Key West Votes to Limit Cruise Ship Visits

[Hflors]

KW can do what they want.  After all its their city and their rules. I wish our area in SW Florida could enact restrictions like that during the season.  Getting to Ft Myers Beach during the season could take you several hours and then when you finally cross the bridge its almost impossible to park.  Unlike KW the influx of snowbird traffic is every day for months.   Not one, or two or even three per week, but every day!  

[cruisemom42]

On 11/5/2020 at 8:13 AM, ontheweb said:

 

When I thought we were more in non-agreement, I was ready to answer with it is more important than opening liquor store and gun shops. And it a lot safer than mass political rallies, especially when not wearing a mask is almost seen as a point of pride.

 

I agree with you in this. Again, my comment is regarding the huge differences in both a) current levels of infection and b) attitudes and behavior in different areas of the country that strongly call for different approaches to risky activities (such as attending school -- or going to protests or the liquor store).

 

I really do not think that those who have been living in areas where the majority of the population are compliant, and the infection rate is either low or is getting lower due to control measures, fully understand what it is like to live in areas where that is not the case.

 

Here is a quote from someone who just posted on the Celebrity board this morning:

 

"Made our change from Cape Cod, Ma to our Naples Fl home a week ago.  My eyes are wide open.  It’s a 180 on what people are doing.  I have asthma, controlled with a steroid inhaler, and can wear a mask and sometimes doubled masks.  Went to my favorite grocery store in Naples this morning at 7:45 am and the first person I saw as I entered was the guy who is our next door neighbor without a mask.  Didn’t bother to say hello."

[FlaMariner]

9 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

There was a population decrease after Hurricane Wilma in 2005 but otherwise, the population has stayed steady in Key West and Monroe County.

2020	71,809	-1,609	-2.24%
2019	73,418	-1,609	-2.19%
2018	75,027	-1,609	-2.14%
2017	76,636	-346	-0.45%   Looks like a decrease to me.  Odd for Florida...

[ontheweb]

20 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I agree with you in this. Again, my comment is regarding the huge differences in both a) current levels of infection and b) attitudes and behavior in different areas of the country that strongly call for different approaches to risky activities (such as attending school -- or going to protests or the liquor store).

 

I really do not think that those who have been living in areas where the majority of the population are compliant, and the infection rate is either low or is getting lower due to control measures, fully understand what it is like to live in areas where that is not the case.

 

Here is a quote from someone who just posted on the Celebrity board this morning:

 

"Made our change from Cape Cod, Ma to our Naples Fl home a week ago.  My eyes are wide open.  It’s a 180 on what people are doing.  I have asthma, controlled with a steroid inhaler, and can wear a mask and sometimes doubled masks.  Went to my favorite grocery store in Naples this morning at 7:45 am and the first person I saw as I entered was the guy who is our next door neighbor without a mask.  Didn’t bother to say hello."

Glad to see we are mostly in agreement. And it is a shame that there is so much non-compliance with things that can be done actually quite easily to help mitigate the spread of the virus. And I am sure you are correct that this varies greatly by the area of the country.

[Himself]

On 11/3/2020 at 9:06 PM, nocl said:

The results are in, it now moves to the courts for two legal cases by parties opposed to the ballot initiatives (they were unsuccessful in keeping them off the ballot).

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/florida-keys/article246615598.html#:~:text=Voters were asked to decide whether the city should%3A&text=Limit the number of daily,approved this by about 63%.&text=Prohibit cruise ships with 1%2C300 passengers or more from docking.

 

     ▪ Limit the number of daily cruise ship visitors at 1,500. Voters approved this by about 63%.

 

 

▪ Prohibit cruise ships with 1,300 passengers or more from docking. This passed with about 60% of the vote.

 

▪ Give docking priority to cruise lines that have the best health and environmental records. This passed with about 81% of the vote.

That keeps HAL out of Key West.

[FlaMariner]

2 hours ago, Hflors said:

KW can do what they want.  After all its their city and their rules. I wish our area in SW Florida could enact restrictions like that during the season.  Getting to Ft Myers Beach during the season could take you several hours and then when you finally cross the bridge its almost impossible to park.  Unlike KW the influx of snowbird traffic is every day for months.   Not one, or two or even three per week, but every day!  

 

Agree that KW can do what they want....as long as it does not cross state or nation's laws.....They have a great plan to focus on high end day tourists....It will be "cleaner" for them....and more exclusive.  Keep the t-shirt crowd out. Wonder if a Seabourn passenger will be able to buy a t shirt....the horror of it all?

 

Be careful what you ask for......."environmental" and "safety" are smart, legal ways to help an area become exclusive and drive out undesirable "working class" folk...both residents and visitors.  IMO, it's a form of discrimination.

 

 

[Rotterdam]

46 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

 

Agree that KW can do what they want....as long as it does not cross state or nation's laws.....They have a great plan to focus on high end day tourists....It will be "cleaner" for them....and more exclusive.  Keep the t-shirt crowd out. Wonder if a Seabourn passenger will be able to buy a t shirt....the horror of it all?

 

Be careful what you ask for......."environmental" and "safety" are smart, legal ways to help an area become exclusive and drive out undesirable "working class" folk...both residents and visitors.  IMO, it's a form of discrimination.

 

 

How generous of you...🙄 actually it is not only Key West heading in this direction.  Florida/ Dade & Broward  counties have gone more & more upscale over the last 10 years by building multi million dollar buildings.  on the be beach / A1A that replace more moderately priced hotels & apartments. Alot of these new  properties are bought by foreign investors.

South Florida  is so entrenched in the cruise industry & large corporate philosophy(aka Carnival Corp, RCCL, ETC) that policy is dictated by these corporations.  

Good for KEY WEST... alot more is at stake than t shirt shops.

PS I dont buy t shirts , logo items but I'd like to try a brunello cuccinelli t shirt .

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, FlaMariner said:

They have a great plan to focus on high end day tourists....It will be "cleaner" for them....and more exclusive.  Keep the t-shirt crowd out. Wonder if a Seabourn passenger will be able to buy a t shirt....the horror of it all?

 

Be careful what you ask for......."environmental" and "safety" are smart, legal ways to help an area become exclusive and drive out undesirable "working class" folk...both residents and visitors.  IMO, it's a form of discrimination.

 

 

I don't really see what you are driving at, unless KW is planning to stop all visitors arriving by car to ask them for income level verification...

 

I see several hotels available at under $100 per night. What exactly makes you think they are trying to keep the t-shirt crowd out -- do visitors who stay overnight not buy t-shirts?

 

[Hlitner]

A few points.  The KW initiative to limit cruise ship visits pre dates COVID.  How much COVID contributed to the final voting results is unknown although it obviously was on the mind of at least some voters.  But we emphasized in an earlier post that what has happened in KW vis-a-vis an anti-cruising mindset has been happening around the world for many years.   One fact is very clear.  As ships have grown in size (and number of passengers) the anti-ship mind set has also grown.   When I started cruising in the 70s, cruise ships were welcomed nearly everywhere in the world.  But when ships started carrying more then 2000 passengers (this is my own guestimate) we noticed some push back by locals in quite a few places.  

 

I have a fear that was has happened in far flung places like KW, Venice, Charleston, Santorini, St Barts, etc. have empowered those who are anti-cruise to seek bans and limits.    I think the era of easy access to ports (for cruise ships) is over and the industry is going to have to deal with the anti-cruise politic around the world.  This is especially troubling to those of us who extensively cruise all over the world since many of us treasure the access to smaller more quaint ports.  As the mass market lines continue to upsize their vessels and get rid of their smaller ships the situation is going to get worse.   Among the mass market lines, HAL has long championed smaller and mid-size ships..but now that line is also upsizing.  CCL has made no secret about ridding itself of all the small/medium size vessels for its mass market companies.  

 

Hank

P.S.  End of rant

 

 

[FlaMariner]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I don't really see what you are driving at, unless KW is planning to stop all visitors arriving by car to ask them for income level verification...

 

I see several hotels available at under $100 per night. What exactly makes you think they are trying to keep the t-shirt crowd out -- do visitors who stay overnight not buy t-shirts?

 

 

Awesome Cruisemom.....Where do you see the $100 rates?.......We are looking in January (Marriott guy) and the 3 star Fairfield Inn lowest is $174 and the Marriott Key West is over $277.......

[AtlantaCruiser72]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

A few points.  The KW initiative to limit cruise ship visits pre dates COVID.  How much COVID contributed to the final voting results is unknown although it obviously was on the mind of at least some voters.  But we emphasized in an earlier post that what has happened in KW vis-a-vis an anti-cruising mindset has been happening around the world for many years.   One fact is very clear.  As ships have grown in size (and number of passengers) the anti-ship mind set has also grown.   When I started cruising in the 70s, cruise ships were welcomed nearly everywhere in the world.  But when ships started carrying more then 2000 passengers (this is my own guestimate) we noticed some push back by locals in quite a few places.  

 

I have a fear that was has happened in far flung places like KW, Venice, Charleston, Santorini, St Barts, etc. have empowered those who are anti-cruise to seek bans and limits.    I think the era of easy access to ports (for cruise ships) is over and the industry is going to have to deal with the anti-cruise politic around the world.  This is especially troubling to those of us who extensively cruise all over the world since many of us treasure the access to smaller more quaint ports.  As the mass market lines continue to upsize their vessels and get rid of their smaller ships the situation is going to get worse.   Among the mass market lines, HAL has long championed smaller and mid-size ships..but now that line is also upsizing.  CCL has made no secret about ridding itself of all the small/medium size vessels for its mass market companies.  

 

Hank

P.S.  End of rant

 

 

Hank you really have hit on the heart of the matter. The cruise corporations have become their own worst enemies. As ships get bigger, and cruise fares are kept low, and the scope of passenger demographics broaden, there is a direct impact on the ports these behemoths visit.  Most cruise passengers simply don’t spend enough in the ports to support quality, locally owned businesses and make them sustainable. By limiting ship size, or number of ship visits, local commerce and governmental groups can focus on increasing multi-day tourism, which has a MUCH more profound, and healthy, effect on the local economy. 
 

Simply put - the cruise lines have only themselves to blame as ports start saying “thanks but no thanks” in increasing numbers. 

[JeffElizabeth]

On 11/4/2020 at 7:39 AM, FredT said:

Remember, the Keys have also enacted building moratorium's as of 2023....    The VOTERS who love down there love their little "slice of paradise" and will happily pay higher taxes to keep out the cruise ships.    As well, the people I know who call Key West home honestly think that if the cruise ships were gone, the economy would boom, as more tourists would visit and stay a few days or a week...  (And those same tourists now stay away due to the massive "day tourists" off the ships. )

Yes. Sounds just like Barcelona.  They make much more on the people who stay overnight or for the week than day trippers. Many ski areas are that way too. They make their money on the week long guests than the locals

[JeffElizabeth]

On 11/5/2020 at 10:55 AM, Sea Viewer said:

 

 

I am fortunate to live in s Florida and have spent many weekends and mid week breaks in Key West in the past, I have to agree that in recent years the vibe has completely changed during the days when cruise ships are in.  Multiple T shirt shops and DI were not a great addition to Key West. 

I also noted that many of the Alaska ports were loosing their "specialness" on my last trip there, a big change from my earlier visits in the late 80's. when I lived on the west coast.

 

It's great that travel and experiencing new adventures are now so readily available, but inevitably overcrowding is going to change the experience.

 

Mary

Agree. We went to Alaska in 1997 on Holland and it was an awesome trip, half cruise, half overland. Returned in 2019 for 14 days on Amsterdam, didn't recognize so many of the ports! Was a real shame. 

[Hlitner]

I laugh when I think of the post about KW limiting its day tourists to "high end" folks.  Anyone who is familiar with KW (I think we fall into that category since we vacation there on a regular basis) knows that KW is anything but a place seeking "high end" folks.  Palm Beach is high end,,,,but KW is anything but!   Yes, there are some high end hotels and Inns, but there are many more lower end rooming houses, medium price B&Bs, and some pretty dumpy motels.   Key West is a place for laid back folks who just want to have fun without trying to impress anyone.   DW and I have found KW to be a delightful respite with the fabulous drive  down from the mainland just icing on the cake.  Not many in KW are trying to impress with their clothes (some don't even wear clothes...which is another subject) or money.  It is just a fun town where just about anything goes as long as it does not harm others.

 

Hank

[nocl]

8 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

 

Agree that KW can do what they want....as long as it does not cross state or nation's laws.....They have a great plan to focus on high end day tourists....It will be "cleaner" for them....and more exclusive.  Keep the t-shirt crowd out. Wonder if a Seabourn passenger will be able to buy a t shirt....the horror of it all?

 

Be careful what you ask for......."environmental" and "safety" are smart, legal ways to help an area become exclusive and drive out undesirable "working class" folk...both residents and visitors.  IMO, it's a form of discrimination.

 

 

Keep in mind that Key West has 15,000 vacation units (hotels, vacation rentals and RV sites) so they already get lots of tourists of all incomes.  What they don't want is 6-9000 day visitors dropped in down town.  Where the impact is a negative when it comes to the over night visitors.

 

The focus in not high end day visitors as much as to limit all day visitors and reduce the over crowding that exists now.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I laugh when I think of the post about KW limiting its day tourists to "high end" folks.  Anyone who is familiar with KW (I think we fall into that category since we vacation there on a regular basis) knows that KW is anything but a place seeking "high end" folks.  Palm Beach is high end,,,,but KW is anything but!   Yes, there are some high end hotels and Inns, but there are many more lower end rooming houses, medium price B&Bs, and some pretty dumpy motels.   Key West is a place for laid back folks who just want to have fun without trying to impress anyone.   DW and I have found KW to be a delightful respite with the fabulous drive  down from the mainland just icing on the cake.  Not many in KW are trying to impress with their clothes (some don't even wear clothes...which is another subject) or money.  It is just a fun town where just about anything goes as long as it does not harm others.

 

Hank

I would recommend Kiki's Sandbar Bar and Grill on Little Torch Key as a nice place to eat on the way down.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

I would recommend Kiki's Sandbar Bar and Grill on Little Torch Key as a nice place to eat on the way down.

I added that to my data base :).  Most of the time we have lunch at the Hungry Tarpon which seems to be at the right place during lunch time.  Little Torch Key would be a very late lunch, but it is a thought.

 

Hank

[BJzink]

Here's a reply from the other side.  I lived and worked for 6 months in Charlotte Amalie, St Thomas.  The newspaper back then showed the names of ships for that day and the passenger count.  We adjusted our activities accordingly.  Hard to explain just how much thousands and thousands of people can affect your lives.  It more than doubled the population, and finding a beach that wasn't wall to wall was pretty impossible on my day off.  It was a relief when 5PM came and everyone left.  I am an avid cruiser now, so understand both sides, but it isn't always $$ for sure.

[miataman19]

On 11/6/2020 at 4:41 PM, Hlitner said:

I laugh when I think of the post about KW limiting its day tourists to "high end" folks.  Anyone who is familiar with KW (I think we fall into that category since we vacation there on a regular basis) knows that KW is anything but a place seeking "high end" folks.  Palm Beach is high end,,,,but KW is anything but!   Yes, there are some high end hotels and Inns, but there are many more lower end rooming houses, medium price B&Bs, and some pretty dumpy motels.   Key West is a place for laid back folks who just want to have fun without trying to impress anyone.   DW and I have found KW to be a delightful respite with the fabulous drive  down from the mainland just icing on the cake.  Not many in KW are trying to impress with their clothes (some don't even wear clothes...which is another subject) or money.  It is just a fun town where just about anything goes as long as it does not harm others.

 

Hank

Quick story. Was sitting at the bar at Schooner Wharf next to a gentleman wearing a ratty t-shirt board shorts, flip flops, scruffy beard. We sat there for about 2 hours drinking beer and talking (sounds like a country song, I know). He finally said good bye and left. I asked the bartender if he was a local, just because of his appearance. The bartender laughed and told me to turn around and look into the harbor. He said, see that giant yacht with the helicopter on it, it's his. Bartender says he comes to KW every year for about 2 months and just chills. We come here for a week, twice a year. For some strange reason this place gets in your blood. Hard to explain to someone that only visits on a cruise ship for a day. Come down for a couple of days and see for yourself what this place of legends is all about

[Rotterdam]

One of the best ways to appreciate the Keys is to drive down from Miami/ Fort Laudedale..driving over the Keys for a few hours is spectacular..so beautiful.  Several times We've driven down to Key west, stayed a few days in a hotel in Key west & drove back..a great 4-5 day trip.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Rotterdam said:

One of the best ways to appreciate the Keys is to drive down from Miami/ Fort Laudedale..driving over the Keys for a few hours is spectacular..so beautiful.  Several times We've driven down to Key west, stayed a few days in a hotel in Key west & drove back..a great 4-5 day trip.

One of the rewards we get for vacationing at Key West is the drive along the Overseas Highway.  We have our timing down so that we can fly into FLL, grab a rental car, and make it to the Hungry Tarpon (Mile Marker 77 near Islammorada) in time for a relaxing lunch overlooking the water (and the tarpons).  That drive is just like when I board a cruise ship....a true tonic which lifts away all the bad vibes.  We have been blessed to have traveled around much of the world and have discovered that there are just some places that are so special that the troubles of the world are replaced by pure joy.  For us that includes places like Key West; Queenstown, NZ; Paris, and even my birth city of New York CIty (although recent changes have put done much to destroy the magic of that city).

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

Just now, Hlitner said:

One of the rewards we get for vacationing at Key West is the drive along the Overseas Highway.  We have our timing down so that we can fly into FLL, grab a rental car, and make it to the Hungry Tarpon (Mile Marker 77 near Islammorada) in time for a relaxing lunch overlooking the water (and the tarpons).  That drive is just like when I board a cruise ship....a true tonic which lifts away all the bad vibes.  We have been blessed to have traveled around much of the world and have discovered that there are just some places that are so special that the troubles of the world are replaced by pure joy.  For us that includes places like Key West; Queenstown, NZ; Paris, south of France,  and even my birth city of New York CIty (although recent changes have put done much to destroy the magic of that city).

 

Hank

 

[FlaMariner]

2 hours ago, fyree39 said:

Maybe look beyond Marriott properties. I'm also finding rooms under $100/day.

 

Cool. Where?  I see the low rates in August but that's no fun.

 

Just tried hotels.com......searched midweeks in January...lowest was $174 and lots in the $200+ range.

 

The January HAL cruises that stop at Key West show I can go $73 a night per person......Looks like we better get to Key West while we can afford it.....and go buy my t-shirt and spoil the environment with my walk up and down Duval St......

 

Oh well, my kind will not be trashing up Key West for much longer........Keep it nice, clean, environmentally friendly, save the reefs and just be an all around "nicer" place for some.

 

Enjoy!

 

See y'all in Nassau, Cozumel and St Thomas........

 

[ldlewis45]

Good for Key West.  I'll admit, I never saw the point of spending over $1000 for a cruise that stops in Florida, of all places.  When I lived in Florida, I always told people, "I live in Florida, why in God's name would I spend money to take a cruise that stops here?  The whole point of taking a cruise is to get away!"  But, that's also why I've never taken a New England cruise or a California coast cruise.  I've never really seen the point, since I take cruises to visit locations to which I can't drive (Alaska, Europe, Caribbean, etc.). 

[ew101]

I am scratching my head here- does this ban eliminate essentially all the ships from all the mass market lines?  Even at reduced capacity?   On each of our three cruise port vists we have maybe spent $40 each.  Which is not a lot.   But the place is lovely.