Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[mimbecky]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

mimbecky,

Here is an article that speaks to the issue of side effects after the vaccine shot.  Many people do not get anything at all but perhaps a sore arm.  Some are worried if they don't get side effects!

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/27/990992425/you-dont-have-to-suffer-to-benefit-from-covid-vaccination-but-some-prefer-it

Thanks.  Still no speculation on response to a booster.  If first shot nothing, second shot a lot, what will happen with a third? M

[Ken the cruiser]

 

On 4/23/2021 at 4:42 PM, TrulyBlonde said:

If you jog thru town or ride a bike you must wear a mask. They just passed it again until June sometime. Try hiking or jogging at 8500 ft. wearing your mask LOL!

The penalties for not complying with this order are the following:

· A fine of $50 for the first offense

· A fine of $250 for the second offense

· For all subsequent offenses, a mandatory court appearance and a fine of up to $2,650 and/or a sentence of up to 1 year in prison

CDC just updated their outdoor mask rules and I would think "skiing" would also fall into the outdoor category which includes walking, hiking, biking and running category.

 

People who are fully vaccinated against the Covid-19 virus don’t need to wear masks when walking, hiking, biking, running alone or gathering in small groups outside, federal health officials said, taking a major step to ease pandemic restrictions while encouraging more people to get shots.

The same applies to dining at a restaurant outside, and to small outdoor gatherings that include some unvaccinated people, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday.

 

CDC Eases Mask Guidelines for Vaccinated People Outdoors (msn.com)

[DSJ28]

The CDC guidelines seem to indicate all indoor and outdoor activities are safe for fully vaccinated people (some with masking needed, some with no masking needed). Am I understanding this correctly? If so, doesn't that mean cruising for fully vaccinated people around other fully vaccinated people is safe and can move forward? 

324153_choosingSaferActivities11.pdf

[K.T.B.]

19 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

 

CDC just updated their outdoor mask rules and I would think "skiing" would also fall into the outdoor category which includes walking, hiking, biking and running category.

 

People who are fully vaccinated against the Covid-19 virus don’t need to wear masks when walking, hiking, biking, running alone or gathering in small groups outside, federal health officials said, taking a major step to ease pandemic restrictions while encouraging more people to get shots.

The same applies to dining at a restaurant outside, and to small outdoor gatherings that include some unvaccinated people, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday.

 

CDC Eases Mask Guidelines for Vaccinated People Outdoors (msn.com)

 

IMO, just a another reason to make sure cruise only have fully vaccinated people on board, crew and passengers!

 

Here's the new guidelines:

 

 

[K.T.B.]

4 minutes ago, DSJ28 said:

The CDC guidelines seem to indicate all indoor and outdoor activities are safe for fully vaccinated people (some with masking needed, some with no masking needed). Am I understanding this correctly? If so, doesn't that mean cruising for fully vaccinated people around other fully vaccinated people is safe and can move forward? 

324153_choosingSaferActivities11.pdf 794.1 kB · 1 download

 

One would think.........   These new guidelines kinda neuter the need for the CSO

[TeeRick]

3 hours ago, mimbecky said:

Thanks.  Still no speculation on response to a booster.  If first shot nothing, second shot a lot, what will happen with a third? M

Third time's a charm?😀

[TeeRick]

24 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

One would think.........   These new guidelines kinda neuter the need for the CSO

So looking at the full chart, fully vaccinated people can resume all indoor and outdoor activities but for some a mask is still recommended.  Yes they will now have to address cruising on fully vaccinated ships.   

[terrydtx]

50 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

 

CDC just updated their outdoor mask rules and I would think "skiing" would also fall into the outdoor category which includes walking, hiking, biking and running category.

 

People who are fully vaccinated against the Covid-19 virus don’t need to wear masks when walking, hiking, biking, running alone or gathering in small groups outside, federal health officials said, taking a major step to ease pandemic restrictions while encouraging more people to get shots.

The same applies to dining at a restaurant outside, and to small outdoor gatherings that include some unvaccinated people, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday.

 

CDC Eases Mask Guidelines for Vaccinated People Outdoors (msn.com)

I got news for the CDC, here in Texas masks have NEVER been mandated for outside activities  in the fresh air like, hiking, walking, driving a car, bike riding and exercising. In fact no mask mandates are currently in force in Texas. This just proves how out of touch the CDC is in this pandemic. Being vaccinated has nothing to do with the no mask mandates in my Texas either.

Edited April 27, 2021 by terrydtx

[TrulyBlonde]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

 

CDC just updated their outdoor mask rules and I would think "skiing" would also fall into the outdoor category which includes walking, hiking, biking and running category.

 

People who are fully vaccinated against the Covid-19 virus don’t need to wear masks when walking, hiking, biking, running alone or gathering in small groups outside, federal health officials said, taking a major step to ease pandemic restrictions while encouraging more people to get shots.

The same applies to dining at a restaurant outside, and to small outdoor gatherings that include some unvaccinated people, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday.

 

CDC Eases Mask Guidelines for Vaccinated People Outdoors (msn.com)

The mountain closed this weekend but we still can hike etc. Lots of outdoor activities where I live. Now it will be up to our County to change their rules. Should be interesting. Will keep you posted. 🙂

[K.T.B.]

32 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

So looking at the full chart, fully vaccinated people can resume all indoor and outdoor activities but for some a mask is still recommended.  Yes they will now have to address cruising on fully vaccinated ships.   

 

The CDC should now allow the ships to do test cruises as long all the passengers and crew are vaccinated.  That new guideline indicates that, according to the CDC, it would perfectly safe to do so.

 

I wonder how long until the lines request that.

[cruise kitty]

5 hours ago, mimbecky said:

Thanks.  Still no speculation on response to a booster.  If first shot nothing, second shot a lot, what will happen with a third? M

My husband had only a slightly sore arm after his 3rd shot (booster)  Son in law was the same for 3rd shot....  nothing like the reaction to  2nd shot for both... (this is Pfizer)

[nocl]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

So looking at the full chart, fully vaccinated people can resume all indoor and outdoor activities but for some a mask is still recommended.  Yes they will now have to address cruising on fully vaccinated ships.   

Maybe if the cruise lines would actually submit a plan that defines the cruise line protocols including fully vaccinated than maybe the CDC might just approve them to sail under the CSO.  Which would then require that the cruise lines must follow the protocols including the fully vaccinated requirement without exception and without ability for the cruise line to drop the requirement without approval.

 

Sailing outside of the CSO basically means that fully vaccinated would mean however the cruise lines wish to define it, and they could change the requirement pretty much any time.  Look how vague they are on their Caribbean cruises on exactly what the protocols will be.

 

 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

The CDC should now allow the ships to do test cruises as long all the passengers and crew are vaccinated.  That new guideline indicates that, according to the CDC, it would perfectly safe to do so.

 

I wonder how long until the lines request that.

They would have to submit their detailed plan for review and approval.  Not just a request.

 

Also keep in mind that the CDC recommendations are domestic US, cruises are by their very nature international.  You will note that the testing for flights into the US, mask requirements, etc have not changed for either vaccinated or unvaccinated.

[mayleeman]

3 hours ago, terrydtx said:

I got news for the CDC, here in Texas masks have NEVER been mandated for outside activities  in the fresh air like, hiking, walking, driving a car, bike riding and exercising. In fact no mask mandates are currently in force in Texas. This just proves how out of touch the CDC is in this pandemic. Being vaccinated has nothing to do with the no mask mandates in my Texas either.

Well, golly, all those scientists in Texas making public policy! And proving the CDC (which issues guidance for safest practices, not mandates) wrong exactly how?

Edited April 27, 2021 by mayleeman

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

Sailing outside of the CSO basically means that fully vaccinated would mean however the cruise lines wish to define it, and they could change the requirement pretty much any time.  Look how vague they are on their Caribbean cruises on exactly what the protocols will be.

@nocl, I trust your opinion, but I'll bite. What's so vague about the protocols from a Celebrity passenger's perspective. Seems pretty clear to me. What Celebrity documents are you privy to that may say something different?

 

1. Here are their latest protocols posted on their webpage.

 

Health & Safety Protocols for Sailings | Celebrity Cruises

 

2. Here are the additional protocols associated with the St Maarten cruises.

 

Travel Requirements for Cruise from St Maarten | Celebrity Cruises

 

3. I've also included the Healthy Sail Panel Recommendations which they reference.

 

Healthy Sail Panel Full Recommendations (royalcaribbean.com)

 

BTW I only care about what Celebrity is proposing and could care less what NCLH or Carnival is proposing.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[nocl]

34 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

@nocl, I trust your opinion, but I'll bite. What's so vague about the protocols from a Celebrity passenger's perspective. Seems pretty clear to me. What Celebrity documents are you privy to that may say something different?

 

1. Here are their latest protocols posted on their webpage.

 

Health & Safety Protocols for Sailings | Celebrity Cruises

 

2. Here are the additional protocols associated with the St Maarten cruises.

 

Travel Requirements for Cruise from St Maarten | Celebrity Cruises

 

3. I've also included the Healthy Sail Panel Recommendations which they reference.

 

Healthy Sail Panel Full Recommendations (royalcaribbean.com)

 

BTW I only care about what Celebrity is proposing and could care less what NCLH or Carnival is proposing.

I seem to recall that after Celebrity announced the fully vaccinated requirement there was push back and the parent company sent out a statement that it was only for the first few cruises.

 

When they started selling the cruises Celebrity said balconies only, now they are selling inside and ocean view as well. So what exactly is their number of passengers for these cruises. They only say reduced, but do not say how much. There is also a little comment about subject to change.

 

They stated that at some case level a cruise might be cut short and return to port but nowhere does it say what that case level is.

 

just a couple of high level examples.

 

 

So what is the exact situation for your cruise and are you certain that their protocols will not change between now and then?

[Covepointcruiser]

DH and I are fully vaccinated with Moderna.   There has been no mention of the need for a Booster shot yet.   No one in Maryland is getting a third dose.   Has California received different guidance?

 

 

[markeb]

11 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

DH and I are fully vaccinated with Moderna.   There has been no mention of the need for a Booster shot yet.   No one in Maryland is getting a third dose.   Has California received different guidance?

 

 

I believe they’re in a clinical trial. This arm is looking at the need for and response to a third dose. 

[Covepointcruiser]

My sister is a physician in Pennsylvania.   She said there was no need for a booster as your immunity will be strong for six months.   It would be good if they let us get a different vaccine if a booster is needed, Pfizer since we received Moderna.

[Fouremco]

10 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

  It would be good if they let us get a different vaccine if a booster is needed, Pfizer since we received Moderna.

Why would you prefer mixing your vaccines rather than sticking with whatever vaccine you have? I've not read anything saying that doing so would giver greater protection, but neither have I read anything saying that it's a bad idea.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Fouremco

[hcat]

Glad CDC is easing up on its mask recs for outdoors, esp if vaccinated.  Most folks saw no need for it anyhow......impedes breathing and keeps out fresh air..esp if wandering alone in nature, gardening, etc.

 

Guess CDC  did not mind giving up a small slice of their power, as folks began to challenge the reasoning.

[Ken the cruiser]

38 minutes ago, nocl said:

I seem to recall that after Celebrity announced the fully vaccinated requirement there was push back and the parent company sent out a statement that it was only for the first few cruises.

 

When they started selling the cruises Celebrity said balconies only, now they are selling inside and ocean view as well. So what exactly is their number of passengers for these cruises. They only say reduced, but do not say how much. There is also a little comment about subject to change.

 

They stated that at some case level a cruise might be cut short and return to port but nowhere does it say what that case level is.

 

just a couple of high level examples.

 

 

So what is the exact situation for your cruise and are you certain that their protocols will not change between now and then?

Vaccinations: Not sure what RCG said in their statement, but it clearly states in the general Celebrity Health and Safety Protocols:

 

"Safe vacations start with prevention. Every guest and crew member will be fully vaccinated. Prior to boarding, all guests are required to complete a health questionnaire and guests 2 and older will be required to take an antigen test at the terminal and prior to debarkation if required for home country re-entry."

 

It also states in the specific St Marteen Celebrity cruise protocols:

 

Adult guests and crew members must have proof of full vaccination administered two weeks prior to embark. Children under the age of 18 must have a negative PCR test result within 5 days of embarkation. Celebrity will administer an antigen test to all guests 2 and older at the terminal and again at debarkation for country re-entry. 

 

As far as allowing Window and Inside cabins to now be bookable, if you do a fake booking on some of those cruises, you'll probably find their balcony and above cabins aren't selling as fast as they hoped. So they have opened up the cheaper cabins in hopes of reaching their target 50% capacity threshold.

 

As far as reaching a certain COVID case load level, does it really matter from a passenger perspective, other than to know at some point if it gets too severe they'll be heading back to port. As long as they have a plan to handle any individual COVID cases that come up, which they do, thatscall I need to know. But if all adults have been vaccinated, my guess is that "maximum level" probably won't even come close to being reached.

 

As far as our July cruises go, we weren't allowed to book our desired St Maarten B2B2B cruise because Celebrity isn't allowing them, even though every other cruise line with start-up cruises in the Caribbean is allowing them. We're still hoping for an Edge B2B starting in late July. But if they don't allow B2Bs on the Phase 4 restricted cruises, we have booked a 7 day Equinox cruise in early August scheduled to leave one day after the Edge July 31st cruise gets back to Ft Lauderdale.

 

If they don't happen, we have cruises booked in October. Hey, when it's time to cruise again, we're ready! 😁

[nocl]

8 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Vaccinations: Not sure what RCG said in their statement, but it clearly states in the general Celebrity Health and Safety Protocols:

 

"Safe vacations start with prevention. Every guest and crew member will be fully vaccinated. Prior to boarding, all guests are required to complete a health questionnaire and guests 2 and older will be required to take an antigen test at the terminal and prior to debarkation if required for home country re-entry."

 

It also states in the specific St Marteen Celebrity cruise protocols:

 

Adult guests and crew members must have proof of full vaccination administered two weeks prior to embark. Children under the age of 18 must have a negative PCR test result within 5 days of embarkation. Celebrity will administer an antigen test to all guests 2 and older at the terminal and again at debarkation for country re-entry. 

 

As far as allowing Window and Inside cabins to now be bookable, if you do a fake booking on some of those cruises, you'll probably find their balcony and above cabins aren't selling as fast as they hoped. So they have opened up the cheaper cabins in hopes of reaching their target 50% capacity threshold.

 

As far as reaching a certain COVID case load level, does it really matter from a passenger perspective, other than to know at some point if it gets too severe they'll be heading back to port. As long as they have a plan to handle any individual COVID cases that come up, which they do, thatscall I need to know. But if all adults have been vaccinated, my guess is that "maximum level" probably won't even come close to being reached.

 

As far as our July cruises go, we weren't allowed to book our desired St Maarten B2B2B cruise because Celebrity isn't allowing them, even though every other cruise line with start-up cruises in the Caribbean is allowing them. We're still hoping for an Edge B2B starting in late July. But if they don't allow B2Bs on the Phase 4 restricted cruises, we have booked a 7 day Equinox cruise in early August scheduled to leave one day after the Edge July 31st cruise gets back to Ft Lauderdale.

 

If they don't happen, we have cruises booked in October. Hey, when it's time to cruise again, we're ready! 😁

May the protocols be what you think they are and may they actually be the same on your cruise.

 

However read the disclaimers

 

 Health and safety protocols, guest conduct rules, as well as regional travel restrictions and clearance to visit ports of call, are subject to change without notice based on ongoing evaluation, public health standards, and government requirements. Onboard and destination experiences, features, itineraries and guest conduct rules vary by ship and destination and are subject to change without notice.

[Ken the cruiser]

26 minutes ago, nocl said:

May the protocols be what you think they are and may they actually be the same on your cruise.

 

However read the disclaimers

 

 Health and safety protocols, guest conduct rules, as well as regional travel restrictions and clearance to visit ports of call, are subject to change without notice based on ongoing evaluation, public health standards, and government requirements. Onboard and destination experiences, features, itineraries and guest conduct rules vary by ship and destination and are subject to change without notice.

The disclaimers sound pretty standard, especially when you consider what's going on in the various ports of call around the world during this evolving epidemic. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how well the various start-up Celebrity cruises go in June along with how well their published protocols are able to keep their Celebrity passengers safe while cruising in the Caribbean, Mediterranean and the UK.

[nocl]

2 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

The disclaimers sound pretty standard, especially when you consider what's going on in the various ports of call around the world during this evolving epidemic. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how well the various start-up Celebrity cruises go in June along with how well their published protocols are able to keep their Celebrity passengers safe while cruising in the Caribbean, Mediterranean and the UK.

We will also see how long they stick to their various protocols.