Face masks Onboard?? Yes or No --- merged thread

[Nic6318]

14 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

I guess I fell out of your “everyone” scenario.  My October Horizon was booked before the pandemic is still non-refundable.  No concessions, refund options, IOUs, or general acknowledgments granted.  I “think” you

are speaking specifically to those whose cruise was canceled & rebooked and now have remorse.  

 

Hi 

Yes. I am more specifically speaking to those that have been offered more than generous pricing and additional OBC (after cancelled cruises) that are now hopeful that it may happen this August. We are all hoping these cruises go off without incident, because if it doesn't, I am sure you realize that it might be the end for an industry. 

 

So, I am curious, you haven't been able to take advantage of the almost free cruises being offered and you never had the opportunity to cancel before final payment? That doesn't sound right? Just wondering, because I have given it some thought and decided I wouldn't sail anytime this year. I felt this decision would allow me to see what happens. I am not losing out by not going on a free cruise. 

[pc_load_letter]

24 minutes ago, coevan said:

 

 

I have been cruising for 30 years, what Dr's note? BTW, it would have no meaning whatsoever. 

 

Early in the Covid mess, the cruise line industry and some lines wanted to require a doctors note that you were okay to cruise if you were over 60 or 70...can't remember which. No note from doc, no cruise. Personally I think it's a great idea.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/leading-cruise-ship-group-wants-to-ban-passengers-under-70-without-doctors-note/

[chipmaster]

9 hours ago, ray98 said:

Absolutely no for me.  In my opinion the masks are mildly effective at best.  Most people are not wearing N95, those that are either don't have them fitted correctly or when they do they are constantly manipulating them due to the breathing restrictions.  All that does is transfer the contamination to the hand which they spread by touch.  The fabric masks are just a compromise to get more people to wear masks but to a virus it looks like a chain link fence.  Sure it may stop the largest of droplets from a cough or sneeze by the wearer but the mask still becomes contaminated and does not seal.  The wearers are constantly touching them also which again leads to spreading by touch.

 

We wear N95 at work along with gloves, face shields occasionally, on certain encounters where we contact a COVID or Flu patient.  We all know how to don and doff PPE, that is 75% of the battle.  We also recognize the cumulative breathing distress is causes and try to limit exposure to an hour at a time without a break, we provide relief if necessary.  Just sit around and watch people in a store.  They are constantly touching their face and mask, even with gloves that has touched who knows what.  Then they will use their gloved hand to tap away on their cell phone and touching everything in site.  Some even wear the same gloves driving their car.  Their gloves are nothing but the medium they use to cross contaminate everything including what they pick up from their mask.  It baffles me.

 

 

 

Read the new CDC guidelines 😉

[Nic6318]

1 hour ago, skridge said:

I don't have a cruise booked.  I am still of the opinion that it is an unenforceable rule.  Are they going to toss people off the ship.  I personally think the cruise lines are luring people to give them interest free loans with everything they are doing to entice people to book new bookings during this pandemic.  I don't think they will start up in August and there will be another round of enticements to get more interest free loans.  Just musings of a realist here and opinion only.

 

Hi

 

"Are they going to toss people off the ship." The answer to your question is "yes". 

 

You are not only refusing to comply with a directive from ship's crew, (just to add again, this is already a requirement stated in the contract. no change in the wording is required) you would be refusing to comply with what would be considered a safety regulation. Do you not have those at work? Do you not comply there? Where I used to work, that would be grounds for dismissal. We live with all kinds of rules. If you only obey the ones that are to your liking, eventually are going to get in trouble.

[roguebandit]

Love how compliant Canadians are, that's why you are still under English ruel and not independent, no offense have famly thier.

But why would people who have recovered from the virus have to wear a mask, just saying the numbers are growing. 

My opinion is if you are fearful of catching the virus stay off the ship and let those of us who don't want to live in fear enjoy life.

[skridge]

21 minutes ago, Nic6318 said:

 

Hi

 

"Are they going to toss people off the ship." The answer to your question is "yes". 

 

You are not only refusing to comply with a directive from ship's crew, (just to add again, this is already a requirement stated in the contract. no change in the wording is required) you would be refusing to comply with what would be considered a safety regulation. Do you not have those at work? Do you not comply there? Where I used to work, that would be grounds for dismissal. We live with all kinds of rules. If you only obey the ones that are to your liking, eventually are going to get in trouble.

I have seen how good Carnival is at stopping people from chair hogging and enforcing dress codes.  Excuse me for if I am skeptical.

[coevan]

41 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

 

Early in the Covid mess, the cruise line industry and some lines wanted to require a doctors note that you were okay to cruise if you were over 60 or 70...can't remember which. No note from doc, no cruise. Personally I think it's a great idea.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/leading-cruise-ship-group-wants-to-ban-passengers-under-70-without-doctors-note/

 

 

key words were "wants to" it never happened as is untenable. Not sure about you folks, but it took me 3 months to get a Dr's appointment. example, Go to Dr on Tuesday, perfect health, cruise is Saturday, get a cold or flu on Friday, your note is useless. Most likely, no Dr in his right mind would open himself to writing a note.

[pc_load_letter]

17 minutes ago, coevan said:

 

 

key words were "wants to" it never happened as is untenable. Not sure about you folks, but it took me 3 months to get a Dr's appointment. example, Go to Dr on Tuesday, perfect health, cruise is Saturday, get a cold or flu on Friday, your note is useless. Most likely, no Dr in his right mind would open himself to writing a note.

 

Doctors write notes all the time. College kids often need notes to be excused from courses. Physicals are often needed for a job. Drug tests are just a doctors note that the person is not testing positive for drugs.

 

Sad that it takes you so long to get an appt. I can see my doc in a couple days.

 

The note concept was not intended to be a test for your immediate ability to cruise. By your example, the temp check during boarding would keep you off. The intent was to ensure that people with complicated pre-existing conditions could cruise. (since it's the old that are largely effected by covid)

Edited May 20, 2020 by pc_load_letter

[dandeck]

Wife & I have been on 60+ cruises.  We love them!  If it is necessary to wear masks, there is simply no way we would even think about going.  Currently have four weeks of B2B scheduled in Jan - Feb.  If there is not a cure or vaccine in place by then, no way we will be sailing.  Hate to be a downer, but without a cure or vaccine there is no way to avoid contagion on a ship.  Another outbreak on a ship, any ship, and the bottom will fall out immediately for all lines.  Therefore, I feel certain a cure will be forthcoming very soon.  The industry cannot survive without it.     

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

1 hour ago, Nic6318 said:

 

So, I am curious, you haven't been able to take advantage of the almost free cruises being offered and you never had the opportunity to cancel before final payment?

I haven’t actually looked at other options.  If I’m cruising in 2020, it will be where I want to go not where it’s cheapest but with meh rooms & itineraries.  
 

I’ll check with my TA but doubt there will be any concessions coming my way.  My room category is very limited & has been sold out since January.  Thanks anyway

[TNcruising02]

4 minutes ago, dandeck said:

Wife & I have been on 60+ cruises.  We love them!  If it is necessary to wear masks, there is simply no way we would even think about going.  Currently have four weeks of B2B scheduled in Jan - Feb.  If there is not a cure or vaccine in place by then, no way we will be sailing.  Hate to be a downer, but without a cure or vaccine there is no way to avoid contagion on a ship.  Another outbreak on a ship, any ship, and the bottom will fall out immediately for all lines.  Therefore, I feel certain a cure will be forthcoming very soon.  The industry cannot survive without it.     

The military is developing a test that can detect the virus in people who contracted it within the last 24 hours.  So, if something like this could be available and easily administered at the time cruising begins, they might be able to test passengers before boarding.  A lot can happen in three months.

[dandeck]

4 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

The military is developing a test that can detect the virus in people who contracted it within the last 24 hours.  So, if something like this could be available and easily administered at the time cruising begins, they might be able to test passengers before boarding.  A lot can happen in three months.

Problem is getting off on the islands, eating, drinking, cabs, tours, shopping...you name it then coming back aboard.  A cure or vaccine is a must for the cruise industry.  Not to mention getting there on airlines, hotel night before, transport to the pier...nothing short of C or V will work.  

[TNcruising02]

7 minutes ago, dandeck said:

Problem is getting off on the islands, eating, drinking, cabs, tours, shopping...you name it then coming back aboard.  A cure or vaccine is a must for the cruise industry.  Not to mention getting there on airlines, hotel night before, transport to the pier...nothing short of C or V will work.  

Testing would greatly reduce the risk of a virus problem on a ship and make the islands much more comfortable with letting a ship dock.  There is nothing that will 100% protect any place from a person having a contagious disease unless people are tested for every contagious disease daily.  There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I don't believe it has to be perfect or nothing.

Edited May 20, 2020 by TNcruising02

[dandeck]

3 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Testing would greatly reduce the risk of a virus problem on a ship and make the islands much more comfortable with letting a ship dock.  There is nothing that will 100% protect any place from a person having a contagious disease unless people are tested for every contagious disease daily.  There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

Oh, I thought we were discussing Covid 19.  Testing for it's contraction in the past 24 hrs is what I was addressing.  It would be useless on a ship that docks about every day and a majority of the passengers are exposed to entirely different people each time.  Would be like a person who was given that test last night in NYC, travels to and has lunch and a crowded tour of Nashville today then moving on for the same in Dallas in the morning.  There would be zero confidence in that test in Dallas and next to none in Nashville.  NYC test for Covid 19 was rendered moot by subsequent travel and stops.  Naturally, cruise lines are desperate.  I think I heard they are going to start back up in August.  I love cruising. However, it is a desperate decision and is likely to be an unavoidable disaster.  I am sure hoping not.  Have multiple weeks scheduled in Jan - Feb, but I think it would take a near miracle to avoid serious issues without a cure.        

[Doggielover68]

2 hours ago, roguebandit said:

Love how compliant Canadians are, that's why you are still under English ruel and not independent, no offense have famly thier.

But why would people who have recovered from the virus have to wear a mask, just saying the numbers are growing. 

My opinion is if you are fearful of catching the virus stay off the ship and let those of us who don't want to live in fear enjoy life.

Oh okay. I'll just stay in my house forever and starve to death because people like you want to live your life like there is no pandemic. And to think if people would have taken this seriously from day 1, life would be back to normal by now. 

 

I was in Japan during Chinese New Year when all of this started. I got sick (with something, probably not Covid) and I wore a mask because that's the accepted practice is in many societies. My travel companion that shared a tiny room with me did not get sick because I was careful not to spread MY germs. It is not fair to expect people to stay home because you don't want to protect others from YOUR germs. So selfish.

 

By the way, recovering doesn't make you immune from reinfection from a mutated strain. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Doggielover68

[roguebandit]

For the last 2 decades I have worked the front lines definding the the fine people of my state frome zoonossis viruses. I have worked in New Orleans after Katrina, and 6 other Diasters in my State and have hundred of hours in training on viruses and how they transment. I also have Presidential Awards in disaster response.What education and training do you have?

 

[TNcruising02]

At this point, people who are fearful or vulnerable can stay home for however long it takes.  The rest of us want to live our lives and take precautions for our health as we see fit.  Selfish is expecting everyone to continue for months on end to stay home and give up well check ups, children's vaccinations, cancer treatments, businesses, jobs, surgeries, and life. Not everyone lives in hot spots like New York.

Nobody is forcing anyone who is scared to leave their house.  But calling people names because they want to live their lives and aren't fearful is a way to try to control people. If you want to stay home, stay home.  That's your choice.  But people are ready to take risks and live their lives.  It's up to each person to assess their risk level.  People are responsible for their own health.  People who are fearful of doing anything until there is a vaccine can just stay home.  When my state has around 300 deaths for 7 million people, I can assess my own risk.

Edited May 21, 2020 by TNcruising02

[TNcruising02]

Some people accept that they are responsible for their own actions and health.  I don't expect other people to behave the way I want them to in order to stay healthy.  That's my responsibility. I'm not afraid to cruise when it opens up.  I really don't want to live my life based on other people's fears.  I wash my hands, eat healthy, exercise, don't smoke, and rarely drink.  I don't depend on anyone else's behavior to keep me healthy nor would I ever want to control them for my own benefit.  I am responsible for myself.  Oh, and I wear a mask while grocery shopping.  Not because I am required to.  Some people do and some don't and it makes no difference to me.

Edited May 21, 2020 by TNcruising02

[Illbcruzn4life]

1 hour ago, TNcruising02 said:

At this point, people who are fearful or vulnerable can stay home for however long it takes.  The rest of us want to live our lives and take precautions for our health as we see fit.  Selfish is expecting everyone to continue for months on end to stay home and give up well check ups, children's vaccinations, cancer treatments, businesses, jobs, surgeries, and life. Not everyone lives in hot spots like New York.

Nobody is forcing anyone who is scared to leave their house.  But calling people names because they want to live their lives and aren't fearful is a way to try to control people. If you want to stay home, stay home.  That's your choice.  But people are ready to take risks and live their lives.  It's up to each person to assess their risk level.  People are responsible for their own health.  People who are fearful of doing anything until there is a vaccine can just stay home.  When my state has around 300 deaths for 7 million people, I can assess my own risk.

 

unfortunately there are over 1100 deaths related to the virus just in our city. It's all relative to what's gone on around you.

[TNcruising02]

3 minutes ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

 

unfortunately there are over 1100 deaths related to the virus just in our city. It's all relative to what's gone on around you.

If I lived in New York, then things would be different.  It sounds like the stay at home orders are needed out there.  I feel bad for the people who live there and are having these horrible experiences.   Every area is different and I can see how people in hard hit areas read posts by people in low risk areas and think they are selfish for being ready to venture out.  We've only had 300 deaths in our entire state.

Edited May 21, 2020 by TNcruising02

[ray98]

12 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

Read the new CDC guidelines 😉

 

The ones that change week to week, many times contradicting themselves?

Edited May 21, 2020 by ray98

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, ray98 said:

 

The ones that change week to week, many times contradicting themselves?

Yup those are changing, a major change in the last couple of days.  They do not know as much as they think, we are all learning as we go here.  Maybe it will give the “experts” cause to work more with the industry instead of the draconian way they are approaching it now.  

[Nic6318]

14 hours ago, skridge said:

I have seen how good Carnival is at stopping people from chair hogging and enforcing dress codes.  Excuse me for if I am skeptical.

 

Hi

 

Those aren't "safety" issues, that are likely government mandated, with the possibility of an industry failing if there are problems. It's a no brainer for the company. Either follow the rules or get of the ship, and as I mentioned before, if the circumstance rises to what may be considered a criminal act wherever you may be, they will be calling the police as well.

 

At least for now, it's not hard to understand, things will be different. 

[skridge]

58 minutes ago, Nic6318 said:

 

Hi

 

Those aren't "safety" issues, that are likely government mandated, with the possibility of an industry failing if there are problems. It's a no brainer for the company. Either follow the rules or get of the ship, and as I mentioned before, if the circumstance rises to what may be considered a criminal act wherever you may be, they will be calling the police as well.

 

At least for now, it's not hard to understand, things will be different. 

This is all a bunch of projection, but walk with me down this path.  These boards have shown as a fact that a large number of people ready to step on a cruise ship today are also totally against mask wearing.   Let's say that under your assumption that the crew is actually going to report the people probably by the hundreds refusing to wear masks.  Do the brigs on the ship have the capacity to hold a hundred people?  Let's say the first stop is Ocho Rios Jamaica.  When you dump a hundred non mask wearers on the dock in Ocho Rios do you think they are going to go quietly.  Do you think there will not be a huge social media and media bonanza.  Is this a good look for Carnival?  I know a lot of people on these boards are open up the ships at all cost and don't live in fear people, and that's fine.  My opinion is that the people in the big meetings at Carnival HQ are going to take a more measured approach than the keyboard commandos on Cruise Critic.  Again this is just my opinion.  I don't see this as doom and gloom I see it as a realistic portrayal in the current circumstances. 

[crewsweeper]

Haven't dragged through 174 posts, but research/data on masks is changing. May or may not be as protective as thought.  In one small lab study, it appears that droplets do seep out to outer side of masks  but don't spray as far.  Not verified by other studies.  But the Czechs have adopted masks.  To paraphrase they say, "my mask protects me from you and you from me."

Probably sage advice.  Could help in flu and common cold transmission. 

But studies are also showing the virus doesn't last as long on surfaces as originally believed; disappears fast in sunlight and surfaces are very minor pathways to transmission.  Doesn't mean don't wipe down surfaces, just means it's a secondary measure.  Also, most human to human transmission of the virus (the major pathway) comes from enclosed spaces with poor ventilation (think open floor offices or indoor dining with air conditioning). So that bodes well for limited or spaced seating in MDRs and specialty venues and the casinos and theaters on board ship.  A bit of spacing on outside venues would help too.

Studies are also finding that children and teens do not catch the virus or get very mild cases and do not transmit it to grandma.

As for Grandma and Grandpa, Grandpa is slightly more at risk but primarily if underlying conditions prevail.  But Grandma isn't out of the woods

As far as OTC treatments go, nothing has worked in all situations.  The recent brouhaha over hydroxychloroquine, ignores the side effects that can lead to heart disease, hair loss, etc. as proven with malaria patients. So best left to your COVID-19 care physician to prescribe vs taking on own. 

For most of us a mask in public and social distancing will work quite well.  For those more at risk, probably safest not to cruise for awhile, even once a vaccine is available.