Compensation for Riviera Nurovirus Cruise

[Leejnd4]

I wasn't implying that you were hysterical. I implied that others have blown things out of proportion. You have my apologies and I am sorry to have so offended you.

 

It sounds like you might want to explore availing yourself of your trip cancellation insurance or discovering under what circumstances your coverage kicks in.

 

I believe I shall take a Cruise Critic hiatus. Happy Holidays all.

 

Apology accepted. And no need to take a Cruise Critic hiatus just because I got my panties in bunch. ;) No I didn't appreciate the inference that I was being hysterical, but hopefully you grasp now that my fears are valid.

 

I do have trip insurance, but I don't think it's going to help much if I get noro - I will go read the contract to see what it might cover if I do get sick. But even if it does cover such an illness, that is not going to matter. It's not going to bring me back my vacation. This cruise is kind of a last hurrah for me - I won't have an opportunity to take a cruise like this for a very long time, probably years, and if this one gets ruined by illness, getting some reimbursement or compensation is not make me feel any better.

 

Who? Where? I think those that were and are on board have a bit more insight that those sitting back reading about it.

 

My personal feeling is that while up to a point it was a good cruise it was no where near the regular Oceania experience. Did it ruin my cruise? No, but it was no fun having the constant feeling that anytime you had a stomach rumble or maybe a headache, which could be brought on by many other things on a cruise, is that you might be infected. Constantly being on edge certainly takes away a lot of the enjoyment of what is usually a relaxing vacation.

 

And this too is what I fear. Yes, I know I'll have fun (as long as I don't get sick)...especially on the dives! But I do not want to be constantly checking myself for symptoms, or worried that the slight malaise I'm feeling the morning after our La Reserve dinner could be more than a hangover. So yeah...this is a valid concern, and I do not consider this to be hysteria.

[RJB]

Particularly when the claim to the money is as cockamamie as this is.

 

Does the Theater give a refund if the patron becomes ill, mid performance?

Do movie theaters?

Do restaurants?

Do Hotels?

 

RJB is running a spoof up the flagpole, to see who will salute it.

 

 

So? is this what we all think This post is a joke and we all know it now. Oceania does not always do the right thing and anyone who thinks they do is living in la la land

[ronrick1943]

So? is this what we all think This post is a joke and we all know it now. Oceania does not always do the right thing and anyone who thinks they do is living in la la land

 

I agree 100% with you, It's time "O" steps up. I think you have a lot of TA's that think people over react...........

Rick

[chengkp75]

Maybe the team should have talked to some passengers that were NOT quarantined and out and about.

 

On any Noro ship I have been on the salt and peppers are taken away as well as the creamers and sugar cube holders in the GDR and replaced by the packets which are passed to the passenger with tongs. (yes, I am serious).

 

Cutlery, glasses, etc. are NOT out all night to be touched, coughed on, etc.

 

Pastries, fruits, etc. are not put out unless they are covered at the very least

 

Casinos, libraries, pools, hot tubs, computer rooms are closed to avoid the touch contagion on other ships I have been on.

 

the counters are all saran wrapped, etc. It's a long list but maybe this isn't necessary? Maybe this was a protocol that other ships followed that O chose not to. I don't know, but having done two other Noro outbreaks, I certainly understood why we might not lick it. There is no point in dripping goop everywhere when cutlery, cups, glasses, food is out well in advance and unprotected. Just my thoughts and it's ok I have my flame proof suit on.;}

 

Again, as I say, I wasn't there, just trying to present or find out some facts. Again, not familiar with the ship, was it away from the US for a season prior to this TA? It's sounding more and more like it, and the crew lost their focus on the USPH training.

 

I've been on the other side of the buffet counter from you during a few noro outbreak remediation efforts, so I know what is entailed, and from your description, it does sound as if proper procedures were not followed.

 

Even without an outbreak condition, pre-set table settings are only allowed to be out for 4 hours prior to service, not all night. And most of what you describe are standard noro remediation techniques, though I've never heard of saran wrapping a counter, and not sure what that does, since you are exchanging a non-porous surface that must be sanitized every 4 hours for a non-cleanable disposable surface, but that's just me.

[kazu]

Again, as I say, I wasn't there, just trying to present or find out some facts. Again, not familiar with the ship, was it away from the US for a season prior to this TA? It's sounding more and more like it, and the crew lost their focus on the USPH training.

 

 

 

I've been on the other side of the buffet counter from you during a few noro outbreak remediation efforts, so I know what is entailed, and from your description, it does sound as if proper procedures were not followed.

 

 

 

Even without an outbreak condition, pre-set table settings are only allowed to be out for 4 hours prior to service, not all night. And most of what you describe are standard noro remediation techniques, though I've never heard of saran wrapping a counter, and not sure what that does, since you are exchanging a non-porous surface that must be sanitized every 4 hours for a non-cleanable disposable surface, but that's just me.

 

 

sorry, I did't explain the saran wrap well. It went from the gap in the serving area (where the sneeze boards(right word?) stop and there is space to the counter so that no one could reach in and touch anything.

 

Yes the ship was in Europe prior to the TA.

Edited December 10, 2015 by kazu

[chengkp75]

sorry, I did't explain the saran wrap well. It went from the gap in the serving area (where the sneeze boards(right word?) stop and there is space to the counter so that no one could reach in and touch anything.

 

Yes the ship was in Europe prior to the TA.

 

Ah, that makes sense. We just added more crew to the serving line, to the point where I was losing plumbers and electricians to food service during meals.

 

I've seen the EU passenger ship sanitation regulations, and I'm not saying that the USPH is better, but the EU relies on each member nation to implement the regulations and there is no central clearing house for inspection dates or scores, so I think it may be a bit more "relaxed" than in the US. It certainly seems like every time a ship returns to home porting in the US after a season away, it has problems meeting USPH protocols at first. I certainly have seen this with the Silver Shadow, twice. Some lines continue to enforce USPH regimens, using weekly inspections by senior staff, even when the ship is not calling in the US, just to keep the procedures as daily reflex actions.

[kazu]

Ah, that makes sense. We just added more crew to the serving line, to the point where I was losing plumbers and electricians to food service during meals.

 

 

 

I've seen the EU passenger ship sanitation regulations, and I'm not saying that the USPH is better, but the EU relies on each member nation to implement the regulations and there is no central clearing house for inspection dates or scores, so I think it may be a bit more "relaxed" than in the US. It certainly seems like every time a ship returns to home porting in the US after a season away, it has problems meeting USPH protocols at first. I certainly have seen this with the Silver Shadow, twice. Some lines continue to enforce USPH regimens, using weekly inspections by senior staff, even when the ship is not calling in the US, just to keep the procedures as daily reflex actions.

 

 

I saw that on other ships as well (adding staff). Even officers on one cruise. On the Riviera, that was not the case.

[chengkp75]

I saw that on other ships as well (adding staff). Even officers on one cruise. On the Riviera, that was not the case.

 

Oh, yeah, did that myself a few times, trying to get my frontline guys back working in the trenches (toilet clog issues tend to rise during a noro outbreak). They would tend to put me doing things where I couldn't make too big a mess, like handing out rolls. :o

[roger b]

Particularly when the claim to the money is as cockamamie as this is.

 

Does the Theater give a refund if the patron becomes ill, mid performance?

Do movie theaters?

Do restaurants?

Do Hotels?

 

RJB is running a spoof up the flagpole, to see who will salute it.

 

 

 

 

As usual S and J are batting for OC, Firstly Theaters and Movie theaters are not serving food!!! If a restaurant is proved to have caused Salmonella Poisoning or NV they are immediately shut down in fact Heston Blumenthal's 3 star restaurant was shut for 3 months in the UK for a breach of Hygiene standards.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/10612745/Heston-Blumenthal-shuts-Dinner-restaurant-after-norovirus-outbreak.html

 

He had to renew his whole kitchen !!! and I suggest the big brass at OC read this !!

 

It has been shown from various posts that OC let their hygiene standards slip on their last two cruises.

 

I was not asking for a large compensation claim just a fair acknowledgement of the hygiene failings and loss of enjoyment for my holiday.

I was promised this and I feel that $200 OBC is and insult !!!

 

Last night the captain explained that the epidemic was now finished,and we were back to normal, he then came back on the tannoy to tell the passengers that the head office in Miami had decided to keep the sanitation levels at level 2 so that the passengers boarding would be more confident that the virus had gone.

 

Well I consider this slight on the way we have been treated bugger those on board so that on coming passengers are happy !!!

[chengkp75]

He had to renew his whole kitchen !!! and I suggest the big brass at OC read this !!

 

 

While I didn't see anything in the article linked about renewing the kitchen, and while not defending Oceania, I will say that any ship built to meet USPH standards has construction guidelines that are far stricter than nearly every local health code. USPH even requires the ships to replace things like slotted or Phillips headed screws from any equipment (including restaurant appliances) and replace them with special fasteners that are easier to clean than the small slots in screw heads where dirt can accumulate.

[rallydave]

This has bothered me overnight so just have to say to those who have blamed the passengers 100% for the Noro problems on board and have said none of this is Oceania's fault, you all are 100% incorrect.

 

While there is no way to pin the blame on the ship or passengers without a forensic investigation, there is always the possibility that this ship and crew is part of the problem. Cannot eliminate anybody on board and I guess blame could come from shoreside if food is brought on board that is infected with the virus. We're all in this together and anyone or everyone could be the cause of the virus and continuing infections.

 

Also agree that the $200 OBC is certainly too little and coming just 3 days before returning to Miami, way too late and what about the other 1100 passengers who were on the TA who are now off the ship and seemingly forgotten.

[roger b]

While I didn't see anything in the article linked about renewing the kitchen, and while not defending Oceania, I will say that any ship built to meet USPH standards has construction guidelines that are far stricter than nearly every local health code. USPH even requires the ships to replace things like slotted or Phillips headed screws from any equipment (including restaurant appliances) and replace them with special fasteners that are easier to clean than the small slots in screw heads where dirt can accumulate.

 

My Mistake the restaurant had to close for 6 MONTHS !!!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/mar/31/heston-blumenthals-fat-duck-to-close-for-six-months-in-melbourne-move

 

 

On reading through your posts which are much informed it appears to me that you are also batting for OC.

Since you weren't on board and did not see the hygiene breaches I feel that you should not comment any further .

You are stating facts regarding the virus and ship equipment !!

I personally have no interest in how often screws are replaced, I am only interested in my own health which has been blighted on my two cruises with 20 days under level 2 and above of hygiene restrictions and my continued loyalty to OC which is only worth $200 of OBC

[Travelcat2]

iMO, no one is overacting and, Oceania does not need to step up to the plate anymore than they are. Passengers are lying on their medical forms... Signing that they have not had a sore throat or any other illness in the past few days. Then they touch everything, cough and sneeze in your face constantly........

 

I am currently on Regent's Mariner and a good percentage of the new people (note, we have been on board since Nov. 24th) are obviously sick with a variety of ailments.

 

The reasons why some people lie about being sick is 1). You may not be let on the ship and will lose thousands of dollars; and, if you report to the doctor you will be quarantined (along with your partner). There must be a better way.

 

Very ill people should be able to transfer to another cruise OR, give sick people proper masks to wear in lieu of being quarantined. When they are outside of their suite, they must wear gloves and the mask and be served by crew members at your table........ No touching anything with bare hands. Other passengers are therefore aware tat you are sick and can some avoidance actions.

 

This is not a solution but is definitely better than what is currently going on. We just off of the bus with people coughing and sneezing and not covering their mouths. As soon as I got back to the ship, after disinfecting my hands, I took a vitamin C, zinc and probiotics! Hope to remain healthy.

[wristband]

Travelcat, I have been on Regent with you several times in years past. We left Regent after service declined several years ago. We have really enjoyed Oceania but last week's Riviera cruise from Barcelona was the worst we have had on O sorry to say.

 

I agree with your point about passengers who fib about their health on the self-reporting form. I saw it at embarkation and throughout the ship with loud coughing and sneezing without covering. Two women boarded quite ill in Barcelona.

 

There has to be a better method than a short form asking the customer to volunteer they have no symptoms. If they do, then what? Airports use thermal imaging when there is a SARS outbreak to test temperatures before allowing pax on planes. Medical Center nurses could quickly take temps with a digital thermometer inserted in the ear at embarkation.

 

I suggested these steps and the need for O to be proactive to protect pax, crew and O's reputation. The cutie pie officers in white immediately dismissed these suggestions telling me I should "contact Miami" and symptoms of Noro typically take 24-48 hours to manifest. Ok, fine, but at least do so anything - something - more at the outset to identify ill folks before they board and spread the virus to others.

 

That I-could-care-less attitude reflects a much wider unresponsive attitude we experienced on Riviera. A noticeable problem likely starts at the top, filters down to the front lines. It was obvious to us and it really stinks!

[LHT28]

Travelcat, I have been on Regent with you several times in years past. We left Regent after service declined several years ago. We have really enjoyed Oceania but last week's Riviera cruise from Barcelona was the worst we have had on O sorry to say.

 

I agree with your point about passengers who fib about their health on the self-reporting form. I saw it at embarkation and throughout the ship with loud coughing and sneezing without covering. Two women boarded quite ill in Barcelona.

 

I wonder if you had noro upon boarding would your temp be higher ?

When I got home in May I thought it was food poisoning but now I think it was Noro as it was on the ship when we left

Either way it was not a pleasant experience

 

If people lie not sure what any cruise line can do

there is a suggestion on the future sailing to bring imodium so you will not have to report in or buy it on the ship on the ship if you get sick :eek:

this to me is irresponsible unless they also plan to isolate themselves in the cabin as well

 

It does sound like this was a very bad sailing

I know it was on several sailings of Marina this spring

 

[lais]

I wonder if you had noro upon boarding would your temp be higher ?

When I got home in May I thought it was food poisoning but now I think it was Noro as it was on the ship when we left

Either way it was not a pleasant experience

 

If people lie not sure what any cruise line can do

there is a suggestion on the future sailing to bring imodium so you will not have to report in or buy it on the ship on the ship if you get sick :eek:

this to me is irresponsible unless they also plan to isolate themselves in the cabin as well

 

It does sound like this was a very bad sailing

I know it was on several sailings of Marina this spring

 

I made the suggestion to bring Imodium. It's not about not reporting it, it is so not to be charged $100 to get it on the ship or whatever Oceania charges these days. They do not sell it in the ship's store. I bring Imodium on land trips also because you just never know. It's part of my first aid kit along with aspirin etc. Or, is Oceania not charging Dr. fees to be checked? I have never been sick on a ship (knock on wood) but I know others that have been and it was very costly.

[chengkp75]

My Mistake the restaurant had to close for 6 MONTHS !!!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/mar/31/heston-blumenthals-fat-duck-to-close-for-six-months-in-melbourne-move

 

 

On reading through your posts which are much informed it appears to me that you are also batting for OC.

Since you weren't on board and did not see the hygiene breaches I feel that you should not comment any further .

You are stating facts regarding the virus and ship equipment !!

I personally have no interest in how often screws are replaced, I am only interested in my own health which has been blighted on my two cruises with 20 days under level 2 and above of hygiene restrictions and my continued loyalty to OC which is only worth $200 of OBC

 

Sorry, but I don't see anywhere that I am favoring Oceania in this. I am stating facts regarding the virus and the requirements that the ship and company must operate under. I do this so that those who are seeking compensation can make informed judgements on whether or not the ship and/or company met the legal requirements. I try not to make any comments or posts about whether compensation is justified or the amount of compensation, for any line or any situation, from this instance to the Costa Concordia.

 

I don't see anywhere in your posts here that you came down with noro (and if I'm wrong, I apologize), but if you did not become sick, then I don't see how your "health has been blighted". Now, your enjoyment of the cruise may have been blighted, but your health was not affected.

 

You made a comment about renewing a kitchen in a shoreside restaurant, and said that Oceania should read this, and I responded that the ship's galleys (any ship) is built to a higher standard than shoreside restaurants.

 

I'm sorry if my facts have interfered with your statements.

[kazu]

I made the suggestion to bring Imodium. It's not about not reporting it, it is so not to be charged $100 to get it on the ship or whatever Oceania charges these days. They do not sell it in the ship's store. I bring Imodium on land trips also because you just never know. It's part of my first aid kit along with aspirin etc. Or, is Oceania not charging Dr. fees to be checked? I have never been sick on a ship (knock on wood) but I know others that have been and it was very costly.

 

 

O offered a "free consult" (can't remember the right phrasing) so initial consult was free, but people were charged for the medications and whatever else was required (tests, etc.). I heard varying amounts and none of them were cheap. It's never a bad idea to bring some key meds, aspirin, motrin, zinc, antibiotics & things like immodium when you are in foreign ports. Europe does have a type of immodium but it is a different formula than here and how effective it is, I am unsure.

[LHT28]

I made the suggestion to bring Imodium. It's not about not reporting it, it is so not to be charged $100 to get it on the ship or whatever Oceania charges these days. They do not sell it in the ship's store. I bring Imodium on land trips also because you just never know. It's part of my first aid kit along with aspirin etc. Or, is Oceania not charging Dr. fees to be checked? I have never been sick on a ship (knock on wood) but I know others that have been and it was very costly.

I am not sure imodium would even help with the effects of NORO & with a virus like that it is better out than in ;)

 

I know I was pretty sick last May

[Mura]

Regarding availability of meds in the shop on board, last May we were looking for plain old aspirin and couldn't find it. The clerk in the shop was brand new to the ship and all she knew was that there wasn't any to be found.

 

So we asked at Reception and were told that aspirin and things like it were no longer available because of the ship's liability. Supposedly a previous passenger bought some aspirin and ended up having an allergic reaction, so the solution was to eliminate the sale of such OTC meds.

 

I'm not sure that I believe this story (!) but there it is. So it's a good idea to bring along some basic things like aspirin and other standard meds if you think you might need them.

 

Coincidentally, this happened BEFORE we had the Noro outbreak on Marina.

 

Mura

[bitob]

We travel with a small pharmacy just in case

Cipro z packs cold meds pepto bismal Imodium Tylenol etc

we rarely use but it's a travel necessity

[kazu]

I am not sure imodium would even help with the effects of NORO & with a virus like that it is better out than in ;)

 

I know I was pretty sick last May

 

 

some physicians may disagree - one huge risk with Noro is dehydration. Consistent "out" can lead to loss of electrolytes and dehydration and necessitate I.V.'s

 

My sympathies that you ended up with it. It's a vicious thing for sure.

Edited December 10, 2015 by kazu

[robbie21]

We travel with a small pharmacy just in case

Cipro z packs cold meds pepto bismal Imodium Tylenol etc

we rarely use but it's a travel necessity

 

Agree completely. We do the same.

 

BUT talk to your doctor!! Know what to use the drugs for and when not to use them. Cipro is a pretty heavy duty antibiotic and is excellent for e coli infections, for example. Not effective for viral infections and often has rather severe side effects.

 

My doctor also reminds me that, at my age :eek: and with all the stuff I am already taking :( I should be damn careful and consult with a doctor rather than self prescribing. It's OK to have the stuff on hand to avoid the high cost and sometimes the availability of drugs but self treating with prescription drugs can make things worse. Do not avoid getting a professional diagnosis just because you are cheap. Half the ship may have Noro but you may have e coli or vice versa.

 

Robbie

[RJB]

Agree completely. We do the same.

 

BUT talk to your doctor!! Know what to use the drugs for and when not to use them. Cipro is a pretty heavy duty antibiotic and is excellent for e coli infections, for example. Not effective for viral infections and often has rather severe side effects.

 

My doctor also reminds me that, at my age :eek: and with all the stuff I am already taking :( I should be damn careful and consult with a doctor rather than self prescribing. It's OK to have the stuff on hand to avoid the high cost and sometimes the availability of drugs but self treating with prescription drugs can make things worse. Do not avoid getting a professional diagnosis just because you are cheap. Half the ship may have Noro but you may have e coli or vice versa.

 

Robbie

Agree also, our doctor gives us the cipro to have just in case. Been lucky and have not had to use it yet. Take plenty of stuff with us also just in case.

[LHT28]

some physicians may disagree - one huge risk with Noro is dehydration. Consistent "out" can lead to loss of electrolytes and dehydration and necessitate I.V.'s

 

My sympathies that you ended up with it. It's a vicious thing for sure.

Thankfully we knew enough to keep hydrated

DH was not as sick so he made a quick trip for gatorade & my neighbour an ER nurse kept checking on us