Service Reward Letter

[suekay]

I was fully intending to pay AG’s on my cruise next month until I read the thread from an insider (now removed) detailing exactly how P&O distributed (or not) them. I can’t say anything else about it or this post will be removed as well, but suffice to know that I was so appalled and disturbed that I’ve now decided to remove AG’s and pay the equivalent, or more, tips in cash directly to those who deserve it.

That's exactly how we feel, and exactly what we did on Oceana this week. It's the first time in 35+ cruises we have removed the auto gratuities, and I felt bad approaching reception, but the receptionist just produced a form from under the counter and I wrote a long explanation as to why we would be paying in cash. I must admit it was a nuisance having to remember to take cash every evening as we were on freedom dining, but we finished up paying slightly more over the week than the recommended £7pp each day. We didn't receive any letter asking us to reconsider our decision

 

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[Expat Cruise]

Happy to see move and more people removing the daily service fee here. Yes it is clear to any one that takes the time to do research these fees are for the benefit of the cruise line.

 

If someone is really interested in the crew they should tip them directly as they feel is correct. $50 dollars to your cabin steward goes to the cabin steward, not to the cruise line to cut skimmed and give to others because they want to underpay the crews.

 

Also happy that those here who are pro auto daily service fees seem to be seeing the tides turn.

[terrierjohn]

How deluded can you be most people stop commenting because of all the false information being spouted by certain people. On other forums the long post was mainly dismissed as made up.

 

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I am still amazed that you have not done a few little calculations to realise that you are paying more than double the amount needed to pay the designated staff their bonus. Even you must recognise that this can only be to compensate for those not paying anything, and that as long as you pay up P&O have no incentive to change the system.

[Expat Cruise]

I am still amazed that you have not done a few little calculations to realise that you are paying more than double the amount needed to pay the designated staff their bonus. Even you must recognise that this can only be to compensate for those not paying anything, and that as long as you pay up P&O have no incentive to change the system.

 

Sorry but you are stating facts, for may here facts seem to not matter. Just what the believe to be true. It is clear to anyone that runs basic number the cruise lines take in much more than the are paying out to the claimed staff members. If they really transferred all the time money a cabin steward would be making more than most officers on the ship.

 

Reminds me of the people who say they like to get a big tax refund.... Great let the government hold your money interest free and think it is a benefit.

[daiB]

Sorry but you are stating facts, for may here facts seem to not matter. Just what the believe to be true. It is clear to anyone that runs basic number the cruise lines take in much more than the are paying out to the claimed staff members. If they really transferred all the time money a cabin steward would be making more than most officers on the ship.

 

 

 

Reminds me of the people who say they like to get a big tax refund.... Great let the government hold your money interest free and think it is a benefit.

 

 

 

Sorry but not facts have been quoted. Only your or Johns calculations. They are not facts.

 

By saying it over and over again does not make them facts.

 

 

 

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[jeanlyon]

Dai agree. While autograts are not compulsory or part of the fare, I shall continue to do it my way and remove. I have no interest in what P&O does with the money it takes in auto grats.

[picsa]

Sorry but not facts have been quoted. Only your or Johns calculations. They are not facts.

 

By saying it over and over again does not make them facts.

 

The only fact that matters to me is the AGs are optional so I can opt out of paying them. The rest I don't care about.

[terrierjohn]

Since the earlier calculation of how much P&O collect from auto grats died with the lost thread I thought I should resurrect it for the few remaining doubters.

If we assume that each steward looks after 18 cabins and they receive 40% of the auto tip, which I believe is what was advised before auto grats, then full auto grats would result in each stewards bonus being nearly £37000pa, and this element of his wage is only supposed to be a tip.:confused:

The calculation is £14 per cabin per day, multiplied by 40%, equals £100.80 per day, which equates to £36792pa. Now I am no maths genius but if there are any errors in the above then I am happy to be proved wrong.

I certainly do not want to deprive staff of a fair tip, but unless I have made a major error then there are some pertinent questions that P&O need to answer, but they will remain tight lipped just as long as long as the money keeps rolling in.

I am not claiming that P&O are doing anything wrong, clearly staff wages have to be paid for out of revenue, and this comes from us the customers, and one way or another we will end up paying. What I do object to is that those still paying the auto grats do appear to be paying more than their fair share. :(

[Selbourne]

Since the earlier calculation of how much P&O collect from auto grats died with the lost thread I thought I should resurrect it for the few remaining doubters.

If we assume that each steward looks after 18 cabins and they receive 40% of the auto tip, which I believe is what was advised before auto grats, then full auto grats would result in each stewards bonus being nearly £37000pa, and this element of his wage is only supposed to be a tip.:confused:

The calculation is £14 per cabin per day, multiplied by 40%, equals £100.80 per day, which equates to £36792pa. Now I am no maths genius but if there are any errors in the above then I am happy to be proved wrong.

I certainly do not want to deprive staff of a fair tip, but unless I have made a major error then there are some pertinent questions that P&O need to answer, but they will remain tight lipped just as long as long as the money keeps rolling in.

I am not claiming that P&O are doing anything wrong, clearly staff wages have to be paid for out of revenue, and this comes from us the customers, and one way or another we will end up paying. What I do object to is that those still paying the auto grats do appear to be paying more than their fair share. :(

 

I follow the maths John, but there are two potential flaws in the calculation. Firstly, we do not know as fact that the CS gets 40% of the service charge. Seems a bit high to me, given that the service charge is supposed to cover all waiters and assistant waiters as well as some others.

 

Secondly, we are hearing reports that as many as 70% of passengers are removing the service charge and, human nature being as it is, not all passengers doing this will tip in cash to the same level (aside from everyone who posts on this forum ;)).

 

I have no idea what a CS earns in total, but know that, whichever method is used, they earn a hell of a lot less than many of us and work much longer hours than we do, performing a physically demanding job. I just hope that, regardless of whether people leave the service charge on or tip in cash, they won’t be adversely affected by P&O’s ever changing policies and the resultant changes in passenger behaviour.

[marylizcat]

I think your sums are assuming they work 365 days per year, which they do not. I think they work several months on, several months off, so the pay and tips have to cover the periods when they are not working.

 

 

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[Selbourne]

I think your sums are assuming they work 365 days per year, which they do not. I think they work several months on, several months off, so the pay and tips have to cover the periods when they are not working.

 

 

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You are correct. They work 9 month contracts with 3 months off. The 3 months off are unpaid, so they receive no holiday pay. They also have no days off during the 9 months and just one shift (2.5 hours) off per week to go ashore. This equates to a 67.5 hour working week.

[wowzz]

I think your sums are assuming they work 365 days per year, which they do not. I think they work several months on, several months off, so the pay and tips have to cover the periods when they are not working.

 

 

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Our last steward worked for 10 consecutive months.

 

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[terrierjohn]

Selbourne, marylizcat, yes you raise some valid points, the new contracts seem to be 10 months so the tips are only worth £32000 pa.

 

The 40% is from memory when the recommended tip was £3.10 pppd, I think it was £1.25 to the steward and £1.85 between the waiter and his assistant.

 

The 70% removing tips may well be correct and the way P&O have described how they handle cash tips could mean that many of the staff are receiving the full tip in cash, plus their share of the bonus from the auto gratuity, and the reducing numbers paying the AG are facing continued increases to offset the reduction in the AG pot.

 

As I have said before, I do not want to see the hard working staff suffer any reduction in wages, but neither do I think the way P&O currently describe their handling of the AG is fair to all passengers. Which is why I will seriously consider removing the AG on our next cruise and explaining that I will continue with this approach until P&O incorporate gratuities into the cruise fare, making it fair to all passengers.

[Expat Cruise]

Do will really need to go over the laws of supply and demand? For every crew member working on these ships today 20 more are ready willing and able to take those jobs. Many more workers than jobs, so why should the Cruise Lines or guest need to pay more when more than enough workers to do the jobs.

 

The truth is the lines do not care about low level labor, they do care about the about daily gratuities charges which generate millions in added profit. I will keep tipping the workers I want tipped in cash and always remove these fake charges from every cruise.

[ccc666]

Filipino Crew members have option of either 6 months or 10 month contracts but can be extended to max 11 months

Indian crew have option of either 6 months or 9 months contracts but can extend to max 10 months

Please note Officers have even lesser duration contracts depending on rank

All the information provided by me is correct. The name of the document is "Salary & Payment Bonus Scheme - Restaurant & Accommodation Crew". Its a 20 page document which explains the salary structure.

 

For those who think its made up, its your own choice but please show it to your cabin steward/ waiter and verify on your next cruise.Only basic pay is calculated at $1.35 per GBP. Rest Bonus is at $1.3188 per GBP.

[ccc666]

You are correct. They work 9 month contracts with 3 months off. The 3 months off are unpaid, so they receive no holiday pay. They also have no days off during the 9 months and just one shift (2.5 hours) off per week to go ashore. This equates to a 67.5 hour working week.

 

The working week is 70 hrs per week for Indians restaurant/ CS crew and 77 Hours/Week for Filipino restaurant/CS but most work on average 10 Hours a day. Vacation is unpaid, thats true. Yes no days off during a contract. One lunch off yes 2.5 hrs but not every week, it comes in rotation according to a rota. Mostly once every month on an average.

 

 

In addition to the normal work on Turnaround days the Restaurant Staff are doing Storing in the stores plus Delivering your Bags to the Cabin

[ccc666]

Since the earlier calculation of how much P&O collect from auto grats died with the lost thread I thought I should resurrect it for the few remaining doubters.

If we assume that each steward looks after 18 cabins and they receive 40% of the auto tip, which I believe is what was advised before auto grats, then full auto grats would result in each stewards bonus being nearly £37000pa, and this element of his wage is only supposed to be a tip.:confused:

The calculation is £14 per cabin per day, multiplied by 40%, equals £100.80 per day, which equates to £36792pa. Now I am no maths genius but if there are any errors in the above then I am happy to be proved wrong.

I certainly do not want to deprive staff of a fair tip, but unless I have made a major error then there are some pertinent questions that P&O need to answer, but they will remain tight lipped just as long as long as the money keeps rolling in.

I am not claiming that P&O are doing anything wrong, clearly staff wages have to be paid for out of revenue, and this comes from us the customers, and one way or another we will end up paying. What I do object to is that those still paying the auto grats do appear to be paying more than their fair share. :(

 

This is not how we get our salary sir. Has anyone wondered why so many crew are leaving P&O. Surely if the money was good why leave. Even $1000 is a lot of money I agree but its for 300 hours in a month not for 160 hours. Yes we get free food and accommodation. But the quality of food? Working on a cruise ship is different than any land based Job. But yes we chose to work there because the money is good for the hard work we put in

[ccc666]

Sorry but not facts have been quoted. Only your or Johns calculations. They are not facts.

 

By saying it over and over again does not make them facts.

 

I heard about The Flat Earth Society. Everybody knows the shape of the Earth. So Some people just want to believe their own made up nonsense and say that others are wrong or fake

[ccc666]

P&O Itenary is mostly around Europe with Southampton being the turnaround Port. So when Crew go shopping in Asda we still pay UK prices, we dont get a discount. When we sit in a cafe on our lunch off we still Pay Spanish Prices with the VAT.

 

All the information provided by me is correct. The name of the document is "Salary & Bonus Payment Scheme - Restaurant & Accommodation Crew". Its a 20 page document which explains the salary structure.

Edited May 21, 2018 by ccc666

[pisces14]

P&O Itenary is mostly around Europe with Southampton being the turnaround Port. So when Crew go shopping in Asda we still pay UK prices, we dont get a discount. When we sit in a cafe on our lunch off we still Pay Spanish Prices with the VAT.

 

All the information provided by me is correct. The name of the document is "Salary & Bonus Payment Scheme - Restaurant & Accommodation Crew". Its a 20 page document which explains the salary structure.

 

As someone who would like the staff to receive what is due for their hard work. What method of payment do you suggest. You have already said that the current clientele are not inclined to tip. So if the Auto gratuities haven't solved that what do you suggest?

[jeanlyon]

As the waiter on Oriana on our last cruise was in his 26th year, and some of the others we talked to had done over 10 years, I guess they think it's worthwhile!

[ccc666]

As the waiter on Oriana on our last cruise was in his 26th year, and some of the others we talked to had done over 10 years, I guess they think it's worthwhile!

 

As i said even $1000 is still good money for the hard work. As for old crew no other cruiseline will take them thats why they have to stick to P&O. Its difficult to find jobs at that age at least in India/Philllipines

[davecttr]

In which case, we are in complete agreement. Whilst I would never begrudge the hard working staff earning well over £30k a year for a 70 hr a week job, I have always been under the impression that they earn far less. I am living in hope that with more and more passengers opting out, P&O will be forced to abolish the service charges, increase staff pay and put up cruise prices so that all passengers pay equally for this. Of course, the best benefit would be the end to all these repetitive tipping threads! ;);)

 

 

 

 

hallelujah

[kalos]

The only fact that matters to me is the AGs are optional so I can opt out of paying them. The rest I don't care about.

 

 

Please dont confuse . We dont get a share from the Service Charge you pay. It is used by P&O to give the bonus & pay for the crew

 

 

I can confirm on RCCL they can earn $3000 a month

 

Looks like Jean and a few others probably have had the right method all along .

 

How this would work if you are using the buffet often .. they would loose out on the cash tips ?:confused:

[grapau27]

hallelujah

+1 agreed.

 

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