Itinerary Change. Am I being reasonable?

[SeaShark]

By "US State Law" I mean the laws of each individual state. Every state has laws prohibiting fraud. The law of each individual state is set either by that state's legislature (voted on by state legislators) OR by law developed by that state's courts in a line of cases (known as "common law" judges develop this law as has been the practice dating back to the formation of the United States and which has its genesis is English Common Law...from our former rulers). In most states it's common law that prohibits fraud and a breach of the duty of good faith and fair dealing. Some states though do so by statute enacted by its legislature. The exact outlines of what is "fraud" varies, but no state would allow a company to continue to advertise something it already knows it can not sell, even if the reason it can't sell it was not its fault.

 

And once again, rather the law of US states being in play against cruise lines operating in international waters, its US maritime law and related treaties that govern these contracts). Most companies who want to operate in the US (sell to US customers) must do so under the laws of the US states where they advertise to their customers based in that state. Most of us are used to the protections provided by those law (even if we don't think about it much). Maritime law is its own special animal and as I've said a reason why each cruise customer should do everything to protect themselves with insurance

 

Well, only the ships operate in international waters (SOME of the time). Maritime law only applies to guests contracted to sail...not to everyone else. The company itself is a US Company headquartered in Miami FL. They advertise to members of the public (oftentimes across State lines) who have NOT entered into a contract with them. How are they not subject to a) the laws of the State of Florida, b) the laws of the State where the potential client resides, and c) the laws of the United States itself, especially those covering interstate commerce?

[Maya1234]

Maritime law only applies to guests contracted to sail...not to everyone else.

 

If they haven't contracted to sail, how could they have any damages? I have to say I am not very up on the details of maritime law and the related treaties that enforce it. I just know that it is very different than most other US law and favors the cruise ships mightily.

[badtzmaru]

Hi everyone. Thanks again for all of your support and words of advice.

 

I spoke with Katherine at the executive office today, and she agreed to allow us to change our reservation.

 

We decided to make the cleanest change and move to the Getaway Western Caribbean cruise that sails one day later, 12/03. This helps us avoid having to reorganize my time out of the office, and my fiancé's request for leave from the Air Force.

 

I'm glad that NCL did the right thing. It helps us cruise with confidence again.

 

Although the opinions in the thread varied, I truly appreciate everyone's input. Many of you provided words of encouragement, and I'm grateful for the time you took to speak on the issue.

 

You have even taught me a thing or two about cruising that I think we'll help us plan our future trips. :D

 

I want everyone to know, my decision to escalate this was solely based on principle. The principle behind our marriage, along with the principle of clear and honest advertising.

 

Thank you for all of the well wishes for our wedding and marriage as well.

 

I will keep an eye on the thread, and will keep you updated with photos from our wedding and cruise.

 

Josh

[GlamorousGirl]

It is the cruise ships fault for going to a country whose people openly discriminates against, punishes with jail time and in some cases murder people just because of their sexuality. It's a little more then just not liking Jamaica when it comes to the LGBT community. How would you feel about visiting a country that you know your are not welcome in? For those of you interested, I have attached a link to an article about Jamaica and its stance on homosexuality.

https://www.thecaribbeancurrent.com/homosexuality-in-jamaica-and-the-caribbean/

 

As I said before, no matter what ports they changed their itinerary to they were not going to be able to please everyone. I am sure there are people who would object to any of the other islands and have good reason for doing so too, and who would object to anyone saying your reason was more important and NCL should make an exception for you and not them. But that does not mean that the new ports booked must be agreeable to everyone. In the contract, we are stuck agreeing to have our itineraries changed whether we want to go to the new destinations or not, and regardless of the reason we may or may not want to go there. That's why they recommend travel insurance, so we have an "out" of our contractual obligation.

[JVilleGal]

Congratulations for being your own best Advocate! Safe journey and have a fabulous wedding :)

[robbysbabe]

This was an extremely intriguing post!

I was go to initially respond that I 100% agree that with the facts you provided, that NCL needed to make this right for you.

 

And now I get to say yea!!!

I am so happy they did the right thing!!

 

I didn't view this ad a "win" or an "exception" or a need for "insurance" that so many were trying to argue for and against / you had valid legitimate reasons for needing and expecting your favorable outcome!!

 

Enjoy your wedding and honeymoon!!

And thank you to your fiance for serving our Country!!

 

AF Mom here :*

[Maya1234]

I'm so happy you and your fiancé ( and thanks to him for his service!). No one should have to deal with being in a port where their very existence is criminalized. Let's give NCL credit for recognizing that this was an unusual situation and that it deserved a special exception.

[robbysbabe]

I'm so happy you and your fiancé ( and thanks to him for his service!). No one should have to deal with being in a port where their very existence is criminalized. Let's give NCL credit for recognizing that this was an unusual situation and that it deserved a special exception.

 

AGREE!! Not always happy with the Cruise lines - this was warranted and they did the right thing (without too much fight)

[Gershep]

Glad it worked out for you. Congratulations!

[DMH15]

Hi everyone. Thanks again for all of your support and words of advice.

 

 

 

I spoke with Katherine at the executive office today, and she agreed to allow us to change our reservation.

 

 

 

We decided to make the cleanest change and move to the Getaway Western Caribbean cruise that sails one day later, 12/03. This helps us avoid having to reorganize my time out of the office, and my fiancé's request for leave from the Air Force.

 

 

 

I'm glad that NCL did the right thing. It helps us cruise with confidence again.

 

 

 

Although the opinions in the thread varied, I truly appreciate everyone's input. Many of you provided words of encouragement, and I'm grateful for the time you took to speak on the issue.

 

 

 

You have even taught me a thing or two about cruising that I think we'll help us plan our future trips. :D

 

 

 

I want everyone to know, my decision to escalate this was solely based on principle. The principle behind our marriage, along with the principle of clear and honest advertising.

 

 

 

Thank you for all of the well wishes for our wedding and marriage as well.

 

 

 

I will keep an eye on the thread, and will keep you updated with photos from our wedding and cruise.

 

 

 

Josh

 

 

 

Good for you, Josh. Wishing you and your future husband, (name?), many years of happiness. Like I posted earlier, the cruise I eventually took after my two cancellations ended up being one of my favorites. I can hear my mom's voice saying that everything happens for a reason.

 

 

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[tarps14]

Hi everyone. Thanks again for all of your support and words of advice.

 

I spoke with Katherine at the executive office today, and she agreed to allow us to change our reservation.

 

We decided to make the cleanest change and move to the Getaway Western Caribbean cruise that sails one day later, 12/03. This helps us avoid having to reorganize my time out of the office, and my fiancé's request for leave from the Air Force.

 

I'm glad that NCL did the right thing. It helps us cruise with confidence again.

 

Although the opinions in the thread varied, I truly appreciate everyone's input. Many of you provided words of encouragement, and I'm grateful for the time you took to speak on the issue.

 

You have even taught me a thing or two about cruising that I think we'll help us plan our future trips. :D

 

I want everyone to know, my decision to escalate this was solely based on principle. The principle behind our marriage, along with the principle of clear and honest advertising.

 

Thank you for all of the well wishes for our wedding and marriage as well.

 

I will keep an eye on the thread, and will keep you updated with photos from our wedding and cruise.

 

Josh

 

And as promised, I will now, happily, eat my words. So very happy this worked out for you guys. NCL stepped up and did the right thing in this case. Now go and have the time of your lives! :*

 

Save

[ozscotart]

We wish you all the best and are very pleased you have had a change of heart from NCL, and that have provided both a just and happy solution for you !

 

 

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[soccermommy]

OP, I am really happy this worked out for you. NCL did drop the ball by not keeping you informed, and by not keeping up to date information on their website.

I have a feeling that keeping the entire website current got overlooked in all the chaos from the Hurricanes. It's no excuse, though, and I'm glad NCL made good.

I have found NCL's website is better than a number of cruislines, though. There are pages of complaints, and some horror stories, on Celebrity, another line we cruise, so we have learned to trust, then verify!

Best of luck on your upcoming celebration, and thanks to your fiancé for his much appreciated service!

[ACeruland]

4. Are you telling me that EVERY gay person has been unable to stay closeted for one day in Jamaica? Perhaps stay away from river rafting and do the zip line?

 

 

I just stumbled upon this thread, and I had to say something about this comment, which I find to be enormously insulting and ignorant. It's 2017. No one should be forced back into the closet out of fear for their safety, and they certainly shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of doing so. I'm certainly glad you're not MY travel agent.

 

OP - I'm so happy things worked out for you! I wish you were sailing on Getaway a week later so I could buy you and your new husband a drink to toast your marriage. Congratulations!

[maggie cruises]

I just stumbled upon this thread, and I had to say something about this comment, which I find to be enormously insulting and ignorant. It's 2017. No one should be forced back into the closet out of fear for their safety, and they certainly shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of doing so. I'm certainly glad you're not MY travel agent.

 

 

 

OP - I'm so happy things worked out for you! I wish you were sailing on Getaway a week later so I could buy you and your new husband a drink to toast your marriage. Congratulations!

 

 

 

Otoh it's a wise move to do what one must if they are faced with a situation that might be harmful to them

 

 

There are times when being PC or trying to prove a point must take a backseat to personal safety

 

As a heterosexual female I know to watch where I walk...who I walk by...and how I dress...in many many various situations

 

Should I walk past a gang of thugs in a revealing outfit on a side street in say Nassau...just because I want to...I can...and I want to prove a point?

 

Nope because I'm not an idiot

 

 

Fwiw...I don't book cruises that visit Nassau any longer and as far as the op is concerned they had a valid concern and ncl made an accommodation for them

 

Had ncl not made that accommodation then the wise thing for the op to have done is stay on the ship in Jamaica and in the future book a different cruise line.

 

 

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[sjbdtz]

For a couple reasons... and not because my personal opinions about Jamaica.

 

For starters, my American Express offers automatic travel protection for purchases made directly with a carrier. I worked for Amex in college and they are very consumer friendly when it comes to disputes such as this.

 

Secondly, the company advertised the incorrect itinerary for an entire month after the decision had been made to change, and did not notify me until I was precisely within my 60 day cancellation period.

 

Congratulations on your impending nuptials. Glad to see Katherine was able to help you get into a replacement scenario which meets your needs.

 

Stephen

 

 

 

Way better than Nassau and probably better than St Marteen now.

 

People give Jamaica bad publicity for really no apparent reason. It’s a lovely island not like St Thomas and Grand Cayman but it’s still a very safe place if you know what you are doing. Many things to do which makes it a very good stop.

 

 

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Please, this is just offensive. There are several reasons why some people would find Jamaica terrifying: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-besen/jamaica-a-killer-vacation_b_185792.html

 

or this:

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/21/jamaica-unchecked-homophobic-violence which includes this quote: “LGBT people in Jamaica face intolerable levels of violence and cannot rely on the police,”

 

So yes, it may be a picturesque island, but it requires gay people to potentially disavow who they are, in order to visit - for this reason it's not simply an alternative to the other islands.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[NEUTRONINCT]

I understand your frustration but at the same time I have to ask, do you realize what the people on the island you can’t get to are going through! Weddings are a huge life event but Mother Nature has its own plan. Be happy that you are in love and make other plans. Don’t be upset because your cruise line changed ports because of a natural disaster. Be in love be happy, but remember all the people who are suffering from the loss of the tourism to their island.

 

 

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[Shawnino]

Otoh it's a wise move to do what one must if they are faced with a situation that might be harmful to them

 

 

There are times when being PC or trying to prove a point must take a backseat to personal safety

 

As a heterosexual female I know to watch where I walk...who I walk by...and how I dress...in many many various situations

 

Should I walk past a gang of thugs in a revealing outfit on a side street in say Nassau...just because I want to...I can...and I want to prove a point?

 

Nope because I'm not an idiot

 

 

Fwiw...I don't book cruises that visit Nassau any longer and as far as the op is concerned they had a valid concern and ncl made an accommodation for them

 

Had ncl not made that accommodation then the wise thing for the op to have done is stay on the ship in Jamaica and in the future book a different cruise line.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

This.

A person can try to get off the ship in Saudi Arabia in a bikini.

A person can travel to North Korea and do anything at all.

But why chance it.

If it's dangerous, don't go. Otherwise, control yourself and behave.

 

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

When in any foreign country it's best to respect their laws, customs, and behavioural conventions.

[LrgPizza]

Hi everyone. Thanks again for all of your support and words of advice.

 

I spoke with Katherine at the executive office today, and she agreed to allow us to change our reservation.

 

We decided to make the cleanest change and move to the Getaway Western Caribbean cruise that sails one day later, 12/03. This helps us avoid having to reorganize my time out of the office, and my fiancé's request for leave from the Air Force.

 

I'm glad that NCL did the right thing. It helps us cruise with confidence again.

 

Although the opinions in the thread varied, I truly appreciate everyone's input. Many of you provided words of encouragement, and I'm grateful for the time you took to speak on the issue.

 

You have even taught me a thing or two about cruising that I think we'll help us plan our future trips. :D

 

I want everyone to know, my decision to escalate this was solely based on principle. The principle behind our marriage, along with the principle of clear and honest advertising.

 

Thank you for all of the well wishes for our wedding and marriage as well.

 

I will keep an eye on the thread, and will keep you updated with photos from our wedding and cruise.

 

Josh

Congrats on your upcoming nuptials! I'm glad NCL was able and willing to work this out for you.

[Bocadude85]

As I said before, no matter what ports they changed their itinerary to they were not going to be able to please everyone. I am sure there are people who would object to any of the other islands and have good reason for doing so too, and who would object to anyone saying your reason was more important and NCL should make an exception for you and not them. But that does not mean that the new ports booked must be agreeable to everyone. In the contract, we are stuck agreeing to have our itineraries changed whether we want to go to the new destinations or not, and regardless of the reason we may or may not want to go there. That's why they recommend travel insurance, so we have an "out" of our contractual obligation.

 

It has nothing to do with pleasing any particular group of people, we are talking about human rights. Jamaica is not a safe place for the LGBT community and NCL does have a duty to look out for the safety of its passengers.

[BensonFan711]

Ok, so I'm going to suggest a back up plan to settle your legal issues because I've considered a cruise wedding, and should we go this route, this is how we plan to do it:

 

The cruise ceremony will be purely ceremonial. Yes, we'll have the dress and the flowers and family and go through all the motions, but with those licensing fees???? I can pay for one of my parents to sail for that cost! So, the alternative is to run down to your local courthouse before or after you sail and take care of the legal marriage. Bring two witnesses with you. Done. Literally everything else can be done wherever you like.

 

I know it's not your ideal wedding, but given the issues you seem to be having, there is still a way to have a beautiful wedding in the Caribbean, and have it be completely legal in the United States.

 

Congratulations on your upcoming marriage!

[BensonFan711]

Getaway is a wonderful ship!! I’m sure you’ll have a great time.

 

 

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[Cyber Kat]

So, what do you book it on? The colour of the captain's eyes? Every single person who books, books on itinerary.

 

 

 

I don’t! I book on departure port, ship, number of total day, number of sea days, then maybe itinerary. If I want to go to a destination, I fly there. If I’m cruising, I’m more interested in the cruise experience than where the ship is going.

 

 

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[sas1]

To abe3. Numpty! People are entitled to be unhappy with changes that dramatically change their dream holiday. NCL are profiting on changed itineraries which reduce port stops and failing to compensate customers. I think people should tell them exactly how they feel!

Edited October 25, 2017 by sas1
Trying to quite

[Loonbeam]

NCL is making money, but as noted repeatedly, and repeatedly, adding sea days to the itinerary reduces profits, not adds to them. Also taking into the costs of making the changes, logistics revisions, etc and just general bad vibes, they are almost certainly not seeing as much profits on the altered itineraries as they would on the base ones.

 

Again, no cruise line EVER changes itineraries because they WANT to as almost every time it is to the detriment of the bottom line and customer satisfaction.

 

 

To abe3. Numpty! People are entitled to be unhappy with changes that dramatically change their dream holiday. NCL are profiting on changed itineraries which reduce port stops and failing to compensate customers. I think people should tell them exactly how they feel!