This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Lady Arwen]

Like Joanie, we will be doing our last HAL cruise with our upcoming 21 day Caribbean cruise in November. We just returned from a 24 day Med cruise 2 weeks ago. Both of these were or will be in Neptune Suites. On our last cruise, we reached 4 star Mariner status and were presented our bronze medallions for 100 actual sea days. We only started really enjoying cruising about 6 years ago, then started doing one or 2 per year.

 

I will not cruise where I have to get dressed in decent street clothes and walk/ride to a smoking area to have my first cigarette with my coffee. I will not spend all day sitting in the crowded, often noisy, smoking section of the Seaview Bar area in order to read or play cards with my husband. I will not have my final cocktail of the night with a cigarette in my pj's in a public area!!

 

I will so miss the wonderful staff of HAL and the wonderful memories we have made aboard the ships.

 

All of you non-smokers had your choices with all of the other cruise lines. I hope all of you non-smokers will pick up the average $30,000 per year we were spending on our cruises. Bon voyage!!

 

Sorry to hear that you've decided not to cruise in the future. However, I'm sure you knew that this would happen eventually. The world is moving away from catering to smokers and most people are very happy with this. If you can't get dressed to leave your cabin to have a smoke , well, that's really your choice. You can smoke on HAL in various areas including the casino, just not your cabin or balcony. Sorry, it's inconvenient for you.

Please don't blame the nonsmokers for taking away your right to smoke!

[Aquahound]

It's fine for everyone to vent their feelings but I remember reading and hearing the same doom and gloom 20-30 years ago when US restaurants, bars, hotels, workplaces banned smoking. Smokers sad these entities would all go out of business, smokers were going to boycot.

10 to 15 years ago apartment complexes started barring smokers. We are long time owners of an income property business and dealt with bringing in haz mat people to rehab a unit after smokers left.

In the last ten years many employers refuse to hire smokers. Many employers do not allow smoking anywhere on their campus, not even in parked cars.

Condo HOA's are now dealing with calls to ban smoking as much of the property is shared space.

Restrictions will continue to toughen up. 15 per cent of Americans smoked as of 2015.

Smoking kills. Second hand smoke kills.

 

Same thing happened with Celebrity and Princess when they got out ahead of the game and made strict smoking policies. Folks swore they would either go out of business or have to repeal their policy. Same with every other line that followed. People swore to never cruise on them again...although most haven't kept that promise. And mysteriously, only smokers booked the most expensive suites and they claimed the cruise lines would lose money by them not being on board. It's always the same old story. HAL will be just fine and better yet, the rest of us will be even better when sitting on our balconies.

[cruisemom42]

The unfortunate gloating by non-smokers reminds me of the previous gloating by smokers.

 

No wonder partisans stopped compromising. It seems anger and hate, sarcasm and retribution are far more satisfying, to far too many. I'm old enough to remember when folks were more interested in harmony, considering principled adversaries as friends, and even love. Sad.

 

+1

 

Not much more to be said.

[NorthernLite]

I am guessing with a huge amount of complaining about the smoking policy and HAL's Sales are NOT what they want or what the other cruise lines are doing HAL had to take a hard look at profits and was it better to make 80% of the people happy compared to 20% and the 80+% won.

 

I think some of this was also insurance premiums. Most of the lines that still allowed balcony smoking stopped after the Princess fire. I'm OK with a dedicated smoking lounge as long as it is enclosed. With a smoke eater like bars used to have it should work for those who can manage on just a few a day. Yes, I quit about 25 years ago. Now that money goes for cruises. ☺

Edited October 4, 2016 by NorthernLite

[navybankerteacher]

First of all, we will increase the time we spend in Europe and Latin America, where the answer to whether I can smoke on a balcony or terrace has always been, "But of course, it's outside!!"

 

Secondly, while some condo rentals do allow smoking inside, most of them graciously allow smoking on the terrace or balcony.

 

We have SO many more problems in this world than people smoking outside.

 

Actually, there are more restrictions on outdoor smoking in Europe than here in the US.

[albingirl]

Well, got the word from my HAL PCC this morning that the word came down the pipes Friday regarding no more balcony smoking.

 

Since I am basically tethered to my stateroom and verandah/balcony, our cruise this November will be my last on HAL.

 

It is so easy for those of you who are mobile to say we smokers can go to the Sea View Bar, Oak Room or ... Easy, that is, if you can do it easily. Some of us cannot.

 

So, while I will be cancelling all of my future cruising, I hope hubby can still enjoy, and even can now cruise to places that I could not/would not.

 

Have fun enjoying your cruises smoke free and the knowledge that you have deprived a large enough percentage of the cruising population of their vacation(s).

 

IRL_Joanie

Joanie, I don't think anyone gets any enjoyment depriving you or your vacation. You can still cruise with Holland America, but not with your balcony smoking. Maybe some of those smoking cessation aids could assist you? It's been bound to happen, and long overdue, but I doubt there is much gloating going on. My cruising will be much improved and I will move back to the cruiseline that I have dearly loved.

[navybankerteacher]

Same thing happened with Celebrity and Princess when they got out ahead of the game and made strict smoking policies. Folks swore they would either go out of business or have to repeal their policy. Same with every other line that followed. People swore to never cruise on them again...although most haven't kept that promise. And mysteriously, only smokers booked the most expensive suites and they claimed the cruise lines would lose money by them not being on board. It's always the same old story. HAL will be just fine and better yet, the rest of us will be even better when sitting on our balconies.

 

Looking at things objectively, it must be recognized that smokers are losing something they used to enjoy - but non-smokers (who represent a much larger group) are gaining the use of something they will enjoy. The greatest good for the greatest number has long been the acid test for social policy.

[Aquahound]

Looking at things objectively, it must be recognized that smokers are losing something they used to enjoy...

 

Agreed....but only to a degree. Smokers aren't losing the enjoyment of their balcony...only the permission to engage in smoking on it. But what you say certainly is correct. Majority does rule....at least, in this case. :)

[Rustybuttons123]

Never understood why they don't try making some cabins allowed to smoke on balconies, not many, and group them together. You'll still have nearby cabins affected but there are non-smokers like myself who don't really care if someone is smoking on their balcony....and for those that really mind well then they'll know where the smoking balconies are and book theirs furthest away.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Never understood why they don't try making some cabins allowed to smoke on balconies, not many, and group them together. You'll still have nearby cabins affected but there are non-smokers like myself who don't really care if someone is smoking on their balcony....and for those that really mind well then they'll know where the smoking balconies are and book theirs furthest away.

 

Logistically CANNOT be done. Smoke Travels through ventilation, travels up, travels down. The what happens the next sailing when someone does not want a smokers cabin? You have more the 80% of the population that are not smokers. Yes there are machines the hotels and cruise lines use to get the smoke out but it is costly and takes time. It just is not cost effective to even attempt to do this.

[Rustybuttons123]

Logistically CANNOT be done. Smoke Travels through ventilation, travels up, travels down. The what happens the next sailing when someone does not want a smokers cabin? You have more the 80% of the population that are not smokers. Yes there are machines the hotels and cruise lines use to get the smoke out but it is costly and takes time. It just is not cost effective to even attempt to do this.

 

Of course it can Lisa. Would be best to allocate a little less than projected smokers, maybe only 5 or 10% cabins, this would ensure only smokers are using them and there will be some smokers who will miss out if they don't book early enough or just use the designated areas. There's no ventilation on balconies, it's natural ventilation, same as the designated outdoor areas. That's just absurd. As for travelling up or down, it does from designated areas too, and people go a little overboard on insisting they can't tolerate even the slightest hint, silly too...of course meanwhile have no problem with a lung full of diesel exhaust, fumes from heavy duty cleaners, etc.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Of course it can Lisa. Would be best to allocate a little less than projected smokers, maybe only 5 or 10% cabins, this would ensure only smokers are using them and there will be some smokers who will miss out if they don't book early enough or just use the designated areas. There's no ventilation on balconies, it's natural ventilation, same as the designated outdoor areas. That's just absurd. As for travelling up or down, it does from designated areas too, and people go a little overboard on insisting they can't tolerate even the slightest hint, silly too...of course meanwhile have no problem with a lung full of diesel exhaust, fumes from heavy duty cleaners, etc.

 

If it would work why did this practice STOP 10+ years ago, several cruise lines attempted this with side one small section. The cruise lines are all about making money first and 2nd all thought cruise lines will say this is first ;) Fire Hazard and Safety. Fire really is the number one biggest threat to any ship. Allowing smoking in a cabin you may say is fine because you would never fall asleep smoking in your cabin but how about the person next door that had a few drinks and came back to their cabin to smoke. Thought they placed their cig in the ash tray but if fell on the bed side stand. This whole idea was long ago given up by all the cruise lines.

[Fouremco]

All of you non-smokers had your choices with all of the other cruise lines. I hope all of you non-smokers will pick up the average $30,000 per year we were spending on our cruises. Bon voyage!!

Yes, life is all about choices. The vast majority of the world's population has chosen not to smoke, or to give it up in the case of those who had already started smoking. I'm one of those who smoked a pack and a half a day for over 25 years before choosing to quit.

 

The turning point in the recognition of health harms from smoking was the publication of the Surgeon General's report in 1964, and unequivocal evidence linking smoking and second-hand smoke to cancer has resulted in major societal change. The only thing surprising about HAL's decision is that it took so long to achieve.

 

I've met lots of passengers occupying non-balcony cabins who smoke. They have simply chosen to adapt, to delay their first cigarette for a few minutes in the morning and to enjoy their last cigarette of the night before heading to their cabin. If you have really enjoyed cruising with HAL as much as you say, you might want to reconsider your rejection of this choice.

[sppunk]

Of course it can Lisa. Would be best to allocate a little less than projected smokers, maybe only 5 or 10% cabins, this would ensure only smokers are using them and there will be some smokers who will miss out if they don't book early enough or just use the designated areas. There's no ventilation on balconies, it's natural ventilation, same as the designated outdoor areas. That's just absurd. As for travelling up or down, it does from designated areas too, and people go a little overboard on insisting they can't tolerate even the slightest hint, silly too...of course meanwhile have no problem with a lung full of diesel exhaust, fumes from heavy duty cleaners, etc.

Hotels are now eliminating smoking rooms, that ship has sailed.

[Rustybuttons123]

If it would work why did this practice STOP 10+ years ago, several cruise lines attempted this with side one small section. The cruise lines are all about making money first and 2nd all thought cruise lines will say this is first ;) Fire Hazard and Safety. Fire really is the number one biggest threat to any ship. Allowing smoking in a cabin you may say is fine because you would never fall asleep smoking in your cabin but how about the person next door that had a few drinks and came back to their cabin to smoke. Thought they placed their cig in the ash tray but if fell on the bed side stand. This whole idea was long ago given up by all the cruise lines.

 

Which cruise lines tried a small section of balcony only smoking? Not talking about in cabin smoking, it stinks and most smokers tell me they prefer not to smoke inside if they have a balcony.

[Rustybuttons123]

Hotels are now eliminating smoking rooms, that ship has sailed.

 

Again, I'm not suggesting bringing back inside the room smoking, only allowed on balcony, obviously inside cabins would not have this option.

[Lady Arwen]

If it would work why did this practice STOP 10+ years ago, several cruise lines attempted this with side one small section. The cruise lines are all about making money first and 2nd all thought cruise lines will say this is first ;) Fire Hazard and Safety. Fire really is the number one biggest threat to any ship. Allowing smoking in a cabin you may say is fine because you would never fall asleep smoking in your cabin but how about the person next door that had a few drinks and came back to their cabin to smoke. Thought they placed their cig in the ash tray but if fell on the bed side stand. This whole idea was long ago given up by all the cruise lines.

 

Thank you for making this very clear to everyone. Smokers have to accept that cruiselines will be implementing more non smoking areas in the future, and not giving them more valuable real estate on the ship.

[Charles4515]

Thank you for making this very clear to everyone. Smokers have to accept that cruiselines will be implementing more non smoking areas in the future, and not giving them more valuable real estate on the ship.

 

 

 

Yep. The casino is next. It will become non smoking.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kevingastreich]

Well, got the word from my HAL PCC this morning that the word came down the pipes Friday regarding no more balcony smoking.

 

Since I am basically tethered to my stateroom and verandah/balcony, our cruise this November will be my last on HAL.

 

It is so easy for those of you who are mobile to say we smokers can go to the Sea View Bar, Oak Room or ... Easy, that is, if you can do it easily. Some of us cannot.

 

So, while I will be cancelling all of my future cruising, I hope hubby can still enjoy, and even can now cruise to places that I could not/would not.

 

Have fun enjoying your cruises smoke free and the knowledge that you have deprived a large enough percentage of the cruising population of their vacation(s).

 

IRL_Joanie

 

Man, your post actually made me sad. You are going to cancel all your cruises because you cant smoke on your veranda? Your husband is going to go without you because you can't smoke on your veranda? Do you ever go to the Lido (Seaview Bar) or do you get all your meals room-service because you have to stay on your veranda to smoke? Deep down, does it bother you that you are "tethered to your veranda"? I know cigs are hard to quit (I've done it at least ten times myself) but you have made yourself a prisoner to your addiction. It made me sad to read your story. :(

[Rustybuttons123]

Yes, life is all about choices. The vast majority of the world's population has chosen not to smoke, or to give it up in the case of those who had already started smoking. I'm one of those who smoked a pack and a half a day for over 25 years before choosing to quit.

 

The turning point in the recognition of health harms from smoking was the publication of the Surgeon General's report in 1964, and unequivocal evidence linking smoking and second-hand smoke to cancer has resulted in major societal change. The only thing surprising about HAL's decision is that it took so long to achieve.

 

I've met lots of passengers occupying non-balcony cabins who smoke. They have simply chosen to adapt, to delay their first cigarette for a few minutes in the morning and to enjoy their last cigarette of the night before heading to their cabin. If you have really enjoyed cruising with HAL as much as you say, you might want to reconsider your rejection of this choice.

 

A recent large scale study found no statistically significant relationship between cancer and second hand smoke. The study involved people who lived with a smoker for 30+ years. It's been touted by the anti-smoking crowd as cancer causing to justify their mission to remove it from society, and this involved bogus "studies", even signed off on by Surgeon General, etc. You'd have to show a measurable increase in lung cancer in non-smokers who lived with smokers, but there isn't an increase. Even if you have a few cases you still can't attribute it absolutely being from second hand smoke exposure when other things cause lung cancer like exposure to asbestos or radon to name a few. Bottom line is people want to get rid of it and needed something to justify that. They're the same people who claim pot causes cancer too.

[fatcat04]

If it would work why did this practice STOP 10+ years ago, several cruise lines attempted this with side one small section. The cruise lines are all about making money first and 2nd all thought cruise lines will say this is first ;) Fire Hazard and Safety. Fire really is the number one biggest threat to any ship. Allowing smoking in a cabin you may say is fine because you would never fall asleep smoking in your cabin but how about the person next door that had a few drinks and came back to their cabin to smoke. Thought they placed their cig in the ash tray but if fell on the bed side stand. This whole idea was long ago given up by all the cruise lines.

 

While yes, smoking in cabins is very costly, impractical, and even dangerous, I don't recall ANYONE even mentioning it as a possibility so why bring it up? I think the previous poster was speaking of balcony smoking on select very limited balconies on select decks and areas of the ship away from those who object. As he enumerated several times, not smoking in cabins.

Edited October 4, 2016 by fatcat04

[jadona48]

+1

 

Not much more to be said.

 

+2

 

Very sad.

[Got2Cruise]

A recent large scale study found no statistically significant relationship between cancer and second hand smoke. The study involved people who lived with a smoker for 30+ years. It's been touted by the anti-smoking crowd as cancer causing to justify their mission to remove it from society, and this involved bogus "studies", even signed off on by Surgeon General, etc. You'd have to show a measurable increase in lung cancer in non-smokers who lived with smokers, but there isn't an increase. Even if you have a few cases you still can't attribute it absolutely being from second hand smoke exposure when other things cause lung cancer like exposure to asbestos or radon to name a few. Bottom line is people want to get rid of it and needed something to justify that. They're the same people who claim pot causes cancer too.

 

 

 

How about I want to breathe fresh air, not cigarette smoke or pot smoke?

[Fouremco]

A recent large scale study found no statistically significant relationship between cancer and second hand smoke. The study involved people who lived with a smoker for 30+ years. It's been touted by the anti-smoking crowd as cancer causing to justify their mission to remove it from society, and this involved bogus "studies", even signed off on by Surgeon General, etc. You'd have to show a measurable increase in lung cancer in non-smokers who lived with smokers, but there isn't an increase. Even if you have a few cases you still can't attribute it absolutely being from second hand smoke exposure when other things cause lung cancer like exposure to asbestos or radon to name a few. Bottom line is people want to get rid of it and needed something to justify that. They're the same people who claim pot causes cancer too.

I can probably find a study that "proves" that the earth is really flat, and the anti-vax crusaders would be happy to show you "proof" that vaccinations are totally unnecessary. Again, it's all about choices, and I choose to believe the overwhelming evidence of studies conducted over the past half-century in countries around the world linking smoking and cancer.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Fouremco

[Rustybuttons123]

How about I want to breathe fresh air, not cigarette smoke or pot smoke?

 

Well it does stink and should be kept out of indoor enclosed areas, I agree and most smokers probably agree too. But in society where you have other people nearby you're exposed to all sorts of unpleasant odors, BO, farts, bad breath, cheap cologne, we hold our breath and move on. If you want fresh air free of every people odor, not to mention exhaust, cleaners, paint fumes and other smells from populated areas, then go to a remote mountain cabin...and you can run around naked too, you know just in case the smell of the laundry soap that permeated your clothes bugs you.