cause lung cancer like exposure to asbestos or radon to name a few. Bottom line is people want to get rid of it and needed something to justify that. They're the same people who claim pot causes cancer too.

 

Would you care to provide a reference to the study. Title, author and journal.

[1of4]

A recent large scale study found no statistically significant relationship between cancer and second hand smoke. The study involved people who lived with a smoker for 30+ years. It's been touted by the anti-smoking crowd as cancer causing to justify their mission to remove it from society, and this involved bogus "studies", even signed off on by Surgeon General, etc. You'd have to show a measurable increase in lung cancer in non-smokers who lived with smokers, but there isn't an increase. Even if you have a few cases you still can't attribute it absolutely being from second hand smoke exposure when other things cause lung cancer like exposure to asbestos or radon to name a few. Bottom line is people want to get rid of it and needed something to justify that. They're the same people who claim pot causes cancer too.

 

You might be right, I can't say. I set limits for contaminants in air for the government and worked in 10-6 or 10-7 which blew my mind that 1 in 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 was acceptable.

 

But my proof was when my own mother looked at me and said "you always told me to stop but I didn't believe you; I thought I was only hurting myself". She said this a day after my father's funeral. They were married for 52 years and my mother smoked for 30 of those years then quit the year I moved out as my Christmas gift. Dad died in 6 weeks from lung cancer.

[Rustybuttons123]

When I was planning my first cruise in 2000, I remember one of the cruise lines (I think it was NCL) had a smoking side and a non-smoking side. I'm not sure how long that was their practice or when it ended.

 

It was while I was researching that cruise that I discovered Cruise Critic, which at the time was part of AOL. I think the biggest smoking topic at the time was which lines still had a smoking section in the dining room![emoji15]

 

Times have certainly changed. I understand that for some people, especially long time HAL cruisers who smoke, this is not a welcome development. I think it was inevitable though, and honestly I'm surprised HAL took as long as they did.

 

 

Cindy

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I remember the rule you had to smoke on a certain side, and it still may be like that, not sure, haven't sailed NCL in years, but that applied to smoking on public decks, not balconies. To my knowledge, no cruise line has tried what I suggested.

 

I used to smoke, quit some years ago, but I remember when we could smoke in our office! And on planes. Yes times have sure changed. I also remember driving without seat belts while drinking a beer! It was legal, though not legal to be drunk, but you can drink a beer or two and still drive...we just did it behind the wheel, of course while smoking a cigarette and shifting gears, we were far more multi tasking in those days.

[1of4]

Well, got the word from my HAL PCC this morning that the word came down the pipes Friday regarding no more balcony smoking.

 

Since I am basically tethered to my stateroom and verandah/balcony, our cruise this November will be my last on HAL.

 

It is so easy for those of you who are mobile to say we smokers can go to the Sea View Bar, Oak Room or ... Easy, that is, if you can do it easily. Some of us cannot.

 

So, while I will be cancelling all of my future cruising, I hope hubby can still enjoy, and even can now cruise to places that I could not/would not.

 

Have fun enjoying your cruises smoke free and the knowledge that you have deprived a large enough percentage of the cruising population of their vacation(s).

 

IRL_Joanie

 

Who is the "you" that is depriving a large percentage of the cruising population?

 

Don't blame others for your own decisions. Nobody but you can cancel your booking. You need to own your decision and not blame others because you are upset.

 

Obviously this was a business decision HAL made and has nothing to do with your decision to only smoke on your balcony.

[Rustybuttons123]

You might be right, I can't say. I set limits for contaminants in air for the government and worked in 10-6 or 10-7 which blew my mind that 1 in 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 was acceptable.

 

But my proof was when my own mother looked at me and said "you always told me to stop but I didn't believe you; I thought I was only hurting myself". She said this a day after my father's funeral. They were married for 52 years and my mother smoked for 30 of those years then quit the year I moved out as my Christmas gift. Dad died in 6 weeks from lung cancer.

 

Non-smokers that never smoked or were never exposed to second hand smoke can get lung cancer. I hope your mother isn't carrying that around with her that she positively was the cause, that's simply unfair and quite a load.

[Cindy]

I remember the rule you had to smoke on a certain side, and it still may be like that, not sure, haven't sailed NCL in years, but that applied to smoking on public decks, not balconies. To my knowledge, no cruise line has tried what I suggested.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure it was for cabins, but it was a long time ago so I might be mistaken.

 

 

 

Cindy

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[SeaBands]

we will think about other than HAL for cruises.

[1of4]

Non-smokers that never smoked or were never exposed to second hand smoke can get lung cancer. I hope your mother isn't carrying that around with her that she positively was the cause, that's simply unfair and quite a load.

 

Mum died 5 years after dad, and not of cancer. I thought she was in deep denial over the impact she had on our family. I never said anything to her other as a teen and asking she not smoke at the dinner table. She drew her own conclusions. How is to say what was the cause. No autopsy so no proof either way.

 

All I know is definatives can not be proven either way. Adding particulate matter into your lungs doesn't have any positive affect though. Any decision to quit is a good one, just as HAL must have seen the benefit to their bottom line to ban verandah smoking.

[navybankerteacher]

A recent large scale study found no statistically significant relationship between cancer and second hand smoke. The study involved people who lived with a smoker for 30+ years. It's been touted by the anti-smoking crowd as cancer causing to justify their mission to remove it from society, and this involved bogus "studies", even signed off on by Surgeon General, etc. You'd have to show a measurable increase in lung cancer in non-smokers who lived with smokers, but there isn't an increase. Even if you have a few cases you still can't attribute it absolutely being from second hand smoke exposure when other things cause lung cancer like exposure to asbestos or radon to name a few. Bottom line is people want to get rid of it and needed something to justify that. They're the same people who claim pot causes cancer too.

 

Can you provide references to that study?

 

I have read articles that the more barriers that are placed to make smoking difficult, the more people will finally make the decision (and the effort) to give up smoking. This indicates that every restriction imposed upon smokers is actually a kindness because it inspires them to take action to preserve their health and save substantial sums of money, while reducing their imposition upon their neighbors.

[mudscraper]

Who is the "you" that is depriving a large percentage of the cruising population?

 

Don't blame others for your own decisions. Nobody but you can cancel your booking. You need to own your decision and not blame others because you are upset.

 

Obviously this was a business decision HAL made and has nothing to do with your decision to only smoke on your balcony.

 

I agree with you. I see many people at the Sea View Pool area with scooters, wheel chairs or scooters. Those people don't feel tethered. And if I was booked in an aft suite it would be a ten second elevator ride to the Sea View Pool area.

[Aquahound]

To my knowledge, no cruise line has tried what I suggested.

 

What you suggested has been suggested by countless individuals countless times on these boards over the years, and numerous times throughout this long thread. It always sounds like a great idea to the individual...on the surface, without considering all the complications it would create.

 

I was going to take the time to type all the reasons it can't work, but it's been discussed numerous time in this thread. When you have time to spare, read this thread from post 1.

[navybankerteacher]

we will think about other than HAL for cruises.

 

I am sure that HAL's business people weighed the loss of some future sales because committed smokers would refuse to accept the limitation (NOT REMOVAL) of their right to smoke, against the likely gain of future sales because people who want smoke-free balconies will now consider HAL.

 

Of course there is a difficult-to-quantify potential additional benefit to HAL arising from their implementation of the new policy: some long term and dedicated HAL customers might finally give up smoking because of the change, and - living longer - would sail HAL more than they might have had they not been so encouraged to stop smoking.

[lahlah57]

Again, I'm not suggesting bringing back inside the room smoking, only allowed on balcony, obviously inside cabins would not have this option.

 

No NOT on balcony because being next store or above or below I must endure it against my will. Your reasoning is far too simplistic:rolleyes:

[scm1848]

I'm probably not the only smoker who will not only no longer cruise, but will also be selling my 300 shares of Carnival stock. I bought the first 100 merely for the OBC, which has been worth several thousands of dollars over the years. Those shares will pay for a nice vacation where I can smoke on my balcony!!

[Charles4515]

I'm probably not the only smoker who will not only no longer cruise, but will also be selling my 300 shares of Carnival stock. I bought the first 100 merely for the OBC, which has been worth several thousands of dollars over the years. Those shares will pay for a nice vacation where I can smoke on my balcony!!

 

 

 

So silly. The last few years I have been cruising on Celebrity which has no indoor smoking, not even the casino and smokers are still booking cruises on Celebrity. Most smokers who have been booking HAL will continue to book HAL. They will lose a minuscule amount of business. Losing you won't even be noticed. Nor will you selling your minuscule amount of shares.

 

 

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[taxmantoo]

I'm probably not the only smoker who will not only no longer cruise, but will also be selling my 300 shares of Carnival stock. I bought the first 100 merely for the OBC, which has been worth several thousands of dollars over the years. Those shares will pay for a nice vacation where I can smoke on my balcony!!

 

Just to put your selling of 300 shares in perspective ... Carnival Corporation has on average 777.2 million shares outstanding at any time. I am sure your 300 shares did not affect their decision :D

[kevingastreich]

we will think about other than HAL for cruises.

 

I suppose their would be a market for a "smokers only" cruise line. Even the crew could smoke too and no one would complain.

[Sailor_Sally]

I'm probably not the only smoker who will not only no longer cruise, but will also be selling my 300 shares of Carnival stock. I bought the first 100 merely for the OBC, which has been worth several thousands of dollars over the years. Those shares will pay for a nice vacation where I can smoke on my balcony!!

 

 

Good time to sell . The stock is up probably due to the smoking decision.

[wendychloecruiser]

Thank you HAL. Now at least I may consider sailing with you again. I tried it once...horrible.

[Rustybuttons123]

I'm probably not the only smoker who will not only no longer cruise, but will also be selling my 300 shares of Carnival stock. I bought the first 100 merely for the OBC, which has been worth several thousands of dollars over the years. Those shares will pay for a nice vacation where I can smoke on my balcony!!

 

Check out vacation rentals, I've rented worldwide for 35 years. Actually I do that more often than taking a cruise, and when I do really prefer just ocean crossings as cruising is a poor way to experience places, stops are too brief and generally high tourist areas, you don't get off the beaten trail to really absorb a country. At any rate, a good resource is Homeaway. Lots in the Caribbean, many with private pools that won't break the bank and some you have staff to cook meals, clean, spa treatments, etc. Its basically your own private resort. I've rented in Europe, lots in Italy, Portugal, Spain, France, Lithuania, Switzerland, Croatia, Slovenia. Some in SE Asia as well, they're all over....just pick the ones with balconies for city apartments or villas will have patios, decks, terraces. If you'd like any suggestions let me know, been to about 100 countries and usually rent vs hotels but do hotels too.

[Rustybuttons123]

The problem with that is that non-smokers would not want to book around the smoking cabins. You would have increased booking complexity for the cruise line. Literally creating a new class of cabin that would not be bookable to the majority of their cruises. If it is small enough to make sure that it would be booked by smokers, it would need to be a pretty small number. Then the line would have to deal with complaints if it is sold out and more smokers want to book.

 

Bottom line, not worth the increased hassle and complexity.

 

Not every non-smoker whines about smoking, I don't and I'm a former smoker which many say can be the worst. Of all the people I know, I'd say about 20% whine about it, the rest don't really care if its outside....no one I know lets you smoke in their house anymore! lol

Edited October 4, 2016 by Rustybuttons123

[Rustybuttons123]

 

I am sure that HAL's business people weighed the loss of some future sales because committed smokers would refuse to accept the limitation (NOT REMOVAL) of their right to smoke, against the likely gain of future sales because people who want smoke-free balconies will now consider HAL.

 

Of course there is a difficult-to-quantify potential additional benefit to HAL arising from their implementation of the new policy: some long term and dedicated HAL customers might finally give up smoking because of the change, and - living longer - would sail HAL more than they might have had they not been so encouraged to stop smoking.

 

HAL could also put calories on meals and have a shaming team that shows up at your table is you go over a certain amount. They could limit the buffets, put scales around the ship for mandatory weigh ins and make people go the gym. I mean seriously....obesity is just as bad for your health and lack of exercise.