Government of Canada announces one-year ban for pleasure craft and cruise vessels

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I think what caught the cruise lines off-guard was the length of the extension from the Canadian Government.  Thus far it has been incremental and reviewed every few months, and my guess is that they expected maybe it be extended to the early part of the AK season like May or June and reviewed again a few months from now.  The fact that this is a blanket ban on one industry for a full 13 months is what is surprising.  It's out of step with what is going on in other travel related sectors of the Canadian government, and with how the cruise industry had been handled thus far.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

I think what caught the cruise lines off-guard was the length of the extension from the Canadian Government.  Thus far it has been incremental and reviewed every few months, and my guess is that they expected maybe it be extended to the early part of the AK season like May or June and reviewed again a few months from now.  The fact that this is a blanket ban on one industry for a full 13 months is what is surprising.  It's out of step with what is going on in other travel related sectors of the Canadian government, and with how the cruise industry had been handled thus far.

Not sure how it is out of step.  Canada tightened several of their restrictions, including forced quarantine hotels for returning citizens around the same time as the extension.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

Not sure how it is out of step.  Canada tightened several of their restrictions, including forced quarantine hotels for returning citizens around the same time as the extension.

 

What seems out of step is the duration, not sure the others go until February 2022.  Also hotels, airlines, etc don't have to completely cease ALL business related to Canada for the summer 2021 season like the cruise lines do.  Much harder for cruise lines to obtain bookings and arrange logistics of provisions, fuel, shore side staffing, excursion operators, etc at short notice should the CA govt relax the restrictions as well.

[nocl]

6 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

What seems out of step is the duration, not sure the others go until February 2022.  Also hotels, airlines, etc don't have to completely cease ALL business related to Canada for the summer 2021 season like the cruise lines do.  Much harder for cruise lines to obtain bookings and arrange logistics of provisions, fuel, shore side staffing, excursion operators, etc at short notice should the CA govt relax the restrictions as well.

Considering that at the same time they were stopping flight from Canada to several countries for the and adding quarantines..  They could have extended it 6 months which would have killed the season anyway. 

 

I expect with the new variants (the reason they put the increased restrictions in place) and with  the fact that most of the vaccine they planned to use  is  AZ which according to a study in South Africa did not show efficacy against that variant, I do not expect Canada to open up this year.  Certainly not soon enough for any cruising this year.

 

Bottom line they extended to next year because that is exactly what they felt to be the soonest something might change.

[HappyInVan]

Right!

 

Guys, we're still fighting the last war. We're out of time.

 

Take note that Brazil has  a new variant that is much more infectious and deadly, and infects people who have had covid19. Means that vax with the old formula is of uncertain value.

 

It's currently raging in the Amazon states where large numbers have previously been infected. Once, it spreads throughout Brazil, it will look like the UK's trajectory. It won't be enough to just close the border to Brazil.

 

"If the city's name sounds familiar, it could be because it was the scene of one of the world's worst Covid-19 outbreaks in April and May. The health care system collapsed and images of thousands of newly dug graves became emblematic of Brazil's coronavirus crisis, its death toll now second only to that of the United States.

The current situation is worse than ever. January has proven to be the deadliest month of the pandemic in Manaus by far.

In May, 348 people were buried here, the worst month until now. Through just the first three weeks of January, that number stood at 1,333."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/americas/manaus-brazil-covid-19-new-variant-intl/index.html

 

IMO, Canada is closing its border  to every country just in time. Anybody with open borders will be in a world of hurt.

 

 

 

 

[Hlitner]

9 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Right!

 

Guys, we're still fighting the last war. We're out of time.

 

Take note that Brazil has  a new variant that is much more infectious and deadly, and infects people who have had covid19. Means that vax with the old formula is of uncertain value.

 

It's currently raging in the Amazon states where large numbers have previously been infected. Once, it spreads throughout Brazil, it will look like the UK's trajectory. It won't be enough to just close the border to Brazil.

 

"If the city's name sounds familiar, it could be because it was the scene of one of the world's worst Covid-19 outbreaks in April and May. The health care system collapsed and images of thousands of newly dug graves became emblematic of Brazil's coronavirus crisis, its death toll now second only to that of the United States.

The current situation is worse than ever. January has proven to be the deadliest month of the pandemic in Manaus by far.

In May, 348 people were buried here, the worst month until now. Through just the first three weeks of January, that number stood at 1,333."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/americas/manaus-brazil-covid-19-new-variant-intl/index.html

 

IMO, Canada is closing its border  to every country just in time. Anybody with open borders will be in a world of hurt.

 

 

 

 

If you are correct then I suppose Canada will just have to keep its borders closed for at least a decade and Canadians will need to stay home for at least that same period of time.   If you assume the virus will continue to mutate and stay ahead of the vaccines, Canadians may have to stay home forever.   Meanwhile I will just have to tough it out, and continue to be cautious, in this world of hurt.   

[HappyInVan]

21 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

If you are correct then I suppose Canada will just have to keep its borders closed for at least a decade and Canadians will need to stay home for at least that same period of time.   If you assume the virus will continue to mutate and stay ahead of the vaccines, Canadians may have to stay home forever.   

 

Not at all! 

 

The purpose of sealing off a country is to get your epidemic under control. Preferably sterilized.

 

Once that's done, form bubbles. There's East Asia and Australasia. The South Pacific. The Scandinavian bubble. There's Hawaii. Aloha!

 

Inevitable that the Chinese will buy cruise ships for pennies. Start their own coastal and trans-Pacific services. Welcome!!!!

 

Canadians will be able to travel with light restrictions to a small number of nice destinations. In time, the bubbles will grow as other countries follow the Australasia model.

 

The problem is that some countries will give up. Closing cities and states repeatedly as hospitals fill up. Chronic covid instead of endemic. Cycles of opening up, shutting down, and vax as they try to keep up.

 

The chronic countries get quarantined by the rest of the world because they are generating new variants. Easier to quarantine them, than vax our population again and again.

 

There must already be several more-contagious variants circulating in the States. Hope that the Brazil variant (more infectious, higher morbidity, able to overcome vax) stays out of North America.  

 

Fortunately, your country is large and you have RVs. Still, you face the same choices as everyone else. Good luck.

 

 

[KirkNC]

As I understand it the strategy needs to be getting the virus under control so you minimize new cases (not eliminate).  Once minimized, the odds of mutations drop accordingly.  Then the virus becomes more of a regular flu or cold.  Remember there are multiple versions of coronavirus already in circulation prior to this one.

[Hlitner]

15 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Not at all! 

 

The purpose of sealing off a country is to get your epidemic under control. Preferably sterilized.

 

Once that's done, form bubbles. There's East Asia and Australasia. The South Pacific. The Scandinavian bubble. There's Hawaii. Aloha!

 

Inevitable that the Chinese will buy cruise ships for pennies. Start their own coastal and trans-Pacific services. Welcome!!!!

 

Canadians will be able to travel with light restrictions to a small number of nice destinations. In time, the bubbles will grow as other countries follow the Australasia model.

 

The problem is that some countries will give up. Closing cities and states repeatedly as hospitals fill up. Chronic covid instead of endemic. Cycles of opening up, shutting down, and vax as they try to keep up.

 

The chronic countries get quarantined by the rest of the world because they are generating new variants. Easier to quarantine them, than vax our population again and again.

 

There must already be several more-contagious variants circulating in the States. Hope that the Brazil variant (more infectious, higher morbidity, able to overcome vax) stays out of North America.  

 

Fortunately, your country is large and you have RVs. Still, you face the same choices as everyone else. Good luck.

 

 

Some of us choose not to live in what you call a "bubble" but rather to live our lives.  While most of us agree that COVID is awful, scary, serious, etc. different folks have different ways to deal with this virus.  Consider that many folks have a real fear of automobile accidents and related death and injury.  Some of those folks stay locked in their home and avoid cars.  But most routinely use cars and minimize their risk with seatbelts and sane driving habits :).  With COVID the virus has already won.  It has spread around the world, is now mutating, and seems to find its way into most places despite are best efforts.  Hopefully a combination of vaccines combined with some natural immunity (mostly in folks who have recovered from the virus) will eventually improve the numbers.  But as you point out, this may take a long time.  Consider that the world has never brought the flu under control but has simply learned to accept the risk, do our best to mitigate without destroying our economy, and get on with our lives.   I believe that we must do something similar with COVID which includes doing our best to mitigate, taking reasonable precautions, getting vaccinated when it is possible, and going on with our lives.  Locking down for years is not, in my opinion, a reasonable solution.  Even if it were to be effective, the damage done to our economy, our children (who have lost  over a year's education), mental health, socialization, etc. is too high a price.  And also consider that COVID will not be the last virus so what happens with the next virus, and the next.  Until COVID we took reasonable precautions and learned to live with the risk.  With COVID I am starting to fear that the "cure" is worse then the virus.  Living with COVID does not mean we should all go out, ignore the risk, be reckless, etc.  But I also do not think it is rational to lock folks down for 1,2,3 or more years.  We need to have a more balanced approach.  So I now sit on my balcony in beautiful Puerto Vallarta where social distancing is relatively easy, most restaurants operate safely, maximizing time outdoors (in fresh breezy air and sunlight) helps mitigate COVID, and we can give support to the local economy that desperately needs our support.  Two weeks ago there were many more Canadians here doing the same thing but most (not all) fled back to Canada because they feared their own government's actions.  What did that accomplish?  Those folks were doing fine here but now they are locking down at home (where the weather is not conducive to being outdoors).  The risk of COVID did not disappear when they went back to Canada, they simply shifted the place of their risk from here to there.  Go figure.

 

And by the way, I believe your country is nearly the same size (in sq miles) as ours.  But does size matter?   🙂

 

 

Hank

[T8NCruise]

Thing argument is getting so old.  Anyone would think that cruising is available all over the world except for being able to go to Alaska with a port stop in Canada.  After all, how dare the Canadian govt take such steps when people south of us want to cruise.  It's nothing to do with health, safety, avoiding more deaths, is it?   Yes, Canada is very slow in rolling out the vaccines, I may not get mine till summer - but the govt has the right to protect the population until such time as all are vaccinated.  At which time, this restriction should be lifted, as is referenced.  Check back in 6 months from now and let us know where else you can cruise.  Be thankful you can still whine about your wants and needs.  So many are no longer here to do so.

[Hlitner]

55 minutes ago, T8NCruise said:

Thing argument is getting so old.  Anyone would think that cruising is available all over the world except for being able to go to Alaska with a port stop in Canada.  After all, how dare the Canadian govt take such steps when people south of us want to cruise.  It's nothing to do with health, safety, avoiding more deaths, is it?   Yes, Canada is very slow in rolling out the vaccines, I may not get mine till summer - but the govt has the right to protect the population until such time as all are vaccinated.  At which time, this restriction should be lifted, as is referenced.  Check back in 6 months from now and let us know where else you can cruise.  Be thankful you can still whine about your wants and needs.  So many are no longer here to do so.

I think you misconstrue much of what has been said on these boards.  Most of us figure that Canada does what Canada does and that is a Canadian issue.  What quite a few of us have proposed is that if Canada turns out to be the only roadblock to Alaskan cruising (and there are currently other roadblocks) that the US should simply waive or amend our own US Law called the PVSA in order to allow cruise ships to bypass Canadian ports when cruising to Alaska.  Bypassing the Canadian ports (i.e. Vancouver and Victoria) would simply be acceding to the policies of Canada which should please most Canadians.  And by the way, Canada is not the only entity slow in rolling out vaccines.  We sure have our own issues trying to get vaccinated in the USA.  And I am currently in Mexico where this country (Mexico) has essentially run out of vaccines before they can even get the 2nd shot into the arms of their healthcare workers.

 

I have previously posted that DW and I really enjoy visiting Canada and spend time in Ontario every year doing a few days of wine tasting with some other friends.  Now we must shift our wine tasting trips to other places (inside the USA) which is fine....but we do miss driving up to your country.

 

Hank

[iancal]

Closing Canadian ports is a done deal for now. Why all the complaining and sniveling about it?  It is done, get over it,  make alternate plans.  This is not exactly the end of the world is it?  Last we heard there are still scheduled flights operating to and within Alaska.  There are also some trains and the occasional ferry.

 

 Perhaps take some time to understand where CDC is on cruises from US ports and the timeframes that this currently implies.  

 

 Canada is a sovereign nation and can  enact any legislation or make regulations all by itself.   Surprisingly, even without input  from CC posters.

Edited February 14, 2021 by iancal

[Aquahound]

49 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I think you misconstrue much of what has been said on these boards. 

 

Not for nothing, but I think a lot has been misconstrued in this thread and on these boards.  I went through and read it again, and there are far more posts bellyaching about folks supposedly insulting Canada than there are posts of people actually insulting Canada.  In fact, other than a China metaphor, the supposed insults aren't even worth mentioning.  Certainly nowhere near the jabs thrown this way over the past year.  Seems to be a lot of easily hurt feelings for some reason.    

Edited February 14, 2021 by Aquahound

[mcrcruiser]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Some of us choose not to live in what you call a "bubble" but rather to live our lives.  While most of us agree that COVID is awful, scary, serious, etc. different folks have different ways to deal with this virus.  Consider that many folks have a real fear of automobile accidents and related death and injury.  Some of those folks stay locked in their home and avoid cars.  But most routinely use cars and minimize their risk with seatbelts and sane driving habits :).  With COVID the virus has already won.  It has spread around the world, is now mutating, and seems to find its way into most places despite are best efforts.  Hopefully a combination of vaccines combined with some natural immunity (mostly in folks who have recovered from the virus) will eventually improve the numbers.  But as you point out, this may take a long time.  Consider that the world has never brought the flu under control but has simply learned to accept the risk, do our best to mitigate without destroying our economy, and get on with our lives.   I believe that we must do something similar with COVID which includes doing our best to mitigate, taking reasonable precautions, getting vaccinated when it is possible, and going on with our lives.  Locking down for years is not, in my opinion, a reasonable solution.  Even if it were to be effective, the damage done to our economy, our children (who have lost  over a year's education), mental health, socialization, etc. is too high a price.  And also consider that COVID will not be the last virus so what happens with the next virus, and the next.  Until COVID we took reasonable precautions and learned to live with the risk.  With COVID I am starting to fear that the "cure" is worse then the virus.  Living with COVID does not mean we should all go out, ignore the risk, be reckless, etc.  But I also do not think it is rational to lock folks down for 1,2,3 or more years.  We need to have a more balanced approach.  So I now sit on my balcony in beautiful Puerto Vallarta where social distancing is relatively easy, most restaurants operate safely, maximizing time outdoors (in fresh breezy air and sunlight) helps mitigate COVID, and we can give support to the local economy that desperately needs our support.  Two weeks ago there were many more Canadians here doing the same thing but most (not all) fled back to Canada because they feared their own government's actions.  What did that accomplish?  Those folks were doing fine here but now they are locking down at home (where the weather is not conducive to being outdoors).  The risk of COVID did not disappear when they went back to Canada, they simply shifted the place of their risk from here to there.  Go figure.

 

And by the way, I believe your country is nearly the same size (in sq miles) as ours.  But does size matter?   🙂

 

 

Hank

Hank thanks for a great explanation  .Perhaps the cruise lines could get a exception to the law that requires a foreign port  for the 2021 Alaska season ?

[Horizon chaser 1957]

14 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

What seems out of step is the duration, not sure the others go until February 2022. 
 

 

In some ways, the February 2022 date is a red herring. The Canadian cruise season runs from May  to the end of September, maybe a couple of New England bound ships leaving Montreal the first few days of October. A ban extension to February 2022 is no different in practice than a ban ending October 2021. 

[KirkNC]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Some of us choose not to live in what you call a "bubble" but rather to live our lives.  While most of us agree that COVID is awful, scary, serious, etc. different folks have different ways to deal with this virus.  Consider that many folks have a real fear of automobile accidents and related death and injury.  Some of those folks stay locked in their home and avoid cars.  But most routinely use cars and minimize their risk with seatbelts and sane driving habits :).  With COVID the virus has already won.  It has spread around the world, is now mutating, and seems to find its way into most places despite are best efforts.  Hopefully a combination of vaccines combined with some natural immunity (mostly in folks who have recovered from the virus) will eventually improve the numbers.  But as you point out, this may take a long time.  Consider that the world has never brought the flu under control but has simply learned to accept the risk, do our best to mitigate without destroying our economy, and get on with our lives.   I believe that we must do something similar with COVID which includes doing our best to mitigate, taking reasonable precautions, getting vaccinated when it is possible, and going on with our lives.  Locking down for years is not, in my opinion, a reasonable solution.  Even if it were to be effective, the damage done to our economy, our children (who have lost  over a year's education), mental health, socialization, etc. is too high a price.  And also consider that COVID will not be the last virus so what happens with the next virus, and the next.  Until COVID we took reasonable precautions and learned to live with the risk.  With COVID I am starting to fear that the "cure" is worse then the virus.  Living with COVID does not mean we should all go out, ignore the risk, be reckless, etc.  But I also do not think it is rational to lock folks down for 1,2,3 or more years.  We need to have a more balanced approach.  So I now sit on my balcony in beautiful Puerto Vallarta where social distancing is relatively easy, most restaurants operate safely, maximizing time outdoors (in fresh breezy air and sunlight) helps mitigate COVID, and we can give support to the local economy that desperately needs our support.  Two weeks ago there were many more Canadians here doing the same thing but most (not all) fled back to Canada because they feared their own government's actions.  What did that accomplish?  Those folks were doing fine here but now they are locking down at home (where the weather is not conducive to being outdoors).  The risk of COVID did not disappear when they went back to Canada, they simply shifted the place of their risk from here to there.  Go figure.

 

And by the way, I believe your country is nearly the same size (in sq miles) as ours.  But does size matter?   🙂

 

 

Hank

I know you won’t agree with the implications of my next statement but you take more risk then most are willing to take in your travels.  In addition, when we look at places to travel to, let’s take Alaska, the testing requirements cause me to quickly lose interest.  I don’t plan on staying locked up either.  We are lucky in that we recently purchased a small cottage on Ocracoke island and are perfectly content enjoying the peace and solitude while we sadly watch the rest of the world slowly implode.

[Hlitner]

14 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I know you won’t agree with the implications of my next statement but you take more risk then most are willing to take in your travels.  In addition, when we look at places to travel to, let’s take Alaska, the testing requirements cause me to quickly lose interest.  I don’t plan on staying locked up either.  We are lucky in that we recently purchased a small cottage on Ocracoke island and are perfectly content enjoying the peace and solitude while we sadly watch the rest of the world slowly implode.

I do agree with you :).  We all have our own degree of risk tolerance which we see whenever we cruise or travel.  What I do find somewhat annoying is the tendency of some folks to try and preach that their way is the right way without allowing for differences in risk tolerance.   So while we decided to accept the risk of spending our winter in our usual place of Puerto Vallarta I would not suggest that this is the best thing for everyone.   Likewise, those who think it is wise to shelter in place at their home should not toss stones at those who are willing to assume some additional risk and travel.   

 

I will say that if cruises were to restart without a 100% mandatory vaccination policy, DW and I would not likely cruise on those voyages.  While we are willing to accept the risk of living here in the winter (where we can social distance and take other reasonable mitigation measures) we are not willing to accept the risk of a cruise where a single case of COVID could immediately end the voyage and/or cause the missing of every port.   By the way, we have never been to Ocracoke Island and hope to get there one day.  For now our island of choice in the Carolina's is Kiawah...which I believe is somewhat more congested then Ocracoke.  

 

Hank

[KirkNC]

2 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I do agree with you :).  We all have our own degree of risk tolerance which we see whenever we cruise or travel.  What I do find somewhat annoying is the tendency of some folks to try and preach that their way is the right way without allowing for differences in risk tolerance.   So while we decided to accept the risk of spending our winter in our usual place of Puerto Vallarta I would not suggest that this is the best thing for everyone.   Likewise, those who think it is wise to shelter in place at their home should not toss stones at those who are willing to assume some additional risk and travel.   

 

I will say that if cruises were to restart without a 100% mandatory vaccination policy, DW and I would not likely cruise on those voyages.  While we are willing to accept the risk of living here in the winter (where we can social distance and take other reasonable mitigation measures) we are not willing to accept the risk of a cruise where a single case of COVID could immediately end the voyage and/or cause the missing of every port.   By the way, we have never been to Ocracoke Island and hope to get there one day.  For now our island of choice in the Carolina's is Kiawah...which I believe is somewhat more congested then Ocracoke.  

 

Hank

I agree with your assessments.  We also are unwilling to cruise without a mandatory vaccination policy for the same reason.

 

Yes Kiawah is nice but much different from Ocracoke.  Kiawah is much more fancy with resorts and golf courses.  None of those on OI and never will be, much more laid back.  Luckily it’s a little hard to get to which protects it a little from the hordes except in the summer.

 

 

[kangforpres]

This from WAPO a few days ago. Regardless of the reasons for Canada to close it's ports and they have very valid reasons at the moment. As I have said on this thread and others another canceled Alaska season will absolutely devastate the South Eastern Alaska economy.

 

Sure it is not always safe or smart to have your economy so dependent on tourism (see also Las Vegas and Hawaii) but before the cruise industry discovered South East Alaska as a tourist destination now some 50 years ago it changed that area forever.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/02/12/alaska-travel-tourism-cruise-covid/

 

-Paul