Cruising after Brexit.

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, dorsetlad said:

Oh dear. It seems "We're all doomed".😨😨😨😨

Maybe not doomed, but it’s not looking good if we end up with a no deal Brexit.  Which is presumably why the government’s planning to advise people not to book travel abroad after 29 March.

 

I can live, I suppose, with long delays getting back to Southampton, but the prospect of delays at each port visited does concern me.

 

I’m also unhappy at the prospect of 20% VAT having to be charged on everything bought on the cruises - on the ship and in ports.

[terrierjohn]

36 minutes ago, docco said:

Maybe not doomed, but it’s not looking good if we end up with a no deal Brexit.  Which is presumably why the government’s planning to advise people not to book travel abroad after 29 March.

 

I can live, I suppose, with long delays getting back to Southampton, but the prospect of delays at each port visited does concern me.

 

I’m also unhappy at the prospect of 20% VAT having to be charged on everything bought on the cruises - on the ship and in ports.

Has this been suggested as a possibility by Govt?

Surely once out of the EU it will be up to the UK to decide how to tax cruise ships, I imagine that HMRC would love to increase their revenue but it would be so unpopular its really a non starter, the tax applied by Spain to in port purchases might be extended to other EU countries, so we will just have to restrict our spending to when we are at sea.

[comcox]

On 9/7/2018 at 5:09 AM, Britboys said:

Not really sure that Passport checks will be necessary. When you think about it, there are already many Non-EU countries where Passports of cruise pax are not checked. The rules of landing by sea somehow seem to be different to flying. My Passport is (nearly) always checked when I fly to Spain for instance but not when I land in a Spanish sea-port.

As an American, when I sailed Fred Olsen in October the front desk kept my passport and I was required to retrieve it each morning to carry ashore in EU ports and then return it again when I came back on board.  It was really a hassle, but they claimed port security required that all non-EU passports had to be hand checked by local immigration.  

Edited December 17, 2018 by comcox

[Rupert2251]

The following has been taken from the bbc news website...

Travel freely

Last week it was confirmed that while UK travellers will not need a visa to visit the EU, Britons will need to apply for and buy another document to travel to member states, post-Brexit.

The document - which costs €7 (£6.30) and is valid for three years - is called an ETIAS (European Travel Information and Authorisation System) and although not launched yet, is expected to come into force in 2021. 

The travel requirement is not just for the UK but for many non-EU countries.

Under the Brexit deal, EU citizens and UK nationals will continue to be able to travel freely with a passport or identity card until the end of the transition period in 2020.

After this period ends, the European Commission has offered visa-free travel for UK nationals coming to the EU for a short stay, as long as the UK offers the same in return.

But although they do not need a visa, UK nationals will need the ETIAS - deal or no deal.

 

 

I think personally that a lot of people are worrying over nothing. The cruise lines might add an extra box onto the personal details page where you can input your ETIAS information the same as you do now for passports etc. I don't think for 1 minute that there would be long queues at each port visited, can you imagine the time involved in that? As for don't book a holiday after March 2019 that is just ridiculous!

[Harry Peterson]

28 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Has this been suggested as a possibility by Govt?

Surely once out of the EU it will be up to the UK to decide how to tax cruise ships, I imagine that HMRC would love to increase their revenue but it would be so unpopular its really a non starter, the tax applied by Spain to in port purchases might be extended to other EU countries, so we will just have to restrict our spending to when we are at sea.

Not a possibility - just the hard fact of not being in the EU any longer.  There are some exemptions though:

 

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/arrivals-from-outside-the-eu

[Eglesbrech]

11 minutes ago, comcox said:

As an American, when I sailed Fred Olsen in October the front desk kept my passport and I was required to retrieve it each morning to carry ashore in EU ports and then return it again when I came back on board.  It was really a hassle, but they claimed port security required that all non-EU passports had to be hand checked by local immigration.  

 

I had the same experience on the only cruise I took out of a US port. On the last day we were required to attend immigration at 5am as “aliens”. We have never taken a cruise from the US again as it was such a hassle. I’m sorry to hear that you had the same issues traveling in Europe.

 

I do wish that all countries would be more accommodating and welcoming to tourists rather than making them jump through hoops as you and I have had to do.

 

I am hopeful that it will be business as usual when cruising to Europe however the concern is that no one seems able to give any definitive answers. If we end up having to do what you had to then the queues would be miles long at reception!

 

 

[Harry Peterson]

9 minutes ago, Rupert2251 said:

The following has been taken from the bbc news website...

Travel freely

Last week it was confirmed that while UK travellers will not need a visa to visit the EU, Britons will need to apply for and buy another document to travel to member states, post-Brexit.

The document - which costs €7 (£6.30) and is valid for three years - is called an ETIAS (European Travel Information and Authorisation System) and although not launched yet, is expected to come into force in 2021. 

The travel requirement is not just for the UK but for many non-EU countries.

Under the Brexit deal, EU citizens and UK nationals will continue to be able to travel freely with a passport or identity card until the end of the transition period in 2020.

After this period ends, the European Commission has offered visa-free travel for UK nationals coming to the EU for a short stay, as long as the UK offers the same in return.

But although they do not need a visa, UK nationals will need the ETIAS - deal or no deal.

 

 

I think personally that a lot of people are worrying over nothing. The cruise lines might add an extra box onto the personal details page where you can input your ETIAS information the same as you do now for passports etc. I don't think for 1 minute that there would be long queues at each port visited, can you imagine the time involved in that? As for don't book a holiday after March 2019 that is just ridiculous!

Let's just be clear on this - there is at the moment no Brexit deal, and a grave prospect of not getting one.  The thrust of all this is the impact on cruising of no deal.  Yes, long queues at ports visited would be appalling, but that's the prospect we're now facing.

[dorsetlad]

Of course, once we leave the EU, together with our vast annual contributions, EU countries won't want us to visit and spend our money in their countries. They will therefore make it as difficult as possible to spend our hard earnt money there. If you honestly believe that, I'm afraid we really are all doomed.😤😤

 

[Harry Peterson]

5 minutes ago, dorsetlad said:

Of course, once we leave the EU, together with our vast annual contributions, EU countries won't want us to visit and spend our money in their countries. They will therefore make it as difficult as possible to spend our hard earnt money there. If you honestly believe that, I'm afraid we really are all doomed.😤😤

 

I'm afraid you've made the mistake of believing all the misinformation spread by Johnson and Co.  A bit of cruise ship spending isn't going to enable immigration laws to be changed for British citizens, who will simply be non-EU citizens from 29 March.

 

Britain isn't as important as certain people like to think it is, and Europe is far more important to Britain than Britain is to Europe.

[Eglesbrech]

9 minutes ago, dorsetlad said:

Of course, once we leave the EU, together with our vast annual contributions, EU countries won't want us to visit and spend our money in their countries. They will therefore make it as difficult as possible to spend our hard earnt money there. If you honestly believe that, I'm afraid we really are all doomed.😤😤

 

 

Presumably they want USA dollars as well as pounds but the lady above from Maryland had to jump through hoops to cruise in Europe.

 

I hope that they will be accommodating and the amount we spend on holidays is indeed an incentive for them to make things easy for travellers from the UK but at the moment we just don’t know unless someone has definitive information that I have missed. That is the issue, for me anyway.

 

 

[Son of Anarchy]

Watch out for itinery changes to cruises scheduled April onwards:

 

Baltic - Southampton - St Petersburg - Southampton

W Med: Southampton - Gibraltar - Southampton

More round trip transantlantic

More USA and Canada

 

Time to retire and do these longer cruises.

[Brayman]

No. 10 has issued a strong denial that this is the case.

ABTA have issued the following short statement:
“Number 10 has said that the content of the report in the Sunday Times is categorically untrue. The European Commission has said that even in a no-deal scenario, flights will still operate between the UK and EU, and a visa is not required. ABTA is providing holidaymakers and travellers with advice about Brexit and travel, including on pet passports and driving licences, which can be found at ABTA.COM

[petenlynn]

10 minutes ago, Brayman said:

No. 10 has issued a strong denial that this is the case.

ABTA have issued the following short statement:
“Number 10 has said that the content of the report in the Sunday Times is categorically untrue. The European Commission has said that even in a no-deal scenario, flights will still operate between the UK and EU, and a visa is not required. ABTA is providing holidaymakers and travellers with advice about Brexit and travel, including on pet passports and driving licences, which can be found at ABTA.COM

But no reference to anything about cruises in either the Number 10 statement or the ABTA information - all about flights, driving licences, pet passports etc. So the concern about delays getting off the ship in port is potentially still live and we are on Azura on 7th April so that's focusing my mind at the moment with the balance due imminently!!!

[Harry Peterson]

12 minutes ago, petenlynn said:

But no reference to anything about cruises in either the Number 10 statement or the ABTA information - all about flights, driving licences, pet passports etc. So the concern about delays getting off the ship in port is potentially still live and we are on Azura on 7th April so that's focusing my mind at the moment with the balance due imminently!!!

That's my worry - though I have decided to bite the bullet and pay the balance. 

 

I'm hoping - still - that we shall exit with a deal, and if there's a deal there should be no problems.  If there's no deal, I'm anticipating a completely ruined cruise because of the time wasting queuing to get into and out of ports.  Those who talk of scaremongering just aren't facing the reality of the situation - it's serious.

 

The other hope (and I think it's a serious possibility) is that Article 50 will be revoked, or at least suspended (the latter requiring agreement from the EU) to allow time to try to sort this awful mess out.

[daiB]

The advice of ABTA

You shouldn’t need a visa to travel to the EU after Brexit. The European Commission announced in November 2018 that, even in a no-deal scenario, UK travellers can still visit the EU without a visa, providing the same is offered to European citizens visiting the UK.  The European Commission has said that from 2021, UK citizens will need to pay a fee (of around 7 Euros) for this visa exemption. This is part of a new electronic travel authorisation system applying to all third country visitors to the EU, similar to the US ESTA regime.

 

Looks clear to me. No need to mention cruising.

[Harry Peterson]

25 minutes ago, daiB said:

The advice of ABTA

You shouldn’t need a visa to travel to the EU after Brexit. The European Commission announced in November 2018 that, even in a no-deal scenario, UK travellers can still visit the EU without a visa, providing the same is offered to European citizens visiting the UK.  The European Commission has said that from 2021, UK citizens will need to pay a fee (of around 7 Euros) for this visa exemption. This is part of a new electronic travel authorisation system applying to all third country visitors to the EU, similar to the US ESTA regime.

 

Looks clear to me. No need to mention cruising.

Clear, yes.  But of little relevance to cruising because the whole point of cruising is to visit places en route.

 

The visa point tells us we won't need visas, but we never did anyway within the EU (or before that).  What it doesn't mention at all is the big question of passports, which are still going to be needed, and which will have the huge drawback of not being EU passports.  That means not being able to use the fast-track EU citizens channel, and probable delays.

 

Delays on arrival back into the UK might be tolerable (though unwelcome) but delays accessing ports and getting back to the ship will be anything but tolerable.  Walking straight from the ship to the courtesy bus is incredibly easy - having to go through passport control will not be.

 

Better pray for a Brexit deal with the EU - or a revocation of Article 50!

 

 

[daiB]

1 minute ago, docco said:

Clear, yes.  But of little relevance to cruising because the whole point of cruising is to visit places en route.

 

The visa point tells us we won't need visas, but we never did anyway within the EU (or before that).  What it doesn't mention at all is the big question of passports, which are still going to be needed, and which will have the huge drawback of not being EU passports.  That means not being able to use the fast-track EU citizens channel, and probable delays.

 

Delays on arrival back into the UK might be tolerable (though unwelcome) but delays accessing ports and getting back to the ship will be anything but tolerable.  Walking straight from the ship to the courtesy bus is incredibly easy - having to go through passport control will not be.

 

Better pray for a Brexit deal with the EU - or a revocation of Article 50!

 

 

 

Have you ever cruised?

 

On leaving a cruise ship at any port, there are no EU channels. Or any other channels. All the paperwork is done by the ship before you disembark. 

 

Princess carries from the UK cruisers from Canada, the US, Japan, Australia etc. They get off all together and show their cruise card. There is no indication that that will change.

[Harry Peterson]

6 minutes ago, daiB said:

 

Have you ever cruised?

 

On leaving a cruise ship at any port, there are no EU channels. Or any other channels. All the paperwork is done by the ship before you disembark. 

 

Princess carries from the UK cruisers from Canada, the US, Japan, Australia etc. They get off all together and show their cruise card. There is no indication that that will change.

I know that full well.  But the system of passing on and off the ship using your card depends entirely on the existing arrangements the UK has as a member of the EU with EU countries and with non-EU countries.

 

What you still haven't grasped is that if we leave the EU without an agreement we will cease altogether to have those agreements in place, because there will be no transitional arrangements.  We will be a small solitary country with no international agreements in place (the old ones were ditched after we joined the EU) and as such our citizens might as well be from Mongolia - though Mongolia might well have agreements in place!

 

This is a serious issue, which is why the government's having to make contingency plans covering possible shortages of food and medicines, and covering closing entire motorways down for use as lorry parks.  You may make light of it, but it's the equivalent of Canute thinking he could control the tide.

[terrierjohn]

5 hours ago, docco said:

Not a possibility - just the hard fact of not being in the EU any longer.  There are some exemptions though:

 

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/arrivals-from-outside-the-eu

What on Earth has duty free imports to the UK got to do with paying VAT on cruise ship purchases?????

[Harry Peterson]

24 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

What on Earth has duty free imports to the UK got to do with paying VAT on cruise ship purchases?????

If you click on the link you'll see that it's headed 'Bringing goods into the UK' - it covers taxes/duties on items brought into the UK from overseas.  Of little relevance while we're in the EU, but highly relevant if we leave without an agreement.

[grapau27]

2 hours ago, docco said:

I know that full well.  But the system of passing on and off the ship using your card depends entirely on the existing arrangements the UK has as a member of the EU with EU countries and with non-EU countries.

 

What you still haven't grasped is that if we leave the EU without an agreement we will cease altogether to have those agreements in place, because there will be no transitional arrangements.  We will be a small solitary country with no international agreements in place (the old ones were ditched after we joined the EU) and as such our citizens might as well be from Mongolia - though Mongolia might well have agreements in place!

 

This is a serious issue, which is why the government's having to make contingency plans covering possible shortages of food and medicines, and covering closing entire motorways down for use as lorry parks.  You may make light of it, but it's the equivalent of Canute thinking he could control the tide.

I think you are blowing things totally out of proportion these European countries are desperate for us tourists spending money.

Take Turkey as an example,when you get off the ship in Kusadasi you don't need a visa but if you visit Turkey not on a ship you need a visa.

The same applies in St Petersburg with regards ship covering visas.

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by grapau27

[SteveH2508]

3 minutes ago, docco said:

If you click on the link you'll see that it's headed 'Bringing goods into the UK' - it covers taxes/duties on items brought into the UK from overseas.  Of little relevance while we're in the EU, but highly relevant if we leave without an agreement.

 

So we will have a lesser allowance - BUT - it will be duty-free. Also, if you are going to get stung for VAT you will be able to reclaim the VAT paid in the EU upon exiting the EU (or perhaps get it VAT-free in the first place).

 

As to your talk of passport queues - once you are in the Schengen area there are no passport queues. Outside the Schengen area it will be pretty much no change (as UK are are not in Schengen in the first place). We may be subject to the 90 out of 180 days restriction (but that shouldn't make much difference to cruising unless you do many cruises in a short space of time).

 

You are panicking unnecessarily IMHO.

[Harry Peterson]

9 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

 

 

9 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I think you are blowing things totally out of proportion these European countries are desperate for us tourists spending money.

Take Turkey as an example,when you get off the ship in Kusadasi you don't need a visa but if you visit Turkey not on a ship you need a visa.

The same applies in St Petersburg with regards ship covering visas.

 

 

7 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Do not very often agree with daiB but this time I am in total agreement and have a cruise booked around the Med in May and I am not worried one bit about having any problems at ports. Having cruised all over the world have never had any major issues in visiting countries and think you are totally looking at the black side and think you are looking at problems that are not there. You must go and get advantage of your Carnival share benefit that you recently bemoaned that they were vastly overpriced and your expert opinion is that they were due a massive correction and you will wait until they are £30 per share, but now see that you have purchased them for £40+.

We'll have to wait and see then, won't we?  If there's a deal, no problem.  If there isn't though, we crash out of the EU without the benefit of any of our existing treaties, which are all based on us being within the EU.

 

Two points:

 

1  These countries may not be as desperate for your cash as you might think - I wonder how much the average cruise passenger spends in port?  Venice, for example, would like to see the back of cruise ships.

 

2  Relying on what's happened in the past is far too simplistic.  For the last 45 years we've been in the EU (or its forerunners) but that looks about to change.  If we leave without a deal we will have no international agreements in place (and it will take along time to negotiate new ones) anywhere, and it's agreements like that that enable ease of entry into different countries.  Not all, of course, but within the EU it's all been very easy indeed.  Without a single agreement with any country, let alone those in the EU, none of the present arrangements can continue to function.  If people choose to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it's all fine, so be it.

 

David Dingle (and he should know) took the same view:

 

Dingle says: "If people are going to have extended immigration inspections, particularly when their cruise comes back to port, it means that they’re going to take much longer to get off the ship and go home. This means we can’t turn the ship around as quickly as we normally would.

Our port stays would get longer and that gets very expensive. Equally we can’t have our passengers in every European port taking hours to get ashore off the ship.

We cannot have a situation where it’s taking hours and hours for them to get ashore. That would be completely unacceptable and unnecessary, so we absolutely have to get that resolved."

[terrierjohn]

38 minutes ago, docco said:

If you click on the link you'll see that it's headed 'Bringing goods into the UK' - it covers taxes/duties on items brought into the UK from overseas.  Of little relevance while we're in the EU, but highly relevant if we leave without an agreement.

Under post #80 you were suggesting that on board purchases could be subject to 20% VAT, nobody is worried about the stingy duty free allowance whether we are in the EU or not, and from my understanding we should revert to being able to buy duty free from EU countries once we leave, so that should be a plus when worrying about duty free allowances. 

[Harry Peterson]

6 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Under post #80 you were suggesting that on board purchases could be subject to 20% VAT, nobody is worried about the stingy duty free allowance whether we are in the EU or not, and from my understanding we should revert to being able to buy duty free from EU countries once we leave, so that should be a plus when worrying about duty free allowances. 

Post #80 didn't suggest any such thing - how could VAT be imposed on ships outside territorial waters? 

 

The point was, though, that whilst everything brought in currently from within the EU carries no additional VAT/duties, that changes if we leave.

 

Duty free allowances will return, but they're pretty small - I suppose it depends what you're buying as to whether the new regime will suit.