Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[CroozFanatic]

2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I would imagine whatever document you were issued when you got your shot(s), whether it was a paper document or one that was emailed to you or was recorded in some database maintained by the health organization that gave you the shot, regardless of country, would be what I would submit to any organization, to include a cruise line, that required proof before entering their "controlled" space. 

 

Just like the entire US public school system. Seems to be working there.

[larry_s_taco]

This Florida bill is working its way through. I wonder if it will pass, and if so, how will it affect the cruiselines?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-house-passes-bill-banning-businesses-from-requiring-covid-vaccine-passports/2439735/%3famp

[Ken the cruiser]

20 minutes ago, larry_s_taco said:

This Florida bill is working its way through. I wonder if it will pass, and if so, how will it affect the cruiselines?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-house-passes-bill-banning-businesses-from-requiring-covid-vaccine-passports/2439735/%3famp

Something tells me whatever happens, the cruise lines will be allowed to continue along the path both the CDC and they have currently agreed to, especially when it comes to vaccination requirements. But, then again, we're over here in the peanut gallery, so what do I know.

[D C]

33 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Here's what the CDC has changed in the CSO regarding Port Agreements. I think it addresses your question.

 

Port Agreements: CDC clarified that cruise ship operators may enter into a multi-port agreement (as opposed to a single port agreement) provided that relevant port and local health authorities are signatories to the agreement. Such multi-port agreements may be particularly suitable if one port has limited medical or housing capacity and a nearby port is able to supplement these capacities.

 

That makes sense, though I wonder where it would apply.

 

In Florida, if the ports all submit identical homework assignments, it prevents the CDC from cherry picking and coming back to them saying "Well.... we like section A from Tampa, and section B from Miami, and section C from Everglades..." 

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, D C said:

That makes sense, though I wonder where it would apply.

 

In Florida, if the ports all submit identical homework assignments, it prevents the CDC from cherry picking and coming back to them saying "Well.... we like section A from Tampa, and section B from Miami, and section C from Everglades..." 

I was thinking more about Ft Lauderdale and Miami, with them being so close together, where a unique medical service provider located between the ports could be contracted to provide their services to applicable ships in both ports? But it's just a guess.

 

I believe this is the wording, or something close to it.

 

Multi-port agreements are permissible, so if one port has limited medical/housing capacity, a nearby port would be able to supplement. The state health authority must sign off on such an arrangement.

 

CDC offers twopathways to US cruising, depending on vaccination (seatrade-cruise.com)

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[NMTraveller]

Hip Hip Hooray.  Cruising will start once again.

Edited April 29, 2021 by NMTraveller

[morechances]

3 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Something tells me whatever happens, the cruise lines will be allowed to continue along the path both the CDC and they have currently agreed to, especially when it comes to vaccination requirements. But, then again, we're over here in the peanut gallery, so what do I know.

Does it really matter?

The CDC, and the Florida governor have ZERO control over what other countries require for a ship to enter their ports.

The ships will need to comply with each and every country that they enter. 

[DSJ28]

I wonder how the 95% of passengers vaccinated is calculated.  Is it 95% of the maximum capacity?  Or 98% of actual capacity?  
 

What happens if more than 5% of the passengers on a particular voyage aren't vaccinated? Do enter a lottery at the port to see who gets onboard? 

 

 

 

[cscurlock]

1 hour ago, morechances said:

Does it really matter?

The CDC, and the Florida governor have ZERO control over what other countries require for a ship to enter their ports.

The ships will need to comply with each and every country that they enter. 

I agree.  I think at some point when the cruise ships can't leave Florida ports because of any anti vaccination bills the cruise lines will just port in other states that will accept proof of vaccination.  I think at that point all those bills/laws will just go away.  Especially when businesses who rely on them watch money go to other states.  I think people forget its not just the US all these other countries will have these vaccination requirements as well.  

I even think the 95% is bad but children aren't 100% approved below 16 so I understand they might fit into that 5%.

People also need to understand if there is an outbreak and now none of the ports you were planning to visit will let the ship disembark the cruise is pretty much ruined at that point or they have to return to port.   I mean Jamaica last year was so scared someone had a cold that they wouldn't let the ship disembark. So getting as many people vaccinated is key to preventing that.  

 

[Ken the cruiser]

3 hours ago, morechances said:

Does it really matter?

The CDC, and the Florida governor have ZERO control over what other countries require for a ship to enter their ports.

The ships will need to comply with each and every country that they enter. 

 

7 hours ago, larry_s_taco said:

This Florida bill is working its way through. I wonder if it will pass, and if so, how will it affect the cruiselines?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-house-passes-bill-banning-businesses-from-requiring-covid-vaccine-passports/2439735/%3famp

Unfortunately, as @morechancessuggested, this brings up an interesting question concerning the pending Florida no vaccine passport law being considered. If one or more ports scheduled to be visited on a particular cruise only allowed vaccinated passengers to disembark while in port, would the applicable cruise line then be allowed to verify all passengers had a COVID vaccine, much like when cruise ships go to ports along the Amazon River where Brazil requires all passengers have received a yellow fever vaccine?

[D C]

8 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

 

Unfortunately, as @morechancessuggested, this brings up an interesting question concerning the pending Florida no vaccine passport law being considered. If one or more ports scheduled to be visited on a particular cruise only allowed vaccinated passengers to disembark while in port, would the applicable cruise line then be allowed to verify all passengers had a COVID vaccine, much like when cruise ships go to ports along the Amazon River where Brazil requires all passengers have received a yellow fever vaccine?

 

Does the verbiage of the bill suggest that a CDC vaccination card is a "passport" and is somehow illegal to present?

 

What if I live outside of Florida and submit a scan of my card to Celebrity?  I should be unencumbered by the law, I would expect.

 

[4774Papa]

17 hours ago, larry_s_taco said:

This Florida bill is working its way through. I wonder if it will pass, and if so, how will it affect the cruiselines?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-house-passes-bill-banning-businesses-from-requiring-covid-vaccine-passports/2439735/%3famp

Even if it passes, the cruise lines could require either proof of full vaccination or proof of antibodies from having the virus.

[Ken the cruiser]

2 hours ago, D C said:

Does the verbiage of the bill suggest that a CDC vaccination card is a "passport" and is somehow illegal to present?

 

What if I live outside of Florida and submit a scan of my card to Celebrity?  I should be unencumbered by the law, I would expect.

 

These are good questions which I'm sure the cruise lines that want to embrace the CDC new guidance with regards to bypassing Phase 2B test cruises as well as provide a safe cruising environment for their passengers and crew, will be asking. We're keeping a positive outlook that this too shall pass, but it will be interesting to see how this all ends.

 

I'm sure the ports in other nearby states, such as Mobile, New Orleans, Charleston and Savanah, are also interested to hear as I would imagine they would have no problem allowing some of the cruise lines to port their ships at their docks.

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

Here is what's on the FAQ for the Millie sailings starting in June

 

At this time, we are requiring guests 18 years and older to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19. Each guest must submit proof of full vaccination no later than boarding day, in the form of the original vaccination record document issued by either (1) the country’s health authority that administered the vaccination (e.g., U.S. CDC's Vaccination Record Card) or (2) the guest's medical provider that administered the vaccination. Electronic vaccination records will only be accepted for residents of those countries where electronic documentation is the standard issued form (e.g., a unique QR code). The vaccination record submitted to Celebrity Cruises must show that the guest is fully vaccinated. This means that the guest has completed the full cycle of required doses for the vaccine administered (e.g., received the second dose in a two-dose series), and that the guest has received the final dose at least 14 days before sailing.

Thank you for posting this information.  Very helpful.

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, DSJ28 said:

I wonder how the 95% of passengers vaccinated is calculated.  Is it 95% of the maximum capacity?  Or 98% of actual capacity?  
 

What happens if more than 5% of the passengers on a particular voyage aren't vaccinated? Do enter a lottery at the port to see who gets onboard? 

 

 

 

This is probably the wiggle room for allowing kids who do not yet qualify for a vaccine for their age group.  

[mayleeman]

It will be interesting when businesses file for injunctions against the vax-requirement ban. I think it would be granted because there is no legitimate purpose in banning an attempt to keep customers safe. I can see the cruiselines trying to find a careful path supporting such a suit while not joining in so as to avoid angering His Excellency The Guv.

[GerScot]

22 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

Here is what's on the FAQ for the Millie sailings starting in June

 

At this time, we are requiring guests 18 years and older to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19. Each guest must submit proof of full vaccination no later than boarding day, in the form of the original vaccination record document issued by either (1) the country’s health authority that administered the vaccination (e.g., U.S. CDC's Vaccination Record Card) or (2) the guest's medical provider that administered the vaccination. Electronic vaccination records will only be accepted for residents of those countries where electronic documentation is the standard issued form (e.g., a unique QR code). The vaccination record submitted to Celebrity Cruises must show that the guest is fully vaccinated. This means that the guest has completed the full cycle of required doses for the vaccine administered (e.g., received the second dose in a two-dose series), and that the guest has received the final dose at least 14 days before sailing.

Is there  a way to submit your record "prior to boarding day"?  Would hate to get to the port only to find the record is not acceptable.

[Homosassa]

For those of you worrying about that proposed Florida bill, I am copying the pertinent parts of another post I made on the subject.

 

" I read the proposed bill. It covers the formation of a public health emergency plan. A section of the bill includes the requirement when necessary to protect public health that testing for a disease, quarantine and vaccination be mandatory.

 

The section that the OP refers to has exactly the same loophole that the executive order has concerning the requirement of Covid 19 disease status and vaccination. 

 

If such information is a federal or state requirement, then it the requiring of the information is mandatory.  

 

To put it in cruise terms, if the CDC comes to an agreement with a cruise line where vaccination is a requirement for cruising, then that agreement supersedes any posturing by the state of Florida on forbidding the information to conduct business.

 

Here is the applicable text from the proposed bill:

 

381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.—  (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include  any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or  customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 817 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry  upon, or service from the business' operations in this state.  This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (2) A governmental entity, as defined in s. 768.38, may not require any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or  post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the governmental entity's operations in this state

This subsection does not otherwise restrict governmental entities from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (3) An educational institution, as defined in s. 768.38, 830 may not require students or residents to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection  recovery for attendance or enrollment, or to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the educational institution in this  state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict educational  institutions from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (4) A violation of this section may result in a fine imposed by the department, not to exceed $5,000 per violation.(5) This section does not apply to a health care provider  as defined in s. 768.38; a provider licensed or certified under  s. 393.17, part III of chapter 401, or part IV of chapter 468; or a provider with an active health care clinic exemption under 843 s. 400.9935."

[Homosassa]

For anyone worrying that the proof of vaccination issued to you at the time of your shot (i.e.;, CDC card) is the vaccination passport that the governor of Florida is yipping about, it is not.

 

The executive order that was first signed on the subject deals solely with a vaccination passport issued by a governmental agency (think federal).

 

The executive order prohibits any Florida state agency from providing information to a third party for the issuance of the passport. It clearly states individuals can obtain their information from Florida agencies and the individuals can provided the information to a third party.

 

As far as no business in Florida being allowed to require vaccination information before providing service, that is neatly offset by a statement that this prohibition does not prevent a business from complying with any federal or state mandate in the protection of public health.

[hcat]

Vaccine thread..but did not know where to post.  Tampa Intl airport  test site ,( rapid and other, for a fee)  is closing shop in about a week.  So one less option for getting a pre cruise or pre flight Covid testm

 

Reason given was lack of interest.

[Ken the cruiser]

 

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

For those of you worrying about that proposed Florida bill, I am copying the pertinent parts of another post I made on the subject.

 

" I read the proposed bill. It covers the formation of a public health emergency plan. A section of the bill includes the requirement when necessary to protect public health that testing for a disease, quarantine and vaccination be mandatory.

 

The section that the OP refers to has exactly the same loophole that the executive order has concerning the requirement of Covid 19 disease status and vaccination. 

 

If such information is a federal or state requirement, then it the requiring of the information is mandatory.  

 

To put it in cruise terms, if the CDC comes to an agreement with a cruise line where vaccination is a requirement for cruising, then that agreement supersedes any posturing by the state of Florida on forbidding the information to conduct business.

 

Here is the applicable text from the proposed bill:

 

381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.—  (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include  any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or  customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 817 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry  upon, or service from the business' operations in this state.  This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (2) A governmental entity, as defined in s. 768.38, may not require any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or  post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the governmental entity's operations in this state

This subsection does not otherwise restrict governmental entities from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (3) An educational institution, as defined in s. 768.38, 830 may not require students or residents to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection  recovery for attendance or enrollment, or to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the educational institution in this  state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict educational  institutions from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (4) A violation of this section may result in a fine imposed by the department, not to exceed $5,000 per violation.(5) This section does not apply to a health care provider  as defined in s. 768.38; a provider licensed or certified under  s. 393.17, part III of chapter 401, or part IV of chapter 468; or a provider with an active health care clinic exemption under 843 s. 400.9935."

Thanks for the detailed explanation. We can all now get back to being excited about possibly going on a cruise as early as mid July if all goes well! 😎

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

If such information is a federal or state requirement, then it the requiring of the information is mandatory.  

 

To put it in cruise terms, if the CDC comes to an agreement with a cruise line where vaccination is a requirement for cruising, then that agreement supersedes any posturing by the state of Florida on forbidding the information to conduct business.

 

Just to follow up so I'm clear with what you are suggesting.

 

Since the CDC updated their CSO guidance Thursday evening via a letter to the cruise lines with regards, in part, to bypassing simulated cruises if they can prove 95% of passengers and 98% of crew have been fully vaccinated, this new law when signed by the governor will not apply to the applicable cruise lines. Do I have that correct?

 

[hcat]

Wonder what happens when the date of the 2nd shot is  before  the 6 month suggested effectiveness dates ?

[Fouremco]

5 minutes ago, hcat said:

Wonder what happens when the date of the 2nd shot is  before  the 6 month suggested effectiveness dates ?

For all vaccines requiring two shots, the date of the 2nd shot is well within six months. In most cases, two to three weeks, although Canada and a number of other locations have stretched it out up to four months. But never over six months. And AFAIK, no vaccine manufacturer has suggested a 6-month effectiveness date for their product. Rather, they have noted that the effectiveness is at least six months.

[Fouremco]

Today's email included an invitation from Holland America to participate in a survey with respect to health and safety measures. Most of the questions were based on whether you would be less likely, neutral, or more likely to cruise if ... Vaccinations came through as the major topic of interest, for crew, adult passengers and for children. I don't know how much of an impact the survey results will have on the future direction taken by HAL, but it was a pleasant surprise to see them reaching out for input. I don't recall Celebrity having solicited customers' views on health and safety measures to be implemented at restart.

 

Dear Fouremco, As we continue to navigate through the pandemic, we are encouraged by signs of progress and look forward to a measured return to travel. During this time, we have been regularly evaluating the health and safety policies we may implement upon our return to sailing. We would like to hear your thoughts on some of the ideas under discussion.  Please click the link below to participate in a brief survey.

TAKE THE SURVEY

Sincerely, Holland America Line