Itinerary Change. Am I being reasonable?

[cruiser123!]

I don't think you are being unreasonable. You have valid concerns, possibly for safety, to avoid Jamaica. FWIW I'm sad you have to deal with that sort of ignorance. Love is a beautiful thing that should be openly embraced by all. Many blessings to you and your fiancé on your pending nuptials.

[RevCindy]

I'm sorry for your situation. If you were on my 11/27 cruise, I was going to offer to marry you for free on the ship! I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. Folks all over CC are complaining about port changes for far less important reasons than you are. I hope you are able to work it all out. And blessings on your upcoming marriage!!

[DMH15]

So might you be just a little upset if NCL invoked their right to substitute any other other ship regardless of who owns it?

 

 

 

LOL. That happened to me TWICE this year when we booked the Jade aft PH out of Houston, (Jewel is my 2nd fave and Jade is Jewel class)... fast forward my replacement cruise of Jade PH out of Tampa was chartered by sixthman for a music cruise.

 

What NCL offered me price protected were Dawn, (a ship I had previously sailed and disliked) or Epic, a ship I had no interest in, as a mega ship wasn't on my radar.

 

I took a chance on Epic. But there were three of us and our 3 person PH on Jade did not transfer to Epic well so we ponied up more cash and did the Deluxe Owners Suite. Ended up with a much different cruise than I originally chose.

 

 

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[dacsmom]

So, what do you book it on? The colour of the captain's eyes? Every single person who books, books on itinerary.

 

And where do you get your expert knowledge from? I do not care where I sail to. I book for the ship.

 

To the OP, I really hope you have a wonderful wedding and fantastic cruise. I am not a Jamaica fan either, and I certainly can understand your reluctance to visit that port. It does sound like a lovely day for a couples massage on the ship though.

[dacsmom]

Also not sure why people hate going to Jamaica. Never had an issues there and IMO is a much better stop than Nassau.

 

 

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Jamaica is an extremely homophobic country and is generally not safe for couples who want to spend time together and experience public displays of affection that are normal on any honeymoon.

[zqvol]

For a couple reasons... and not because my personal opinions about Jamaica.

 

For starters, my American Express offers automatic travel protection for purchases made directly with a carrier. I worked for Amex in college and they are very consumer friendly when it comes to disputes such as this.

 

Secondly, the company advertised the incorrect itinerary for an entire month after the decision had been made to change, and did not notify me until I was precisely within my 60 day cancellation period.

 

Hate to be te barer of good news but your cancellation period was not 60 days, but it was 90.

 

Good luck prevailing on a CC dispute. If everyone who didn't like an itinerary change disputed a charge for a reason like that then both the CC company and the cruise lines would go out of business.

[abe3]

Hate to be te barer of good news but your cancellation period was not 60 days, but it was 90.

 

 

 

Good luck prevailing on a CC dispute. If everyone who didn't like an itinerary change disputed a charge for a reason like that then both the CC company and the cruise lines would go out of business.

 

 

 

Yep exactly right. I feel for the OP about their situation but there are ways around making the cruise a great cruise.

 

 

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[maggie cruises]

Here's a hypothetical question...

 

If the cruise added Cuba to the itinerary and you are steadfastly against spending one dime in this country....including port charges...can you insist on a refund?

 

 

Now think it through carefully before answering...and please no need to say how beautiful the country is or how wonderful the people are etc....

 

 

My neighbors..American citizens now of course...but Cuban refugees in 1959... who lost everything..are steadfastly against ever setting foot in Cuba again ....so if that port were added (unlikely of course because ncl likes to gouge the prices of Cuba cruises so it's doubtful they would ever make it a replacement port plus there is a visa requirement ) ....imho...if a pax doesn't want to take the cruise with Cuba in it...then they get their money back period!

 

Same for Jamaica with regard to the reason (gay unfriendly) the op gives

 

 

This of course is not a reason to request refund for all cruises just because the replacement ports don't appeal to you but it is a very valid reason when it comes to CERTAIN ports for CERTAIN reasons

 

A few years ago some European cruise line added Tripoli of all places as a last minute port a few weeks before embarkation and this caused numerous issues for the Americans on the cruise

 

Don't recall the outcome but Tripoli is not the 1st place I'd want to go nor does the state Dept advise me to visit

 

 

 

 

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Edited October 8, 2017 by maggie cruises

[maggie cruises]

Same sex marriage is not possible on the new itinerary and NCL were aware of OPs intentions when they booked and NCL were also aware that the itinerary had changed while not informing the customer booking a major life event of this. Lack of care and attention at the very least, deliberate lack of care is also possible given the circumstances.

 

 

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Deliberate? Ncl is very gay friendly or at least they used to be.

 

Not every male crew member has a wife and 12 kids back home

 

 

 

 

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[Maverick61]

I don't want to get political, but do you think I'm being reasonable in my requests?

 

No, you are not being reasonable. I understand your concern, but the cruise contracts allow for itinerary changes. Obviously, 2 hurricanes have disrupted schedules. What makes your reason for an exception different than anyone elses? I realize it is important to you, but everyone who wants to change thinks their reason entitles them to special consideration.

 

That is why they sell insurance

 

As suggested, stay on the ship and enjoy the day there when in Jamaica. Many people skip getting off in certain ports for a variety of reasons

Edited October 8, 2017 by Maverick61

[Maya1234]

YIn the law of every state of the US what NCL is doing would likely be illegal. It doesn't matter if the contract says they can change the itinerary " for any reason" they can't sell an intenerary they know isn't going to go. They can't have their agents tell you they don't know if there's going to be an itinerary change when they have already made the decision. They can't deliberately wait to tell you of a change right when cacellation rules change ( and the fact that this was the timing would be evidence they did it deliberately)The issue though is that it's not normal US state law that applies to cruise ships sailing under international flags in international waters. There is complicated maritime and treaty law that applies. That law protects the cruise companies. What they do " feels" wrong to many because no US based company could get away with the stuff they do ( another example is still selling spa passes on a ship where they know the spa will be closed) But if you want most cruises you have to live with it and get the best protection/ insurance you can. There really are no other options.

[kitkat343]

Also not sure why people hate going to Jamaica. Never had an issues there and IMO is a much better stop than Nassau.

We've never had any problems, but have carefully selected vendors for private excursions during our visits to Jamaica. The island is beautiful and has a lot of lovely attractions.

 

Other tourists on our ship/all inclusive resort who randomly wandered around tourist areas have told me that they were unhappy because the vendors are aggressive. People say the same thing about Roatan, and I really love it there. If you carefully plan your trip, I think most people will be safe and have a lovely time in Jamaica. However, we are a heterosexual family so I honestly have no idea how safe the OP would be in Jamaica.

 

If the OP is certain you will cancel the cruise, then it can't hurt to dispute the charges with AMEX. So sorry about this experience, and I hope you have a lovely wedding.

[Paulras]

To the OP, regardless of contract legality, I've always found that a carefully worded snail mail letter to the CEO gets better results than all the calls to customer service.

 

I would stress your respect and appreciation for ncl's highly positive standing in LGBT travel and their support for IGLTA (international gay and lesbian travel association). State that you do not want to cancel out right because you want to continue to provide your business to NCL and ask that they simply move you to a different ship and itinerary.

 

Couldn't hurt to try. Be sure to include your phone number. Address it to the CEO by name and send a cc to customer service.

 

This has gotten me a call back from Jamie Dimon's chief of staff who fixed in a day what a month of calls to supervisors at Chase Bank said they couldn't do. And the resolution of a dispute with a Hyundai dealer that resulted in a check for $500 being sent to me.

 

Good luck and congrats!

 

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[ozscotart]

Deliberate? Ncl is very gay friendly or at least they used to be.

 

Not every male crew member has a wife and 12 kids back home

 

 

 

 

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It is entirely possible, even likely, that some of the call centre people they were speaking too where they were being given incorrect info about the itinerary initially and possibly later about cancellation were in fact not motivated to be helpful. I was not referring to the crew on any ship, you have twisted my words and gone off topic.

 

 

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[reaton]

Back to the OPs statement about AMEX. Is it possible that you are referring to the travel protections offered by the card and not disputing the charge as a way of getting your money back? I’m not familiar with your particular AMEX’s travel protections, but I do know I just opted not to get travel insurance for the first time since my chase travel card offered all the same benefits as a perk of the card.

 

As for the rest you seem to have a great outlook. Deal if you must, change if you can.

 

Lastly, you had mentioned others being booked to go with you. Is it possible for someone to get ordained and perform the ceremony for you on the ship? I know this is a relatively easy process in the us, but don’t know the specifics abroad.

 

 

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[StolidCruiser]

In summary, you are not being reasonable.

 

You booked your destination wedding at the zenith of the aftermath of destruction you were well aware of on the advice of someone who did not want you to cancel your ceremony/celebration. You also didn't insure such a booking, opting to save money in light of the tumultuous situation ripe for potential change.

 

All cruiselines are now faced with difficult decisions on how to reroute their scheduled intineraries in such a way to meet their contractual obligations. In doing so, your itinerary has been changed to one you have a personal and moral objection to visiting.

 

This is the culmination of a very unfortunate series of events that are understandably frustrating and upsetting. However, NCL is under no obligation to provide you with special treatment but equal treatment.

 

Discussing it with my son and his husband, they were of the opinion they would not want to visit Jamaica either but expressed it was a very personal decision that not everyone would make. They also did not, under the circumstances, think you should be allowed to cancel/change without penalty for your specific reasons (while others could not).

 

You may think you have an option to dipute the charge with your credit card but this option is almost guaranteed to fail. However, you may have coverage beyond just "dispute resolution" that may provide some relief.

 

In light of the seriousness of widespread devastation and the cruiselines effort to serve the majority of it's customers in the best way possible, you got caught with a short end of a stick. Sometimes that happens to us in life. How we deal with it and move on is a testament to our character.

 

Pause, reflect and reconsider. You may find something even better to commemorate your union from this situation that surpasses the original plan.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[beerman2]

Yes, all kinds of reasons. But "itinerary" does come into play at least marginally for embarkment? I am one where itinerary IS the priority. I couldn't care less about the ship. Fortunately it's rare overall for itinerary changes. Just sailing the Caribbean and sitting on a ship (equal to staying in a hotel and no leaving) is not enough for me. It really has to have at least 1 preferred port for my preferences.

 

I hope the OP finds a solution. I would also suggest just staying on the ship in Jamica.

 

I agree it's important to many, however my response was to a poster who said EVERYBODY books on itineraries.

 

That's simply not the case. Had they said MANY or majority it changes the whole complexion.

[Going Coastal]

Plan something fun for your group on board the day the ship lands in Jamaica and don’t spend any money on shore there. That is the best statement you can make.

[pe4all]

OP - I definitely feel for you. Letters (certify them, so you know someone received them) to NCL Customer Care, President of NCL, etc. may work. Explain the whole situation factually, including who you spoke with and when. On our last Carnival cruise, our ship (Splendor) had major propulsion issues leaving San Juan, and the last few days of our itinerary- which included St. Thomas - were missed as we headed straight back (slowly) to Miami. 4 couples had destination weddings set up in St. Thomas. One couple had 35 people waiting on the island for them for the wedding. At least 2 got married ON the ship the next day. Maybe you can be married on the ship, and have a honeymoon cruise!

[abe3]

YIn the law of every state of the US what NCL is doing would likely be illegal. It doesn't matter if the contract says they can change the itinerary " for any reason" they can't sell an intenerary they know isn't going to go. They can't have their agents tell you they don't know if there's going to be an itinerary change when they have already made the decision. They can't deliberately wait to tell you of a change right when cacellation rules change ( and the fact that this was the timing would be evidence they did it deliberately)The issue though is that it's not normal US state law that applies to cruise ships sailing under international flags in international waters. There is complicated maritime and treaty law that applies. That law protects the cruise companies. What they do " feels" wrong to many because no US based company could get away with the stuff they do ( another example is still selling spa passes on a ship where they know the spa will be closed) But if you want most cruises you have to live with it and get the best protection/ insurance you can. There really are no other options.

 

 

 

NCL didn’t do it deliberately. They can change any port without any reason. This also is a very unusual circumstance that most other cruise lines are dealing with because of the devastation of the islands.

 

NCL has done a great job considering the circumstances with communication and change of ports but of course will not make everyone happy. There will always be people out there just like yourself that they will never please even if they give you a free cruise.

 

 

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[GlamorousGirl]

While I sympathize with your plight, I don't think it's reasonable to dispute the charges with the credit card company, because you had to have agreed to terms including a change of itinerary due to an act of God (hurricane) the cruise has no control over. They had no choice, it's not their fault, and you accepted the stipulation. It's also not the cruise ships fault you don't like Jamaica. There is no way they were going to please everyone with their itinerary change. Like others have said, get insurance next time, and this time see if the Captain can marry you on the ship or there is some port (including embarkation port) that will work for you. Then you can make the Jamaica port day a "sea day" for you and stay on the ship.

[Maya1234]

 

 

 

Prior to booking, I called NCL to ask about the Eastern Itinerary. There were cruises still listed for Oct/Nov/Dec for the Epic Eastern Caribbean. I asked if the itinerary had been updated, and was advised it had not at that point, and would only be changed if additional storms impacted the areas.

 

After our conversation with NCL, we booked our venue, photographer, officiant, and December 2nd cruise. I even sent my marriage application to St. Thomas with the $200 fee.

 

This week, I got the email that everyone else appears to be receiving, about the itinerary change. My heart dropped a bit when I saw Jamaica on the itinerary (Jamaica has gotten better, but is known to be homophobic, and even still has laws banning gay activity). We went from having our wedding planned in St. Thomas to a location where we won't feel comfortable even getting off the boat. Conveniently, I received the email the day my cancellation fee went to 75% (60 Days prior to sailing).

 

I called the number in the email and got the robotic call center rep, telling me that if I wanted to change I would have to pay the fee. They gave me the number to the executive office to get me off the phone, and I called there as well. Dawn at the executive office had no empathy to the situation, and just kept saying "You can cancel, for 75%".

 

When I visited the NCL website, the old itinerary was still listed (and was, up until yesterday - 10/06).

 

It appears that NCL left the old itinerary on their site for an entire month before updating it. This upset me further. During my initial call confirming the itinerary, the representative said "What is on our site is up to date". Now, I am finding out that appears to be false.

 

 

As I said under US law ( every state) if true this would be considered a deliberate fraudulent representation.

 

 

NCL has no control over storms. They have control over their website and ( again US LAW) responsibility for whatever is said by customer service reps. They can't under that law post an itinerary they already know isn't going even if the contract says they can "change for any reason "

 

 

The fact that they were " busy" because of storms or " doing their best" provides no excuse under US Law.

 

 

But as I also said given that it is instead international/treaty/maritime law that applies the OP is out of luck legally most likely.

 

 

I would try one more appeal to someone high in the company based on your genuine and appropriate fear based on your sexual orientation.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Maya1234

[NLH Arizona]

YIn the law of every state of the US what NCL is doing would likely be illegal.

What does this have to do with NCL, they are not a state in the US?

[Laszlo]

What annoyes the heck out of me is emails like I got last Tuesday morning October 3rd. This was the second time in three weeks I was emailed about our new itenerary on the BA 14 day cruise 2-2-18. Haven't heard anything since

 

Laszlo:

 

Thank you for you for your patience, we are hopeful that we will have all port confirmations in this morning and the letters will go out this afternoon or first thing Thursday morning.

 

Best,

 

Vivian 薇薇安

Vivian Ewart| Vice President, Passenger Services

North America and China

vewart@ncl.com

305-436-4011 | fax 305-436-4036

NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINE

7665 Corporate Center Drive | Miami FL 33126

[Maya1234]

What does this have to do with NCL, they are not a state in the US?

 

My original post was why many feel what NCL is doing is wrong. Any other business even if foreign would be governed by the law of any US state in which they advertised or took phone calls from.

 

Ships are different only because of US treaties and the circumstances of maritime law. It's really not about what the contract says when the type of misrepresentations are occurring as here. That's why many think it's " unfair". Almost any other business couldn't get away with this stuff. But NCL like all foreign based ships operating internationally can. So the lesson is insure insure insure.