Cigarette smokers on cruise ships

[beachbum53]

51 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

Just curious what your source of information is to support this statement?  Not disagreeing - just curious where your facts are coming from.

 

29 minutes ago, beachbum53 said:

 

It's based on something I read several years, but I don't remember the exact web site where I saw it. I have no reason to doubt the article, since it seems perfectly logical to me. 

 

I did a search to find the article. I don't remember if this was the article that I saw, but it's pretty close to what I read.    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16638233/ns/travel-cruise_travel/t/failure-launch/#.XK83otW6MnQ

[Joebucks]

1 hour ago, lisiamc said:

 

I’ve read about dangers from second-hand smoke, but never from second-hand diabetes or obesity.

 

While second hand smoke certainly doesn't enhance your health, it is an overrated scare tactic. Do you honestly know anyone who has suffered harmful effects of it, unless they were around a chain smoker 24/7? More people are breathing in traffic pollution than they are second hand cigarette smoke. They just don't know to be mad at it because a paid interest group didn't tell them.

 

People often confuse a smell with smoke. Again, I'm not an advocate of cigarette smoking and the smell it leaves in the casino. 

[lisiamc]

10 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

While second hand smoke certainly doesn't enhance your health, it is an overrated scare tactic. Do you honestly know anyone who has suffered harmful effects of it, unless they were around a chain smoker 24/7? More people are breathing in traffic pollution than they are second hand cigarette smoke. They just don't know to be mad at it because a paid interest group didn't tell them.

 

People often confuse a smell with smoke. Again, I'm not an advocate of cigarette smoking and the smell it leaves in the casino. 

 

I’m 62.  I grew up with parents who smoked, all the time, everywhere, including in the car on every trip, and in bed before they went to sleep.  They weren’t chain smokers.  As far as I could see, they smoked the same amount as all their friends, about 2 packs a day.  It was normal for the time.  It seemed like everyone else smoked, too.  There were no restaurants in those days where you weren’t sitting near someone who was smoking while you were eating.  And yes, I can say that I know many people who suffered harmful effects from it, including my asthmatic friends, whose parents also smoked.

[leaveitallbehind]

46 minutes ago, beachbum53 said:

 

 

I did a search to find the article. I don't remember if this was the article that I saw, but it's pretty close to what I read.    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16638233/ns/travel-cruise_travel/t/failure-launch/#.XK83otW6MnQ

 

Thanks.  So, along with what you said, it looks like it was also a combination of being moved to a West Coast itinerary as the only ship in that region with that itinerary.  Limiting that ship to non-smoking also was not practical as the only ship to choose from there for that cruise line. Interesting.  

Edited April 11, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[Essiesmom]

27 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

Thanks.  So, along with what you said, it looks like it was also a combination of being moved to a West Coast itinerary as the only ship in that region with that itinerary.  Limiting that ship to non-smoking also was not practical as the only ship to choose from there for that cruise line. Interesting.  

 

Ah, but doesn't it make you wonder that they chose THAT ship to move?  She was the last of the Fantasy class, there were 7 others...  Maybe they wanted to shuck the non-smoking, so chose her...  EM

[SantaFeFan]

3 hours ago, beachbum53 said:

Smoking versus not smoking on cruise ships will never be settled to everyone's satisfaction. Health issues aside, I don't foresee any cruise line banning smoking on their entire fleet. That would mean eliminating a source of revenue, just as banning alcohol on all cruises would eliminate those who drink alcohol so as to make non-drinkers more comfortable, or eliminating casinos so that those with a gambling problem can enjoy cruising without being tempted. When Carnival's Paradise first started sailing, it was a smoke-free ship. But it didn't take long for Carnival to realize there weren't enough non-smokers to keep the ship filled to capacity week after week. Much to the chagrin of non-smokers, after Carnival realized they were losing money by excluding  smokers from the Paradise, the decision was made to allow smoking on the ship.

 

First, the smoking vs not smoking issue seems to be settled to many people's satisfaction based on the number of posts on this thread alone that say the current policies are fine with them. 

 

Second, Carnival Breeze was an experiment that was decades ahead of it's time. She was launched as a non-smoking ship over twenty years ago. People weren't as used to no smoking policies back then as they are now. Since then, many communities, states and even countries have banned smoking in restaurants, bars, hotels, and public spaces. Today, there is a much higher awareness regarding the dangers of smoking, for both the smokers and people around them. While Carnival's experiment did not fare well twenty years ago (and keep in mind that other issues affected the failure), today there would be a much better chance of success with the ever growing awareness of the negatives of smoking, a trend seen even in traditionally heavy smoking countries.  

 

Based on your defense of smoking and your trotting out a decades old experiment to support your argument that banning smoking would not work today, I suspect that you are a smoker and are invested in advocating for cruise lines to not become more restrictive. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[Hlitner]

Cruise lines, especially the mass market lines, seem to march to the least denominator!  What this means is that the lines will usually try to meet the expectations of a majority of their customers.  As expectations plummet, so does the quality on these lines.  As long as non-smokers are willing to accept the current smoking limitations there will be little reason for the cruise lines to change their related policies.  We can see here on CC that anti-smoking crowd has significantly quieted down since most of the lines have imposed additional smoking restrictions (such as no smoking on balconies).   Although there still seems to be some pressure to ban indoor smoking (a policy already embraced by some lines) we suspect that most are accepting of limited outdoor smoking areas.

 

My theory of the "least denominator" is buttressed by a current discussion on the HAL board.  HAL has been experimenting with a $10 charge for anyone who orders a 2nd main course in their MDR.  What we find fascinating are all the posts that support this new fee because some folks are naturally supportive of their favorite line.  So perhaps the next steps will be a $10 fee for deck chairs, a $10 fee for using tenders, etc.  As long as folks are willing to accept change (even when negative) the lines will keep finding new ways to increase revenue and reduce cost.   Perhaps some cruise line's will start charging a $10 fee for admission to a special smoking room :).  They will argue that the fee is justified because of the extra cleaning fees, repairing damage to furniture (caused by burns), and the extra cost involved with the installation of a dedicated air evacuation system.

 

Hank

[beachbum53]

13 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

First, the smoking vs not smoking issue seems to be settled to many people's satisfaction based on the number of posts on this thread alone that say the current policies are fine with them. 

 

Second, Carnival Breeze was an experiment that was decades ahead of it's time. She was launched as a non-smoking ship over twenty years ago. People weren't as used to no smoking policies back then as they are now. Since then, many communities, states and even countries have banned smoking in restaurants, bars, hotels, and public spaces. Today, there is a much higher awareness regarding the dangers of smoking, for both the smokers and people around them. While Carnival's experiment did not fare well twenty years ago (and keep in mind that other issues affected the failure), today there would be a much better chance of success with the ever growing awareness of the negatives of smoking, a trend seen even in traditionally heavy smoking countries.  

 

Based on your defense of smoking and your trotting out a decades old experiment to support your argument that banning smoking would not work today, I suspect that you are a smoker and are invested in advocating for cruise lines to not become more restrictive. 

 

To begin with, the Breeze is barely seven years old, and was never launched as a non-smoking ship. Second, I have been tobacco free for over four years. Regardless, I am not defending either side of the smoking/non-smoking debate. I stand by my statement that it's an issue that will never be settled to everyone's satisfaction. I also firmly believe that none of the cruise lines will ever make their entire fleet smoke free because they don't want the loss of revenue that would occur as a result. I do believe it is important for smokers to respect the rights of non-smokers. At the same time, I wish non-smokers would stop beating this very dead horse and quit bringing up this issue over and over again. 

[SantaFeFan]

49 minutes ago, beachbum53 said:

 

To begin with, the Breeze is barely seven years old, and was never launched as a non-smoking ship. Second, I have been tobacco free for over four years. Regardless, I am not defending either side of the smoking/non-smoking debate. I stand by my statement that it's an issue that will never be settled to everyone's satisfaction. I also firmly believe that none of the cruise lines will ever make their entire fleet smoke free because they don't want the loss of revenue that would occur as a result. I do believe it is important for smokers to respect the rights of non-smokers. At the same time, I wish non-smokers would stop beating this very dead horse and quit bringing up this issue over and over again. 

 

Oops, my mistake. I should have written Carnival Paradise, not breeze. Not being a Carnival customer, I don't know the ship names very well. Thanks for the correction. 👍

 

I still stand by my belief that for most cruisers the current policies are acceptable even though the subject of completely non smoking ships comes up one or twice a year (which I don't consider is "bringing up this issue over and over again"). For many of us, the situation is indeed settled to our satisfaction. Not everyone, as you have stated, but then again, I doubt there is anything in the world that is "settled to everyone's satisfaction". 🙂 

 

I also believe, as you do, that the cruise lines will not establish completely smoke free ships, but for a different reason. There is no need to as there aren't very many people demanding it. As Hlitner has mentioned in the post above, most cruisers are accepting of limited outdoor smoking areas. So there is no need for the cruise lines to go even further. And I agree with this even though I have never smoked, and hate the smell of it.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[beachbum53]

7 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Oops, my mistake. I should have written Carnival Paradise, not breeze. Not being a Carnival customer, I don't know the ship names very well. Thanks for the correction. 👍

 

I still stand by my belief that for most cruisers the current policies are acceptable even though the subject of completely non smoking ships comes up one or twice a year (which I don't consider is "bringing up this issue over and over again"). For many of us, the situation is indeed settled to our satisfaction. Not everyone, as you have stated, but then again, I doubt there is anything in the world that is "settled to everyone's satisfaction". 🙂 

 

I also believe, as you do, that the cruise lines will not establish completely smoke free ships, but for a different reason. There is no need to as there aren't very many people demanding it. As Hlitner has mentioned in the post above, most cruisers are accepting of limited outdoor smoking areas. So there is no need for the cruise lines to go even further. And I agree with this even though I have never smoked, and hate the smell of it.

 

 

 

Actually, the debate comes up far more frequently than you're probably aware of. If you were to check, not just on this board (Ask A Cruise Question), but on the individual cruise line boards,  you'd see it discussed on an average of three (or more) times a month. It's at or very near the top of the list of "hot button"  topics.

[lenquixote66]

In my humble opinion smoking should be banned on every ship .People fail to realize that they are killing themselves and others. Too many friends of mine laughed at the idea and have died from lung cancer.

 

[SantaFeFan]

2 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

In my humble opinion smoking should be banned on every ship .People fail to realize that they are killing themselves and others. Too many friends of mine laughed at the idea and have died from lung cancer.

 

 

Not sure how smokers are killing others since people usually can very easily avoid their smoke. 😕

 

It is not the cruise line's responsibility to save people from giving themselves lung cancer. If they want to smoke, that is their choice, which they have every right to have as long as it doesn't affect other people. As long as cruise lines provide one or two outdoor areas for them to "kill" themselves in that are easy to avoid, I have no problem with them doing to themselves what they want. Just like I don't feel it is our responsibility to prevent people from killing themselves participating in dangerous and risky sports activities, it isn't our responsibility to prevent them from killing themselves by smoking. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[Gwendy]

Are the cruise lines allowing people to kill themselves with overeating or the amount of alcohol they consume?  It is an individual choice if what we do so long as they do not affect others enjoyment.  Having specified areas for smoking allows others to stay away from there.  I am neither a smoker or a drinker just for clarification.

[Malleykatt]

I am asthmatic but have not suffered from smokers whilst on board . They have their own area and its easy for me to avoid. However vaping is something else. I really get a reaction and it brings on an attack fairly quickly. Last year whilst on a sea day a woman sat on the side of the pool vaping I was sitting two rows back and that was it. Me rolling around gasping for breath and no I'm not being dramatic asthma kills and through one very violent attack I've been close. The crew were brilliant and the on board doctor. The fellow passenger to give her some credit was mortified the her " harmless little vice" could affect others that way. I don't think a non smoking cruise would work, alcohol can be bad for your health will we see a dry/ tea total ship I don't think so. People just need to think a little more instead of me me me. My holiday.....I paid for....we are there to kick back and relax and see the world.....we are all in the same boat....pardon the pun.

[navybankerteacher]

9 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

In my humble opinion smoking should be banned on every ship .People fail to realize that they are killing themselves and others. Too many friends of mine laughed at the idea and have died from lung cancer.

 

Actually, if cruise lines did completely ban smoking, it could be seen as an act of kindness to help smokers give up the habit. Not only would they be providing an incentive to quit, they would be helping the new ex-smokers afford more cruises by using the thousands of dollars per year saved by not smoking.

[Harry and Lucille]

Yes. I smoke. I also drink and gamble. I cruise a couple of times a year. When I was young, every one I knew started smoking around the age of 10. I have been smoking a pack a day for over 70 years. 

 

Interesting thing. I brought up the subject with my doctor about quitting and he kind of smiled and said "at your age and the time you have smoked, the stress of quitting would probably give you a heart attack before you came down with cancer". Hummm.

 

At 81, I don't plan on changing my ways. Also, it seems that the smoking areas have the most congenial laid back cruisers on the ship.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Not sure how smokers are killing others since people usually can very easily avoid their smoke. 😕

 

It is not the cruise line's responsibility to save people from giving themselves lung cancer. If they want to smoke, that is their choice, which they have every right to have as long as it doesn't affect other people. As long as cruise lines provide one or two outdoor areas for them to "kill" themselves in that are easy to avoid, I have no problem with them doing to themselves what they want. Just like I don't feel it is our responsibility to prevent people from killing themselves participating in dangerous and risky sports activities, it isn't our responsibility to prevent them from killing themselves by smoking. 

If it were only specified outside areas, I would agree with your post, however, most ships allow smoking in the casino. And in too many of those ships, you have to go through the casino to get to other places, often including the main dining room.

[Hlitner]

5 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If it were only specified outside areas, I would agree with your post, however, most ships allow smoking in the casino. And in too many of those ships, you have to go through the casino to get to other places, often including the main dining room.

You have made a great case why you should be cruising on Celebrity :).  They do not allow smoking in their casinos (or anywhere else inside their ships).  Another option would be to cruise on Viking Ocean Cruises since they do not even have any casinos :).

 

Hank

 

 

[davekathy]

12 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If it were only specified outside areas, I would agree with your post, however, most ships allow smoking in the casino. And in too many of those ships, you have to go through the casino to get to other places, often including the main dining room.

Celebrity banned inside smoking on all of their ships in 2009. Kudos to Celebrity. 👍

[ontheweb]

38 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

nYou have made a great case why you should be cruising on Celebrity :).  They do not allow smoking in their casinos (or anywhere else inside their ships).  Another option would be to cruise on Viking Ocean Cruises since they do not even have any casinos :).

 

Hank

 

 

I guess it makes it ironic that neither Celebrity nor Viking Ocean is among the five cruise lines that we have sailed on.

Edited April 13, 2019 by ontheweb
for grammatical correctness changed or to nor

[lenquixote66]

On April 11, 2019 at 8:57 AM, Joebucks said:

 

While second hand smoke certainly doesn't enhance your health, it is an overrated scare tactic. Do you honestly know anyone who has suffered harmful effects of it, unless they were around a chain smoker 24/7? More people are breathing in traffic pollution than they are second hand cigarette smoke. They just don't know to be mad at it because a paid interest group didn't tell them.

 

People often confuse a smell with smoke. Again, I'm not an advocate of cigarette smoking and the smell it leaves in the casino. 

The wife of a friend of mine was a smoker .He never smoked and died from lung cancer in 2015. My father  was a smoker ,my mother who never smoked had lung cancer .

[cruisemom42]

7 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

The wife of a friend of mine was a smoker .He never smoked and died from lung cancer in 2015. My father  was a smoker ,my mother who never smoked had lung cancer .

 

There is a vast difference between living with a smoker for a long number of years and catching an occasional whiff of smoke on a vacation of short duration....  Surely that's not difficult to understand?

[lenquixote66]

11 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

There is a vast difference between living with a smoker for a long number of years and catching an occasional whiff of smoke on a vacation of short duration....  Surely that's not difficult to understand?

You are absolutely correct. However ,in my opinion smoking is not something healthy in my opinion and I do not believe smoking ,drinking or overeating should be encouraged in any venue . I am not trying to change the world ,just offering an opinion. We live in a free society and everyone is entitled to theit opinion.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

You have made a great case why you should be cruising on Celebrity :).  They do not allow smoking in their casinos (or anywhere else inside their ships).  Another option would be to cruise on Viking Ocean Cruises since they do not even have any casinos :).

 

Hank

 

 

Fair enough, but Celebrity is not the only line I like - while we do enjoy having a casino;  so smokers, aside from occasionally fouling the air I breathe, do deny me comfortable access to casinos - as well as adjacent areas.  Accordingly, I would welcome an outright ban on shipboard smoking.

[davekathy]

29 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Fair enough, but Celebrity is not the only line I like - while we do enjoy having a casino;  so smokers, aside from occasionally fouling the air I breathe, do deny me comfortable access to casinos - as well as adjacent areas.  Accordingly, I would welcome an outright ban on shipboard smoking.

The casinos on RC ships have turned into smoking lounges with occasional gambling.