Gratuity Removal Too Easy?

[RDC1]

Sorry, but your information is a little wrong. Not US Flagged Ships, crews are not subject to US IRS rules. The Corporations do report US Profits but only after running through several management and holding companies.

 

The bottom line is real advantages to the cruise lines to keep the charges exactly as they are.

 

 

Not quite. The Corporations file all required financial disclosures required by the US SEC which is far more then just profits. For example the last 10Q (quarterly report) filed by CCL had the following major sections:

 

1. Financial Statements

2. Managements Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and results of operations

3. Qualitative and Quantitative Disclosures about Market Risk

4. Controls and Procedures

 

This data is in sufficient detail that one can understand a great deal about the industry and its operations.

 

For example CCL across its lines last quarter spent $16.75 per passenger per day for fuel, and $12.32 per passenger per day for food.

[RDC1]

Any chance they keep up the fiction b/c it helps corporate out from a tax perspective? That seems the most obvious reason why they keep these as "discretionary"...

 

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tips-versus-service-charges-how-to-report

 

 

Actually it doesn't help the company from a tax perspective. If they could not treat it as tips, they would have to run it through their financial system as both income and expense (salary to crew). The benefit to the company is in financial reporting, showing a higher net margin then they would have if it was considered as part of income and expense.

 

The benefit tax wise is to certain members of the crew. Depending upon country tips are sometimes treated differently than wages for either income tax, retirement system taxes, or both. For employees from the US not so much.

[traceytd]

 

 

 

Lmao I agree....

 

 

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[SarcasmSpasm]

I love the assumptions that because someone removes auto-grat that they are cheap. You know what they say about assuming.........

 

As someone who's worked in the service industry, it's been my experience (not opinion or assumption) that those who brag about how much they tip and judge are less generous than others. I had a customer who was insanely boastful and wealthy and thought he was an amazing tipper. He was incredibly demanding. Never left more than 15%.

[Reds4life]

I love these posters who get fired up over the auto tips being removed lol. $58 per day for tips for my family of 4 is out of line with the customary 15-20% at restaurants in my area and even less for maid service in hotels. Clearly those of you that buy into that "standard" policy put out there by the cruise companies are very gullible. The rest of us are laughing at you for being fools and paying our share too.

I also like to see what level of service I am getting before tipping. Accountability encourages performance. There's no way this pay ahead system gets you better service than the old envelope system

[shellunderwater]

You think I'm a fool?

 

I think your calling others names destroys any semblence of any perceived authority you might have to judge others you dont know.

 

Fool? Go crawl back where ever you came from and find someone else to insult.

 

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[Expat Cruise]

I love these posters who get fired up over the auto tips being removed lol. $58 per day for tips for my family of 4 is out of line with the customary 15-20% at restaurants in my area and even less for maid service in hotels. Clearly those of you that buy into that "standard" policy put out there by the cruise companies are very gullible. The rest of us are laughing at you for being fools and paying our share too.

I also like to see what level of service I am getting before tipping. Accountability encourages performance. There's no way this pay ahead system gets you better service than the old envelope system

 

While I agree with you the current system is wrong and we as guest should remove and tip as we see fit to do. No one has the right to tell me how and where to spend discretionary funds.

 

But, I would ask you not to be to hard on the other side (Pro Auto Gratuities) as they have fallen victim to the PR of the cruise industry. It is never right to blame a victim, gets because these poor fellow cruise guests have fallen for this con shell game from management because they are victims.

 

We cannot and should not attack them or post negative towards them, for a couple of reasons: no personal attacks allowed on the site, and they are victims of a system designed to exploit these poor uninformed guests. Attacking them is wrong, feeling sorry for them is human.

[TADCruise]

My problem with prepaid gratuities is the cruise lines do not have any accountability for how the gratuities are distributed. I have heard that the crew not always get all of the gratuities. We typically prepay the gratuities for the sake of convenience but I have spoken with dining room wait staff and cabin attendants that they prefer to receive the gratuities directly. The cruise lines should be required by law to pay all of the gratuities to the crew.

 

 

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[Lfehlauer77]

I remember back when envelopes were delivered to your cabin usually on the second to last day of the cruise. Each envelope labeled with cabin steward, waiter, busboy etc. A suggested daily dollar amount was in your cruise compass. But it was up to you who and how much each received. You then personally gave them their tips and thanked them for their service. I'm sure auto grat is cheaper for the cruise line, saves on all those envelopes, but there's more personable interaction the old way. I've been told auto gratis will not be removed till the last day of the cruise. In my opinion that's their way of deterring people from doing it. Nobody wants to wait in those lines!

[firsttimer57]

I find some of the venom spat on this subject quite bizarre.

 

Tipping is a strange culture to people in many countries, particularly here in the UK, because ALL workers get paid a minimum Government set minimum living wage. In dollars this amounts to about $15 per hour.

 

So when we dine out and decide to tip good service, it truly is a tip / gratuity as this is on top of their earnings.

 

When we first visited the States about 20 years ago, we found the culture strange that people would work purely for tips,

 

The one person I really object to paying any tip for is the Head Waiter - he should be paid accordingly as a senior staff member by RCI.

 

The only time we have ever had an issue with gratuities on board was last year on a Med cruise.

 

We had taken our granddaughter with us (5 years old at the time) and was booked for My Time dining for a table of three for us. For three nights we endured simply the worst service ever. We then chose to dine in the buffet. Again the service was terrible, I have never seen so many dirty tables and plates not cleared away. In the end we spoke to the duty manager who explained they were experiencing quality issues as they had just had an influx of new staff and this was causing them issues. By the end of the cruise it hadn't improved (in fact it went down further) so we did reluctantly decide to ask for the refund of the grats for the Dining Service element as they had not earned the tip.

 

The reverse to this was our Cabin attendant who was the best we have ever had in nearly 20 cruises. He couldn't do enough for us and our little grand-daughter. We had already decided to give him something extra.

 

However when RCI removed the tips they removed them ALL. I asked them to ensure the Cabin Attendant still got his, but was told it was all or nothing.

 

Luckily we were able to put maters right with him on the last morning and paid him with cash.

 

For what it is worth, making it a Service Charge and including it in the cruise fare would sort out all this mess. If you wanted to treat a member of staff separately to this then it truly becomes a tip and not a SERVICE CHARGE.

 

Luckliyl we

[TCBFlash]

Maybe they remove them because they tip individuals in cash?

 

I certainly hope this is the case. Shame on anyone who would not tip the cabin stewards and dining room staff!

[BekkaW]

I love these posters who get fired up over the auto tips being removed lol. $58 per day for tips for my family of 4 is out of line with the customary 15-20% at restaurants in my area and even less for maid service in hotels. Clearly those of you that buy into that "standard" policy put out there by the cruise companies are very gullible. The rest of us are laughing at you for being fools and paying our share too.

I also like to see what level of service I am getting before tipping. Accountability encourages performance. There's no way this pay ahead system gets you better service than the old envelope system

 

All the posters asking why there’s an assumption that people who remove the auto gratuities don’t tip... this ^^ is exactly why.

[LMaxwell]

All the posters asking why there’s an assumption that people who remove the auto gratuities don’t tip... this ^^ is exactly why.

What am I missing here? Did you quote the right post?

[rtazz17]

I love how everybody is GUESSING at why they removed the gratuities. Nobody has the slightest idea and its not worth a thread. They couldve given each envelopes with a grand cash in each one. Enough guessing. Lots of opinions backed with zero facts.

[Biker19]

How about another guess - the number of days before this thread gets closed?

[Grandma Dazzles]

I love these posters who get fired up over the auto tips being removed lol. $58 per day for tips for my family of 4 is out of line with the customary 15-20% at restaurants in my area and even less for maid service in hotels.

 

Actually I think $14.50 per day for all services is pretty cheap. No way I could eat out three times a day and have my room cleaned, etc. for that amount where I live. If you figure $5 for maid services that leaves $9.50 for three meals. Went out for breakfast yesterday at a local restaurant and left a $3 tip. Personally don't consider the amount charged to be that out of line for three meals, not to mention any snacks along the way.

[GlennGlenn]

I love how everybody is GUESSING at why they removed the gratuities. Nobody has the slightest idea and its not worth a thread. They couldve given each envelopes with a grand cash in each one. Enough guessing. Lots of opinions backed with zero facts.

Exactly this^ ^ ^. Unless you're providing me with hard data, everything else is subjective, opinion and speculation.

 

There's numerous reason(s) why I request removal of tips, primary of which it is my business. Beyond that, we prefer to tip individually and in cash and Mano a Mano and without the use of envelopes. No cruise line involvement and no taxation from their respective taxing authorities. I've been told by wait staff and cabin attendants that they prefer my " old method" as it insures they get it and no one else. So yes, greed inures to them as well. We have also had cabin attendants remember us and literally run and hug us on later cruises because of our generosity. They've told us as well and thank us profusely.

 

Seems to me this whole " tipping" thing became an issue when they started more European cruises and routes since it's not a custom there as it is in US. That's fine, but don't paint with a broad brush because someone removes the " collective" tips as there's many ways to skin a cat, foremost of which is direct and gracious contact with their outstretched hand.

[ElaineKeagy]

While I agree with you the current system is wrong and we as guest should remove and tip as we see fit to do. No one has the right to tell me how and where to spend discretionary funds.

 

 

 

But, I would ask you not to be to hard on the other side (Pro Auto Gratuities) as they have fallen victim to the PR of the cruise industry. It is never right to blame a victim, gets because these poor fellow cruise guests have fallen for this con shell game from management because they are victims.

 

 

 

We cannot and should not attack them or post negative towards them, for a couple of reasons: no personal attacks allowed on the site, and they are victims of a system designed to exploit these poor uninformed guests. Attacking them is wrong, feeling sorry for them is human.

 

 

 

I just threw up in my mouth.

 

 

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[Love resorts and cruises]

If I go out to a restaurant and my service has been very good I'm going to leave 20% tip.

 

If the service was "meh"; we haven't been checked on, drinks run out, etc., I'm not going to talk to a manager. Doesn't really rise to the level of complaining about and having to do something. It's just not AS good as "very good" service. So in that case I'm going to leave a 15% tip.

 

And I think that's the way a vast majority of people do it as well. If a waitress disappears for 20 minutes and you run out of water most people aren't going to go seek out the manager, they'll just tip a little bit less.

 

Is there something wrong with that?

 

I agree with you. If a waitress disappears for 20 minutes, the manager is a poor manager!

[Lurch104]

I would have been that guy on my last cruise. Was booked for late dining. Took advantage of the BOGO specialty dining offer and spent first two nights away from MDR. I showed up the third night for dinner and come to find out that although I had both a table number and time on my sea pass card, I was in MTD...not happy. Spoke to the head waiter and Maitre D and they assured me they would fix it that evening. Ate MTD that night. Went to guest services to see if there was anything they could do. They also assured me I would be called in the AM with a resolution. No call the next morning as promised. Around 4 I went to guest services for status, they called and became visibly upset. Apparent;y, he said I could not be accomodated going into the 4th night. GS was very displeased that they did not call to inform me of this and said they would be included in her report. She was mortified. I then asked to remove tips for Maitre D and Head Waiter. I was told "all or nothing". So I removed all.

I immediately told my cabin steward and D lounge staff concierge what was going on ( always tip the D lounge servers a $2 bill each and every drink) and let them know I will again take care of them the last night as I also gave them all a nice tip when they introduced themselves the first time. I, of course, followed through. Ate specialty the rest of the cruise and tipped on the bill after our meals.

The moral is that you never know the whole story when eavesdropping at GS. I don't wish to toot my own horn, but I seriously doubt anyone would accuse me of being cheap or stiffing a service person on their tip.

[gerif]

I would have been that guy on my last cruise. Was booked for late dining. Took advantage of the BOGO specialty dining offer and spent first two nights away from MDR. I showed up the third night for dinner and come to find out that although I had both a table number and time on my sea pass card, I was in MTD...not happy. Spoke to the head waiter and Maitre D and they assured me they would fix it that evening. Ate MTD that night. Went to guest services to see if there was anything they could do. They also assured me I would be called in the AM with a resolution. No call the next morning as promised. Around 4 I went to guest services for status, they called and became visibly upset. Apparent;y, he said I could not be accomodated going into the 4th night. GS was very displeased that they did not call to inform me of this and said they would be included in her report. She was mortified. I then asked to remove tips for Maitre D and Head Waiter. I was told "all or nothing". So I removed all.

I immediately told my cabin steward and D lounge staff concierge what was going on ( always tip the D lounge servers a $2 bill each and every drink) and let them know I will again take care of them the last night as I also gave them all a nice tip when they introduced themselves the first time. I, of course, followed through. Ate specialty the rest of the cruise and tipped on the bill after our meals.

The moral is that you never know the whole story when eavesdropping at GS. I don't wish to toot my own horn, but I seriously doubt anyone would accuse me of being cheap or stiffing a service person on their tip.

The Maitre ‘d is NOT included in the tipping pool to begin with. The head waiter has nothing to do with your dining assignment. Also, the crew really hate those $2 bills. They often have trouble getting rid of them as vendors think they are not real.

[internetwhiz]

I think people who want to remove grats should fill out a form as to why they are removing them. But that’s just my thought.

[Lurch104]

The Maitre ‘d is NOT included in the tipping pool to begin with. The head waiter has nothing to do with your dining assignment. Also, the crew really hate those $2 bills. They often have trouble getting rid of them as vendors think they are not real.

 

Last time I took a cruise pre-auto tips, they were. The head waiter assured me he would correct the situation and contact me. He did neither. I could have understood that they screwed up and could not now accommodate me, but not responding to my inquiry is unacceptable. He also neglected to respond to guest services and the Diamond Concierge as they made inquiries as well. So, considering he did absolutely nothing for me, no tips for him.

 

Regarding the $2 bills, I am certain the bartenders appreciated them much more than the cheapskates who don't tip at all. I seriously doubt a crew member told you they hate getting a $2 bill over a $1 dollar tip (or nothing).

[PopeyeDaSailor]

One of the mass cruise lines (I wish RCL would try this) should take the lead (like the luxury lines already do) and have a ZERO gratuity policy when you book your cruise, the "gratuities" (which they are not, they are wages for the staff) would be already included into the cruise fare. All of us would be on an equal playing field... no one gets hurt, staff nor cruiser. Everyone would know what do to re tipping without the pages and pages, threads upon threads of posts here on CC. Any extra "tip" given on board would truly be an actual tip given to that individual just like you do on land.

 

Amen!