Service Reward Letter

[Expat Cruise]

What confuses me most on these threads is why some posters don't believe salaries should reflect living costs in their home countries.

If these crew members were to take up a UK land based contract, of course they would be paid more. They would have to pay UK prices to feed themselves, UK rent to house themselves, utilities, transport etc.

 

In reality they live on the ship for the duration of their contract and are not subject to the above costs. They then return home for a period and are subject to the cost of living in their home country - not the UK or USA.

 

.......

 

I know they work long and hard but that's would be quite a tidy sum for someone in the UK let alone in India or the Phillipines.

 

You are correct it is a lot of money in the home countries compared to what other workers make not on ships and the home country wages. Cruise ship are among the best place workers from third World Countries can find jobs. That is why 100's will apply for ma single job. And if the current workers leave tomorrow they will be replaced the next day.

 

My sister in law is a registered nurse here in the Philippines. Working in one of the best hospitals in Manila (Capital City). Her pay rate per month is 35,000 pesos ($675) she pays for her own food transport and housing. If she takes a two year contract in the UAE pay rate is 40,000 pesos, free shared room transport to work 10,000 pesos food Total ($965). But remember skilled licensed worker. If she takes a job on a cruise ships, even working back of the house not as a nurse about $650 dollars a month to start. Free housing and food, and 3 to 9 months away from her home and family.

 

Of these three choices the highest monthly pay is the cruise ship, after taking into account, food and lodging. So please don't tell me about underpaid crews on cruise ships compared to working in the Philippines, or as a OFW (Overseas Foreign Worker) The cruise ship is the best working condition, best pay, and best overall deal.

[Tom Baker]

& tax free earnings too. No national insurance, free medical care while on board.

 

 

I agree that they have limited living conditions, but constant access to hot and cold running water, electricity and a good support network. Free transport back to their place of origin and many return year after year.

 

 

P&O steward, wait and bar staff work a maximum of 76 hours a week.

[Selbourne]

.....and, of course, abandoning their families / partners / young children around the other side of the world for 9 months at a time is but a minor inconvenience. Funny how people only focus on the positive aspects and choose to ignore the things that none of us pontificating on this subject would tolerate ourselves.

[NoFlyGuy]

I am sure it is an inconvenience but why then do so many do it? They are not forced to apply to a cruise company for a job.

 

They do it, I presume, because it's lucrative and when they return home for good they can provide a far better standard of life for themselves and their families - build a nice house and open a business which is what I have been told by a few cabin stewards.

 

And of course some Brits work away for periods presumably for the same reason.

[Expat Cruise]

.....and, of course, abandoning their families / partners / young children around the other side of the world for 9 months at a time is but a minor inconvenience. Funny how people only focus on the positive aspects and choose to ignore the things that none of us pontificating on this subject would tolerate ourselves.

 

OK so what is better:

 

A) Ships Crew Contract 9 months

 

b) Average Philippines OFW Land based contract 24 months

 

The Philippines has about 2.2 million total OFW Workers. About 250,000 of these OFW are cruise or ships crews. So yes taking a job for 9 months on a crew ships is a minor inconvenience compared to the other choices. The average non cruise ship OFW spends 2 years away from home. Also a much lower chance of Human Trafficking taking a cruise ship job vs land based OFW.

 

Which brings us back to the Service Reward Letters, if guest really cared about workers they would tip directly to him so P & O cannot skim off the top.

[pete14]

You are correct it is a lot of money in the home countries compared to what other workers make not on ships and the home country wages. Cruise ship are among the best place workers from third World Countries can find jobs. That is why 100's will apply for ma single job. And if the current workers leave tomorrow they will be replaced the next day.

 

My sister in law is a registered nurse here in the Philippines. Working in one of the best hospitals in Manila (Capital City). Her pay rate per month is 35,000 pesos ($675) she pays for her own food transport and housing. If she takes a two year contract in the UAE pay rate is 40,000 pesos, free shared room transport to work 10,000 pesos food Total ($965). But remember skilled licensed worker. If she takes a job on a cruise ships, even working back of the house not as a nurse about $650 dollars a month to start. Free housing and food, and 3 to 9 months away from her home and family.

 

Of these three choices the highest monthly pay is the cruise ship, after taking into account, food and lodging. So please don't tell me about underpaid crews on cruise ships compared to working in the Philippines, or as a OFW (Overseas Foreign Worker) The cruise ship is the best working condition, best pay, and best overall deal.

 

Follow your thinking through. Do you think people with Indian or Philippines nationality who come to UK as nurses and doctors; business leaders of multi national businesses based in India and footballers and athletes from economically poorer countries such as Egypt, Kenya and Jamaica should be paid less than their colleagues and team mates when working in UK because their home countries are poorer than UK? Perhaps Norwegian nationals should be paid more than UK workers if based in UK because living costs are higher in Scandinavia? If cabin stewards and waiters are wealthy relative to other people in the country where they hold citizenship, so what?

 

The thought that we should pay them less than their work reasonably deserves because they come from a poor country in order to save a few quid on an onboard account saddens me. Some lack of wealth in some parts of the world is partly the fault of the more economically wealthy countries like UK. This is no different. I am not suggesting that reducing or removing auto gratuities as a money saving exercise is widespread but I am beginning to wonder. Only individuals who do this know - I am not pointing the finger at anybody here because I don’t have the evidence.

[daiB]

Follow your thinking through. Do you think people with Indian or Philippines nationality who come to UK as nurses and doctors; business leaders of multi national businesses based in India and footballers and athletes from economically poorer countries such as Egypt, Kenya and Jamaica should be paid less than their colleagues and team mates when working in UK because their home countries are poorer than UK? Perhaps Norwegian nationals should be paid more than UK workers if based in UK because living costs are higher in Scandinavia? If cabin stewards and waiters are wealthy relative to other people in the country where they hold citizenship, so what?

 

The thought that we should pay them less than their work reasonably deserves because they come from a poor country in order to save a few quid on an onboard account saddens me. Some lack of wealth in some parts of the world is partly the fault of the more economically wealthy countries like UK. This is no different. I am not suggesting that reducing or removing auto gratuities as a money saving exercise is widespread but I am beginning to wonder. Only individuals who do this know - I am not pointing the finger at anybody here because I don’t have the evidence.

It is clear from a number of posts that it is exactly that. Anyway possible to avoid paying. You post is spot on.

 

 

 

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[terrierjohn]

Follow your thinking through. Do you think people with Indian or Philippines nationality who come to UK as nurses and doctors; business leaders of multi national businesses based in India and footballers and athletes from economically poorer countries such as Egypt, Kenya and Jamaica should be paid less than their colleagues and team mates when working in UK because their home countries are poorer than UK? Perhaps Norwegian nationals should be paid more than UK workers if based in UK because living costs are higher in Scandinavia? If cabin stewards and waiters are wealthy relative to other people in the country where they hold citizenship, so what?

 

The thought that we should pay them less than their work reasonably deserves because they come from a poor country in order to save a few quid on an onboard account saddens me. Some lack of wealth in some parts of the world is partly the fault of the more economically wealthy countries like UK. This is no different. I am not suggesting that reducing or removing auto gratuities as a money saving exercise is widespread but I am beginning to wonder. Only individuals who do this know - I am not pointing the finger at anybody here because I don’t have the evidence.

But cruise ship employees are not domiciled in the UK so it is unrealistic to make that comparison.

As regards whether the AG is fair, I still believe that you need to calculate how much the cruise lines would collect if everyone paid it. This clearly shows that P&O would be paid way more than is needed to pay all the identified staff in full, not just their tips, which means that those still paying the AG are compensating P&O for those that do not, and that seriously irks me.

[Expat Cruise]

It is clear from a number of posts that it is exactly that. Anyway possible to avoid paying. You post is spot on.

 

 

 

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If that is the case and some guest remove these optional fees as a way to reduce the price or avoid paying that is their right. These are optional fees not required. While everyone has the right to a opinion here, members are free to do as they want.

 

Maybe some people do remove and pay nothing, some remove and pay cash, some pay more, some pay less, it is a gratuity and therefore up to each guest to handle as they believe is correct.

[grapau27]

It hasn't changed to another lines thread. But as I stated earlier, I will continue to provide a comparison of the charges other lines make regarding to gratuities/service to broaden the horizons of P&O cruisers who think they are being 'ripped off' by the line.

 

There are several people like me who sail on other lines as well as P&O so they may be interested. If you sail exclusively on P&O then my information lets you know that you are not that hard done to with regard the £7 pppd which most are complaining about.

I agree with you we are well positioned to give a wider picture.

We are D+ on Royal but have sailed 93 nights on P&O so can comment on both plus the thread is open to everyone although some might not like it.

 

 

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[NoFlyGuy]

daiB and pete14. Did you not bother to read my earlier post?

 

Here's a bit of it.

'If these crew members were to take up a UK land based contract, of course they would be paid more. They would have to pay UK prices to feed themselves, UK rent to house themselves, utilities, transport etc.'

 

So,yes, they should be paid the same as anyone else doing the same job with the same overheads when living and working in the UK.

 

But it's patently obvious that crew members do not live and work in the UK, they live on a ship travelling the globe, and as I stated, they are not subject to the same costs involved with a land based job.

 

If P&O or any other UK multinational company opened a call centre in the Philippines would you expect the staff there to be paid the same as an equivalent employee in Southampton, I certainly hope not.

One would expect the companies to pay what would be considered a decent wage in that particular country.

[grapau27]

I am not complaining about the amount - just the process and the lack of confidence that all the money reaches the staff. I am not paying a fixed charge to fill P&O's coffers if it ALL doesn't reach the people it is supposed to.

That's why I keep saying even if someone on here doesn't agree that a small service charge added to the cost for everyone to pay would be best and anything above would be a genuine tip in appreciation of excellent service.

 

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[grapau27]

You are correct it is a lot of money in the home countries compared to what other workers make not on ships and the home country wages. Cruise ship are among the best place workers from third World Countries can find jobs. That is why 100's will apply for ma single job. And if the current workers leave tomorrow they will be replaced the next day.

 

My sister in law is a registered nurse here in the Philippines. Working in one of the best hospitals in Manila (Capital City). Her pay rate per month is 35,000 pesos ($675) she pays for her own food transport and housing. If she takes a two year contract in the UAE pay rate is 40,000 pesos, free shared room transport to work 10,000 pesos food Total ($965). But remember skilled licensed worker. If she takes a job on a cruise ships, even working back of the house not as a nurse about $650 dollars a month to start. Free housing and food, and 3 to 9 months away from her home and family.

 

Of these three choices the highest monthly pay is the cruise ship, after taking into account, food and lodging. So please don't tell me about underpaid crews on cruise ships compared to working in the Philippines, or as a OFW (Overseas Foreign Worker) The cruise ship is the best working condition, best pay, and best overall deal.

Many crew members have told me after working a few years on a ship they are set up financially for life Back home.

 

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[grapau27]

.....and, of course, abandoning their families / partners / young children around the other side of the world for 9 months at a time is but a minor inconvenience. Funny how people only focus on the positive aspects and choose to ignore the things that none of us pontificating on this subject would tolerate ourselves.

I remember my late dad was a maintenance electrician in the shipyard's and he left home at 6.30am and sometimes didn't get home till midnight so he could earn enough to give us a good upbringing,and we rarely saw him either.

 

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[grapau27]

OK so what is better:

 

A) Ships Crew Contract 9 months

 

b) Average Philippines OFW Land based contract 24 months

 

The Philippines has about 2.2 million total OFW Workers. About 250,000 of these OFW are cruise or ships crews. So yes taking a job for 9 months on a crew ships is a minor inconvenience compared to the other choices. The average non cruise ship OFW spends 2 years away from home. Also a much lower chance of Human Trafficking taking a cruise ship job vs land based OFW.

 

Which brings us back to the Service Reward Letters, if guest really cared about workers they would tip directly to him so P & O cannot skim off the top.

Sounds a reasonable post to me.

 

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[grapau27]

It is clear from a number of posts that it is exactly that. Anyway possible to avoid paying. You post is spot on.

 

 

 

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+1 I agree.

 

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[AnOnymously]

daiB and pete14. Did you not bother to read my earlier post?

 

Here's a bit of it.

'If these crew members were to take up a UK land based contract, of course they would be paid more. They would have to pay UK prices to feed themselves, UK rent to house themselves, utilities, transport etc.'

 

So,yes, they should be paid the same as anyone else doing the same job with the same overheads when living and working in the UK.

 

But it's patently obvious that crew members do not live and work in the UK, they live on a ship travelling the globe, and as I stated, they are not subject to the same costs involved with a land based job.

 

If P&O or any other UK multinational company opened a call centre in the Philippines would you expect the staff there to be paid the same as an equivalent employee in Southampton, I certainly hope not.

One would expect the companies to pay what would be considered a decent wage in that particular country.

But the employee would be domiciled in that country and not domiciled on a rich cruise ship and being part of the rich living standards enjoyed by the cruise ship customers.

 

But back to that letter, no one seems to be able to tell us why PO are sending it, do you really believe that they are concerned that staff will get short wages or that PO will get shorter profits?

[Millers]

People who don’t get obc, and not everybody does, are subsidising those that that do get it. Those that don’t get obc pay their tips out of their own money, not money that has been given to them,by P & O

 

 

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[john watson]

It is clear from a number of posts that it is exactly that. Anyway possible to avoid paying. You post is spot on.

 

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I always keep the auto-gratuities on. I cannot face the Reception Desk telling them I want to remove them for any reason, I should feel bad about doing that. Why would anyone want to get in a big queue to do this on the penultimate day any way? There are loads down there then which I find absurd.

 

I am pretty certain all passengers have a file on them kept by cruise lines on passengers preferences etc. and they share this type of information among the brands.

 

Regards John

[jeanlyon]

There is no big queue at all. We removed our tips on Day 3 of an 18 night cruise. Simply asked Reception for a form regarding tips and it was given straight away. No problem at all. I certainly wouldn't wait until the last day. Why would I.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

Accidental Post Sorry.

 

 

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Edited May 17, 2018 by stephen@stoneyard.co.uk

[john watson]

There is no big queue at all. We removed our tips on Day 3 of an 18 night cruise. Simply asked Reception for a form regarding tips and it was given straight away. No problem at all. I certainly wouldn't wait until the last day. Why would I.

 

I think a lot of people believe they are regarded as paying throughout the cruise and treated accordingly then recoup the money late on. Prior to auto-gratuities people used to go to the buffet last day and MDR was deserted.

 

Regards John

[P-L-B]

There is no big queue at all. We removed our tips on Day 3 of an 18 night cruise. Simply asked Reception for a form regarding tips and it was given straight away. No problem at all. I certainly wouldn't wait until the last day. Why would I.

Agreed Jean, that's been our experience and that's what we do.

[john watson]

 

Don't hold out any hope but here goes - 'Do you think an office worker in the Philippines should receive the same pay as a worker in the UK for the same job?'

 

An office worker in the Philippines should earn less than in the UK. If you went to the Philippines and got an office job you would earn less. Your housing costs would be less in that country but it will work out that your lifestyle would end up similar to a local and standard of living would be closer than people imagine. People from all over the world go to first world countries to earn more and send it back to their families back home. A ship is a halfway house, neither in UK or Philippines, therefore they pay less than in UK more than Philippines. If they paid as much as in UK the cruise line would go out of business in favour of competitors offering lower fares. If cruise lines paid less than Philippines they would not get staff and the cruise line would go out of business by intolerant passengers booking up their next cruise with a line that has staff.

 

Regards John

Edited May 17, 2018 by john watson

[picsa]

Yes, I don;t have a problem with tipping, just the way it is charged and will continue to do it my way.

 

I don't have a problem with tipping, but you have to have delivered exceptional service to get one.

 

As for optional service charges which disappear into a black hole... you have to be having a laugh if someone thinks I am falling for that.