Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[Fouremco]

Just now, TeeRick said:

The CDC cards are not the answer worldwide.  But I am really not sure what document would suffice.  It has not been invented yet.

Exactly. Celebrity and other lines have a big job ahead of them, assuming that they don't simply ask you if you've been vaccinate and take a positive answer as being "proof". 

[Ken the cruiser]

4 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

The CDC cards are not the answer worldwide.  But I am really not sure what document would suffice.  It has not been invented yet.

I would imagine whatever document you were issued when you got your shot(s), whether it was a paper document or one that was emailed to you or was recorded in some database maintained by the health organization that gave you the shot, regardless of country, would be what I would submit to any organization, to include a cruise line, that required proof before entering their "controlled" space. 

[TeeRick]

3 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I would imagine whatever document you were issued when you got your shot(s), whether it was a paper document or one that was emailed to you or was recorded in some database maintained by the health organization that gave you the shot, regardless of country, would be what I would submit to any organization, to include a cruise line, that required proof before entering their "controlled" space. 

Yes that is clearly all you can do at this point. But as far as I know they have not outlined what they require.  And do you submit an electronic copy of your vaccine card before your trip?  ie, two weeks before boarding?

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes that is clearly all you can do at this point. But as far as I know they have not outlined what they require.  And do you submit an electronic copy of your vaccine card before your trip?  ie, two weeks before boarding?

The two weeks before boarding refers to the vaccination date, not to when you must provide proof.

[TeeRick]

5 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

The two weeks before boarding refers to the vaccination date, not to when you must provide proof.

Here is the wording on Celebrity's site.  I would tend to agree with your interpretation but it is worded poorly I think.

 

Adult guests and crew members must have proof of full vaccination administered two weeks prior to embark.

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Here is the wording on Celebrity's site.  I would tend to agree with your interpretation but it is worded poorly I think.

 

Adult guests and crew members must have proof of full vaccination administered two weeks prior to embark.

 

I would have interpreted that as the vaccine needed to be administered two weeks before embark. Which probably should say "at least two weeks". Time to start proofreading the web page...

[D C]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

While most US residents received them with their vaccinations, there are numerous posts on CC by people who didn't receive a card. Then there's the entire rest of the world. Bottom line is that CDC cards alone aren't the answer to the question of what will constitute proof of vaccination. 

To the extent that states receive and log vaccinations, that information should be available in some sort of verified form.

 

Short of that, I've said before they could require an affirmation signed before a notary who asks for an attestation of the accuracy of the contents of the document.  Not exactly a legal penalty if they lie, but most people wouldn't know or think that. 

[Mac7881]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Are you asking in terms of entry into the US?  It is not approved (yet) in the USA because it's US phase 3 clinical study results have not been fully submitted to the FDA for emergency review in the same way as Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.  AZ states that they are progressing in doing so.  The worldwide clinical studies and post-approval data in countries such as the UK show effectiveness.  And the US is shipping excess AZ vaccine to Canada, Mexico and now India.  So I would think it to be rather strange if you are vaccinated with it in Canada but are not considered vaccinated in the US.  Now if you were vaccinated with one of the less effective vaccines from China then that might be a whole different story for entry into the US.

Yes and thank you

 

[TeeRick]

1 minute ago, D C said:

To the extent that states receive and log vaccinations, that information should be available in some sort of verified form.

 

Short of that, I've said before they could require an affirmation signed before a notary who asks for an attestation of the accuracy of the contents of the document.  Not exactly a legal penalty if they lie, but most people wouldn't know or think that. 

Another way to go is to put some type of significant financial penalty in place if caught falsifying vaccine records.  They could do random checks on vaccine batch numbers and names perhaps.

[mayleeman]

3 minutes ago, D C said:

Short of that, I've said before they could require an affirmation signed before a notary who asks for an attestation of the accuracy of the contents of the document.  Not exactly a legal penalty if they lie, but most people wouldn't know or think that.

 

I sure wish an oath would help people tell the truth. As a judge, I learned otherwise. So I would tell witnesses before the oath that I knew it didn't guarantee truthfulness, but it would allow a federal prosecutor to go for 5 years in prison for false swearing rather than 1 year for a false unsworn statement in a federal proceeding.

 

Oaths are not the answer.

 

I sure wish the CLIA would address this with an electronic database that lines could reference when for their pax. You could submit your docs once rather than scrambling each cruise.

[larry_s_taco]

30 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I would imagine whatever document you were issued when you got your shot(s), whether it was a paper document or one that was emailed to you or was recorded in some database maintained by the health organization that gave you the shot, regardless of country, would be what I would submit to any organization, to include a cruise line, that required proof before entering their "controlled" space. 

Indiana maintains an immunization data base. I contacted them and received a pin number that allowed me to printout my official state immunization record. It included every immunization that I've ever taken. My understanding is that every state has some form of database like this. I'm sailing on June 12th out of St Maarten. All I've heard from Celebrity was that I needed my CDC card as proof, but I got my record just as a backup.

[D C]

18 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

 

I sure wish an oath would help people tell the truth. As a judge, I learned otherwise. So I would tell witnesses before the oath that I knew it didn't guarantee truthfulness, but it would allow a federal prosecutor to go for 5 years in prison for false swearing rather than 1 year for a false unsworn statement in a federal proceeding.

 

Oaths are not the answer.

 

I sure wish the CLIA would address this with an electronic database that lines could reference when for their pax. You could submit your docs once rather than scrambling each cruise.

This is a cruise ship, not a trial though.

What percentage of people are planning to fake vaccination proof to begin with?  Of those, what percentage are going to give an attestation and still fake proof?  Is that number a small enough percent to not matter in terms of the risk and number of actually-vaccinated people on a ship?  Especially if the penalty is being banned for life if you lie (which it should be).

 

Frankly, vaccination cards alone are probably sufficient. 

 

 

[D C]

49 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Here is the wording on Celebrity's site.  I would tend to agree with your interpretation but it is worded poorly I think.

 

Adult guests and crew members must have proof of full vaccination administered two weeks prior to embark.

Does it hurt when they administer the proof of vaccination? 😲

[D C]

29 minutes ago, larry_s_taco said:

Indiana maintains an immunization data base. I contacted them and received a pin number that allowed me to printout my official state immunization record. It included every immunization that I've ever taken. My understanding is that every state has some form of database like this. I'm sailing on June 12th out of St Maarten. All I've heard from Celebrity was that I needed my CDC card as proof, but I got my record just as a backup.

Michigan only requires the reporting of vaccines given to those <21.   I was quite surprised when my covid jab paperwork mentioned absolutely nothing about reporting to the state, but I received a text message from the State of Michigan with a reminder to schedule my 2nd jab.  

[wrk2cruise]

Here is what's on the FAQ for the Millie sailings starting in June

 

At this time, we are requiring guests 18 years and older to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19. Each guest must submit proof of full vaccination no later than boarding day, in the form of the original vaccination record document issued by either (1) the country’s health authority that administered the vaccination (e.g., U.S. CDC's Vaccination Record Card) or (2) the guest's medical provider that administered the vaccination. Electronic vaccination records will only be accepted for residents of those countries where electronic documentation is the standard issued form (e.g., a unique QR code). The vaccination record submitted to Celebrity Cruises must show that the guest is fully vaccinated. This means that the guest has completed the full cycle of required doses for the vaccine administered (e.g., received the second dose in a two-dose series), and that the guest has received the final dose at least 14 days before sailing.

[K.T.B.]

7 minutes ago, D C said:

Does it hurt when they administer the proof of vaccination? 😲

 

Like a son of a....

 

[Ken the cruiser]

38 minutes ago, larry_s_taco said:

Indiana maintains an immunization data base. I contacted them and received a pin number that allowed me to printout my official state immunization record. It included every immunization that I've ever taken. My understanding is that every state has some form of database like this. I'm sailing on June 12th out of St Maarten. All I've heard from Celebrity was that I needed my CDC card as proof, but I got my record just as a backup.

That's good to hear. Something tells me, though, Alabama might be a little bit behind the times when it comes managing a statewide immunization database for all of its citizens. But, maybe another Alabamian reading this might know different.

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Here is the wording on Celebrity's site.  I would tend to agree with your interpretation but it is worded poorly I think.

 

Adult guests and crew members must have proof of full vaccination administered two weeks prior to embark.

 

1 hour ago, markeb said:

 

I would have interpreted that as the vaccine needed to be administered two weeks before embark. Which probably should say "at least two weeks". Time to start proofreading the web page...

Indeed. While most of the pages on the website could do with some proof reading, this page is particularly bad.

[4774Papa]

1 hour ago, D C said:

This is a cruise ship, not a trial though.

What percentage of people are planning to fake vaccination proof to begin with?  Of those, what percentage are going to give an attestation and still fake proof?  Is that number a small enough percent to not matter in terms of the risk and number of actually-vaccinated people on a ship?  Especially if the penalty is being banned for life if you lie (which it should be).

 

Frankly, vaccination cards alone are probably sufficient. 

 

 

We have booked a tour of Iceland with Nordic Visitor and told that our CDC vaccination cards are sufficient for entry into the country as well as a negative COVID19 taken at the airport upon entry.

[Ken the cruiser]

16 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

 

@Syracusefan44posted this on another thread a few minutes ago and I thought it was "vaccine" newsworthy enough to post it here as well. The article hasn't been posted this evening in the Miami Herald yet, but here's an advance of the hopeful breaking news. 

 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/taydolven/status/1387590148615987204

 

Update: Looks like USATODAY just released the story as well.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2021/04/28/cdc-cruises-could-restart-july/4883450001/

 

Editorial note: What a great piece of news to lead off page 200 on this thread!! 

Since it was Taylor Dolven's tweet I posted last night that broke the news about the CDC letter to the cruise lines, I thought it was only fair that I post his ensuing Miami Herald article. One interesting note he added that I hadn't seen in any other related articles was this:

 

PortMiami director Juan Kuryla said Wednesday he anticipates turning in Miami's agreements with cruise companies to the CDC next week. In a statement, Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said she's been encouraged by the joint meetings with the CDC this month.

 

Thanks to vaccinations, cruises could restart from South Florida in July, CDC says (msn.com)

 

From my optimistic untrained eye this looks like possibly another step closer to restricted cruises in July with regards to the cruise lines complying with some of the more detailed Phase 2A protocol port requirements, at least for those with Port Miami.

 

[jgmorgan]

Thanks for sharing Ken.  Another step closer indeed.

 

I'm sure the pessimistic untrained eyes will be along soon.🙂

[D C]

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

Here is what's on the FAQ for the Millie sailings starting in June

 

At this time, we are requiring guests 18 years and older to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19. Each guest must submit proof of full vaccination no later than boarding day, in the form of the original vaccination record document issued by either (1) the country’s health authority that administered the vaccination (e.g., U.S. CDC's Vaccination Record Card) or (2) the guest's medical provider that administered the vaccination. Electronic vaccination records will only be accepted for residents of those countries where electronic documentation is the standard issued form (e.g., a unique QR code). The vaccination record submitted to Celebrity Cruises must show that the guest is fully vaccinated. This means that the guest has completed the full cycle of required doses for the vaccine administered (e.g., received the second dose in a two-dose series), and that the guest has received the final dose at least 14 days before sailing.

Interesting.  So "unrecognised" electronic records are not accepted.   

 

 

[D C]

22 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Since it was Taylor Dolven's tweet I posted last night that broke the news about the CDC letter to the cruise lines, I thought it was only fair that I post his ensuing Miami Herald article. One interesting note he added that I hadn't seen in any other related articles was this:

 

PortMiami director Juan Kuryla said Wednesday he anticipates turning in Miami's agreements with cruise companies to the CDC next week. In a statement, Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said she's been encouraged by the joint meetings with the CDC this month.

 

Thanks to vaccinations, cruises could restart from South Florida in July, CDC says (msn.com)

 

From my optimistic untrained eye this looks like possibly another step closer to restricted cruises in July with regards to the cruise lines complying with some of the more detailed Phase 2A protocol port requirements, at least for those with Port Miami.

 

Wouldn't you think that all of the Florida cruise ports would be working together towards common content?

[Ken the cruiser]

Here's another update from the CDC which clarifies some additional changes to the CSO, in the areas of testing, port agreements and quarantining. 

 

CDC Clarifies Letter to Cruise Lines - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

[Ken the cruiser]

6 minutes ago, D C said:

Wouldn't you think that all of the Florida cruise ports would be working together towards common content?

Here's what the CDC has changed in the CSO regarding Port Agreements. I think it addresses your question.

 

Port Agreements: CDC clarified that cruise ship operators may enter into a multi-port agreement (as opposed to a single port agreement) provided that relevant port and local health authorities are signatories to the agreement. Such multi-port agreements may be particularly suitable if one port has limited medical or housing capacity and a nearby port is able to supplement these capacities.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Ken the cruiser