Mandate the vaccine and establish a realistic start date

[kirtihk]

12 hours ago, 1980dory said:

Careful.  The speech police are probably watching.  And believe me, I know eactly what you are saying.

No one is safe anymore.

That’s my whole point. That’s also why I use the Aesopian language.

[Blondiemomm]

On 1/28/2021 at 5:04 PM, Suncoastsailors said:

Why do they need test cruises if everyone is vaccinated.

I believe you need to educate yourself on how vaccines work. It is not a cure-all. Cruise lines will not sail if there is a chance of an outbreak on board. I would be very surprised if they become mandatory. If Americans are refusing to wear a mask because it infringes on their "rights" you think they will let 
"big Pharma" inject them with a vaccine with such a limited  history? Hell. No.

[MommaBear55]

On 1/28/2021 at 5:33 PM, firefly333 said:

A vaccine for kids under 18 hasnt even been approved. So ban all kids?

People who don't like kids would be happy... But seriously, the Pfizer vaccine is good for people 16 and over and clinical trials are currently underway for those 12 and over, with 2:1 vaccine to placebo. This should be approved within the next 4-5 months

[Blondiemomm]

1 minute ago, MommaBear55 said:

People who don't like kids would be happy... But seriously, the Pfizer vaccine is good for people 16 and over and clinical trials are currently underway for those 12 and over, with 2:1 vaccine to placebo. This should be approved within the next 4-5 months

We were originally booked to sail in August with my 2 kids as well. I am not risking it. I rebooked without them. We have to travel to the port and I am not risking being stuck in Miami with a false positive for a child. 

[Ocean Boy]

7 minutes ago, Blondiemomm said:

I believe you need to educate yourself on how vaccines work. It is not a cure-all. Cruise lines will not sail if there is a chance of an outbreak on board. I would be very surprised if they become mandatory. If Americans are refusing to wear a mask because it infringes on their "rights" you think they will let 
"big Pharma" inject them with a vaccine with such a limited  history? Hell. No.

Someone can most certainly refuse a vaccine. A cruise line can, in return, refuse to provide service. This is not as complicated as some are making it out to be.

 

[kirtihk]

11 hours ago, cured said:

You absolutely have the right to offer yourself up as a willing host to allow the virus to mutate. If you don't want the vaccine, not sure of the laws in Scotland, but in the US (at least so far) you will not be forced to get the vaccine.

 

In the same vein, just as you have the right to make a choice best for you, businesses like cruise lines have the right to make choices that are best for them.  If they feel that they will entice more customers if they mandate the vaccine, the bottom line will dictate they do so.  It is very fair that each entity gets to make the choice that is best for them.  What would be unfair is for you to demand that everyone makes the same choice as you in order for you to get your way. 

 

Choices always have consequences. If you choose not to vaccinate, your entrance into some businesses may be limited.  If the cruise line mandates vaccine, they run the risk it will backfire. But if you make a choice, you have to accept the consequences.

What I see within last 2.5 years a reference to the “consequences” actually mean punishment, and that’s the biggest problem of all. One is supposed to be scared of personal actions, conclusions, and the most dangerously even thoughts. Everything must be in line with the main stream, and any movement in the other direction is prohibited. For last few weeks it is getting really, really ugly. I was forced to be scared from birth. Now, enough is enough for me. Unfortunately, the location in this planet does not change anything. The history repeats itself. I refuse to be scared anymore.

[John&LaLa]

12 hours ago, cured said:

You do realize that 103 years ago during the 1918 Spanish flu, masks were mandated, schools and public amusement places closed along with other things that are being done during today's pandemic?  Virus knowledge was at its infancy, but even then, the scientists knew that masks contained spread. I am not sure where you get the information that masks and lockdowns are new things for pandemics.

 

As for travel, Airplanes land in a few hours. The people disembark and they are still within hours or even minutes of a hospital if they come down with covid.  The passenger load/risk of transmission changes every few hours. 200 people exposed for 4-6 hours is far different than 2,000 people exposed to the same people for several days.  Additionally, if there is an outbreak on a cruise ship, they are in the middle of the ocean with the dubious task of now finding a port to offload positive cruisers.  

 

It is pretty simple to ascertain the differences between air travel and cruising.

 

Not much air travel in 1918

 

Plenty of cruise travel

[broberts]

10 hours ago, cured said:

Not so sure about that. From the beginning, it was said that masks and social distancing were needed to get us through UNTIL a vaccine was available. Even early last year, the predictions were for a vaccine in approximately 18 months. Masks were never touted as a replacement for vaccines, just as a stopgap until a vaccine was available.

 

It would not surprise me that some careless media used the term "until a vaccine is available". More careful media correctly reported, "untill most are vaccinated".

 

Simple logic arrives at the need to actually inject a vaccine for any effect. More careful thought is needed to realize that until a significant number of people are vaccinated other mitigation will be required to keep the healthcare system from being overrun.

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

It would not surprise me that some careless media used the term "until a vaccine is available". More careful media correctly reported, "untill most are vaccinated".

 

Simple logic arrives at the need to actually inject a vaccine for any effect. More careful thought is needed to realize that until a significant number of people are vaccinated other mitigation will be required to keep the healthcare system from being overrun.

More reasoning to support the cruise lines having a vaccine mandate.

[broberts]

14 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

What I see within last 2.5 years a reference to the “consequences” actually mean punishment, and that’s the biggest problem of all.

 

I know many see not being able to do what one wants, when on wants, as a punishment. It truly is not.

 

If someone attempts to enter a place of business in my area not wearing a mask, he will be asked to leave immediately. This is not a punishment, it is a consequence of his refusal to follow the law.

Edited February 1, 2021 by broberts

[Blondiemomm]

24 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Someone can most certainly refuse a vaccine. A cruise line can, in return, refuse to provide service. This is not as complicated as some are making it out to be.

 

You think they will make it mandatory? I really hope they do but I don't see it happening..

[Sail n Snow]

31 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

People who don't like kids would be happy... But seriously, the Pfizer vaccine is good for people 16 and over and clinical trials are currently underway for those 12 and over, with 2:1 vaccine to placebo. This should be approved within the next 4-5 months

You could argue that with all adults vaccinated that kids not being vaccinated would be ok as they tend to be in an age group that don’t have severe symptoms and their is evidence schools have not been mass clusters (*with appropriate distancing)

 

Maybe the cruise lines offer multiple types of cruises.  One that’s 100% vaccinated, another with kids and then one that vaccines are optional (this one is probably the least likely). 
 

Again it won’t matter if ports of call aren’t open for business unless they just do cruises to nowhere or their private islands. 

[ONECRUISER]

5 minutes ago, Blondiemomm said:

You think they will make it mandatory? I really hope they do but I don't see it happening..

“It will certainly be a requirement for the crew,” Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings CEO Frank Del Rio said in a Zoom chat with the president of Travel Leaders Group, a major cruise seller. “But it’s too early to tell whether we have the legal standing to mandate that you take a vaccine to come onboard — lawyers are looking at it as we speak.”

[Blondiemomm]

11 minutes ago, ONECRUISER said:

“It will certainly be a requirement for the crew,” Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings CEO Frank Del Rio said in a Zoom chat with the president of Travel Leaders Group, a major cruise seller. “But it’s too early to tell whether we have the legal standing to mandate that you take a vaccine to come onboard — lawyers are looking at it as we speak.”

Crews absolutely. I am talking about paying passengers. 

[Suncoastsailors]

1 hour ago, Blondiemomm said:

I believe you need to educate yourself on how vaccines work. It is not a cure-all. Cruise lines will not sail if there is a chance of an outbreak on board. I would be very surprised if they become mandatory. If Americans are refusing to wear a mask because it infringes on their "rights" you think they will let 
"big Pharma" inject them with a vaccine with such a limited  history? Hell. No.

I never said vaccine was a cure-all. Neither is hand washing, mask or sanitizing. Full compliance with vaccine will eliminate large outbreaks onboard and get us back to cruising. Americans are getting the vaccine over a million a day. Hell YES. 

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, Blondiemomm said:

I believe you need to educate yourself on how vaccines work. It is not a cure-all.

 

For sure it is not a cure-all but it is a game changer.  

 

Quote

Cruise lines will not sail if there is a chance of an outbreak on board. I would be very surprised if they become mandatory.

 

I will not be surprised that it becomes mandatory.  There are many here who would take it to cruise.  Even more who would take it to help reduce their chance of getting Covid, and if by chance they get it reduce the severity of their infection.  As for cruise lines not sailing because of the risk of an outbreak, there was always a risk of some type of outbreak.  Noro is a prime example. 

 

Quote

If Americans are refusing to wear a mask because it infringes on their "rights" you think they will let 
"big Pharma" inject them with a vaccine with such a limited  history? Hell. No.

 

Anti-maskers won't cruise if it is a requirement.  Maybe they have the shot and they wait until the mask use is lifted.

 

To me the anti-vaxers that are more concerning.  Who knows, they might do something foolish and try to stop a ship from sailing because it has vaccinated people on board. Just this weekend they disrupted a drive thru vaccine clinic in Cali, because they thought they needed to. 

 

35 minutes ago, Blondiemomm said:

You think they will make it mandatory? I really hope they do but I don't see it happening..

 

They can make it mandatory in the beginning when they start to sail.  With the CDC it might be the only way they get to start sailing.  If Covid "disappears", they can adjust their rules later on.

 

17 minutes ago, Blondiemomm said:

Crews absolutely. I am talking about paying passengers. 

 

I think they would want it for both, lessening their chance of a Covid outbreak on board.  I would not end the chance of an outbreak, but ti would reduce the chances and be a game changer.

Edited February 1, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[kirtihk]

37 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I know many see not being able to do what one wants, when on wants, as a punishment. It truly is not.

 

If someone attempts to enter a place of business in my area not wearing a mask, he will be asked to leave immediately. This is not a punishment, it is a consequence of his refusal to follow the law.

Look broader please. I was writing about everything, not just one topic.

[Suncoastsailors]

I hope RCCL is monitoring this thread. If so they will see there are or will be many vaccinated passengers that would love to get back to cruising. 

[A&L_Ont]

5 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

I wish we saw signs of this, but so far the anti-maskers have shown zero ability to follow rules, make difficult choices or accept consequences.  Quite the opposite, the radical right has turned this into yet another "gimme mah rights!" causes. That's why the tinfoil gang makes a point of harassing staffers at stores, coffee shops, government offices ... they are eager for the confrontations. 

 

Being on a ship is different though. Consequences of being dropped off at the next port pier with their luggage is much harder to resolve for the guest than being pushed out of a Costco, Starbucks etc...

 

5 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

The only way a cruise line could address this satisfactorily is with a true zero-tolerance policy - one onboard warning that is entered into your portfolio, followed for second offenses by confinement to cabin & disembarkation at next port.

 

To satisfy the CDC there is probably a very good chance of this being included in the provisions to sail again. The cruise line will enforce what they implement, because they will not want to risk losing their ability to sail because of a tin foil hat tantrum.

[ONECRUISER]

29 minutes ago, Blondiemomm said:

Crews absolutely. I am talking about paying passengers. 

Yeah, Had just read that yesterday. Legally see Cruise lines mandate it IF they can out of US. Testing, yes will happen. It's easier said then done in US, different Animal here then other Countries. Where I'm at 26-33% people in Medical field have declined Vaccine many as a wait and see. Then Kids, lucky if can get Vaccine and get them covered by Fall 2022. Parents already got theirs but Me, will get it when available but will be this Summer at earliest for my younger/Healthy Group, there's 200+ Million in front of me.

[jean87510]

14 hours ago, cured said:

You do realize that 103 years ago during the 1918 Spanish flu, masks were mandated, schools and public amusement places closed along with other things that are being done during today's pandemic?  Virus knowledge was at its infancy, but even then, the scientists knew that masks contained spread. I am not sure where you get the information that masks and lockdowns are new things for pandemics.

 

As for travel, Airplanes land in a few hours. The people disembark and they are still within hours or even minutes of a hospital if they come down with covid.  The passenger load/risk of transmission changes every few hours. 200 people exposed for 4-6 hours is far different than 2,000 people exposed to the same people for several days.  Additionally, if there is an outbreak on a cruise ship, they are in the middle of the ocean with the dubious task of now finding a port to offload positive cruisers.  

 

It is pretty simple to ascertain the differences between air travel and cruising.

Good thing we social distance now.

[crewsweeper]

For future cruising requirements, look at he latest for airlines.  Negative test 3 days before, regardless of vaccination, and still wear masks at all times. Has to be a "real" mask, not a scarf nor a neck gator, nor a face shield.

[Ocean Boy]

3 hours ago, Blondiemomm said:

You think they will make it mandatory? I really hope they do but I don't see it happening..

If it means an earlier restart or a less restrictive cruise environment then I think the chances are good.

[Mapleleafforever]

3 hours ago, Suncoastsailors said:

I hope RCCL is monitoring this thread. If so they will see there are or will be many vaccinated passengers that would love to get back to cruising. 

That's great and all but, still need crew. Crew who are vaccinated that is. That is gonna take quite some time, think 2022-2023-2024.....no one knows for sure. 

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, Mapleleafforever said:

That's great and all but, still need crew. Crew who are vaccinated that is. That is gonna take quite some time, think 2022-2023-2024.....no one knows for sure. 

I wonder how vaccinated people would feel about a ship with a non-vaccinated crew. The chances of a major cruise malfunction would sure give me second, third, and fourth thoughts about getting on the ship.