Gratuities & tips are not obligatory

[SRF]

The OP Diddybubby did NOT say thet he was not going to pay any tips (neither did I in my post) Just that they were going to pay who ever they wanted whenever they wanted.

 

Which he stated would be a LOT less than the standard tips.

[coops]

I think everyone is missing the point here.

 

The OP was about having the choice to tip just like we do for hairdressers, taxis, restaurants, hotels etc..... you tip what YOU want to tip.

 

You should not be forced to tip. To have the poverty police then come on to try and make you feel guilty will not wash with me.

 

Fact is YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY.......so for those of you who don't want to then don't. I most certainly will be having these removed when I board IOTH in September!

I really hope the cruise lines start adding tips to the cruise fare. That way people have no choice about it and if those so called non tippers choice a cruise they will have to save a little longer to go on that cruise. . Come on RCCL add the tips in the fare. Just saying.

[coops]

I think everyone is missing the point here.

 

The OP was about having the choice to tip just like we do for hairdressers, taxis, restaurants, hotels etc..... you tip what YOU want to tip.

 

You should not be forced to tip. To have the poverty police then come on to try and make you feel guilty will not wash with me.

 

Fact is YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY.......so for those of you who don't want to then don't. I most certainly will be having these removed when I board IOTH in September!

Then I hope you do it the first day , so management will know its you thats cheap and not the staff doing something wrong.

[SRF]

All while working for 60+ hours a week in a service job. The service staff on a cruise ship are not paid the same living wage as they are in your UK. Don't you get that??

 

Yes, people forget, or do not realize that cruise ship staff work 7 days a week for the duration of their contract (6 to 9 months typically). 8 - 10 hour day 7 week. And at least one poster thinks that $100 a week base is OK for them to be paid.

 

If their free time coincides with a port call, they may get off the ship for a bit.

[Tommy3putts]

The Philippines, Mexico, Jamaica, India, Ethiopia, Turkey, Ukraine, Russia. These are a few of the nationalities of the crew members I have had the honor of meeting and interacting with on my cruises. I have had the good fortune of learning their backgrounds, endeavors and sacrifices to make a better life for themselves and their families. Their 4 to 6 month contracts away from home, mailing money back to their families, and worrying whether or not their contract will be renewed. At the same time they have provided me a great memorable vacation on a cruise. I invite the OP to take the time and get to know as many of the crew on the ship as they can. These are good people trying to earn a living and not on a street corner asking for a handout.

 

Count me as one who thinks gratuities should be prepaid in full.

 

I hope you have a great cruise.

[Havingfun2010]

Hi All,

 

I just wanted to share something with new cruisers (and old if they do not know this).

 

As I am sure you are aware each cruiser will have gratuities & tips added to their SeaPass account every day (unless you have paid these in advance with your booking).

 

I don't actually agree with these automatic tips, as I feel that I should decide who has earned this & most importantly how much I wish to tip.

 

As a family of 5 travelling the cost per day @ $13.50 for 7 days will be quite considerable at $472.50! Now I can honestly say that I would never tip this much during a weeks land holiday so will certainly not be forced to pay this at sea.

 

Now for those of you not in the know, please take note. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY. That's right, there is not obligation on your part to pay. The booking information and website will not highlight this as RC want you to pay. When reading their information is does make you feel like this is obligatory, however if you read the very, very small print you will note this is not the case. All you need to do is go to reception on Day 1 and ask that these gratuities & tips are removed from your account....and voila!

 

You can then reward the staff members that you want to reward.

 

Happy cruising.

 

I love it when a person from another country, does not like the way things are when they travel. When I travel to Europe, I tip according to the local customs. When you come here, you need to do the same. I don't like paying the VAT taxes, and think it's unfair but I do. Guess it's better to stiff the employees. It's part of the trip, just like many places add service charges to restaurants in Europe.

[katiel53]

The gratuities are not "extra". Cruise lines could add them to the base cost, but not only would that cause fares to be higher but it would increase the amount they would have to pay out to TA's.

 

 

That is NOT the reason why the tips aren't added to the cruise cost. If someone prepays the tips, the agents don't get a percentage of that amount. It could be considered a non-commisionable fee if they were a service charge. There are other things that are NCF such as port charges and other fees.

[Hoopster95]

The tips ARE the wages.

My wish is that the tips would be made a non-removable service charge so that everyone would have to pay the same amount.

 

 

Please re-read little britain's 5 words. The service staff in question make $0.00 wage. 100% of their "wage" is the "tips" that we auto pay.

Wage = tips!

They truly are not "tips" in my view, and I feel extremely misrepresented by those words "tips" and "gratuity". How would you feel removing their auto-"wages" if that word is used in RCL's website instead of auto-"gratuities"? I feel most cruisers don't know that the service staff have no wage, and thus this heated thread.

 

I also feel that katie makes the next most valid point. It's total b.s. the cruise lines remove the wages of staff from the cruise fare just to make themselves look more competitive in base prices for each cabin. I believe it should not be labelled as a "gratuity"... Instead of paying $800 for a balcony I'd rather pay $1000, and $200 of that are wages for example... and then if my MDR staff is awesome, my stateroom attendant is awesome, the CL/DL bartender is awesome, etc I will actually "tip" them individually over and above their wages for being excellent, just like tips are meant to be.

[broberts]

I didn't say there was a misrepresentation. it is a fact that you can skip paying the auto-gratuities. In addition to the post above quoting the website, here are other points to consider...

 

1) The vast majority of service personnel income comes from the gratuities, not from RCI wages.

2) Cash in lieu of the automatic gratuities (as opposed to additional cash) must be "tip-shared" with non-front line service personnel in the same way as the automatic gratuities. Notice how the only individual service personnel called out in the list is the stateroom/suite attendant. The rest are groups of people, some of which you may never come into contact with. Yet the majority of their income is derived from the "gratuity".

3) Dining service personnel are providing their services beyond just dinner in the MDR... they also serve at other venues during mealtime. I guess you could "tip" appropriately at every meal, but that's a lot of work having to carry around cash at every meal and figuring out how many people helped you and what an appropriate gratuity would be.

4) If you have MTD in the MDR you may not get the same servers every evening, so it makes it more difficult to deliver the gratuity to "the right person".

 

1. Proof? I have not seen anything official from Royal Caribbean that outlines how much they pay service personnel, nor the ratio of their salary to the gratuities they receive.
   
2. Again, proof?
   
3. Dining service personnel are hired to perform certain tasks, some of those include serving in various venues. In other words, they are just doing their job as defined when they were hired.
   
4. True enough.
   

The argument that gratuities form a significant part of service personnel income is an argument in favor of not paying them a living wage.

 

Used to be that tips rewarded service above and beyond the norm. The arguments today suggest that one is morally obligated to pay gratuities, even when service is less than excellent.

[francot]

In my opinion the tip fee was the bare minimum to tip. Sure, I think most of us know we can remove them, but it should be utilized only for bad service, not because I can't afford to take my family of X. If you want to reward someone special then you pay beyond the suggested amount, not stiff the other staff.

 

I know if I worked my azz off in the back ground and my pay was dependent on tips, it would not make me feel better that your family of 5 had a good time.

 

Just saying.

[Trevor Fountain]

:'):'):'):') Well at least I am honest about what I will do.. I wonder how many readers will actually have these removed too (even you).....more than you will think I would imagine.

 

Nope you are not honest about it. Who are you? You're not really Diddybubby are you? That is just a made up name for this site. I bet you won't get on the ship and announce to all passengers , "I'm going to stiff the crew by not paying the gratuities. I'm going to let all you mugs pay the gratuities because I don't think the staff that look after me are worth it".

Go on, be honest, do it.

[cruisefan0110]

This is all very interesting. I will admit that I pre-pay gratuities. That being said, we have asked crew members about tipping. Per crew, when you tip in cash, the cabin attendant tips the person in the stock room who folds the towels/linens, to insure that his cart is ready to go. The stock room attendant tips the people in laundry to insure that the stock room is well supplied. All the way down line. The same types of hierarchies are in place in the dining room. The reason that the cruise lines started the service fee was there was a small percentage of crew that was less that honest when it came to tip amounts. Cruise lines are now doing this to make sure everything is divided equitably. It is also a lot easier on my time and budget to pre-pay. No reason to carry a bunch of extra cash on board.

 

The percentage of cruiser who remove (or don't) tip was about 20%. That number is admittedly from before the automatic gratuity. I could not believe the number was that high.

 

We enjoy talking with the crew members and getting to know a little about them. For a person with little international experience, it is fascinating to learn and appreciate the people who serve us so well.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps. Thank you.

[DCGuy64]

Wow, given some of the rude and condescending comments to the OP, I doubt he/she will ever come back here. Way to show the newbie some CC love. Sheesh..

And I think it's rather unfair to say "if you can't afford the 18% gratuity, don't come on the cruise." OK, so now you have fewer bookings because people assume they either pay the extra gratuities or don't cruise at all. I'm sure the poor guy or gal who ends up unemployed due to fewer bookings is gonna be happy with that, huh?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hoopster95]

1. Proof? I have not seen anything official from Royal Caribbean that outlines how much they pay their service personnel, nor the ratio of their salary and the gratuities they receive

 

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=52157079&highlight=team#post52157079

Scroll down to the last paragraph of the above post

 

"It was here I learned of something that was quite incredulous to me actually...follow me here:

The various bar venues are split into "teams"... so for example the bar staff in Boleros plus On Air are one team. The 18% gratuity on each bill is split within that team, not to everyone on the ship, so if one bar is better than the other (service, drinks, etc) and get more tips then those servers will get better income than a bar with poor service. Their wages are 100% dependent on tips from you and I. Anything extra added to a bill (or in cash) to a server is kept by the server 90%, 10% goes to the team. By the way, this applies to the stateroom attendants too I was told. I was floored. The next morning when I saw our excellent stateroom attendant I gave him another $50 after learning this. Please everyone, if you can afford to do so tip your excellent and deserved servers well when you can."

[Biker19]

Please re-read little britain's 5 words. The service staff in question make $0.00 wage. 100% of their "wage" is the "tips" that we auto pay.

I doubt that is true and we can have our resident expert verify this. All contracts probably have some floor, which the cruiseline guarantees, even if everyone removes their trips. Granted that floor could be quite low (probably the JMC min wage of $614 per month).

[BigHouseFootball]

I hate tipping. It annoys me. I wish America would move away from tipping. What irks me the most is that for some reason my tip is tied to how much I spend on my meal? How does that make sense.

 

My example is say I go to an Applebee's like restaurant. One day I go and order a burger for $10. I tip $1.50 because of my bill amount.

 

Now I go back the next day and say I order a steak for $20. Now I'm supppsed to tip $2.50. Why?! No more energy was done between the two meals, just what came on the one plate.

 

Now I understand being expected to tip more at a fancier place but the expectation is that the server is providing more information about the menu and how meals are prepared.

 

Basically tipping is 100% optional. Do what you feel comfortable with and don't let any one tip shame you. You want to tip on top of the suggested amount? Good for you. You want just the suggested amount? Go for it. You want to tip less? No problem. You want to tip nothing? That's your choice and don't let any one make you feel guilty.

[aubreyc1988]

My problem with the automatic tip is the level of service. I find that when the tip is just that a tip the service is better.

 

This could just be my experience, but I find I get the BEST service on a cruise ship, vs on land in a land restaurant, hotel, etc. The reason why tips are automatic now, is because so many people were removing tips, just like with the auto tips on drinks, etc. I have heard if you had terrible service, to write it on a comment card, and they take those VERY seriously and is a good way to comment on bad service, vs removing your tips and punishing those who have done nothing wrong.

[grammi]

My opinion if you can't afford the tips, you can't afford the cruise. If you still take the cruise knowing you will be removing the tips is just like stealing. I would not want to see gratuities included in the price because most of us would just feel that was part of the cruise price and tip more. Cruise employees are not going to change their behavior because of your not tipping. The employee not doing their job properly need more training or they need a complaint put in their file. That's what changes behavior or they will be gone. If an employee is truly not doing their job for you while on the cruise let a supervisor know.

[Hoopster95]

I doubt that is true and we can have our resident expert verify this. All contracts probably have some floor, which the cruiseline guarantees, even if everyone removes their trips. Granted that floor could be quite low (probably the JMC min wage of $614 per month).

 

Just relaying word for word what a service person told me. If it's untrue, then the service personnel lied to me straight up.

They also mentioned coming from Mariner in Oz/Asia that they were given $100 "wage" on each sailing as "tips" were awful on those sailings.

[jsausley]

Thanks for your comment nolesrules.

 

I get what you are saying, however staff wages should not be my concern.....there I have said it! Many will feel the exact same I am sure, but will not be brave enough say.

 

Having spent thousands on this cruise I do not feel it that I should automatically be forced to cough up almost $500 dollars.

 

That being said I always tip those I have had direct contact with that have given excellent service. Those behind the scenes will be missed, and that is something I honestly never thought about. Maybe I will offer something at the end to be shared, but most certainly not what that intend on adding.:(

 

Everything you just said makes sense but there are two problems.

 

1) Your "great" experience on board is the result of the work of probably 100-200 different crewmembers, but you will only remember or think of about 5 of these on a given cruise. It is impossible therefore for you to tip everyone who has had a part in helping give you this "great" cruising experience. This is not your fault or the fault of the crewmembers, but it is how the cruise industry has set up the system.

 

2) If everyone thought as you did, all of a sudden there would be a mass exodus of "good" cruise staff and you would be left with no workers, or workers will subpar skill and/or work ethic. Therefore the service will get worse and worse until people stop booking cruises again.

[LMaxwell]

2) Cash in lieu of the automatic gratuities (as opposed to additional cash) must be "tip-shared" with non-front line service personnel

 

This is often said on CC, but never has been corroborated. There are a number of different scenarios that would make this accounting virtually impossible, but I'll stick with the first point that it has not been corroborated, though it does seem to be accepted as factual. I'm just asking for proof.

 

How were non-front line service personnel paid prior to the automatic gratuity system?

[setsail]

this is often said on cc, but never has been corroborated. There are a number of different scenarios that would make this accounting virtually impossible, but i'll stick with the first point that it has not been corroborated, though it does seem to be accepted as factual. I'm just asking for proof.

 

How were non-front line service personnel paid prior to the automatic gratuity system?

 

#62

[mjkacmom]

Obviously you have never worked in a tipped service profession.

 

There are TWO minimum wages. One for most jobs and a separate LOWER one for jobs that expect tips.

 

If you want to see the cost of not tipping, try Copenhagen. There, the servers are insulted if you tip. They are paid a reasonable wage, so do not need or want to be tipped. But then again, lunch there can easily run $40 - $50 PER PERSON.

 

Go for it.

I'm not sure why you quoted me, yes I've worked for tips, I clearly mentioned the lower minimum wage for servers, which is why I definitely think people should generously tip their servers, and never remove them on cruises. My daughter is a full time college student, plus waitresses three shifts every weekend. Her paycheck is usually around $2, since she is also taxed on tips.

[AnnaDarel]

I hate tipping. It annoys me. I wish America would move away from tipping.

 

It will never happen in the US. The business lobby is too strong.

 

I delivered pizzas during the downturn in the economy. Great job!

 

I made $4.25/hour when delivering, that's about 2/3 minimum wage in my state.

 

So on an 8 hour shift, I cost the pizza company $34.

 

Plus mileage, so let's assume 30 miles at $0.24/mile, $7.2

 

Total cost to employer: $41.2

 

Now I make three deliveries per hour, for an average tip of, let's say, $3.50/delivery.

 

So I make $84 in tips. I earn $125.20 for the eight hour shift, but my employer only pays 33% of my wages.

 

33%!

 

Let's say the average order is $15. The pizza maker makes $360 total during my eight hours and only pays me $41.20, making a total profit of $318.8 that he can spend on cheese (our most expensive cost).

 

Thanks to the gullibility of the typical American who buys cheap pizza and tips well, I'm making a $15.60/hour wage, which is twice minimum wage (like I said, great job!), and my employer is rolling in money.

 

There's no way the restaurant industry would ever give that up, and I bet European businesses are dying to implement the system that puts the wage burden on the customer, not the business.

 

So the average Guatemalan family man is making triple wages for his country and Royal Caribbean is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

People who spend $6000 on a cruise for four people and can't dish out $500 for the tips are still cheap, though, because cruising is a luxury, not a right. Spend a week at the beach for $2000 instead, geez.

Edited August 15, 2017 by AnnaDarel
rolling. rolling in money.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

Wow, given some of the rude and condescending comments to the OP, I doubt he/she will ever come back here. Way to show the newbie some CC love. Sheesh..

And I think it's rather unfair to say "if you can't afford the 18% gratuity, don't come on the cruise." OK, so now you have fewer bookings because people assume they either pay the extra gratuities or don't cruise at all. I'm sure the poor guy or gal who ends up unemployed due to fewer bookings is gonna be happy with that, huh?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Basically tipping is 100% optional. Do what you feel comfortable with and don't let any one tip shame you. You want to tip on top of the suggested amount? Good for you. You want just the suggested amount? Go for it. You want to tip less? No problem. You want to tip nothing? That's your choice and don't let any one make you feel guilty.

 

People are tough on the OP because what they want to do is just plain wrong. Clearly, you two, nor the OP, have ever worked in the American service industry. Whether you like to hear it or not, your tips are our wages and if you walk out of a restaurant and tip nothing, you just stiffed a server their pay and should 100% feel guilty (unless you have a valid reason). It would be wonderful if we made living wages, but that is simply not the case.

 

If you can't afford to tip on your cruise, you shouldn't go on your cruise in the first place. Same with going out to eat.