Told we can't cruise due to Coronavirus - no full refund??!

[ONECRUISER]

7 minutes ago, Buckeyebrd said:

I am sure RCCL and all the cruise lines are somewhat "frantic" about the "what-ifs" that could take place if this issue continues to expand.............The media loves a good crisis for ratings but, the key is accurate info to make good decisions ie: what is true and what is not (social media has shown itself as a positive weapon and, also as an inaccurate device as well). 

But, make no mistake, this Anthem OTS issue will raise everyone's anxiety that the issue is not abating...........and, at some point, if it continues, the GOVERNMENT will step-in and make whatever decisions it needs to make re: safety. At worst, that could mean shutting down parts of the industry for periods of time (again, fast forwarding worst case) so, RCCL and all  cruise lines had better make good decisions in the best interests of safety and using a LONG-TERM view.............there are certainly many examples of Corporations NOT taking this approach. Example: If Anthem issue is not handled properly, and with that many people exposed (again, if accurate), I can see the Govt. taking the decision-making power out of the hands of the cruise companies in that case................at minimum, a high-level of accurate communication is critical on-going to allow customers to make their own decisions---and, I agree, refunds/credits should be part of what is allowed for passengers wanting to make changes..................otherwise, the cruise industry is really opening itself to Government intervention in my opinion. 

This situation has been different then past ones, Cruise Lines AND Govt have been stepping in already. 

[marci22]

9 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Possibly but if you are denied boarding you are typically inside the window where you could try to claim a covered reason, and in this case there isn't one so the only possible hope would be cancel for any reason coverage and those policies typically require you to cancel 24 to 48 hours prior to the cruise. The other factor is if you decline the FCC and the insurance finds out that it was offered they might use that to deny your claim since you were made whole by the carrier. The one thing this all emphasizes is we can't cover all potential loses with insurance, there is still risk involved.

But you are not being made whole. If I buy a third party insurance, and I experience a loss for a covered reason, I would turn it over to my insurance company to hash out with the cruiseline. I'm not letting the insurance company off because Royal wants to give me a FCC that maybe I can't use. That's not what I paid for. (And once you go beyond trip cancellation your policy goes to trip interruption. I think it pays for cruisefare if a certain percentage of the cruise is missed.)

[marci22]

17 minutes ago, Moeve said:

I get your point but where, near this port do you have the facilities to quickly quarantine 6.000 plus people safely in small groups without putting the local population and over 300 million US citizens in harms way? I am will to bet with you not even  the USA is capable of such a feat.

I was just making the point that both sides (cruiselines and port countries) don't really want to have to provide resources for thousands of people. We don't know what is being said on either side. I am not implying that US is more or less capable of providing such resources. 

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, marci22 said:

But you are not being made whole. If I buy a third party insurance, and I experience a loss for a covered reason, I would turn it over to my insurance company to hash out with the cruiseline. I'm not letting the insurance company off because Royal wants to give me a FCC that maybe I can't use. That's not what I paid for. (And once you go beyond trip cancellation your policy goes to trip interruption. I think it pays for cruisefare if a certain percentage of the cruise is missed.)

That's the crux of it, 1 it's not a covered reason (you aren't sick and can still take the cruise) and 2 you were made whole, just not in the way you wanted to be or expected to be. Completely between you and the carrier. 

[Moeve]

one small pointer on the side many insurer form other parts of the world NEVER include the results of such event. You might want to read that pesky fine print and see just what they EXCLUDE

[marci22]

2 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

That's the crux of it, 1 it's not a covered reason (you aren't sick and can still take the cruise) and 2 you were made whole, just not in the way you wanted to be or expected to be. Completely between you and the carrier. 

I still don't understand why you wouldn't say to have insurance. For a noncovered reason your best bet is CFAR coverage. That still makes insurance valuable. I'd rather have 50-75% cash then a FCC I can't use.

[luckyinpa]

1 hour ago, momofmab said:

Ahhh... gotcha... marci - not familiar with how cruise credits work.

 

i found this out the hard way too, i paid for someones cruise and they couldnt go. found out no matter who pays, the person who is 'titled' on the cruise owns that money legally to  them. who paid doesnt matter. thankfully i had a princess policy that paid 100% future credit and was able to get the other person to sign a letter and i got all my money. 

[Buckeyebrd]

Yeah, I am talking about 2 "forces" kind of working against each other: 

1. Cruise Lines bus model is such that their revenue is SO concentrated from each cruise so that, each individual cruise makes a large impact on their profit: Ex: I read RCCL stopping cruises in China for a temporary time would, estimate, impact $0.10/share on RCCL stock for 2020. 

1B. They estimated the possibility of ANOTHER $0.10/share impactin 2020 from the reduced future bookings on their offered cruises because of having to halt cruises in the region now ie: reduced load factor for future cruises!!! 

 

If I am Richard Fain of RCCL, I believe he/they will make the best decisions possible for safety and their customers BUT, the economic impact of reducing ship load's (offering cancellations/cancelling cruises) is HUGE to their bottom-line because of each cruise being so important (think $3-4 Million in profit each cruise)..........

2. Government is concerned about trying to minimize/contain exposure to try and get the issue to abate.................but, concentrating 7500-8000 people (a full Oasis class ship for example passengers + crew) totally works counter to the issue of minimizing exposure..............at the very very extreme, best way to minimize exposure is to shut down everything (like Wuhan China as a "ghost town" people are reporting. 

 

The concentrated nature of the cruise line industry bus model +  having ships of thousands of people together works counter to the disease strategy of minimizing exposure is my point. In the end, the "media" loves to fuel the issue to attract viewers versus, what is accurate and what is not. In the US, we are talking about relatively few cases but, this ANTHEM example today (and the media exposure that follows) will RAMP-UP anxiety and concern reinforcing possible attitudes that the cruise lines are unable to get ahead of this issue alone........................2 cents. 

[sparks1093]

14 minutes ago, marci22 said:

I still don't understand why you wouldn't say to have insurance. For a noncovered reason your best bet is CFAR coverage. That still makes insurance valuable. I'd rather have 50-75% cash then a FCC I can't use.

I'm not at all saying not to have insurance, I'm saying that insurance can't cover every contingency and I don't see insurance as paying out in the OP's circumstance. As I pointed out even with CFAR coverage most policies require cancellation 24 to 48 hours before the trip so that wouldn't help in this instance either, although it does have it's place (I personally wouldn't pay more for it but that's beside the point). Yes, insurance is a good thing to have for many reasons but it does still leave gaps.

[mjkacmom]

25 minutes ago, luckyinpa said:

 

i found this out the hard way too, i paid for someones cruise and they couldnt go. found out no matter who pays, the person who is 'titled' on the cruise owns that money legally to  them. who paid doesnt matter. thankfully i had a princess policy that paid 100% future credit and was able to get the other person to sign a letter and i got all my money. 

Airlines too. My sister bought tickets for my kids on southwest to fly them out to her, we had to cancel (our dad died and her family flew here during the timeframe), and only my kids could use the credit.

[fred30]

The may generally hold firm on the Credit.   By issuing a credit many of those who had cruise insurance can get their money back form their insurance and those people will probably re-book at a later date.  This means RC is still being paid for those cabins.  Those with credits definitely will re-book.  

 

Now they may look at individual cases like yours and issue a refund.  It may take writing a letter to get a response.

By doing it this way they are essentially getting revenue from their passengers insurance companies.

Edited February 7, 2020 by fred30

[Evilgrin72]

I know this is little consolation, but thanks for being honest.  I hope you get the resolution you're seeking.  If people who may be carrying the virus lie just to get on board, they could potentially spread it to thousands of others.  You did the right thing, regardless of the outcome, and I hope you can take pride and solace in that.  You deserve it.

[Jedge]

I didn’t take the time to read this thread as we are in scramble mode. Just got to the Anthem after an hour drive and we’re given a piece of paper and turned away. No email or text beforehand. 

[ed01106]

7 minutes ago, Jedge said:

I didn’t take the time to read this thread as we are in scramble mode. Just got to the Anthem after an hour drive and we’re given a piece of paper and turned away. No email or text beforehand. 

 

[ed01106]

^^^^ Seems like at minimum they should also pay for overnight accommodations.

[vacationlover_mn]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Not really, insurance doesn't cover when the carrier cancels and refunds the customer (even though the refund in this case isn't in the form that works for them). 

So, I’m not arguing... truly I’m just curious 🙂. Would “cancel for any reason” insurance cover this?  That is what we booked for our next cruise...

[molly361]

9 minutes ago, vacationlover_mn said:

So, I’m not arguing... truly I’m just curious 🙂. Would “cancel for any reason” insurance cover this?  That is what we booked for our next cruise...

Yes it should

[later]

2 hours ago, marci22 said:

Truly, I never post this, but this is what insurance is for.

Marci:

In the eyes of an insurance company they  don’t have a loss if they got an FCC except maybe for airfare.

Edited February 7, 2020 by later

[sparks1093]

18 minutes ago, vacationlover_mn said:

So, I’m not arguing... truly I’m just curious 🙂. Would “cancel for any reason” insurance cover this?  That is what we booked for our next cruise...

IF you cancel within the time frame required by the policy then it should.

[fred30]

I would be seriously think about loosing my money and not going on a cruise that could possibly end up getting quarantined.

If they find anyone with Coronavirus then everyone will probably be stuck in their cabins for 2 weeks waiting to see who else has it.

 

[ed01106]

Does anybody know if a one day credit equals 1/9th, 1/8th, or 1/7th of a 8 night cruise? I consider it a 7 day cruise with two travel days.  Seems unfair to consider the morning of demarcation as a day.

[cruisinfanatic]

3 hours ago, momofmab said:

I commend you for being honest - however you were compensated,  just not the way you wanted to be.

 

I understand your frustration but giving refunds opens up the door for anyone to say they've had contact with someone from China - just to get the refund.  No way to prove it.

 

If you can't book a new cruise with your mom, why not recruit a friend?

Total nonsense. The cruiesline can't cancel you and not refund. How can the op bring a friend if the FCC in someone else's name

[akcruz]

46 minutes ago, vacationlover_mn said:

So, I’m not arguing... truly I’m just curious 🙂. Would “cancel for any reason” insurance cover this?  That is what we booked for our next cruise...

 

I don't have a definitive answer but reading on other threads it depends on what is stated in your particular policy.  Some do exclude this particular situation.

[marci22]

30 minutes ago, later said:

Marci:

In the eyes of an insurance company they  don’t have a loss if they got an FCC except maybe for airfare.

If it was for a noncovered reason, I agree. If it was for a covered reason then I would take it up with the insurance company because I do not agree that a FCC is the same as cash.  I am speaking generally and not in regards to coronavirus examples.

[cruisinfanatic]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

That's the crux of it, 1 it's not a covered reason (you aren't sick and can still take the cruise) and 2 you were made whole, just not in the way you wanted to be or expected to be. Completely between you and the carrier. 

In the insurance companies eyes, you are not being provided with the cruise you booked. Insurance would probably cover it.

We were cancelled because of a hurricane that hit SJU a few years ago. The ship couldn't dock at SJ and eventually docked in Port Everglades. At first Royal wanted to do a partial cruise from there and give everyone a FCC if they wanted to cancel.

I called my insurance provider and they told me that since they were not going to provide us with the cruise we booked, we would be covered.

They eventually cancelled and refunded all