IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU OR ME, IT'S ABOUT US.

[Spif Barwunkel]

It seems the further away from our social norms this virus takes us, the more impatient and ornery and unreasonable many folks become. As a cruising coterie, how fortunate we are if the only thing we have to worry and complain about – as Covid-19 rages on - is our cruising status and the recognition that we think should go along with it.

 

Now, with Celebrity unveiling its new marketing strategy, more feathers have been ruffled, more feelings hurt and more lines drawn in the sand. All in the name of “what’s in it for me”. Where do you think that will get us? You see, it’s not about you. It’s about us.

In these hard times X has laid it out there for all to see. The plan is what they feel will work for them, not what will screw you out of your ego toys thus disrupting your happy place. No matter your Captain’s Club status, its importance is really not all that important right now. For the time being, time to get over yourselves.

 

I have cruised Celebrity more than many, but not near as often as others. I don’t feel slighted, forgotten or unrecognized. I feel hopeful that we will eventually be back to where we belong, possibly with some slight modifications. If it’s about you, you won’t get us there no matter your self-indulged status. If it’s about us, with a change of attitude and a more understanding viewpoint, Celebrity and all its patrons will once again enjoy each other’s company.  

 

Should you fail to see the importance of we and not me, then you fail to see the recognition that we owe X and each other. Not accepting that perhaps indicates that as a future passenger, you indeed are irrelevant.

 

[basenji56]

I understand where you are coming from.  But for RCL management, its all about the stock price.  How to get more return for shareholders and how to keep their jobs and their very high salaries.  

 

And it appears that RCL is doing pretty well in that regard.  Stock is at almost $73 a share despite not sailing in almost nine months.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/RCL?mod=MW_story_quote

 

 

[Spif Barwunkel]

6 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

I understand where you are coming from.  But for RCL management, its all about the stock price.  How to get more return for shareholders and how to keep their jobs and their very high salaries.  

 

And it appears that RCL is doing pretty well in that regard.  Stock is at almost $73 a share despite not sailing in almost nine months.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/RCL?mod=MW_story_quote

 

 

But as intelligent people, surely you realize that stock prices and shareholders are an extremely important part of the business equation, as are executive salaries. Take those away, hard to survive.

[TeeRick]

4 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

I understand where you are coming from.  But for RCL management, its all about the stock price.  How to get more return for shareholders and how to keep their jobs and their very high salaries.  

 

And it appears that RCL is doing pretty well in that regard.  Stock is at almost $73 a share despite not sailing in almost nine months.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/RCL?mod=MW_story_quote

 

Yes and No. 

Yes- for the top-level senior management of any public corporation they are always committed to their shareholders and stock price. 

No- For RCG parent corporation, it has actually all been about basic survival in 2020 more than anything else.  Lots of debt.  No income.  No revenue.  Paying and keeping employees since March.  Huge changes.  The stock price you mention has been mostly tanked for the year. It  has recently become elevated due to the vaccine hopes.  Not due to highly paid management. 

[basenji56]

I do understand all of these points.  I just don't like being lied to by marketing people. 

 

They are adding the amenities to the fares, not to make it simple or more luxurious, but to bring in more revenue at an earlier stage.  They are not "enhancing" the Captains Club benefits, they are reducing those benefits.

 

If they need to do this to save the company, I get it.  But, I don't like being played for a fool.

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C-Dragons]

10 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

I do understand all of these points.  I just don't like being lied to by marketing people. 

 

They are adding the amenities to the fares, not to make it simple or more luxurious, but to bring in more revenue at an earlier stage.  They are not "enhancing" the Captains Club benefits, they are reducing those benefits.

 

If they need to do this to save the company, I get it.  But, I don't like being played for a fool.

 

If you understand, then I don’t see how you can be played for a fool.

You can either accept things the way they are or move on. Your choice.

Edited November 22, 2020 by C-Dragons

[Joeandem]

I hear your points but I am very disappointed as a loyal Celebrity customer. Like many of us, I had a cruise scheduled for January 2021 that I lifted and shifted to 2022. It was cancelled last week with no option for me other than to reschedule at “prevailing” rates. We have no idea what 2022 holds. And while I was perfectly fine with Celebrity holding my deposit and the payments I had made thus far, I am certainly not going to book a much more expensive cruise in 2022. 
 

Once things seem safe again, I will take my hard earned money elsewhere. I think it is a shame for Celebrity to lose loyal customers during this difficult time, but they really didn’t offer a reasonable choice. 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

 

Should you fail to see the importance of we and not me, then you fail to see the recognition that we owe X and each other. Not accepting that perhaps indicates that as a future passenger, you indeed are irrelevant.

 

 

I don't really have a big dog in this race -- maybe a chihuahua -- as even though I'm a long-time cruiser, I tend to not be particularly brand loyal. And that's why I find your quote interesting.

 

Cruise companies are just that -- companies. They are looking out for their own bottom line. They have no real "loyalty" to you (or anyone) as a consumer; if having repeat customers is good for their bottom line they will encourage it, if not, they will dis-incentivize them. 

 

It always seems kind of weird to me when folks feel such a (IMO misplaced) sense of loyalty to a particular cruise line. Would you get so emotionally attached to a television brand or to a type of detergent?  Yet there is something about going on vacation and having a good time that engenders a strange feeling of loyalty in people. Or a sense that their loyalty should be recognized.

 

If Celebrity's new model is not a good fit for me, I will feel no compunction in taking them off my list of cruise lines that I keep in the mix when considering booking. By the same token, I would have no false sense of being "wronged", e.g., that Celebrity had somehow abandoned me, even though I have sporadically sailed with them since 1997. Should things change again, I will happily add them back into the mix.

 

Yes, I might complain about the new policies (particularly those that impact solo travelers) but in the end it is their decision to make and I do not feel any bonds of loyalty or recognition were broken on either end if Celebrity and I part ways.

[AC Stew]

Spif Barwunkel: Your above thoughts ...  well considered, sensible, and (dare I say it) right to the salient points. I'm in total agreement.

 

When we finally get rolling again, we have to be prepared for changes. All the cruiselines will be forced to market revised products. They'll do what is necessary to start up after a long shut down.  Some lines won't make it at all. Of course, I'm not elated about apparent "downgrades" to my status benefits. Who would be? But I do understand. And is it going to kill me to not have appetizers with my pre-dinner glass (or two) of wine? No! I can still enjoy the views from that same upper deck lounge, sip that same Captain's Club wine, and converse with fellow cruisers if I'm feeling chatty.

 

Whatever changes are made, they will no doubt evolve to change and change again. We have to be patient. As an experienced group, we can continue to offer feed back. High future pricing might level out ... perhaps the "inclusive" pricing might end up being a bust. As we know, marketing decisions are often reversed based on our comments. (I'm no business/ marketing expert, just a cruiser making an observation.)

 

Still, our pandemic real-time situation is entirely different from anything we've seen before. I think that old rules and expectations cannot apply. Our loyalty and $$$ spent with Celebrity won't go unnoticed, but these matters might not be fully addressed for the time being.

 

My TA of 20 years (who is uncannily prescient), has predicted a major, major shake-up in the cruise industry. He believes that there will be a buy out and/or consolidation of NCL and RCI(G). If he's correct, everything will change. And as an aside, think about the basic issue of ship's staffing. Will the legions of foreign nationals be so willing to race back and risk their lives for slave labour wages? Just saying ... that matter might enter into the cost of a cruise.

 

Who knows where we'll end up? But I'm somewhat positive ... there are a helluva lot of people out there, itching to get back on a ship. We need to accept the changes and go with the flow for now. 

 

And if you're hanging out on Cruise Critic and reading this, you're not in an ICU ward with Covid. Let's all be grateful for that!

 

Safe travels and hopes for meeting new friends on a future sailing.

 

[Pinboy]

2 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

You see, it’s not about you. It’s about us.

LOL--- Who's the " US " ?  It's ME, ME, ME as exhibited by the number of CCers that are upset at Celebrity taking away some of their Status Loyalty Benefits.

I could care less about a friggin " one scoop of gelato " , an " Interview with the CD "  ( That's a laugh !! ) or  a " Meet and Greet with SR Officers " . 

Just offer a " fair " price with the option to select the AI or " Go Solo " and we're in.

However, as I've said several times--- Include the Gratuities in the price with  " absolutely no removal possible under any circumstances ".

 

[LGW59]

2 hours ago, basenji56 said:

I do understand all of these points.  I just don't like being lied to by marketing people. 

 

They are adding the amenities to the fares, not to make it simple or more luxurious, but to bring in more revenue at an earlier stage.  They are not "enhancing" the Captains Club benefits, they are reducing those benefits.

 

If they need to do this to save the company, I get it.  But, I don't like being played for a fool.

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think your math calculator is computing properly.  You can borrow mine, it has very large, easy to read numbers.

[bigbenboys]

While I'm going to miss the CC evening event in the Sky Lounge. And I hope that the Zenith's will be back in the Retreat soon. I also hope that Celebrity MC/ Retreat manager will have the option to invite Zenith members to the Retreat when their are only a few onboard.

When I book a cruise I decide if I'm willing to pay that price and hope that at some point the cruise price might go down. The cost I pay is really for the enjoyment of that cruise. The CC program should not really come into play. 

I do try to not be part of the ME group. So many people need help at this period of time.

[hcat]

I disagree with the OP's premise.

Ever since Royal took over Celebrity,  it' strictly about them...not about us, whether we are loyal  customers or newbies.  Marketing rules!  We are the cash cows...

 

There have been many visions and revisions about what  Celebrity should offer in  the name of Modern Luxury!  Thankfully, they always come back to basics.

We will stay and play until it no longer meets our cruising desires/ standards.

[Gracie115]

I believe that right now it is about SURVIVAL.  RCL CEO said last March they could probably go as long as 18 months with out sailing.  We are coming up on a year pretty quick now....and more cancellations still coming through out the industry.....

 

Sure, the upper management are still taking their salaries, but they are also trying to keep the cruiseline viable....  if they (and all lines) aren't up and running by summer I'd bet that at least one of the major lines will disappear completely or wind up blended together with another, (think Princess & HAL) and other ships will be "retired."

 

I've looked at some of the prices, post the "always included" start up date and outside of the Edge Class don't see a huge difference from the day before that program kicked in.  Now the prices may have ALREADY been too high in some people's opinions but I don't see a huge difference.

 

I know the initial emails that got sent out cancelling Edge sailing and giving the option of a Silhouette sailing, same dates & ports, came with the "at the prevailing rates"  clause but someone at Celebrity listened and that changed to moving to Silhouette in as close to equal accommodations at no increase in price....AND the bonus is that all those booked in those "window" balconies on the Edge will wind up with a real veranda and a newly "revolutionized" ship....  

 

Anyway.....we hope to cruise again some day... we have 5 booked, expect the April 2021 TA to cancel but hopeful that the rest will be a go... fingers and toes crossed.!!!!

 

  

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gracie115

[kathynorth]

9 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

I've looked at some of the prices, post the "always included" start up date and outside of the Edge Class don't see a huge difference from the day before that program kicked in.  Now the prices may have ALREADY been too high in some people's opinions but I don't see a huge difference.

 

I've been tracking several cruises over the past 2 months and watched the rates steadily rise  over that time while cabin availability remained wide open. IMO this was the cruiseline's way of avoiding too big of a jump in rates with the announcement of the AI program.

 

9 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

I know the initial emails that got sent out cancelling Edge sailing and giving the option of a Silhouette sailing, same dates & ports, came with the "at the prevailing rates"  clause but someone at Celebrity listened and that changed to moving to Silhouette in as close to equal accommodations at no increase in price....AND the bonus is that all those booked in those "window" balconies on the Edge will wind up with a real veranda and a newly "revolutionized" ship....  

 

Yup, Celebrity did the right thing for those who had cruises booked on the Edge. However, those of us on the Summit got skunked! I'm sure there are lots more passengers on other itineraries who were not provided the opportunity for a laterally move to another cruise or a reasonable OBC to compensate for the prevailing rates requirement. 

 

 

[ECCruise]

Doesn't matter to us whether the prices edged up slowly or jumped when they added the all included.

The bottom line is that with the cruises that we had booked (and were cancelled or restructured) the price is up around 40% for things we don't want or need--booze package and WIFI.  So we would be paying $Thousands to get $Hundreds in value with grats.  

Enjoyed the times we spent on =X= but they've sailed past our price point for value.  No hard feelings.

[Spif Barwunkel]

Perhaps I should clarify my topic thread opening statement. "US" includes me and you and Celebrity too. Some give and take, here and there is healthy and necessary, although to some not always equitable. And to that I would ask, if it's good for you and me, is it okay if it is not necessarily good for Celebrity?

 

I have cruises booked on other lines as well as X. including one booked two days ago. Comments on this Celebrity thread would certainly be pertinent on any other cruise line forum.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Spif Barwunkel

[vswan]

We have cruised at least once a year for the past 25 years. We are not loyal to any one brand and have done HAL, princess, royal, NCL, costa, msc and of course celebrity. Which line we choose when is dependent on a number of factors including destinations, port of departure, price/value, etc. Obviously we have not reaches the top loyalty status on any one cruise line and enjoy the limited perks we do get for levels on a number of lines. When rating cruise lines we both say the X ships are the top and first choice for us and are willing to spend a little more if the other items line up for us - but not a lot more. If we can get the same itinerary, port of departure for a lot less we consider the value and make our decision. 

 

We are not drinkers and we generally just use wifi to check email when in a port. Neither benefit is worth a substantial price increase to us. I have long felt that the gratuities should be included in the cruise price. They are a required cost of the cruise so should be included. (Yes, I know if you complain you can sometimes take them off, I don't).

 

No one knows when or how this pandemic is going to end. It isn't just cruise lines that are having to adjust how they do things. Many businesses will not survive and are making changes to try and stay afloat. Celebrity may make changes we don't like, but they are doing what they think they need to do to make it. Some choices will be good, others not so good. We also have choices to make. We can continue to sail with them, choose not to sail at all or choose another cruise line. We all wish we could go back to the way things were, but sadly there will be changes to many things.

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, Gracie115 said:

I believe that right now it is about SURVIVAL.  RCL CEO said last March they could probably go as long as 18 months with out sailing.  We are coming up on a year pretty quick now....and more cancellations still coming through out the industry.....

 

Sure, the upper management are still taking their salaries, but they are also trying to keep the cruiseline viable....  if they (and all lines) aren't up and running by summer I'd bet that at least one of the major lines will disappear completely or wind up blended together with another, (think Princess & HAL) and other ships will be "retired."

 

I've looked at some of the prices, post the "always included" start up date and outside of the Edge Class don't see a huge difference from the day before that program kicked in.  Now the prices may have ALREADY been too high in some people's opinions but I don't see a huge difference.

 

I know the initial emails that got sent out cancelling Edge sailing and giving the option of a Silhouette sailing, same dates & ports, came with the "at the prevailing rates"  clause but someone at Celebrity listened and that changed to moving to Silhouette in as close to equal accommodations at no increase in price....AND the bonus is that all those booked in those "window" balconies on the Edge will wind up with a real veranda and a newly "revolutionized" ship....  

 

Anyway.....we hope to cruise again some day... we have 5 booked, expect the April 2021 TA to cancel but hopeful that the rest will be a go... fingers and toes crossed.!!!!

 

  

Fain gave up his salary in April thru at least September.  Other execs took a 25% salary reduction.  They still have a company to keep viable and are working harder now than ever before.  I say good on RCL/Celebrity, look forward to cruising with you again!

[basenji56]

24 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Fain gave up his salary in April thru at least September.  Other execs took a 25% salary reduction.  They still have a company to keep viable and are working harder now than ever before.  I say good on RCL/Celebrity, look forward to cruising with you again!

Royal Caribbean CEO foregoes salary as coronavirus hurts cruise lines - Business Insider

 

[Life Buoy]

It is about ME! My Money, my preferences, my choices. I feel entitled to the benefits I was promised when the promise was made. I realize that a merchant may change the rules of the game anytime they want, but I have the option to either shop that merchant or take my business elsewhere. I'm relatively new to Celebrity and really have no skin in the benefits game.. But, I really do understand why those who have been loyal for many years feel the way they do. If people make their concerns loud enough and clear enough and vote with their hard earned dollars those in charge might change their approach. 

[Gracie115]

Just now, Life Buoy said:

It is about ME! My Money, my preferences, my choices. I feel entitled to the benefits I was promised when the promise was made. I realize that a merchant may change the rules of the game anytime they want, but I have the option to either shop that merchant or take my business elsewhere. I'm relatively new to Celebrity and really have no skin in the benefits game.. But, I really do understand why those who have been loyal for many years feel the way they do. If people make their concerns loud enough and clear enough and vote with their hard earned dollars those in charge might change their approach. 

 

We are Elite Plus.....we don't care about the perks...we just want to cruise again.

[Life Buoy]

Just now, Gracie115 said:

 

We are Elite Plus.....we don't care about the perks...we just want to cruise again.

Fine, that's your choice. That's what works for you.

[Gracie115]

4 minutes ago, Life Buoy said:

Fine, that's your choice. That's what works for you.

 

Yes, it is.  We sailed on Celebrity for 20+ years and love the product. Since they are selling "all inclusive" now I just don't get the issue with the loss of a few perks.

 

Now I'd be unhappy if I was Zenith and no longer had access to Michael's/The Retreat as it was a really good perk.  The rest really aren't worth all that much.  

[LGW59]

Just now, Gracie115 said:

 

Yes, it is.  We sailed on Celebrity for 20+ years and love the product. Since they are selling "all inclusive" now I just don't get the issue with the loss of a few perks.

 

Now I'd be unhappy if I was Zenith and no longer had access to Michael's/The Retreat as it was a really good perk.  The rest really aren't worth all that much.  

you aren't upset about not getting the gelato?  😂