Life Jackets in cabin

[yankees111]

As others have said, absolutely no reason to ask for a life jacket in your room . Report to your muster station in an event of an emergency and you will be issued a life jacket there if needed.

[Cabansail]

I think you have a better chance of winning the lottery than those cruise ships sinking

 

 

I think White Star Lines launched an Unsinkable Ship.

 

Wonder how well that went? :eek:

[OSUZorba]

Something I never see mentioned in these threads, is that you shouldn't ever don a life jacket indoors. If the compartment you are in floods and you have a life jacket on, you will not be able to swim down to a doorway to get out. This is why in the safety speech on aircraft they always tell you to never inflate the vest until you are outside of the aircraft.

 

I am pretty sure at least two people on Concordia were found dead at their muster stations (indoors) with their life jackets on.

 

Of course, I am an aerospace guy, so the people knowledgeable in ships may disagree.

[OSUZorba]

I think White Star Lines launched an Unsinkable Ship.

 

Wonder how well that went? :eek:

 

It "won" the lottery :p

[Heather1972]

No life jacket in the room means more room for my stuff!

[steamboats]

Oasis and Quantum (?) class ships are the ONLY ships that, I have recently found out, do not have life jackets in the staterooms.

 

It is no a common practice for all larger ships. No life vests on the Norwegian Escape either.

 

Why on larger ships? As I said before it´s much faster to gather the people at their muster station when they walk without their life vest. There are regulations saying how much time can be spend to gather the people at their muster station or to fill up a life boat. Having no life vest in the cabin saves a lot of time during the whole process.

 

A lot of passengers don't actually go to a lifeboat station.

 

No one is supposed to go to a lifeboat station anymore. All newer ships do have the muster stations inside. One reason is that in most cases of a general alarm situation you never have to abandon the ship but wait - sometimes for hours - until the situation is cleared (like an engine room fire). As the Costa Concordia did show clearly an assigned life boat doesn´t make sense at all. Some life boats may not be usable anymore due to the heavy list of the ship. Yes, there are still assigned life boats but in an abandon ship situation it´s up to the decision of the crew which life boat a certain muster station is going as the regular assigned one might not be available anymore.

 

All closets are marked with the white and green life vest symbol.

 

steamboats

[123funcruiser]

Something I never see mentioned in these threads, is that you shouldn't ever don a life jacket indoors. If the compartment you are in floods and you have a life jacket on, you will not be able to swim down to a doorway to get out. This is why in the safety speech on aircraft they always tell you to never inflate the vest until you are outside of the aircraft.

 

I am pretty sure at least two people on Concordia were found dead at their muster stations (indoors) with their life jackets on.

 

Of course, I am an aerospace guy, so the people knowledgeable in ships may disagree.

 

You are absolutely right, life vests can kill you. There is absolutely no reason to have a life vest in your cabin. You don´t need it inside the ship. The earliest Point to Need it is at the time you have to abandon ship.

 

I´m not sure how much it has to do with the size of ship, but I think they might adopt this to older and smaller ships, if they could find enough storage space for the life vests around the ship, where they are needed.

 

We will see newbuilds adopting this more and more regardless of size.

Edited November 8, 2015 by 123funcruiser

[novicetraveller]

I don't see where anyone bashed you. Maybe not understand why you want one in your room but no nasty comments.

 

 

 

Just because someone questions you or doesn't agree doesn't equal bashing.

 

 

If the OP feels we are bashing them, then so be it. I understand why the OP wants one.

[Turtles06]

We've just returned from the Anthem TA. This was the first time we've been on a ship where there were no life vests in the cabin, and I did find it a little unnerving, even though I know not to go back to your cabin if you are elsewhere when the alarms go off, and I also know not to put a vest on inside. I think, though, like the OP, there is some comfort factor in knowing that there is a vest in your cabin that you can grab if you are there and some chaotic thing happens.

 

I appreciate the thoughtful responses on this thread. Much of what is said is premised on an orderly muster if the alarms go off. But how likely, on a ship as large as Anthem or Oasis, is it that there will be calmness and order in a genuine emergency? Or that 4,000 passengers really will be able to get to their muster stations quickly? Plus, I have in my head the images of the Concordia passengers finally needing to jump into the water, and I guess I want to be sure I will have a vest in any such situation.

 

I think I am still reacting to my very recent experience on Anthem and still processing this new way of doing things. I do appreciate the info that has been provided on this thread.

[123funcruiser]

We've just returned from the Anthem TA. This was the first time we've been on a ship where there were no life vests in the cabin, and I did find it a little unnerving, even though I know not to go back to your cabin if you are elsewhere when the alarms go off, and I also know not to put a vest on inside. I think, though, like the OP, there is some comfort factor in knowing that there is a vest in your cabin that you can grab if you are there and some chaotic thing happens.

 

I appreciate the thoughtful responses on this thread. Much of what is said is premised on an orderly muster if the alarms go off. But how likely, on a ship as large as Anthem or Oasis, is it that there will be calmness and order in a genuine emergency? Or that 4,000 passengers really will be able to get to their muster stations quickly? Plus, I have in my head the images of the Concordia passengers finally needing to jump into the water, and I guess I want to be sure I will have a vest in any such situation.

 

I think I am still reacting to my very recent experience on Anthem and still processing this new way of doing things. I do appreciate the info that has been provided on this thread.

 

You are giving some perfect reasons why I prefer the new way of distributing life vests instead of having them in the cabin.

 

I agree with you once the Alarm goes off chances are great that muster will not be calmly and orderly. I don´t quite agree that 4000 passengers can´t get to the muster stations quickly.

 

I do believe that getting People to their muster stations, especially when panicking, will be much easier and quicker when narrow hallways and staircases are not cluttered up with bulky life vests and People tripping not only over each other but also over life vest straps. That all in Addition to not being as mobile with that bulky life vest on. I´ve been to numerous muster drills in the past when life vests were still required to be worn and I´m still Young and mobile, but even I had to be careful when Walking down the stairs, as it was much harder to see the steps with the life vest on. I´ve sometimes refused to wear the life vest for the trip down the stairs and just put it on downstairs.

 

As for having the vests at Hand in a Concordia like Event I have to say I like the new System much better than the old one. With the life vests in your cabin the about only other place to get one is most of the time the deck where they Launch the life boats. On the ships like Oasis and Quantum class there is storage rooms full with life vests all over the ship in Addition to the Promenade decks where the life boats are launched from. So once I get to a place where I Need to Abandon ship, or as you say jump overboard I´m much more likely to grab a life vest because of the sheer abundance of them in comparison to the other ships where they are only at the life boat stations.

 

While I can see where you are coming from, I think this is a case where the new way of doing Things is a real enhancement.

[chengkp75]

Some facts about the Concordia, since this seems to be generally on people's minds when they think of muster drill.

 

Despite the fact that the Concordia ended up on her side, she did not start to list more than 15* until after she had grounded for the second time, in her final resting spot. That grounding is what caused the list, not the flooding.

 

23 of 26 lifeboats were successfully launched.

 

Despite Schettino's stupidity in running the ship close to shore at speed, and the fact that once 4 compartments were flooded there was no force on God's earth that would keep the Concordia afloat, there could have been no fatalities in this disaster but for one fact: The muster "fire and general emergency" signal was not sounded as soon as the bridge was notified of flooding (6 minutes after touching the rock). Had the passengers been mustered at their stations, and the crew all at theirs, during the subsequent 45 minutes or so until the ship touched ground on Giglio, everyone would have been accounted for, and "herded" into known locations. Then, when the decision to abandon was made (far too late), the boats would have been quickly loaded and launched, and for those whose boats were not capable of being launched (and I don't believe there would have been any), the life rafts are right there, and the crew could either take passengers to the other side to board a raft, or use the ones right there. There are extra rafts to give a total capacity (boats and rafts, of 125%).

 

On the older ships, where the space on the promenade deck is designed to handle a passenger muster at the boats, this is an efficient, but uncomfortable method of gathering passengers and loading boats if needed. The newer ships that use inside musters have the spaces designed for that, and recognize that in many cases, passengers will be mustered, perhaps for hours, without any thought of abandoning ship (whether due to weather conditions or the state of the emergency). Again, muster is not about getting into boats, it is about making a head count.

[Ocean Boy]

Something I never see mentioned in these threads, is that you shouldn't ever don a life jacket indoors. If the compartment you are in floods and you have a life jacket on, you will not be able to swim down to a doorway to get out. This is why in the safety speech on aircraft they always tell you to never inflate the vest until you are outside of the aircraft.

 

I am pretty sure at least two people on Concordia were found dead at their muster stations (indoors) with their life jackets on.

 

Of course, I am an aerospace guy, so the people knowledgeable in ships may disagree.

 

OK, so why is it that for years, when we mustered the "old" way, everyone showed up at the stations wearing their life vests. Nowhere, ever, was there a notice in the cabin stating not to put on the vest until you reached outside on the muster deck.

[chengkp75]

OK, so why is it that for years, when we mustered the "old" way, everyone showed up at the stations wearing their life vests. Nowhere, ever, was there a notice in the cabin stating not to put on the vest until you reached outside on the muster deck.

 

Doorways on ships are larger than many emergency exits on planes. If a compartment floods so quickly that a lifejacket's flotation would prevent you from getting out a door, you have a lot more problems than having a lifejacket on. Besides, the airplane lifejackets rely on an inflated chamber, which can get punctured while exiting, which is why I was always taught not to inflate "Mae Wests" when traveling in helicopters for over a decade in the oil field. The foam lifejackets on ships will float even if ripped. Besides, you are directed to take the seat cushion with you, which floats, so why can you exit with that, but not a lifejacket?

Edited November 8, 2015 by chengkp75

[OSUZorba]

OK, so why is it that for years, when we mustered the "old" way, everyone showed up at the stations wearing their life vests. Nowhere, ever, was there a notice in the cabin stating not to put on the vest until you reached outside on the muster deck.

 

I am guessing the cruise industry decided it was safer to have people wear their vest to the muster stations then take up the room holding them, and dragging the straps on the ground for other people to trip on. There is probably also an assumption that they would muster before any of the lower pax areas flooded and they would abandon ship before any of the muster stations flooded.

 

Doorways on ships are larger than many emergency exits on planes. If a compartment floods so quickly that a lifejacket's flotation would prevent you from getting out a door, you have a lot more problems than having a lifejacket on. Besides, the airplane lifejackets rely on an inflated chamber, which can get punctured while exiting, which is why I was always taught not to inflate "Mae Wests" when traveling in helicopters for over a decade in the oil field. The foam lifejackets on ships will float even if ripped. Besides, you are directed to take the seat cushion with you, which floats, so why can you exit with that, but not a lifejacket?

 

There are multiple reasons to not inflate your vest on an aircraft until you are outside. One as you say is because of punctures. Another is because doors, especially emergency doors, are small. But the biggest is if the plane floods and you have your vest inflated you will float to the top of the cabin (which ever way is the top at that point) and be unable to free yourself from the vehicle. As with most things in aviation, this guideline is written in blood:

 

Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 was the flight that resulted in this addition to the safety briefing.

 

After being hijacked, the plane eventually crash-landed in the ocean. Many passengers died because they inflated their life jackets in the cabin, causing them to be trapped inside by the rising water.

 

 

The difference in a vest and seat cushion is you can let go of the seat cushion.

 

 

FYI: When I was an airline engineer I worked, in part, emergency equipment, and my good friend from college worked over water equipment specifically.

[Cabansail]

[jonbgd]

 

If you don't like a thread MOVE ON

 

The OP has a right to her opinion:D

[Big_G]

 

Aren't you the same poster that has never taken a cruise before? :confused:

[Cabansail]

If you don't like a thread MOVE ON

 

The OP has a right to her opinion:D

 

Yes they do. The point is that having the Life Jacket in the cabin is like a security blanket. Nothing wrong with that, but I thought the pic just summed it up.

 

Aren't you the same poster that has never taken a cruise before? :confused:

 

Never an organised cruise, taken my own and other vessels out though. Yes, my life jackets are actually stored in my cabin. :D

Edited November 9, 2015 by Cabansail

[chengkp75]

I am guessing the cruise industry decided it was safer to have people wear their vest to the muster stations then take up the room holding them, and dragging the straps on the ground for other people to trip on. There is probably also an assumption that they would muster before any of the lower pax areas flooded and they would abandon ship before any of the muster stations flooded.

 

There are more reasons, and more instances, of abandoning ship without any flooding or sinking. Fire comes to mind first. However, just placing an aircraft in conjunction with water results in sinking.

 

 

 

There are multiple reasons to not inflate your vest on an aircraft until you are outside. One as you say is because of punctures. Another is because doors, especially emergency doors, are small. But the biggest is if the plane floods and you have your vest inflated you will float to the top of the cabin (which ever way is the top at that point) and be unable to free yourself from the vehicle. As with most things in aviation, this guideline is written in blood:

 

 

 

This is why we used dry suits (no flotation), and an inflatable vest, when flying to/from the oil rigs rather than the survival suits that are used on ships (35 lbs of flotation) that we were to use when getting into lifeboats.

The difference in a vest and seat cushion is you can let go of the seat cushion. You can also take the lifejacket off, but the chance of someone doing that in an emergency is probably just as slim as thinking of letting go of a seat cushion.

 

 

FYI: When I was an airline engineer I worked, in part, emergency equipment, and my good friend from college worked over water equipment specifically.

 

I understand that you know more about aviation safety than I do, but I've worked on ships, drilling with and repairing maritime safety equipment for 40 years.

[steveru621]

As others have said, absolutely no reason to ask for a life jacket in your room . Report to your muster station in an event of an emergency and you will be issued a life jacket there if needed.

 

I'm glad that that there are so many experts on the thread. NO REASON. HAha.

[yankees111]

I'm glad that that there are so many experts on the thread. NO REASON. HAha.

 

 

That's right, no reason! Life jackets are available for everyone at their muster station. Just as silly as asking your room steward for a knife and fork to take to dinner in the main dining room!

[steveru621]

That's right, no reason! Life jackets are available for everyone at their muster station. Just as silly as asking your room steward for a knife and fork to take to dinner in the main dining room!

 

Of course that is just your opinion. On almost all ships in RCI life jackets are in your cabin. You are silly for questioning RCI.

[jonbgd]

That's right, no reason! Life jackets are available for everyone at their muster station. Just as silly as asking your room steward for a knife and fork to take to dinner in the main dining room!

 

I disagree

At night I want a life jacket in my cabin

 

WHY??

 

While I respect my USCG shallow water sailors and the rules the lay down in regards to indoor muster stations with PFD's in closets

 

As someone that has served on Navy ships, I don't trust the other 6000 pax on a civilian ship, not to runaround in a complete CF

[OSUZorba]

I understand that you know more about aviation safety than I do, but I've worked on ships, drilling with and repairing maritime safety equipment for 40 years.

 

I was just stating I had personal knowledge of why you don't inflate in the cabin and I wasn't speaking without knowledge. I definitely didn't mean to imply you were wrong, I tremendously respect your opinion and posts on this forum.

 

It seems you agree with me when you say that you used a dry suit + inflatable PFD, as opposed to foam flotation on the helicopters.

 

As far as seat cushions go, people would be more likely to let go of them to swim, than to remove their PFD. Although people are very irrational in a panic, so who knows what would actually happen, until it does.

 

There are more reasons, and more instances, of abandoning ship without any flooding or sinking. Fire comes to mind first. However, just placing an aircraft in conjunction with water results in sinking.

 

I completely agree, but can you foresee a situation when wearing a vest indoors, away from the muster station would increase the survivablility of a pax? Assuming they had a PFD with them, just un-donned?

 

BTW: This is the case I remembered for the Concordia:

 

The bodies of two passengers found wearing life jackets aboard the capsized Costa Concordia cruise ship today have been identified, officials said. Both passengers were elderly men -- one Italian, the other Spanish. The bodies were found earlier today near a gathering point in the submerged part of the luxury liner, bringing the death toll in the disaster to five people.

Edited November 9, 2015 by OSUZorba

[OSUZorba]

Something interesting I recently found out about US Air Flight 1549 (Hudson River Ditching). Out of the 150 passengers on board, only 19 even attempted to get their life vests and on 10 actually got them. Of those 10, only 4 fully and correctly donned them.

 

http://flightsafety.org/aerosafety-world-magazine/july-2010/survival-on-the-hudson

 

Of course this event happened after RCI made the decision to stop putting vests in the cabins, but it shows in a real emergency many (most?) people would likely abandon them in their cabins, anyways. Having the vests only at the muster stations ensures everyone gets one, without having to have at least 2 vests for every berth.