Latest CDC Update - No Simulation Voyages

[HBCcruiser]

This article answers a lot of questions raised on this thread:

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=6078&source=99362

[neilrr]

20 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

This article answers a lot of questions raised on this thread:

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=6078&source=99362

Thank you... That article did answer a lot of questions... We are still taking a wait and see attitude. Let's see what happens in the first couple of months after cruising resumes and how everything shakes out.

I like to be on the leading edge not the bleeding edge...

 

Hope to see everyone soon...😊🛳️ 

[Ombud]

1 hour ago, Ombud said:

Agreed. 2% maximum unvaccinated pax capacity of 3080 (Ruby Princess 4/11/22) is only 62 kids under 16. Seems reasonable 

Oops. Per latest CC Article its 98% crew (guess India is out & Philippines is up) / 95% pax / 154 unvax (kids?) on Ruby during School Break

[Babr]

The article doesn’t completely answer the question of quarantine. 
 

As a fully-vaccinated person, I probably would not have given it much thought except that a friend of mine, who is also fully vaccinated, recently tested positive during check-in for a routine medical test. The procedure was cancelled, and she was sent home to quarantine. It came as a complete surprise because she never had any symptoms.

 

I suppose the same thing could happen to anyone checking in for a cruise. People who flew in for the cruise would have to quarantine in a hotel, but there were no details about how that would be carried out. I suppose they would be monitored by the health department, and the individual would bear the cost. 
 

I understand the need for that. I just don’t want to be caught up in it. There doesn’t seem to be a way to ensure you won’t, whether at embarkation or disembarkation.

[CruisinChandler]

1 hour ago, Ombud said:

Whatever the reason I am more confident that I will cruise in 2021. 

Same here! Confident enough that we booked our first Princess cruise for later this year. We are hopeful and excited!

[HBCcruiser]

10 minutes ago, Babr said:

understand the need for that. I just don’t want to be caught up in it. There doesn’t seem to be a way to ensure you won’t, whether at embarkation or disembarkation.

I think it will depend on the cruiseline. RCI, for example, will cover all costs. 
Hopefully Princess will follow a similar protocol once they resume sailing in the US. 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/the-healthy-sail-center

[Babr]

8 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

I think it will depend on the cruiseline. RCI, for example, will cover all costs. 
Hopefully Princess will follow a similar protocol once they resume sailing in the US. 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/the-healthy-sail-center

Well, that helps a lot. It appears to be included in the cruise fare for all passengers not related to insurance purchased separately.

 

I also see that it is time limited. The cruise lines can’t afford to cover that risk indefinitely, but I do think it is necessary to get things started.

These early cruises will give us a better idea of how often fully vaccinated people test positive.

 

 

[HBCcruiser]

5 minutes ago, Babr said:

started.

These early cruises will give us a better idea of how often fully vaccinated people test positive.

I’ll be on a July 17, 2021 RCI cruise posting live daily so I will let you know how it goes. 😎

Edited April 30, 2021 by HBCcruiser

[harkinmr]

17 hours ago, Earthworm Jim said:

I know nothing of the subject personally, but from reports I've read some experts seem to think the vaccine passport ban for cruises would lose in court because, as I understand it, the ports are officially under federal jurisdiction. Unfortunately though even a favorable court ruling would likely take significant time and perhaps delay the resumption of cruises.

MANY legal experts believe that the Governor's "ban" would be unenforceable against the cruise lines based on maritime law and federal law controlling.  Wouldn't it be ironic if a protracted legal battle with the Governor prevented cruising from starting from Florida ports, even as he spends so much time and legal effort to try to to force just that.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Edited April 30, 2021 by harkinmr

[Ken the cruiser]

11 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

MANY legal experts believe that the Governor's "ban" would be unenforceable against the cruise lines based on maritime law and federal law controlling.  Wouldn't it be ironic if a protracted legal battle with the Governor prevented cruising from starting from Florida ports, even as he spends so much time and legal effort to try to to force just that.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Here's what @Homosassaposted the the Vaccine thread earlier which I thought was very informative. It sure eased our worries about the new Florida law interfering with cruises potential for starting back up in Florida.

 

"For those of you worrying about that proposed Florida bill, I am copying the pertinent parts of another post I made on the subject.

 

" I read the proposed bill. It covers the formation of a public health emergency plan. A section of the bill includes the requirement when necessary to protect public health that testing for a disease, quarantine and vaccination be mandatory.

 

The section that the OP refers to has exactly the same loophole that the executive order has concerning the requirement of Covid 19 disease status and vaccination. 

 

If such information is a federal or state requirement, then it the requiring of the information is mandatory.  

 

To put it in cruise terms, if the CDC comes to an agreement with a cruise line where vaccination is a requirement for cruising, then that agreement supersedes any posturing by the state of Florida on forbidding the information to conduct business.

 

Here is the applicable text from the proposed bill:

 

381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.—  (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include  any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or  customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 817 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry  upon, or service from the business' operations in this state.  This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (2) A governmental entity, as defined in s. 768.38, may not require any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or  post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the governmental entity's operations in this state

This subsection does not otherwise restrict governmental entities from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (3) An educational institution, as defined in s. 768.38, 830 may not require students or residents to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection  recovery for attendance or enrollment, or to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the educational institution in this  state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict educational  institutions from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (4) A violation of this section may result in a fine imposed by the department, not to exceed $5,000 per violation.(5) This section does not apply to a health care provider  as defined in s. 768.38; a provider licensed or certified under  s. 393.17, part III of chapter 401, or part IV of chapter 468; or a provider with an active health care clinic exemption under 843 s. 400.9935.""

Edited April 30, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[Ombud]

1 hour ago, Babr said:

...There doesn’t seem to be a way to ensure you won’t, whether at embarkation or disembarkation.

Except the earlier articles on CC, USA Today, & WSJ state (from USAToday): "vaccinated passengers can take a rapid antigen test upon embarkation." Nothing is 100% foolproof but as your friend showed the vaccines protect against severe cases requiring hospitalization. Good enough for me .... 1&Done.

 

[harkinmr]

8 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

If such information is a federal or state requirement, then it the requiring of the information is mandatory.  To put it in cruise terms, if the CDC comes to an agreement with a cruise line where vaccination is a requirement for cruising, then that agreement supersedes any posturing by the state of Florida on forbidding the information to conduct business.

Thank you, Ken.  I think this assessment is right as the ban cannot interfere with any federal law or  requirement.  The issue remains though that the vaccinated sailings will not be under a federal mandate.  The CDC is simply giving the cruise lines the option to require vaccines or not, which then circles back to Florida's contention that it can restrict a business from requiring it.

 

I still think that the ban is unenforceable on its face against the cruise lines because of maritime law and the international nature of its business.  The Governor, so far, seems to be sticking to his guns that nothing in his order or the legislation would exclude the cruise lines from the ban.  Hopefully he backs down and doesn't force a lengthy legal battle over it.

[Babr]

2 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Except the earlier articles on CC, USA Today, & WSJ state (from USAToday): "vaccinated passengers can take a rapid antigen test upon embarkation." Nothing is 100% foolproof but as your friend showed the vaccines protect against severe cases requiring hospitalization. Good enough for me .... 1&Done.

 

A surprise positive result upon embarkation is the problem because it would prevent you from being allowed to go on the trip and would require quarantine. I was never worried about getting severe disease, only about being a possible spreader.

 

Imagine the disappointment of being denied boarding if you had no reason to expect that.  Having to quarantine in a hotel for ten days or so and having to get yourself home at your own expense only adds insult to injury. The RCI policy mitigates that, but I don’t know what Princess is doing. Of course, nothing is foolproof so I’m content to wait it out for a while to see how often fully-vaccinated people test positive.

[Ombud]

I'm wondering if I take a test here before heading to the port (free at Kaiser) and it's positive --- would I get FCC?   Might be worth1pwhile to get tested before I show up at the cruise port

[Ken the cruiser]

27 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Thank you, Ken.  I think this assessment is right as the ban cannot interfere with any federal law or  requirement.  The issue remains though that the vaccinated sailings will not be under a federal mandate.  The CDC is simply giving the cruise lines the option to require vaccines or not, which then circles back to Florida's contention that it can restrict a business from requiring it.

 

I still think that the ban is unenforceable on its face against the cruise lines because of maritime law and the international nature of its business.  The Governor, so far, seems to be sticking to his guns that nothing in his order or the legislation would exclude the cruise lines from the ban.  Hopefully he backs down and doesn't force a lengthy legal battle over it.

Well, for us, we're keeping a positive frame of mind until we hear the cruise lines start screaming that they are not allowed to apply to bypass the simulated cruises because Florida law prohibits them from asking a passenger for vaccination proof.

 

But, I have a question. Where does the Florida jurisdiction stop, at the base of the gangway of a ship or when the ship leaves the port? In other words is the ship sitting in US territorial waters when docked or is it in Florida controlled waters?

 

The reason I ask is because when we cruise with Crystal, we usually check in onboard rather than at the terminal, which might create some interesting scenarios depending on the answer.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[Babr]

6 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Well, for us, we're keeping a positive frame of mind until we hear the cruise lines start screaming that they are not allowed to apply to bypass the simulated cruises because Florida law prohibits them from asking a passenger for vaccination proof.

 

But, I have a question. Where does the Florida jurisdiction stop, at the base of the gangway of a ship or when the ship leaves the port? In other words is the ship sitting in US territorial waters when docked or is it in Florida controlled waters?

 

An important question.

 

How does that relate to the fact that Florida can collect tax on drinks while the ship is in port?

 

And didn’t the governor initially deny docking to ships carrying Covid positive patients when the pandemic began?

 

[beg3yrs]

Regarding the potential Florida ban on requiring evidence of vaccination, simply have the passengers provide vaccination to the Santa Clarita HQ in California some predetermined amount of time before sailing, otherwise bookings are canceled. No evidence of vaccination would be required or accepted in Florida.

[PrincessLuver]

2 hours ago, Babr said:

 

An important question.

 

How does that relate to the fact that Florida can collect tax on drinks while the ship is in port?

 

And didn’t the governor initially deny docking to ships carrying Covid positive patients when the pandemic began?

 

 

The prediction is now that the US will not/never reach herd immunity because of vaccine hesitancy and what states like Florida and others are doing politically.  

 

The prediction is that the Covid-19 virus will continue to mutate into other variants and the vaccinations we have used now will not be effective in the near future.  

 

So, I am sure we are just shooting ourselves in the foot and we may never end up cruising!

 

Friends don't let friends get Covid..............

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/28/health/covid-vaccine-myths-debunked/index.html

Edited April 30, 2021 by PrincessLuver

[JABTPS]

2 hours ago, Ombud said:

I'm wondering if I take a test here before heading to the port (free at Kaiser) and it's positive --- would I get FCC?

Check you local Walgreens for free testing that meets FCC and CDC requirements.

[Babr]

5 minutes ago, JABTPS said:

Check you local Walgreens for free testing that meets FCC and CDC requirements.

It depends on whether a test is required as part of the check in process or if a recent test is acceptable.  Has that been determined yet?

[Ombud]

Not exactly  .... I was talking about a test before taking a flight to the port then repeating the test at embarkation 

[Babr]

8 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Not exactly  .... I was talking about a test before taking a flight to the port then repeating the test at embarkation 

That probably would work because I think it takes several days after exposure to test positive. If you were exposed in transit, it likely would not show up in another test given within a day or two.

 

 

[Syracusefan44]

Cruise ship crew began receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at Port Canaveral today, making it the first US port to facilitate vaccination for seafarers.

 

This became possible after Florida expanded vaccine eligibility to include individuals who are in the state for the purpose of providing goods or services to benefit residents and visitors. 

[harkinmr]

2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Well, for us, we're keeping a positive frame of mind until we hear the cruise lines start screaming that they are not allowed to apply to bypass the simulated cruises because Florida law prohibits them from asking a passenger for vaccination proof.

 

But, I have a question. Where does the Florida jurisdiction stop, at the base of the gangway of a ship or when the ship leaves the port? In other words is the ship sitting in US territorial waters when docked or is it in Florida controlled waters?

 

The reason I ask is because when we cruise with Crystal, we usually check in onboard rather than at the terminal, which might create some interesting scenarios depending on the answer.

It is a combination of interests at the port; local, state and federal.  The focus really is on whether DeSantis has any authority over interstate or international commerce.  And the consensus is that he does not.  I still come back to the question of why he would stay on this agenda that he has to dictate what the cruise lines can do when at the very same moment he demands that cruising from Florida open up.  Obviously, this is all very driven by his politics and ambitions.  That's all well and good for him I guess, but is he going to force a battle to the death when the possibility of a restart is at his fingertips.  I would hope not, but I would not be surprised either.

[harkinmr]

14 minutes ago, Syracusefan44 said:

Cruise ship crew began receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at Port Canaveral today, making it the first US port to facilitate vaccination for seafarers.

 

This became possible after Florida expanded vaccine eligibility to include individuals who are in the state for the purpose of providing goods or services to benefit residents and visitors. 

Good.  Then the Governor should immediately drop his assertion that cruise lines cannot require vaccines.  If we can provide international crew with vaccines, then there should be no ban.