EU: Digital Green Certificates For Travel

[Daniel A]

According to the European Union: "the European Commission is proposing to create a Digital Green Certificate to facilitate safe free movement inside the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic. The Digital Green Certificate will be a proof that a person has been vaccinated against COVID-19, received a negative test result or recovered from COVID-19. It will be available, free of charge, in digital or paper format. "

 

Coronavirus: Commission proposes a Digital Green Certificate (europa.eu)

[floridatravelersforlife]

So now New York State is preparing its own Vax Passports.   And I am sure others will follow. Can you imagine the confusion with multiple proofs of vaccination from around the world?  The old yellow card was universal and it worked.  

 

I guess I'll carry all the emails to prove I got the vax.

[patty1955]

40 minutes ago, floridatravelersforlife said:

So now New York State is preparing its own Vax Passports.   And I am sure others will follow. Can you imagine the confusion with multiple proofs of vaccination from around the world?  The old yellow card was universal and it worked.  

 

I guess I'll carry all the emails to prove I got the vax.

Didn't you get the CDC Covid-19 Vaccination Record Card?

[bigmjh]

1 hour ago, patty1955 said:

Didn't you get the CDC Covid-19 Vaccination Record Card?

Those CDC Covid-19 Vaccination Record cards are already being faked and sold on social media. Without some centralized, accessible, digital database - much like passports - there's little value to those cards.

[patty1955]

1 hour ago, bigmjh said:

Those CDC Covid-19 Vaccination Record cards are already being faked and sold on social media. Without some centralized, accessible, digital database - much like passports - there's little value to those cards.

Passport and driver licenses are faked too but they are still used. 

My vaccine records are also on my state's website. 

[azdrydock]

24 minutes ago, patty1955 said:

Passport and driver licenses are faked too but they are still used. 

My vaccine records are also on my state's website. 

Difference is your drivers license and passport  are stored in a centralized data base and can be quickly verified. If your state does have it on a website I am sure there are HIPPA rules that prohibit anyone other then yourself from seeing it. Although many states do keep vaccination records they are not necessarily uniform or readily accessible. 

 

There is nothing to say that a cruise line can't accept the cards as adequate proof and then in the event of an "incident" sue you for presenting a fraudulent document. 

[Daniel A]

2 minutes ago, azdrydock said:

There is nothing to say that a cruise line can't accept the cards as adequate proof and then in the event of an "incident" sue you for presenting a fraudulent document. 

Yes, but what about the rest of us who have had their cruise terminated early?  Or maybe because of contact tracing some other cruisers put in quarantine?  You can't get blood out of a stone.

[1985rz1]

49 minutes ago, azdrydock said:

Difference is your drivers license and passport  are stored in a centralized data base and can be quickly verified. If your state does have it on a website I am sure there are HIPPA rules that prohibit anyone other then yourself from seeing it. Although many states do keep vaccination records they are not necessarily uniform or readily accessible. 

 

There is nothing to say that a cruise line can't accept the cards as adequate proof and then in the event of an "incident" sue you for presenting a fraudulent document. 

Our state has a centralized vaccine database which I can access and can download an official record.  It has all my vaccinations going back to my Yellow Fever shot.  I have a paper copy with my passport and pdf versions on my phone and in secure cloud site. I can access the state database on my phone in real time, if necessary...if I have data service of some sort.

[azdrydock]

16 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Yes, but what about the rest of us who have had their cruise terminated early?  Or maybe because of contact tracing some other cruisers put in quarantine?  You can't get blood out of a stone.

Even if everyone on the ship is vaccinated there is always a chance of a few coming down with the virus. They would be isolated and it is unlikely the cruise would be terminated or the rest of the vaccinated  be quarantined (IMHO). I don't think think there would be a significant number of cheaters to alter things.

 

I am all for a vaccine or green passport but do you think it is realistic we will have one in the near future? Hmmmm ..... maybe if the CDC proposed restarting cruises only for those with Green passports there would widespread support?

[azdrydock]

8 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

Our state has a centralized vaccine database which I can access and can download an official record.  It has all my vaccinations going back to my Yellow Fever shot.  I have a paper copy with my passport and pdf versions on my phone and in secure cloud site. I can access the state database on my phone in real time, if necessary...if I have data service of some sort.

The fact that you have a pdf of the record does not prove it was not forged or altered. In AZ your health provider or school, who you have given permission to can independently verify the data. Can you imagine the embarkation process of verifying people from 50 different states plus foreign countries.

I worked in an environment that required all visitors to be verified. Anyone with a passport or drivers license was verified in under 10 seconds and the same would be true with a vaccine passport.

[1985rz1]

26 minutes ago, azdrydock said:

The fact that you have a pdf of the record does not prove it was not forged or altered. In AZ your health provider or school, who you have given permission to can independently verify the data. Can you imagine the embarkation process of verifying people from 50 different states plus foreign countries.

I worked in an environment that required all visitors to be verified. Anyone with a passport or drivers license was verified in under 10 seconds and the same would be true with a vaccine passport.

Yes, of course, as a paper document, it can be forged, but not as easily as the CDC card as it does have a complex printed background.  But i was thinking more that it provides a higher level of proof than the CDC card when applying for a vaccine passport..  And, as you state I can give permission to the passport provider to access the records or alternatively have them sent a CDA document that can be used by authorized persons to exchange health records.  For me the point is I can provide a range of documentation to obtain a vaccine passport, which I believe would be the goal.

[Host Jazzbeau]

The gold standard will be an App with a QR code that links directly to a government database to verify the vaccine.  But that will be impossible for everyone – and for some countries that may not have internet service at every entry point – so paper back-ups will be necessary.  [I'm thinking of our AmaWaterways cruise in Africa when we went back and forth between Namibia and Botswana several times a day at remote border posts.  There must be many other places like that.]

[azdrydock]

Hopefully the ship, in conjunction with the local authorities, could generate the necessary paperwork.  Besides lack of internet some checkpoints we have gone through could not read or understand English.

[Daniel A]

11 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

The gold standard will be an App with a QR code that links directly to a government database to verify the vaccine.  

According to an article in USA today, "the Biden administration says it wants to leave vaccine passports to the private and nonprofit sectors – the White House has said that any certification process must be free, equitable, safe and private."

 

COVID vaccine passports: New York first with vaccination proof system (usatoday.com)

 

[pinotlover]

We certainly can’t and shouldn’t wait for the “ perfect “ system to restart cruising or any other activities. Any such passport is years away here in the US. 
 

Make the penalty for committing fraud for submitting false medical data so onerous only the ignorant will attempt it. Likewise, require medical clearance to sail from a medical professional with the identical penalties for fraudulent submissions.

[mrlevin]

All they have to do is scan each passenger at boarding to read the implanted chip verifying vaccination.

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, mrlevin said:

All they have to do is scan each passenger at boarding to read the implanted chip verifying vaccination.

Careful, some here are slow at picking up on irony and humor! 😂

[cbb]

WaPo article on push for vaccine passports--and the challenges faced.  (May not be able to read this if you don't have a subscription.)

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/03/28/vaccine-passports-for-work/

Edited March 28, 2021 by cbb

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, mrlevin said:

All they have to do is scan each passenger at boarding to read the implanted chip verifying vaccination.

 

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

Careful, some here are slow at picking up on irony and humor! 😂

I got it right away - through the chip in my arm.  Also get a great oldies station.  Really good side effects; I hope the anti-Covid effect is as strong... 😉

[Tranquility Base]

I would expect there to be a range of verification requirements around the world.

Some countries will be strict with  digital requirements, some will be OK with some info written on a local card.

 

This situation has been an issue for a while and is now getting a lot of attention.

 

Another issue is vaccine booster requirements.

Already the UK is talking about booster jabs for some groups as early as September to help protect against variants.

 

A lot of work ahead worldwide on this issue.

 

[LHT28]

This is why  they need an International Covid  passport  to tell if people have had the vaccine or not

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/canada-fraudulent-covid-tests-border-1.5966707

 

Our numbers are going up daily here in Ontario  ..not just from border cheaters  😲

 

[floridatravelersforlife]

 

Whatever and whomever issues digital vax certification, This  validation  has to be borne by the Cruise ship. 

 

Imagine a cruise ship full of pax from all different countries docking, say the Maldives, and the pax line up at the customs desk with some poor soul trying to figure out 20 different countries and maybe 30 different US digital certificates. 

 

That's not going to happen .

 

I shudder to think what will happen on the upcoming test cruises.

[Daniel A]

25 minutes ago, floridatravelersforlife said:

 

Whatever and whomever issues digital vax certification, This  validation  has to be borne by the Cruise ship. 

 

Imagine a cruise ship full of pax from all different countries docking, say the Maldives, and the pax line up at the customs desk with some poor soul trying to figure out 20 different countries and maybe 30 different US digital certificates. 

 

That's not going to happen .

 

I shudder to think what will happen on the upcoming test cruises.

I've never needed to produce any vaccination proofs when disembarking a cruise ship, but it wouldn't be that difficult work out where the ship's captain furnishes a certification that all PAX presented proof of vaccination so as not to overwhelm the port authorities.

[pinotlover]

33 minutes ago, floridatravelersforlife said:

 

Whatever and whomever issues digital vax certification, This  validation  has to be borne by the Cruise ship. 

 

Imagine a cruise ship full of pax from all different countries docking, say the Maldives, and the pax line up at the customs desk with some poor soul trying to figure out 20 different countries and maybe 30 different US digital certificates. 

 

That's not going to happen .

 

I shudder to think what will happen on the upcoming test cruises.

Doubt it will happen that way. Before docking, the ships will be required to provide verification that all passengers and crew aboard have been vaccinated. Any cruise line caught providing false information will be dealt with.

 

Additionally, remember that starting this Fall all US citizens will need Visas to enter the EU. Chances are huge that once Europe allows in US tourists, providing proof of vaccinations will be part of the Visa process. This will become true for more countries for which visas are required.

Edited March 28, 2021 by pinotlover

[Tranquility Base]

Might we see cruises with various vaccination validation verification ? ( I ran out of alliteration )

 

EG: Class A validation

       Class B validation

       Class C validation

 

The cruise line publishes an itinerary  based an each country's requirement on that itinerary.

They then make it a requirement for boarding that you have the appropriate class of validation.

 

Happens now.

Some cruises don't require passports, most do.

Some cruises may only require a signed card, others may require a secure digital verification.

 

I think the airlines will be the leaders here, well before cruise ships head out on an ATW itinerary.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Tranquility Base