No plans to return to Europe?

[tidecat]

At least that’s the plan per Christine Duffy in this Miami Herald article:

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/living/travel/article213850534.html

 

Panorama is sailing without passengers via the Pacific Ocean (and presumably the Suez Canal). The first XL ship is due in August 2020 and the second XL ship is due in October 2022.

 

I’m hoping Carnival will reconsider for 2020, simply because the first XL ship would be debuting right at the peak of the Atlantic Hurricane season.

 

 

Sent from my eye phone using a three legged yak FFS

[winddawn]

Good article. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed the "Carnival culture clash" discussion--especially the one about the purpose of the adults-only Serenity area where Russian passengers thought that meant clothing-optional and subsequently got nekked! Lol. Funny stuff.

 

I wonder if the strong U.S. dollar and higher fuel prices factored into Carnival's decision to avoid Europe for the foreseeable future.

[evandbob]

Good article. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed the "Carnival culture clash" discussion--especially the one about the purpose of the adults-only Serenity area where Russian passengers thought that meant clothing-optional and subsequently got nekked! Lol. Funny stuff.

 

I wonder if the strong U.S. dollar and higher fuel prices factored into Carnival's decision to avoid Europe for the foreseeable future.

 

 

Might be the lack of fueling stations - Liquid natural gas (LNG) propelled, not diesel.

[Palmetto Pilot]

Carnivals other brands have Europe covered as well.

[Out of Iowa]

Sky-high airfare to Europe quickly takes away the allure of a well-priced cruise on Carnival. Loved Barcelona, however, and so glad we did it!

[elcuchio24]

Sky-high airfare to Europe quickly takes away the allure of a well-priced cruise on Carnival. Loved Barcelona, however, and so glad we did it!

 

Barcelona/UK/occasionally Rome still pretty cheap flight from the east coast.

[elcuchio24]

Carnivals other brands have Europe covered as well.

 

And in all reality I think NCL has better/more diverse itins as well as being very cost effective. Same goes for MSC, although with a more euro vibe

[AD5ZA]

Good article. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed the "Carnival culture clash" discussion--especially the one about the purpose of the adults-only Serenity area where Russian passengers thought that meant clothing-optional and subsequently got nekked! Lol. Funny stuff.

 

 

 

 

At one time, Carnival's adults only areas were 'clothing optional '.

 

Ahhhh, those were the days.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[DukeASUGirl]

That makes me sad. Why would they have Panorama sail passenger-less rather than doing a repositioning cruise?

[elcuchio24]

That makes me sad. Why would they have Panorama sail passenger-less rather than doing a repositioning cruise?

 

My guess is they would be finishing interior stuff as they sail? but who knows thats still a ways off so they may have passengers after all

[cdm289]

That makes me sad. Why would they have Panorama sail passenger-less rather than doing a repositioning cruise?

 

I believe John Heald said on Facebook (don't quote me on this as my memory is sometimes spotty) that it will take over 21 days to get the Panorama from the shipyard to Long Beach and it would take many more days to stop at ports if passengers were on. I think it is a timing thing as before the Carnival Miracle was announced, there was a gap in offering of 7 day cruises from Long Beach due to the Splendor leaving after September.

 

Someone else mentioned on another thing I read that the waters are not safe around Cape Horn but I didn't believe that as there are many other lines that cruise that area often but maybe not at that time of the year as it would be winter and perhaps terrible weather.

 

Perhaps when the Splendor went around that way 5+ years ago, there were issues and they don't want to go through the hassle again.

 

 

Anyway, there must be a good reason as they would be losing money sailing empty. Although they probably wouldn't sail will full staff.

[chengkp75]

Ship will be nowhere near Cape Horn, she will go via Suez canal, so neither southern cape.

 

And most likely will sail with full crew for training.

[BlerkOne]

Good article. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed the "Carnival culture clash" discussion--especially the one about the purpose of the adults-only Serenity area where Russian passengers thought that meant clothing-optional and subsequently got nekked! Lol. Funny stuff.

 

I wonder if the strong U.S. dollar and higher fuel prices factored into Carnival's decision to avoid Europe for the foreseeable future.

 

The US dollar is not particularly strong and while recently higher, still not particularly high fuel prices.

[BlerkOne]

At one time, Carnival's adults only areas were 'clothing optional '.

 

Ahhhh, those were the days.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Only topless, I believe, and my eyes are still damaged from that.

[BlerkOne]

At least that’s the plan per Christine Duffy in this Miami Herald article:

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/living/travel/article213850534.html

 

Panorama is sailing without passengers via the Pacific Ocean (and presumably the Suez Canal). The first XL ship is due in August 2020 and the second XL ship is due in October 2022.

 

I’m hoping Carnival will reconsider for 2020, simply because the first XL ship would be debuting right at the peak of the Atlantic Hurricane season.

 

 

Sent from my eye phone using a three legged yak FFS

 

I read what the article says, but is there anything official from Carnival that says the ship will take the Suez route? As in a press release or other official company communication?

 

My understand was XL will launch in the Spring unless they slipped the schedule. Is there anything official on that?

[xDisconnections]

There are better options for Europe.

[BlerkOne]

Ship will be nowhere near Cape Horn, she will go via Suez canal, so neither southern cape.

 

And most likely will sail with full crew for training.

 

If straight from the shipyard into service, likely half a ship load of technicians debugging and fixing. Perhaps a port stop or two for replacement parts.

[chengkp75]

I read what the article says, but is there anything official from Carnival that says the ship will take the Suez route? As in a press release or other official company communication?

 

My understand was XL will launch in the Spring unless they slipped the schedule. Is there anything official on that?

 

Well, I looked at it, and I can't say whether Panorama is too high for the Bridge of the Americas, but she would fit in the new locks. If Panama is doable, she would go that way, and save 5000 miles. Good Hope is almost 20,000 miles. Suez and Cape Horn are both about 14,000 miles, so these are the preferred routes, and the Suez route keeps the ship closer to refueling ports, and better weather than Horn (which could slow the ship), even with the Canal tariff.

[cbowls30]

This is such a shame, we cruised Vista when she was in Europe, our first carnival experience, as was the case for many fellow Europeans. We loved it. We've cruised Europe many times, on other 'carnival brands' and they are SO different from carnival ships in every way! We've cruised other lines in the med, but we gotta say we enjoyed Vista the most! I understand that carnival doesn't even market themselves in Europe, definitely not in the U.K., most U.K. cruises have never heard of them, maybe if they did they would do very well over here! Very annoying.....

[BlerkOne]

Well, I looked at it, and I can't say whether Panorama is too high for the Bridge of the Americas, but she would fit in the new locks. If Panama is doable, she would go that way, and save 5000 miles. Good Hope is almost 20,000 miles. Suez and Cape Horn are both about 14,000 miles, so these are the preferred routes, and the Suez route keeps the ship closer to refueling ports, and better weather than Horn (which could slow the ship), even with the Canal tariff.

 

I suspect it is the Bridge. Carnival has experience with going around Cape Horn, but they don't really have to go around Cape Horn and could take a more inside route. Refueling could be a concern, but we are still 2 years out.

 

By crossing the Atlantic they could stop in Miami (and/or New York) for a dog and pony show, and the Bahamas if a shipyard experienced with Carnival was needed. Perhaps pick up US travel agents and/or Carnival employees along the way and still have a non-rev cruise.

 

Political stability of the Suez region can be a concern.

[TomCruise48]

Here is a reply that I posted several months ago on another thread as to why I believed that Carnival was no longer offering Mediterranean cruises:

Carnival's revenue model is tailored to US cruisers from US ports. They have positioned their ships so that they are within one day driving distance of a large amount of the US population. Money saved on getting to port means more money to spend onboard. Carnival's model is to generally offer a cruise fare lower than their competitors, and make their profit on onboard spending from such things as shore excursions, drinks, gift shops, spa, and casino. Carnival has become more focused on families, which are more likely to be first time cruisers and likely to spend more onboard than frequent cruisers.

 

This model does not work well in Europe. High airfares prevent many of the US families who would drive to a US port from flying to Europe. The European cruises draw many Europeans - surprise, surprise. The European cruisers are looking for a different experience. Many have already visited the ports, or could easily do so in the future, so Europeans are less likely to spend for shore excursions. The Europeans are making the ship itself their destination. EU law prevents cruise ships from prohibiting passengers from bringing alcohol onboard. In Europe you can bring alcohol onboard from every port, thus there is less revenue from alcoholic drinks. I'm not sure about casino revenue and whether Europeans are as likely to gamble as Americans. In Europe, the ships are in port longer, and there are few sea days, so the casino is not open as many hours per day as it would be on a typical Caribbean cruise.

 

Another issue that cropped up a couple of years ago is that when ships stopped going to Turkey, there were only EU ports on the itinerary, and value added taxes as high as 21% were applied to all onboard sales. Needless to say, this cut down on onboard purchases, especially from Americans not used to these taxes.

 

We were on the Vista when the Horizon's itineraries were first announced. We were told by a senior officer on the Vista that the Horizon was doing a shortened Mediterranean season since the Vista lost money on every one of its European cruises.

 

As other posters have mentioned, Carnival Corporation sails in Europe with other brands (and different revenue models). It would be great for us frequent Carnival cruisers if Carnival would share their loyalty programs among brands, but that's a topic for a different thread.

[BlerkOne]

Why Carnival is not particularly interested in Europe is because Americans proved to be too fickle. A little terrorism here and there (not like it doesn't happen in the US), and Americans cancelled Med cruises right and left. VAT was only a small factor. Because of that, Carnival was left desperately seeking cruisers. Luckily a number of cruisers from the UK picked up some of the slack and the season was not a total disaster. Carnival didn't want a repeat, so Horizon was brought over after just a few cruises.

 

 

The long shore excursions in Europe are more expensive, so more profitable for cruise lines, and being land based, already have VAT built-in.

 

 

 

I am not convinced that it is a law that Carnival cannot stop people from bringing alcohol onto the ship in Europe. I would like to see a link to a credible source on that. In years gone by they would occasionally set up a table and yes, confiscate and hold alcohol being brought back on the ship. I don't recall which Med port it was.

 

 

 

There are non-EU ports Carnival could utilize, if desired. Montenegro is one. And, of course, there is much speculation on the future of the EU. A breakup of the EU could lead to all kinds of nastiness.

[tidecat]

I read what the article says, but is there anything official from Carnival that says the ship will take the Suez route? As in a press release or other official company communication?

 

 

 

My understand was XL will launch in the Spring unless they slipped the schedule. Is there anything official on that?

 

 

Nothing official on the Suez route, but as someone pointed out it’s considerably shorter than going around Africa, and a relative push compared to going around South America.

 

I’ve actually never seen anything saying XL would have a Spring 2020 launch aside from guesses on here (and it certainly was a reasonable guess). It’s hard to get any more official than Carnival’s filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission (see page 10):

 

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/815097/000081509717000001/a2016form10-kfrontpart.htm#s45137C5EE04258668B2F4B1CCC0CABF0

 

 

Sent from my eye phone using a three legged yak FFS

[BlerkOne]

I’ve actually never seen anything saying XL would have a Spring 2020 launch aside from guesses on here (and it certainly was a reasonable guess).

 

AlI I am basing it on is the Hotel Director told me (and others) Spring 2020. Doesn't mean the schedule can't slip.

 

 

Of course, he also thought it would be doing some European cruises and that Carnival was currently trying to decide on itineraries (wherever it cruises).

[maryann2]

Another rumour we heard while on the Horizon is that the Panorama has to put the lifeboats on deck to sail through the Panama Canal. Too wide otherwise.