Urgent - Ruby Princess 3 people infected - Urgent Tracking of Passengers

[lyndarra]

10 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

I don't see how that would be possible.

 

In this case, it would be extremely foolish as the captain had no medical testing ability, nor confirmation, so no basis to even challenge the health department. Moreover, his role is to deliver passengers safely to the destination country Australia. If Australia accepts them, and they have been treated to the best of the ability onboard as they appear to have, then his work is done. 

 

The responsibility sits with Australia, its border control, and sub policies related to Health. If those departments accept the passengers in, he has no right to prevent them and lock them up as the passengers have done nothing in contravention of the cruise line policy, and he certainly can't override health and border control responsibilities of Australia.

I totally agree with the above. I could draw an analogy here. Would a Qantas pilot be asked to confirm that he has no infected passengers on board? Whether or not passengers can enter the country is the responsibility of Border Force or relevant state authority. This should have been a first line defence but now the state is trying to abrogate their responsibility at the second line. They have failed twice.

[Aus Traveller]

21 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Did either of the shows mention the percentage of passengers who had travelled from overseas (excluding NZ) for that cruise, and how no incoming passengers on arriving flights had no health checks at all?

 

I vaguely recall someone saying around 20% of the passengers on that cruise were from the US but it may have been on a different forum. Certainly on the NZ cruises we have done on Celebrity over the past few years there was a high percentage Americans and British passengers onboard.

No, neither of the TV shows mentioned how  many passengers travelled from overseas to join the Ruby Princess. They just wanted to blaqme Carnival and the ship's officers.

 

I will mention that on our 23rd February NZ cruise on the Sea Princess, out of 1,900 passengers, there were more than 400 Americans and a similar number from the UK. It is likely the Ruby had a similar proportion from overseas.

[Pushka]

33 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

 

 

Ditto. 

I was hoping for a timeline of phone calls and emails. I guess because of the criminal investigation those details have been sealed for now. I recall way back, at the time they were disembarked that people were commenting that they had never got off a ship so quickly. Maybe it was Brandee? 

 

Sad times. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Pushka

[Vader1111]

25 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Did either of the shows mention the percentage of passengers who had travelled from overseas (excluding NZ) for that cruise, and how no incoming passengers on arriving flights had no health checks at all?

 

I vaguely recall someone saying around 20% of the passengers on that cruise were from the US but it may have been on a different forum. Certainly on the NZ cruises we have done on Celebrity over the past few years there was a high percentage Americans and British passengers onboard.

I remember reading that 80% of the passengers were Australian.  I suspect that Americans would account for over 50% of the remainder, but that's just my best guess - I haven't seen any figures breaking down that last 20%.

[Aus Traveller]

20 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Princess did pull the pin on all cruises, on March 12th, four days after that cruise departed. However they stated that cruises that were in progress would either complete their itineraries or finish in some other suitable port - I can't recall the exact wording on this.

Exactly. They said that cruises that were in progress would complete their cruises if they could do so by a certain date (maybe the 16th) and that other cruises would be cut short, ending at a port that was suitable for operational reasons. Therefore the Sea Princess on its 'clockwise direction' voyage around Australia, sailed from Tasmania back to Sydney where the cruise was scheduled to end on 7th April, rather than continue on to Adelaide.

[Aus Traveller]

The Ruby Princess is docked at Port Kembla. I am glad the government is finally seeing sense and allowing the disembarkation and repatriation of healthy crew members. Here is part of a news report on the ABC website from two hours ago:

 

Eleven coronavirus deaths, and more than 600 cases, have been linked to the Ruby Princess cruise ship, which docked at Port Kembla this morning. NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller said there were 1,040 crew members from 50 different countries still on the ship. About a fifth of them have COVID-19 symptoms.

 

The ship will get fresh supplies and everyone on board will be tested so healthy crew members can be repatriated.

[DiamondFour]

2 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Eleven coronavirus deaths, and more than 600 cases, have been linked to the Ruby Princess cruise ship, which docked at Port Kembla this morning. NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller said there were 1,040 crew members from 50 different countries still on the ship. About a fifth of them have COVID-19 symptoms.

Replace Ruby Princess with wuhan, china via persons unknown who made it past our borders and onto the ship.

 

We cannot let cruise ships take the blame here.

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

I was hoping for a timeline of phone calls and emails. I guess because of the criminal investigation those details have been sealed for now. I recall way back, at the time they were disembarked that people were commenting that they had never got off a ship so quickly. Maybe it was Brandee? 

 

Sad times. 

Passenger from the Ruby who were interviewed on the TV shows last night, said they were "rushed off the ship". I don't think any of these were experienced cruisers. For at least one it was their first cruise. I have noticed that on disembarkation day, the passengers are all keen to disembark - they want to get home and many have flights to catch.

 

They also remarked that they were surprised that officials in the terminal "just waved them through", nothing was checked. We haven't had to show our passports for years, just hand in the yellow form relating to quarantine and the value of goods and the amount of alcohol being brought in.

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, DiamondFour said:

Replace Ruby Princess with wuhan, china via persons unknown who made it past our borders and onto the ship.

 

We cannot let cruise ships take the blame here.

They will do it.

[BRANDEE]

24 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Passenger from the Ruby who were interviewed on the TV shows last night, said they were "rushed off the ship". I don't think any of these were experienced cruisers. For at least one it was their first cruise. I have noticed that on disembarkation day, the passengers are all keen to disembark - they want to get home and many have flights to catch.

 

They also remarked that they were surprised that officials in the terminal "just waved them through", nothing was checked. We haven't had to show our passports for years, just hand in the yellow form relating to quarantine and the value of goods and the amount of alcohol being brought in.

I did feel we got off the ship in record time..after 30+ cruises it was quite quick.  Guess I was waiting for a temperature check.  We got to the airport by 10am and waited 8 hours for our flight. What was new was the crew lining the promenade deck with music and signs, thanking us for cruising with them..never had that before.  Very upbeat and festive.

[Aus Traveller]

8 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

I did feel we got off the ship in record time..after 30+ cruises it was quite quick.  Guess I was waiting for a temperature check.  We got to the airport by 10am and waited 8 hours for our flight. What was new was the crew lining the promenade deck with music and signs, thanking us for cruising with them..never had that before.  Very upbeat and festive.

The crew knew it was their last cruise for whoever knows how long. That would have been a lovely end to the cruise.

[Ondine]

When they say that 600 cases can be linked to the Ruby Princess do they mean 600 passengers/crew or 600 people who may be passengers and/or contacts who have been infected by passengers.  Makes a difference to the numbers.  Still leaves at least 3,500 on board who didn't get sick.

 

Ambulances often meet ships when docking.  People do fall ill on ships or do stupid things and hurt themselves.  Been on a couple which have medivacs off them.

[Aus Traveller]

I will mention another item from (I think) both TV shows last night. The reporters asked the former passengers if "they had been told that there was illness on board" with a knowing look, implying that the ship's officers were hiding mass infections. They were also asked if they knew how many sick people there were, once again with the implication of hiding facts.

 

We have sailed on many dozens of cruises and have never heard an announcement that there is illness on board, other than noro and the first sign is usually the removal of drinks menus from the bars and salt/pepper shakers on the buffet tables. When the rate of infection is worse (a red alert), an announcement is made that people should take extra care with washing their hands and that they should report to the medical centre if they have symptoms. I have never heard numbers mentioned.

 

I understand that on this cruise, there was an announcement regarding respiratory symptoms and that people should report to the medical centre if they had such symptoms. That makes it pretty obvious there was sickness on board: did people need to be told explicitly and told the numbers?

 

From the questions the reporters asked, it was obvious they hadn't been on a cruise and didn't know what was the normal procedure.

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, Ondine said:

When they say that 600 cases can be linked to the Ruby Princess do they mean 600 passengers/crew or 600 people who may be passengers and/or contacts who have been infected by passengers.  Makes a difference to the numbers.  Still leaves at least 3,500 on board who didn't get sick.

 

Ambulances often meet ships when docking.  People do fall ill on ships or do stupid things and hurt themselves.  Been on a couple which have medivacs off them.

One of last night's TV shows mentioned that a passenger who disembarked, infected his/her family. You might say "Uh? Weren't they asked to self-isolate for 14 days?"

[Cruisegroover]

Just now, Aus Traveller said:

One of last night's TV shows mentioned that a passenger who disembarked, infected his/her family. You might say "Uh? Weren't they asked to self-isolate for 14 days?"

Exactly like the couple where he (who tested positive) was lying in the lounge coughing and spluttering while she (who didn't have it as yet) cleaned around him. 

[Pushka]

11 minutes ago, Ondine said:

When they say that 600 cases can be linked to the Ruby Princess do they mean 600 passengers/crew or 600 people who may be passengers and/or contacts who have been infected by passengers.  Makes a difference to the numbers.  Still leaves at least 3,500 on board who didn't get sick.

 

Ambulances often meet ships when docking.  People do fall ill on ships or do stupid things and hurt themselves.  Been on a couple which have medivacs off them.

I believe it is just passengers as they haven't tested all crew by a long stretch. Of course people fall sick on cruises. But we are talking covid. 
 

We were on a Celebrity Med cruise and there were constant reminders that they were dealing with a Noro outbreak. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Pushka

[The_Big_M]

11 minutes ago, Ondine said:

When they say that 600 cases can be linked to the Ruby Princess do they mean 600 passengers/crew or 600 people who may be passengers and/or contacts who have been infected by passengers.  Makes a difference to the numbers.  Still leaves at least 3,500 on board who didn't get sick.

 

 

The latter. They are classing the Ruby as a source, so are pulling the stats on cases here, and then the number who have that marked as a source. Many will not have been passengers.

[Ondine]

On our cruise departing 2 March we were explicitly told to be extra careful with washing hands and general hygiene etc.  Were told to use our own bathrooms where possible not the communal ones.  We were well aware of the situation regarding COVid19 but not the speed with which it was progressing.  I don't think anyone was expecting it to escalate that quickly.  We also had a lot of Overseas passengers onboard which was unusual for a Melbourne cruise.

 

I was surprised that we did not have temperature checks taken on boarding but we did have to fill in health forms although they rely on people being honest.

[The_Big_M]

11 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

One of last night's TV shows mentioned that a passenger who disembarked, infected his/her family. You might say "Uh? Weren't they asked to self-isolate for 14 days?"

 

To be fair, self-isolation does not automatically mean quarantine from all other family members.

 

For example, here is the statement from the official health recommendation right now:

"If you are well, others that live with you do not need to self-isolate unless they also meet one of the isolation criteria."

 

https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/how-to-protect-yourself-and-others-from-coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-self-quarantine-for-coronavirus-covid-19#advice-for-others-living-with-you

 

The reporting of course last night was just as bad, with a son saying the closest he was was 2 metres away from his parents when he met them and yet still got it. However, I'm sure they hugged, the son may well have grabbed the luggage to pull it a distance, then touched his face without washing his hands. Lots of other opportunities for transmission, but ignored for the sake of sensationalism and simplistic acceptance of things the reporters didn't want to lay blame on.

[NSWP]

I watched the Ch7 show on the Ruby last night.  Interesting but did not sway me.  Personally I don't think Carnival has been 100% truthful.  I think it is a 3 way bungle, Carnival (Princess)  NSW Health Commission and Border Force.    I think the Ruby Captain and the Senior Ship's Doctor are not telling all.   I Hope the police investigation by the NSW Police Homicide Squad - DCI Dickinson - oversighted by Commissioner Fuller, plus the Coronial Inquest down the track gets the truth.  This investigation will take the rest of the year, if not next year as well, very complex. Hundreds of witness statements from pax and crew and officials to be taken no doubt.👮‍♂️

Good luck chaps, ring me if you need me.

Edited April 6, 2020 by NSWP

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

Passenger from the Ruby who were interviewed on the TV shows last night, said they were "rushed off the ship". I don't think any of these were experienced cruisers. For at least one it was their first cruise. I have noticed that on disembarkation day, the passengers are all keen to disembark - they want to get home and many have flights to catch.

 

They also remarked that they were surprised that officials in the terminal "just waved them through", nothing was checked. We haven't had to show our passports for years, just hand in the yellow form relating to quarantine and the value of goods and the amount of alcohol being brought in.

We had to show our passports when we arrived back in Sydney after the Hawaii/Tahiti cruise last September, but not after the New Caledonia / Vanuatu cruise in December - in fact we've never had a passport check after a South Pacific  (including Fiji) itinerary but did after a PNG cruise. On every NZ cruise we've done there were passport checks, the first two onboard the ship but on the last cruise they did the check in Hobart.

[possum52]

43 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

We had to show our passports when we arrived back in Sydney after the Hawaii/Tahiti cruise last September, but not after the New Caledonia / Vanuatu cruise in December - in fact we've never had a passport check after a South Pacific  (including Fiji) itinerary but did after a PNG cruise. On every NZ cruise we've done there were passport checks, the first two onboard the ship but on the last cruise they did the check in Hobart.

We did NZ on the Golden from Melbourne and didn't have a passport check once we boarded, and not when we arrived back in Melbourne. We just walked off, having out cards cancelled as we did and straight down to collect luggage, handed in our customs' declaration card and out of the terminal.

 

I don't think it is unusual to be rushed off the ship. Our last cruise from Sydney, in 2017 was on Voyager and it was also very quick. I thought we were being rushed off and it was quickly collecting luggage and handing in customs' cards. It was so quick we didn't have to even go to our meeting point before our group was called. We were at Circular Quay station in quick time and at the airport hours before our scheduled flight.

 

Leigh

 

 

 

 

 

[DiamondFour]

3 hours ago, NSWP said:

I watched the Ch7 show on the Ruby last night.  Interesting but did not sway me.  Personally I don't think Carnival has been 100% truthful.  I think it is a 3 way bungle, Carnival (Princess)  NSW Health Commission and Border Force.    I think the Ruby Captain and the Senior Ship's Doctor are not telling all.   I Hope the police investigation by the NSW Police Homicide Squad - DCI Dickinson - oversighted by Commissioner Fuller, plus the Coronial Inquest down the track gets the truth.  This investigation will take the rest of the year, if not next year as well, very complex. Hundreds of witness statements from pax and crew and officials to be taken no doubt.👮‍♂️

Good luck chaps, ring me if you need me.

What are your thoughts on the "one tracked" investigation as described on the news and why is NSW Health not a subject of the investigation? I suppose they could reinstate Gary from the news today as he would be better suited for an investigation like this.

 

1. As was reported the ship did not sail on the 8th March until NSW Health gave it the all-clear. Was there State or Federal Government intervention on behalf of a large unnamed religious group with political influence sailing on that 8th March voyage to pressure or allow authorities to give that ship permission to sail. Note that at this date Princess had already cancelled Grand Princess, Caribbean Princess and Diamond Princess sailings. They were acting above and beyond.

2. Were there passengers on the 24th February or 8th March sailing on Ruby Princess who were either the parents or in-laws or closely associated with the parents or in-laws of a senior Federal Government Minister.

3. Was there and State or Federal Government intervention to allow the passengers of Ruby Princess to disembark the ship early on its return to Sydney despite ambulances taking passengers and suspected cases of the virus originating from china on board the ship.

4. Did any passenger on the ship who may have been connected politically receive the contact details of people or departments in the NSW government to pull strings to allow that ship to disembark the passengers early.

 

For what it is worth I think Carnival is being honest. I think they were on guard and with the Diamond Princess, the Grand Princess and the Caribbean Princess and a cruise line shut down they knew they were going to announce imminently there was no incentive for them to lie and get passengers on that ship.

 

I would love an investigation but it needs to be an impartial investigation and not done by the same state government agencies so it cannot come across as they are protecting their own.

 

Food for thought. There are millions of Australians who do cruises each year and love the industry. They are not fools and the NSW police force could lose respect forever in the eyes of such people if we see a biased cover up in a democratic and free society like Australia.

[Pushka]

Too many conspiracy theories means none are correct. 

[Porky55]

8 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

Absolutely, definitely NOT!😁 The Guardian newspaper has one report (in error) that a couple disembarked on the 8th and flew to Darwin - later tested positive. BUT every other source says they disembarked from the Ruby on the 19th and flew to Darwin later that day.

 

The comment about ill passengers would have come from the ship's records of people who attended the medical centre. I think the figure mentioned was 158. That doesn't mean that 158 were still sick when the ship arrived in Sydney.

 

I feel it is also relevant to consider that the medical took 13 or 15 swabs on the 18th and requested that NSW Health test them for COVID-19. It is logical that these swabs were from the cases considered 'most likely'. Four or five returned a positive result: the others were negative. However, it is obvious that many others on the ship were already infected, but most probably showing no symptoms.

Thank you for your comments, just as I thought.
Also not to be forgotten on the 18th/19th March is the human factor where there were most definitely passengers who KNEW they were sick but didn’t want to notify medical because

1. It costs to see the Doctors on the ship and

2. By that time everyone just wanted to get off and head home

How will they factor this element in to their Criminal inquiry??

Because sure as ships - no one will admit to any symptoms when they debarked. Same as no one is ever sick when they board!!

Edited April 6, 2020 by Porky55