Should the Covid vaccine be required?

[hogwildcruzers]

2 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Dude!!! That's impressive!!! Sarcopenia isn't in your vocabulary!!! I'd ask if you're a former athlete but it's obvious you are STILL one!! 

 

My men's league hockey team is made up of guys 28-69. The guys over 50 are in the best shape by far....those who get it, get it. 

 

Thank you for the compliment, I try to work out as much as I can and eat right, could do better.....I wish I could play hockey I have always loved watching, but being raised in the south we didn't have any of that here!....best of luck to you on the working out and your hockey!

[broberts]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Carnival ceo has again said he will not mandate vaccines. He wants a level playing field with other travel. Tests can be done, but some cant get vsccines and some states have said vaccines cant be required. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-13/carnival-cruise-ccl-ceo-arnold-donald-on-covid-travel-restrictions

 

So he wants the same rules applied to me when I take a 10 minute taxi somewhere as when Carnival puts 6,000 people in a confined space for 7 days and visits several countries?

 

A level playing field can only exist when one is dealing with the same thing. A single airplane ride is vastly different from a seven day cruise. Anyone who doesn't understand that is truly ignorant.

 

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

We cant even get our own govt to decide lol. If some island decides that, then deal with it then. Let's get cruises restarted on whatever basis cdc will allow. Just not the cso which cruiselines feel is unworkable and amounts to a no sail order.

 

Cdc doesnt want to bend, maybe they feel they will lose face, so perhaps it's not even a issue until the cso expires in Nov. People just want to know. Have cruises treated equal to disney world etc.

 

It's truly hopeless. Explain to me a) how a day at Disney world is the same as seven days at sea; and b) why a state regulated local activity must have the same regulation as an international activity?

[Ocean Boy]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I'm not sure why you are so interested in what I, someone you don't even know, plans to do about his vacation. It doesn't concern you in the least, especially since you asked about the Caribbean and I specifically said we're not going there. But since you insist on hypotheticals by saying "IF the islands say no to ships," etc. I'd say the cruise industry will cross that line when they come to it. Maybe they have excursion bubbles and the unvaccinated aren't allowed ashore. I don't have the answer, DO YOU?

Besides, this is all just your opinion. You and I have ZERO control over what islands will or won't do. NONE.

Everything here is speculation. If you don't care to have a conversation with me about it that is cool.

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

Everything here is speculation. If you don't care to have a conversation with me about it that is cool.

I like having conversations, provided they're with people who don't make snarky remarks like "great way to skirt the issue." 😉 Also people who make grand pronouncements like "no one is going ashore" in the event some people aren't vaccinated. You don't know that, you can't possibly know that. In fact, just the opposite is true: MSC has been running the Grandiosa to multiple ports of call in Europe without vaccinations required. If what you say is true, none of those people would have been allowed to go ashore, but they did. So I guess what I'm saying is, be careful what you claim you know will be true. No one knows for sure what the cruise lines will decide to do.

 

[Ocean Boy]

7 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I like having conversations, provided they're with people who don't make snarky remarks like "great way to skirt the issue." 😉 Also people who make grand pronouncements like "no one is going ashore" in the event some people aren't vaccinated. You don't know that, you can't possibly know that. In fact, just the opposite is true: MSC has been running the Grandiosa to multiple ports of call in Europe without vaccinations required. If what you say is true, none of those people would have been allowed to go ashore, but they did. So I guess what I'm saying is, be careful what you claim you know will be true. No one knows for sure what the cruise lines will decide to do.

 

I didn't proclaim to know anything. I said IF the islands have a requirement. If implies speculation. What is happening in Europe cannot be extrapolated to the Caribbean. The infrastructures are nothing alike. 

 

Sorry, didn't really intend to come across as snarky. I could, and should, have worded it differently.

[mek]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

If you want to live your life that way, always worrying about "what if, what if, what if,"  then you should definitely stay home. I have seen 0 evidence of cruise ships completely stopping and quarantining. Rather than entertain these endless scenarios of "what will you do if," I prefer to look at the evidence. Since cruising restarted last August with the MSC Grandiosa, there have been a handful of people test positive for Covid, while 400,000 passengers have sailed in that time period. Where's the nightmare scenario you envision? Answer: there isn't one. That's why I'm confident about traveling again. I'm vaccinated, I've had Covid already, and my considered opinion is that I have nothing to worry about.

Well good for you if you can just trot off into the sunset and throw all caution to the wind, but I have a husband is handicapped and I always have to take his mobility issues into consideration so I do plan ahead and think about "what if's" because they could turn a nice vacation into an unpleasant experience for both of us.

And don't tell me I should just stay home.

[A&L_Ont]

7 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Carnival ceo has again said he will not mandate vaccines. He wants a level playing field with other travel. Tests can be done, but some cant get vsccines and some states have said vaccines cant be required. 

Fingers crossed that it will work out. I sure don’t want to see anyone stuck on a ship, nor negative press that would follow. 

[hogwildcruzers]

3 hours ago, Missusdubbya said:

You are correct, you probably do know more about US politics than I. However perhaps I can provide a more objective analysis on health agency intent as I am not emotionally invested? I am not trying to be offensive, just making the point that I can have an informed opinion also.
Your opinion is taken and I do like hearing from others, I'm just opposed to the CDC of having anything to do with the cruise industry as are the states that are now bringing lawsuits against the CDC!

 

As an Australian, I apologise - I am sorry that another Australian would run a business in that way. That family is not popular with or respected by many Australians.

 

 

[firefly333]

14 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Fingers crossed that it will work out. I sure don’t want to see anyone stuck on a ship, nor negative press that would follow. 

By the time cdc allows cruises I'm betting deaths near 0 hahahaha. They do tend to error on the side of a log jam. We will be at herd immunity or cdc will keep saying no.

 

Carnival playing both side, they also said whatever regulations are in place they will abide by. So if vaccines required they are good too. Carnival just sits back waiting.

[firefly333]

3 hours ago, Missusdubbya said:

You are correct, you probably do know more about US politics than I. However perhaps I can provide a more objective analysis on health agency intent as I am not emotionally invested? I am not trying to be offensive, just making the point that I can have an informed opinion also.
 

 

As an Australian, I apologise - I am sorry that another Australian would run a business in that way. That family is not popular with or respected by many Australians.

 

Everyone is biased, even you. Posting that you easily found non biased news sources means you dont get it. There are no non biased news sources. On both sides. Telling someone their posts are garbage because you dont agree with them and not apologising for attacking them for non agreeing shows you are biased. People need to agree with you or be attacked.

 

We all have our bias. If you werent biased you wouldnt attack. An unbiased person would be calm and factual not attacking when not agreed with.  I think I'm due a apology for being told my posts were garbage, and when my governor removed the mask mandate again you were jumping on the attack when someone was like I'm not going there, your reply was "OMG me too". How do you think I felt but angry at you? Our deaths were down, our cases were down and for the first time in a year I'm seeing deaths here below 10, not perfect but so much better.

 

If you think news sources are unbiased you dont understand. To attack because you think you know more about america than we do, ... I get it, if someone joins you on the attack it makes you feel good?  State your opinion, support it, but quit attacking and getting nasty. And I'm due a apology for the way you spoke to me. We are all allowed our opinions. ..remember that please. That is the American way. Respect goes 2 ways.

[broberts]

4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

... MSC has been running the Grandiosa to multiple ports of call in Europe without vaccinations required. If what you say is true, none of those people would have been allowed to go ashore, but they did. So I guess what I'm saying is, be careful what you claim you know will be true. No one knows for sure what the cruise lines will decide to do.

 

 

At the moment Grandiosa is calling at several Italian ports and Valletta, Malta. Only residents of Schengen countries are allowed to book. Given the nature of the Schengen zone it is effectively a single country so the example is not really valid.

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by broberts

[Missusdubbya]

50 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Everyone is biased, even you. Posting that you easily found non biased news sources means you dont get it. There are no non biased news sources. On both sides. Telling someone their posts are garbage because you dont agree with them and not apologising for attacking them for non agreeing shows you are biased. People need to agree with you or be attacked.

 

We all have our bias. If you werent biased you wouldnt attack. An unbiased person would be calm and factual not attacking when not agreed with.  I think I'm due a apology for being told my posts were garbage, and when my governor removed the mask mandate again you were jumping on the attack when someone was like I'm not going there, your reply was "OMG me too". How do you think I felt but angry at you? Our deaths were down, our cases were down and for the first time in a year I'm seeing deaths here below 10, not perfect but so much better.

 

If you think news sources are unbiased you dont understand. To attack because you think you know more about america than we do, ... I get it, if someone joins you on the attack it makes you feel good?  State your opinion, support it, but quit attacking and getting nasty. And I'm due a apology for the way you spoke to me. We are all allowed our opinions. ..remember that please. That is the American way. Respect goes 2 ways.

 

I have asked you (on two occasions I think) to not spread misinformation, is this what you are referring to?

 

If it is, I am sorry that this came across as nasty, and I apologise. 

[firefly333]

6 minutes ago, Missusdubbya said:

 

I have asked you (on two occasions I think) to not spread misinformation, is this what you are referring to?

 

If it is, I am sorry that this came across as nasty, and I apologise. 

Again if I dont agree its misinformation. You also said I posted garbage. And when another poster complaining about the texas mask mandate being lifted, and said he wasnt coming to texas, henquoted me. You thought it was cute to say OMG me too. And have also posted you found unbiased news sources. There are no unbiased news sources here. I am entitled to my opinion, without being told its misinformation. Who made you the only correct source of information?

 

If you cant show respect why would you expect to get it? Saying I'm posting misinformation isnt exactly showing you get it. My OPINION is just as valid as yours... and it's a opinion, not factual. 

 

Kinda a lame apology, that now you add in you asked me to quit posting misinformation when I post my OPINION. Please be respectful of others. You are as biased as everyone, as we all are. No one, not even you is without bias. Let others post their opinions and be respectful. I'm done, just thought maybe you were big enough to admit what you said was wrong.

[gmerick]

For folks living in countries where the vaccine is not widely available to the general public (think restricted by age, illness, equity concerns, etc) I have no issue with RCI only permitting vaccinated residents of that country on board, because those people have no choice whether to be vaccinated or not.

For folks living where the vaccine is widely available, they can make a free choice whether or not to vaccinate based on their own health concerns, or concerns about vaccines.  These people should have no restriction on vaccination status or virus screening status.  

[Ellaleah]

I am believe and hope that all cruise lines will require vaccine and I certainly hope we will have vaccine passports.  I think we have a right to know if the others are vaccinated.  

Tge survey on this board shows that 83.5% of cruisers are willing to get a vaccine to cruise. I think people that refuse vaccinated should not be rewarded with getting on the cruise.  They want the rest of us to get vaccinated so they can benefit from the herd immunity that we created.  I have 6 people booked on a cruise and I think I would cancel if vaccinations are not mandatory.  I think there might be others like me!

[firefly333]

3 hours ago, Ellaleah said:

I am believe and hope that all cruise lines will require vaccine and I certainly hope we will have vaccine passports.  I think we have a right to know if the others are vaccinated.  

Tge survey on this board shows that 83.5% of cruisers are willing to get a vaccine to cruise. I think people that refuse vaccinated should not be rewarded with getting on the cruise.  They want the rest of us to get vaccinated so they can benefit from the herd immunity that we created.  I have 6 people booked on a cruise and I think I would cancel if vaccinations are not mandatory.  I think there might be others like me!

The airlines dont want the extra work of checking vaccine passports. They say they do too much volumn to check so many people. The cdc says they wouldnt mandate a vaccine passport. Two states said no. It was a NY idea that only cruisers here seem to keep wanting. Name another industry that supports these passports.,none. Of course no other industry has been stopped but cruising so maybe that's why only some cruisers want this passport idea. 

 

Most cruisers support mandatory vaccines per surveys. I cant see the us doing vaccine passports only to restart cruising. The airlines are against them. Airlines say it would slow down air travel. I cant see those senators voting for something that would slow down air travel. 

[A&L_Ont]

10 hours ago, firefly333 said:

By the time cdc allows cruises I'm betting deaths near 0 hahahaha. They do tend to error on the side of a log jam. We will be at herd immunity or cdc will keep saying no.

This has been my thought all along. 

 

Quote

Carnival playing both side, they also said whatever regulations are in place they will abide by. So if vaccines required they are good too. Carnival just sits back waiting.

This might be Carnivals way of getting more deposits from those not wanting to take the vaccine, without knowing the answer yet from the CDC. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

Most cruisers support mandatory vaccines per surveys. I cant see the us doing vaccine passports only to restart cruising. The airlines are against them. Airlines say it would slow down air travel. I cant see those senators voting for something that would slow down air travel. 

Obviously airlines are against them, it is more work for them. More time is money lost in profit. Sick passengers or not they just drop their guests off in a few hours. What happens to those guests afterwards is no concern to them.
 

For international flights coming into Canada, example being Germany, for at least a decade if not more airlines confirm actual passports to flight documents of some non-Canadians to curb illegal immigration.  I can’t think we are the only country doing this.  It is a quick check prior to boarding the plane. It would certainly take longer for a vaccine passport to check all guests, but it is an example for international travel.
 

We never had to take our shoes off for security screening before the shoe bomber but air travel just takes a bit longer.  Lot’s changed due to terrorism regarding air travel, would health security for international flights matter that much to protect your country?  As for interstate air travel, it would be a waste of time. 

[broberts]

I think the airlines are more against having to bear the cost of a proof of vaccination than the actual implementation. In fact 22 airlines are currently testing the IATA Travel Pass.

 

Travel passes would not slow down air travel. After all airlines already verify passports and photo ID.

[vacationlover_mn]

On 3/25/2021 at 10:18 AM, cruisinggrandma57 said:

If you had the virus why do you need the vaccine?  

My goddaughter actually caught covid twice (months apart).  We speculate that they were different variants, but don’t know for sure.  She is 22, in good health, and is getting the vaccine to help prevent catching and spreading other variants.  

[DCGuy64]

11 hours ago, broberts said:

 

At the moment Grandiosa is calling at several Italian ports and Valletta, Malta. Only residents of Schengen countries are allowed to book. Given the nature of the Schengen zone it is effectively a single country so the example is not really valid.

 

 

 

Moving the goalposts, eh? Nope, I don't think so. The Schengen Zone is only a term for a geographic area comprising, I believe, a couple dozen countries. Having been to many of them, I can most assuredly tell you that they are NOT "effectively a single country." My example was given in order to refute the notion that allowing unvaccinated people onboard cruise ships would "inevitably" result in massive virus outbreaks and quarantined ships. Didn't happen. My example stands and is valid, even if you refuse to acknowledge it. Believe whatever you want, dude.

[DCGuy64]

15 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

What is happening in Europe cannot be extrapolated to the Caribbean.

Again, your opinion only. Europe isn't the Caribbean, and neither is Asia or South America. So what? Cruise ships (before last year, anyway) were able to successfully complete cruises all over the world, regardless of the differences in infrastructure. One thing becomes clear when debating these issues, and that is that if a cruise line experiences a problem with Covid-19, people immediately extrapolate that and say it MUST apply everywhere, since it happened somewhere. But if the outcome is positive, the same people try and explain away the good news by pointing to ultimately irrelevant differences in culture, etc. I'm really tired of arguing with you, so let's just drop this, shall we? Have a good day. Hope you have a nice cruise wherever it may be. I'm done. Bye.

[Ocean Boy]

20 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Again, your opinion only. Europe isn't the Caribbean, and neither is Asia or South America. So what? Cruise ships (before last year, anyway) were able to successfully complete cruises all over the world, regardless of the differences in infrastructure. One thing becomes clear when debating these issues, and that is that if a cruise line experiences a problem with Covid-19, people immediately extrapolate that and say it MUST apply everywhere, since it happened somewhere. But if the outcome is positive, the same people try and explain away the good news by pointing to ultimately irrelevant differences in culture, etc. I'm really tired of arguing with you, so let's just drop this, shall we? Have a good day. Hope you have a nice cruise wherever it may be. I'm done. Bye.

Bye.

[BeachyBrowns]

On 3/21/2021 at 8:17 AM, WorldTraveler151208 said:

Do you think it's fair that the RCCL and Celebrity Cruises already require the Covid-19 vaccine for the Odyssey, Adventure, and Millennium cruises, given that currently in most countries younger people don't have the chance to get vaccinated even if they want?  For example in many European Union countries  and Canada, the vaccination process is very slow.  Most people will probably not be able to get vaccinated in the coming months, and Odyssey of the seas sailing in Israel and Greece since May will accept only fully vaccinated guests. Isn't that a kind of discrimination?

It is discrimination in a sense, but it's not discrimination against a marginalized group.  No one is being oppressed.

 

That said, the cries of discrimination, oppression, and bias against vaccine-hesitant people are EXACTLY what the CDC and the cruise lines don't want to have to deal with, even though such claims of unfair treatment are ludicrous.  They don't want to be seen to be contributing to the stratification of society along Covid lines.  So, even though vaccination is the overwhelming factor in the safe restart of cruising, they don't want to mandate it.

[DCGuy64]

Given that cruise lines have sailings all over the world, it will be interesting to see how the vaccination "requirement," if there is one, will be impacted by decisions like this one:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/council-of-eu-agrees-on-digital-vaccine-certificate-insists-it-must-not-become-a-precondition-for-travel/

"Last Tuesday, April 13, MEPs of the Civil Liberties Committee have quizzed the European Union Commissioner for Justice Didier Reynders on the Digital Green Certificate initiative. They have also insisted that the Commission must not permit the certificates to become a ‘de facto’ precondition for travelling throughout Europe."

 

It isn't clear to me whether cruise ships calling at various ports throughout Europe would constitute "travelling" as defined by the EU Council. Perhaps they're only referring to the freedom of people to move about by car, airplane, train, bus and ferry. I don't know if leisure cruising would meet that definition or not. But if it does, it would be very tricky for RCCL and others to insist that all passengers have a vaccine certificate in order to board a ship.