HAL's Poor Response to Corona Virus

[TiogaCruiser]

So if HAL changes ports, what nearby countries have visa requirements that are easy enough for pax (Or HAL on behalf of pax) to fulfill at short notice? 

[AllureOfVacation]

Finally, HAL informed us by email!

 

15th of February: Yokohama!

[Donald]

14 hours ago, Mary229 said:

 I would think this has a lot to do with it.  If the WHO declares a medical emergency, which is what is being discussed, then HAL's own insurance would kick in.  If they cancel prior to that declaration they would have to bear all of the costs themselves

All of Carnival's brands - including HAL - are self-insured for events like this. There is no insurance waiting to kick in.

[pictonite]

2 hours ago, AllureOfVacation said:

Finally, HAL informed us by email!

 

15th of February: Yokohama!

You know more than we do - on the Westerdam right now.  Expecting to disembark in Shanghai on February 15.  The captain has said that we plan to sail with the advertised itinerary , and will keep us informed as he hears from Seattle.  We'll just have to wait for the official word.  We have our travel agent on standby to change flight plans if and when they are needed.

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

All of Carnival's brands - including HAL - are self-insured for events like this. There is no insurance waiting to kick in.

Source?

[Donald]

Somebody who has worked on Carnival brands for 14 years - me.

[Mary229]

41 minutes ago, Donald said:

Somebody who has worked on Carnival brands for 14 years - me.

Management.  I really doubt CCL self-insures for disasters.  Whether they self-insure for cancellations, maybe.   Self-insurance exposes shareholders to an undue risk

[pictonite]

1 hour ago, pictonite said:

You know more than we do - on the Westerdam right now.  Expecting to disembark in Shanghai on February 15.  The captain has said that we plan to sail with the advertised itinerary , and will keep us informed as he hears from Seattle.  We'll just have to wait for the official word.  We have our travel agent on standby to change flight plans if and when they are needed.

Update:  The captain has informed us that we will disembark in Yokohama on February 15.  We are going with the flow.  We have an extra day in Halong Bay rather than two days in Hong Kong.  Right now Halong Bay sounds so much better for us!  We'll disembark passengers in Hong Kong on February 1, and new passengers will embark then.  Still loving the cruise.

[kazu]

42 minutes ago, pictonite said:

Update:  The captain has informed us that we will disembark in Yokohama on February 15.  We are going with the flow.  We have an extra day in Halong Bay rather than two days in Hong Kong.  Right now Halong Bay sounds so much better for us!  We'll disembark passengers in Hong Kong on February 1, and new passengers will embark then.  Still loving the cruise.

 

Thanks for letting us know. Stay safe.

 

 Glad you are enjoying the cruise.  

[AncientWanderer]

So looks like for at least near future, re-routing is the plan for Westerdam, rather than cancelling cruises altogether.  Yikes. So many people coming and going off the ship with the various port stops and segments of the collector's cruises.  

I feel comfortable with our decision to absorb the loss and cancel our own cruise.  Not a good time to go to Asia for us.  With travel, you win some; you lose some.  Weather, political events, illness...gotta take 'em as they come.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

Management.  I really doubt CCL self-insures for disasters.  Whether they self-insure for cancellations, maybe.   Self-insurance exposes shareholders to an undue risk

 

I agree. We tend to think of insurance as a personal thing--our homes, cars, travel, health insurance. But big businesses carry insurance, too. And the insurance companies sometimes pass on some of that liability through their own insurance, like a booking "laying off" some bets. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

So looks like for at least near future, re-routing is the plan for Westerdam, rather than cancelling cruises altogether.  Yikes. So many people coming and going off the ship with the various port stops and segments of the collector's cruises.  

I feel comfortable with our decision to absorb the loss and cancel our own cruise.  Not a good time to go to Asia for us.  With travel, you win some; you lose some.  Weather, political events, illness...gotta take 'em as they come.

 

 

I'm sorry you will miss the trip. But if you went, you might have been worried all the time and that's no way to travel. Sometimes you say "I don't want to cancel, but..." and then after you cancel you feel such a sense of relief that you know it was the right decision for you.

 

[bleacher04]

6 hours ago, AllureOfVacation said:

Finally, HAL informed us by email!

 

15th of February: Yokohama!

 

2 hours ago, pictonite said:

Update:  The captain has informed us that we will disembark in Yokohama on February 15.  We are going with the flow.  We have an extra day in Halong Bay rather than two days in Hong Kong.  Right now Halong Bay sounds so much better for us!  We'll disembark passengers in Hong Kong on February 1, and new passengers will embark then.  Still loving the cruise.

 

Thank you for these updates.  So does this mean that the Feb. 15-29 segment will be Yokohama return, omitting all Chinese ports?

 

[Bostonjetset]

1 hour ago, AncientWanderer said:

So looks like for at least near future, re-routing is the plan for Westerdam, rather than cancelling cruises altogether.  Yikes. So many people coming and going off the ship with the various port stops and segments of the collector's cruises.  

I feel comfortable with our decision to absorb the loss and cancel our own cruise.  Not a good time to go to Asia for us.  With travel, you win some; you lose some.  Weather, political events, illness...gotta take 'em as they come.

 

I’m sorry that this happened and you will miss your trip. I wanted to say that I admire your calmness in dealing with it and acceptance of your decision. 
 

This is a tough thing for everyone involved: passengers, port authorized; cruise lines; etc etc. I totally understand why HAL would go the rerouting option rather than cancelling all together though. For someone like myself (late 30s, in decent health, still working full time) I would likely still take the cruise and would be upset to have it cancelled after months of planning and the expenses that go into it (money AND time). I do understand why an older person who may have health issues would want it cancelled though as they are at a higher risk for complications. Also, for a retired person it is much easier to just change plans and go somewhere else or travel at a later date. I don’t know your personal situation but I see both sides of this. Thanks for being classy about it though.  

[npcl]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I agree. We tend to think of insurance as a personal thing--our homes, cars, travel, health insurance. But big businesses carry insurance, too. And the insurance companies sometimes pass on some of that liability through their own insurance, like a booking "laying off" some bets. 

large companies will self insure for fairly large amounts. With CCL owned companies a good example is that with Costa Concordia sinking insurance did not kick in until after the first 40 million. So if they have that deductible on a ship sinking, it is very likely that any impact from the route changes will be paid for by the cruise line, not insurance.

[Mary229]

17 minutes ago, npcl said:

large companies will self insure for fairly large amounts. With CCL owned companies a good example is that with Costa Concordia sinking insurance did not kick in until after the first 40 million. So if they have that deductible on a ship sinking, it is very likely that any impact from the route changes will be paid for by the cruise line, not insurance.

It depends.  Just like a Texas homeowner policy there are different deductibles for different hazards.   Businesses buy multi-line policies covering anything from slip and fall, employee compensation to full loss. Full loss would be again subdivided by cause  

 

I am sure if someone would delve into the financial disclosures the information is discussed 

 

found it n page 35

 

https://www.carnivalcorp.com/static-files/dc114e2f-468b-4092-9ac2-d707f803693b

Edited January 28, 2020 by Mary229

[Viv0828]

8 hours ago, AllureOfVacation said:

Finally, HAL informed us by email!

 

15th of February: Yokohama!

 

interesting. we have heard nada from HAL.

maybe later today???

did they send an updated ininerary as well?

 

[ted144]

Hard to believe that Carnival is not canceling any cruises to China. This was announced a few minutes ago:

Coronavirus: Celebrity, Holland America Line and Seabourn Cruises Refuse to Cancel or Refund Cruises to China

January 28, 2020

Several major cruise lines, including Celebrity Cruises, Holland America Line and Seabourn Cruises, are refusing to cancel voyages out of China as concerns grow about the spread of the Wuhan coronavirus. The New York Times published an article this morning that Hong Kong has restricted travel from mainland China due to the deadly outbreak as infections reportedly exceed 4,500.

As of this morning, these companies have also decided not to refund their customers’ cruise fare for cruises scheduled to call on Chinese ports.  A regular commentator on our firm’s Cruise Law News Facebook Page states:

“Sadly Celebrity Millennium is canceling nothing. Many are writing about it on the Celebrity Captain’s Club Facebook Page. As a result many are going as they have spent a lot. Celebrity is offering no credit or cancel option without losing it all. Pretty shocking.”

A crew member employed by Seabourn who is working aboard the Seabourn Ovation, and who wishes to stay anonymous, states:

“I guess my company doesn’t have the plan on cancelling our itinerary to Hong Kong this 1st and 2nd of February. Worst, it’s our embarkation day. They think they can avoid an infected guest going onboard on that day despite the incubation period of the virus which is 10-14 days. I hope they will change their mind. Coz its like we are going to a suicide mission…”

The crew member in question states that Seabourn and its parent company HAL/Carnival Corporation do not have any new medical procedures to screen passengers who may have been exposed to coronavirus.

Cruise travel writer Gene Sloan wrote an article yesterday titled: Cruise Lines Begin Canceling China Sailings as Virus Worries Grow which mentioned that Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises, and Costa Cruises are all stopping operation out of China because of the virus and providing full refunds to their guests. Mr. Sloan writes that “Both Royal Caribbean and MSC Cruises said passengers on the canceled sailings would receive full refunds. Costa Cruises didn’t address refunds in its statement.”

However, Holland America Line (HAL) which operates the Westerdam, which is scheduled to depart from Hong Kong this Saturday on a 14-nightvoyage to Taiwan and Japan that ends in Shanghai, refuses to either cancel the cruise or provide refunds to its customers. HAL will then sail the Westerdam on a 14-night voyage out of Shanghai that is scheduled to include calls at the Chinese ports of Qingdao and Tianjin (the port for Beijing).

HAL states that in light of the outbreak, it will allegedly implement “stepped-up screening procedures” for its cruise ships, including a “requirement for temperature and questionnaire screening for persons from affected areas.”

The anonymous crew member sent our office a copy of a HAL pamphlet (which also applies to Seabourn cruise ships) explaining how crew members should respond to guest inquiries about the feared virus, “should a guest inquire about our procedures or the company’s response to the illness, you can simply reply:”

“Your health and safety are always are top priority. Our medical experts are always in close contact with international health organizations. We are taking many precautions – as we always do – to prevent illness onboard.”

Passengers aboard the Seabourn Ovation which will be sailing from Vietnam across the South China Sea on January 31st, and calling on Hong Kong on February 1st and 2nd, will be sailing to a port which other cruise lines have prudently cancelled on their itineraries.

It’s a shame that Celebrity, HAL and Seabourn are refusing to cancel and refund the cruises to Chinese ports and, in the case of HAL/Seabourn, requiring crew members to issue talking points dreamed up by clueless shore-side executives. Perhaps now that Hong Kong is closing its China borders as the coronavirus spreads (as of this morning per CNN) these greedy and irresponsible cruise lines will bend to public pressure.

 

[eurolady]

Based on the response I got from HAL from the 3 people I spoke to....they are clueless....or just maybe money grabbing.

[USN59-79]

11 minutes ago, ted144 said:

Hard to believe that Carnival is not canceling any cruises to China. This was announced a few minutes ago:

Coronavirus: Celebrity, Holland America Line and Seabourn Cruises Refuse to Cancel or Refund Cruises to China

January 28, 2020

Several major cruise lines, including Celebrity Cruises, Holland America Line and Seabourn Cruises, are refusing to cancel voyages out of China as concerns grow about the spread of the Wuhan coronavirus. The New York Times published an article this morning that Hong Kong has restricted travel from mainland China due to the deadly outbreak as infections reportedly exceed 4,500.

As of this morning, these companies have also decided not to refund their customers’ cruise fare for cruises scheduled to call on Chinese ports.  A regular commentator on our firm’s Cruise Law News Facebook Page states:

“Sadly Celebrity Millennium is canceling nothing. Many are writing about it on the Celebrity Captain’s Club Facebook Page. As a result many are going as they have spent a lot. Celebrity is offering no credit or cancel option without losing it all. Pretty shocking.”

A crew member employed by Seabourn who is working aboard the Seabourn Ovation, and who wishes to stay anonymous, states:

“I guess my company doesn’t have the plan on cancelling our itinerary to Hong Kong this 1st and 2nd of February. Worst, it’s our embarkation day. They think they can avoid an infected guest going onboard on that day despite the incubation period of the virus which is 10-14 days. I hope they will change their mind. Coz its like we are going to a suicide mission…”

The crew member in question states that Seabourn and its parent company HAL/Carnival Corporation do not have any new medical procedures to screen passengers who may have been exposed to coronavirus.

Cruise travel writer Gene Sloan wrote an article yesterday titled: Cruise Lines Begin Canceling China Sailings as Virus Worries Grow which mentioned that Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises, and Costa Cruises are all stopping operation out of China because of the virus and providing full refunds to their guests. Mr. Sloan writes that “Both Royal Caribbean and MSC Cruises said passengers on the canceled sailings would receive full refunds. Costa Cruises didn’t address refunds in its statement.”

However, Holland America Line (HAL) which operates the Westerdam, which is scheduled to depart from Hong Kong this Saturday on a 14-nightvoyage to Taiwan and Japan that ends in Shanghai, refuses to either cancel the cruise or provide refunds to its customers. HAL will then sail the Westerdam on a 14-night voyage out of Shanghai that is scheduled to include calls at the Chinese ports of Qingdao and Tianjin (the port for Beijing).

HAL states that in light of the outbreak, it will allegedly implement “stepped-up screening procedures” for its cruise ships, including a “requirement for temperature and questionnaire screening for persons from affected areas.”

The anonymous crew member sent our office a copy of a HAL pamphlet (which also applies to Seabourn cruise ships) explaining how crew members should respond to guest inquiries about the feared virus, “should a guest inquire about our procedures or the company’s response to the illness, you can simply reply:”

“Your health and safety are always are top priority. Our medical experts are always in close contact with international health organizations. We are taking many precautions – as we always do – to prevent illness onboard.”

Passengers aboard the Seabourn Ovation which will be sailing from Vietnam across the South China Sea on January 31st, and calling on Hong Kong on February 1st and 2nd, will be sailing to a port which other cruise lines have prudently cancelled on their itineraries.

It’s a shame that Celebrity, HAL and Seabourn are refusing to cancel and refund the cruises to Chinese ports and, in the case of HAL/Seabourn, requiring crew members to issue talking points dreamed up by clueless shore-side executives. Perhaps now that Hong Kong is closing its China borders as the coronavirus spreads (as of this morning per CNN) these greedy and irresponsible cruise lines will bend to public pressure.

 

Good example of "Fake Media"

[Level six]

5 minutes ago, USN59-79 said:

Good example of "Fake Media"

 

How is it fake?  I am on that sailing and it is true. 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, Bostonjetset said:

For someone like myself (late 30s, in decent health, still working full time) I would likely still take the cruise and would be upset to have it cancelled after months of planning and the expenses that go into it (money AND time). I do understand why an older person who may have health issues would want it cancelled though as they are at a higher risk for complications. Also, for a retired person it is much easier to just change plans and go somewhere else or travel at a later date. 

 

I feel the same, although slightly older than you. I am on Westerdam's April 14 sailing (Japan and Russia, no China) and am following this with interest but not too much concern for my own cruise. As more details emerge, I may change my opinion, but for now the virus appears to have similar mortality to the flu.

 

[VennDiagram]

19 minutes ago, ted144 said:

our firm’s Cruise Law News Facebook Page

 

Cruise Law News .... that guy just loves attention and loves to say anything he can that is detrimental to cruise lines (and gets him attention  😉 )

 

Wait for a more reliable source

[DeeniEncinitas]

13 minutes ago, ted144 said:

Hard to believe that Carnival is not canceling any cruises to China. This was announced a few minutes ago:

Coronavirus: Celebrity, Holland America Line and Seabourn Cruises Refuse to Cancel or Refund Cruises to China

January 28, 2020

Several major cruise lines, including Celebrity Cruises, Holland America Line and Seabourn Cruises, are refusing to cancel voyages out of China as concerns grow about the spread of the Wuhan coronavirus. The New York Times published an article this morning that Hong Kong has restricted travel from mainland China due to the deadly outbreak as infections reportedly exceed 4,500.

As of this morning, these companies have also decided not to refund their customers’ cruise fare for cruises scheduled to call on Chinese ports.  A regular commentator on our firm’s Cruise Law News Facebook Page states:

“Sadly Celebrity Millennium is canceling nothing. Many are writing about it on the Celebrity Captain’s Club Facebook Page. As a result many are going as they have spent a lot. Celebrity is offering no credit or cancel option without losing it all. Pretty shocking.”

A crew member employed by Seabourn who is working aboard the Seabourn Ovation, and who wishes to stay anonymous, states:

“I guess my company doesn’t have the plan on cancelling our itinerary to Hong Kong this 1st and 2nd of February. Worst, it’s our embarkation day. They think they can avoid an infected guest going onboard on that day despite the incubation period of the virus which is 10-14 days. I hope they will change their mind. Coz its like we are going to a suicide mission…”

The crew member in question states that Seabourn and its parent company HAL/Carnival Corporation do not have any new medical procedures to screen passengers who may have been exposed to coronavirus.

Cruise travel writer Gene Sloan wrote an article yesterday titled: Cruise Lines Begin Canceling China Sailings as Virus Worries Grow which mentioned that Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises, and Costa Cruises are all stopping operation out of China because of the virus and providing full refunds to their guests. Mr. Sloan writes that “Both Royal Caribbean and MSC Cruises said passengers on the canceled sailings would receive full refunds. Costa Cruises didn’t address refunds in its statement.”

However, Holland America Line (HAL) which operates the Westerdam, which is scheduled to depart from Hong Kong this Saturday on a 14-nightvoyage to Taiwan and Japan that ends in Shanghai, refuses to either cancel the cruise or provide refunds to its customers. HAL will then sail the Westerdam on a 14-night voyage out of Shanghai that is scheduled to include calls at the Chinese ports of Qingdao and Tianjin (the port for Beijing).

HAL states that in light of the outbreak, it will allegedly implement “stepped-up screening procedures” for its cruise ships, including a “requirement for temperature and questionnaire screening for persons from affected areas.”

The anonymous crew member sent our office a copy of a HAL pamphlet (which also applies to Seabourn cruise ships) explaining how crew members should respond to guest inquiries about the feared virus, “should a guest inquire about our procedures or the company’s response to the illness, you can simply reply:”

“Your health and safety are always are top priority. Our medical experts are always in close contact with international health organizations. We are taking many precautions – as we always do – to prevent illness onboard.”

Passengers aboard the Seabourn Ovation which will be sailing from Vietnam across the South China Sea on January 31st, and calling on Hong Kong on February 1st and 2nd, will be sailing to a port which other cruise lines have prudently cancelled on their itineraries.

It’s a shame that Celebrity, HAL and Seabourn are refusing to cancel and refund the cruises to Chinese ports and, in the case of HAL/Seabourn, requiring crew members to issue talking points dreamed up by clueless shore-side executives. Perhaps now that Hong Kong is closing its China borders as the coronavirus spreads (as of this morning per CNN) these greedy and irresponsible cruise lines will bend to public pressure.

 

THIS IS DISGUSTING  !!!! Hal is only interested in the all mighty dollar and not IMO the interest of their crew or their passengers health and safety!! What the Hell.... I am so disappointed in HAL. 
I do not take these actions lightly and I might just be one individual who believes HAL is all about greed now. I truly believed 

they would of been one of the first cruise lines to step up and show they cared!

I pray HAL comes through and does the right thing for all the passengers and loyal crew!!!!!

Sorry, I just finally had to get this off my chest!

Denise😞
 

[Level six]

Holland America is refusing to cancel.  We got the email last night.  There is an itinerary change, instead of Shanghai we are going to Tokyo.