Judge Denied CDC request to keep Covid-19 Cruising restrictions.

[cruisingguy007]

6 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

If only they worked with the cruise lines instead of against them (which the judge ruled as true).  The CSO will wither up and die as the legal ping pong continues.  By end of third quarter, pandemic declared over the CDC crawls back to their cave.  

 

If they end the CSO and it's successful protocols, that have obviously worked well by all accounts, how long would the protocols last? The protocols are probably saving them from themselves, and investors for that matter, as there would be tremendous pressure to reduce costs and maximize income (free for all). If anyone thinks that the lines can return to normal (presently) and sail successfully with unrestricted sailing and no oversight, you are kidding yourselves. Many states simply wouldn't allow it, covid ships might be ok in some states but not most, not to mention, port countries would deny these ships as well. The stock would tank and the lines could be shut down all over again and would likely end up bankrupt. Self regulation and unbridled capitalism will ensure it. Longevity plays second fiddle when extracting profits becomes the sole propriety.       

Edited July 10, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[jimbo5544]

9 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

If they end the CSO and it's successful protocols, that have obviously worked well by all accounts, how long would the protocols last? The protocols are probably saving them from themselves, and investors for that matter, as there would be tremendous pressure to reduce costs and maximize income (free for all). If anyone thinks that the lines can return to normal (presently) and sail successfully with unrestricted sailing and no oversight, you are kidding yourselves. Many states simply wouldn't allow it, covid ships might be ok in some states but not most, not to mention, port countries would deny these ships as well. The stock would tank and the lines could be shut down all over again and would likely end up bankrupt. Self regulation and unbridled capitalism will ensure it. Longevity plays second fiddle when extracting profits becomes the sole propriety.       

Interesting you deciding they will fail.  What makes the existing protocols work is the cruise lines.  They are doing all the work.  Free for all….. really?  The lcdc has failed them miserably, making them the savior is a joke.      

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Interesting you deciding they will fail.  What makes the existing protocols work is the cruise lines.  They are doing all the work.  Free for all….. really?  The lcdc has failed them miserably, making them the savior is a joke.      

 

The proof is in the successful sailings. The protocols are working. Not even sure what people are angry about anymore, well except the folks that don't want to get vaccinated. Everyone else should be thrilled at the successful restart. Crying about the CDC trying to protect passengers is pointless at this point. The party has started and everyone is having fun. What good can the lawsuit accomplish at this point? 

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

The proof is in the successful sailings. The protocols are working. Not even sure what people are angry about anymore, well except the folks that don't want to get vaccinated. Everyone else should be thrilled at the successful restart. Crying about the CDC trying to protect passengers is pointless at this point. The party has started and everyone is having fun. What good can the lawsuit accomplish at this point? 

I am upset about nothing.  I am crying about nothing. The facts the Cdc failed and failed big time.  The lawsuit got things moving.  Look at the dates.  After Desantis took them on, they started moving.  If he had not, there would not be any ships sailed.   The lawsuit gave them the ability to move forward.  Without the lawsuit, the same over reaching, untenable mitigation plans.  At the end of the day, the cruise lines will continue succeeding the cdc will keep trying to regain the dictator status, where they control everything.  What they really wanted was for cruising not to resume.  WhT. Hanged was the lawsuit.  

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I am upset about nothing.  I am crying about nothing. The facts the Cdc failed and failed big time.  The lawsuit got things moving.  Look at the dates.  After Desantis took them on, they started moving.  If he had not, there would not be any ships sailed.   The lawsuit gave them the ability to move forward.  Without the lawsuit, the same over reaching, untenable mitigation plans.  At the end of the day, the cruise lines will continue succeeding the cdc will keep trying to regain the dictator status, where they control everything.  What they really wanted was for cruising not to resume.  WhT. Hanged was the lawsuit.  

 

Awesome! Welcome to the party pal! 🛳️ 🚢 🥳 

 

Let's hope things continue to go smoothly and the successful CDC protocols continue to work. No one wants a repeat of the shyt-show of 2020 with horrible press, covid ships, tanking stock and suspended sailings. Things are looking up, hopefully they stay that way. 

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Awesome! Welcome to the party pal! 🛳️ 🚢 🥳 

 

Let's hope things continue to go smoothly and the successful CDC protocols continue to work. No one wants a repeat of the shyt-show of 2020 with horrible press, covid ships, tanking stock and suspended sailings. Things are looking up, hopefully they stay that way. 

From your lips…..

[balcony bound]

26 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I am upset about nothing.  I am crying about nothing. The facts the Cdc failed and failed big time.  The lawsuit got things moving.  Look at the dates.  After Desantis took them on, they started moving.  If he had not, there would not be any ships sailed.   The lawsuit gave them the ability to move forward.  Without the lawsuit, the same over reaching, untenable mitigation plans.  At the end of the day, the cruise lines will continue succeeding the cdc will keep trying to regain the dictator status, where they control everything.  What they really wanted was for cruising not to resume.  WhT. Hanged was the lawsuit.  

Exactly.  I've posted this quote before "Christine Duffy is therefore appreciative of governor DeSantis’s lawsuit against the CDC, as it will hopefully call for the CDC to move up their timelines or drop the CSO entirely."

[TNcruising02]

7 minutes ago, balcony bound said:

Exactly.  I've posted this quote before "Christine Duffy is therefore appreciative of governor DeSantis’s lawsuit against the CDC, as it will hopefully call for the CDC to move up their timelines or drop the CSO entirely."

Yes.  I am not sure why some people think the cruise lines weren't excited about the lawsuit.  It was to get cruising started again, which is something all of the lines wanted to do.   They say that the cruise lines weren't part of the lawsuit, but I believe it was the CEO out of Port Canaveral that said it was because the cruise lines will have to deal with the CDC long term.  

Cruising was completely shut down and the goal post to restarting kept moving, according to the lawsuit, so something needed to be done.  If not for the lawsuit, I do not think cruising would be happening at the moment.  It helped move things along.  I think some people just hate DeSantis because of his position on the vaccination passports, so they also hate him because of the lawsuit to get cruising started.  The CDC is not why cruises are successful right now.  It's because these businesses are able to operate now like every other business and industry has been able to do.  The airlines weren't even stopped for a day.  They were just told to keep things clean.

Edited July 10, 2021 by TNcruising02

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Yes.  I am not sure why some people think the cruise lines weren't excited about the lawsuit.  It was to get cruising started again, which is something all of the lines wanted to do.   They say that the cruise lines weren't part of the lawsuit, but I believe it was the CEO out of Port Canaveral that said it was because the cruise lines will have to deal with the CDC long term.  
 

 

The cruise lines said they prefer to negotiate with the CDC. The lawsuit and the Port Canaveral dude are irrelevant.

 

Getting ready to sail away now!

[cruisingguy007]

No use crying over spilled milk. Cruises have restarted successfully but many are focused on the CDC. Yes, the cruise lines will have to deal with them long term. Mrs. Duffy is right in acknowledging the roll the CDC plays as this surely won't be the last pandemic or large disaster type situation that will necessitate federal intervention, just like all the states do whenever there is a fire, flood, tropical storm etc etc etc and these things happen yearly for the most part. States will run to the feds anyway when something goes wrong so federal oversight makes sense and isn't so offensive to my sensibilities as it is to others. A pandemic isn't a state issue, it's a national one.  

[evandbob]

And all the extra charges and restrictions cruise lines have imposed for their unvaxxed guests leaving from Florida ports will hopefully keep the majority of unvaxxed from booking them,  thus providing a relaxing vacay for all the vaxxed guests.

Edited July 10, 2021 by evandbob

[MrMarc]

At this point I, and I'm guessing, and the cruise lines would prefer the CSO without the lawsuit.  At this point the lawsuit is creating uncertainty as to what the protocols will have to be, and when they were negotiating with the CDC they at least had some input.  Now that the Courts have taken control, they have no input, no control and have no idea when, how, or how many times the rules will change.  The CSO also provided a level playing field, without it every company can do as they please.  That could easily lead to a bad result and trouble for the entire industry.

[Elaine5715]

4 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

The proof is in the successful sailings. The protocols are working. Not even sure what people are angry about anymore, well except the folks that don't want to get vaccinated. Everyone else should be thrilled at the successful restart. Crying about the CDC trying to protect passengers is pointless at this point. The party has started and everyone is having fun. What good can the lawsuit accomplish at this point? 

The protocols are working?  That is like staying masks and "social distance" work.  No, they didn't .  You just didn't come into close enough or prolonged contact with someone infectious. 

[MrMarc]

46 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

The protocols are working?  That is like staying masks and "social distance" work.  No, they didn't .  You just didn't come into close enough or prolonged contact with someone infectious. 

When people followed them they worked.  They REDUCED the amount of the spread.  It was known that it was not, and it was never claimed, that it was a 100% preventative.  It was simply an easy thing that people could have done to reduce the number of people infected by 1 person.  But the reality is that while some people took it seriously and followed those recommendations, far tooo many people thought that doing silly things like that was for other people, not them.  So they had parties, visited family and friends, didn't wear their masks in the back room when the manager wasn't watching, found that bar or restaurant that wasn't enforcing any rules(many became celebrated because they fought "the man") and yes, even protested in the streets.  So we actually have no idea if the protocols would have worked, because as a group, we didn't follow them.  I'm not trying to argue the point, but the reality is this is what happened.  These type of prevention methods only work when they are followed by everyone, all the time.  That never happened in this country.

Edited July 11, 2021 by MrMarc

[firefly333]

28 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

When people followed them they worked.  They REDUCED the amount of the spread.  It was known that it was not, and it was never claimed, that it was a 100% preventative.  It was simply an easy thing that people could have done to reduce the number of people infected by 1 person.  But the reality is that while some people took it seriously and followed those recommendations, far tooo many people thought that doing silly things like that was for other people, not them.  So they had parties, visited family and friends, didn't wear their masks in the back room when the manager wasn't watching, found that bar or restaurant that wasn't enforcing any rules(many became celebrated because they fought "the man") and yes, even protested in the streets.  So we actually have no idea if the protocols would have worked, because as a group, we didn't follow them.  I'm not trying to argue the point, but the reality is this is what happened.  These type of prevention methods only work when they are followed by everyone, all the time.  That never happened in this country.

Just one opinion. No supporting facts. 

 

Of course it worked, there were no cruises so no outbreaks on cruises. What a theory.  Driving companies to bankruptcy isnt always the best way to resolve this. Let's give them a chance and see how they deal with the first positive instead of shutting them down. 

[MrMarc]

19 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Just one opinion. No supporting facts. 

 

Of course it worked, there were no cruises so no outbreaks on cruises. What a theory.  Driving companies to bankruptcy isnt always the best way to resolve this. Let's give them a chance and see how they deal with the first positive instead of shutting them down. 

Exactly what facts do you dispute?  Sometimes common sense and observation can lead you to a conclusion without the need for a scientific study to back up every idea.  We never actually had a secure lockdown anywhere in this country, our society encourages people not to follow rules, especially when there is no one watching to enforce them, that we don't like or inconveniences us (up to a point), it seems to be in our DNA.  And you are totally misinterpreting what I said in relation to cruises.  It is the new way to avoid obvious observations.   Where is your study to prove I'm wrong.  There isn't one, you just disagree with me.  That's fine, but the lack of a scientific study to prove or disprove things that are obvious is getting old.  Your suggestion is one way to approaching the problem, and it might work.  But in my opinion, given the possible outcomes of being wrong, it makes more sense to start off overly cautious and walk things back rather than the other way around.

[vicky3vicky]

Does this mean that all cruise lines out of Florida will be open to non-vaccinated people taking no precautions to protect others? If so, I am really scared.

[MrMarc]

3 minutes ago, vicky3vicky said:

Does this mean that all cruise lines out of Florida will be open to non-vaccinated people taking no precautions to protect others? If so, I am really scared.

Don't panick.  No one knows what any of this means.  We all just have to wait and see, really nothing we can do right now.

[TNcruising02]

7 minutes ago, vicky3vicky said:

Does this mean that all cruise lines out of Florida will be open to non-vaccinated people taking no precautions to protect others? If so, I am really scared.

No.  It means the cruise lines can use the CDC recommendations as guidance, just like the airlines, public transportation and businesses all across the US.  The cruise lines are businesses that are perfectly capable of running cruises just like amusement parks, hotels, restaurants, and every other business that has been permitted to open.  People who are fearful of cruising should wait it out.

Edited July 11, 2021 by TNcruising02

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, MrMarc said:

When people followed them they worked.  They REDUCED the amount of the spread.  It was known that it was not, and it was never claimed, that it was a 100% preventative.  It was simply an easy thing that people could have done to reduce the number of people infected by 1 person.  But the reality is that while some people took it seriously and followed those recommendations, far tooo many people thought that doing silly things like that was for other people, not them.  So they had parties, visited family and friends, didn't wear their masks in the back room when the manager wasn't watching, found that bar or restaurant that wasn't enforcing any rules(many became celebrated because they fought "the man") and yes, even protested in the streets.  So we actually have no idea if the protocols would have worked, because as a group, we didn't follow them.  I'm not trying to argue the point, but the reality is this is what happened.  These type of prevention methods only work when they are followed by everyone, all the time.  That never happened in this country.

So the people who got sick, it was their fault?

[rs45thompson]

13 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Yeah sure they did 6 months of silence till Desantis took them to court.  He is the hero in all this.  FACT. As mentioned hundreds of times, the virus will end when it ends.  THE POINT is cruising is cruising, as it should have been months ago.  I agree it is publicity stunt by the lowly CDC.  Missed you by a couple weeks for the drinks…..

I have heard this before that it was Desantis that got things moving.  I actually believe it was that hearing the head of the CDC had and the Alaska Senator or whoever was questioning her about the ships and cruising.  It looked like she had no idea they were in charge of the ships.  Not to soon after that things started moving.  I think the Desantis lawsuit was just a coincidence.  That's just my opinion.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, MrMarc said:

Exactly what facts do you dispute?  Sometimes common sense and observation can lead you to a conclusion without the need for a scientific study to back up every idea.  We never actually had a secure lockdown anywhere in this country, our society encourages people not to follow rules, especially when there is no one watching to enforce them, that we don't like or inconveniences us (up to a point), it seems to be in our DNA.  And you are totally misinterpreting what I said in relation to cruises.  It is the new way to avoid obvious observations.   Where is your study to prove I'm wrong.  There isn't one, you just disagree with me.  That's fine, but the lack of a scientific study to prove or disprove things that are obvious is getting old.  Your suggestion is one way to approaching the problem, and it might work.  But in my opinion, given the possible outcomes of being wrong, it makes more sense to start off overly cautious and walk things back rather than the other way around.

The countries had used draconian measures to lock in people had as much spread as those that did not.  Countries and states that did not imprison citizens had less suicides, fewer overdoses, less domestic violence incidents, keep their economies running. There are studies showing masks do not work to prevent the spread and there is  no evidence of spread from outdoor events.  And this "rules" certainly weren't applied across the board.. want to watch a baseball game?  Nope, not allowed.  Want to riot in the street..no problem.  I haven't seen the CDC do its job keeping COVID from crossing the southern border, not a peep

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, rs45thompson said:

I have heard this before that it was Desantis that got things moving.  I actually believe it was that hearing the head of the CDC had and the Alaska Senator or whoever was questioning her about the ships and cruising.  It looked like she had no idea they were in charge of the ships.  Not to soon after that things started moving.  I think the Desantis lawsuit was just a coincidence.  That's just my opinion.

I can point you to the interviews he did, the conference he initiated with the industry to gather info and more, but there is no point.  The real point is the CDC did NOTHING

[BlerkOne]

14 minutes ago, rs45thompson said:

I have heard this before that it was Desantis that got things moving.  I actually believe it was that hearing the head of the CDC had and the Alaska Senator or whoever was questioning her about the ships and cruising.  It looked like she had no idea they were in charge of the ships.  Not to soon after that things started moving.  I think the Desantis lawsuit was just a coincidence.  That's just my opinion.

I heard he pulled a muscle patting himself on the back. It was a coincidence.

[rs45thompson]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I can point you to the interviews he did, the conference he initiated with the industry to gather info and more, but there is no point.  The real point is the CDC did NOTHING

No need- I saw the interviews, the conferences he held with the cruiselines  and I believe the Mayor was involved too.  But if an industry doesn't know they are in charge of something - of course they aren't going to do anything because they aren't aware they are suppose to.  I think that it was terrible on her part that she didn't know what her agency was in charge of and it made her look incompetent. In saying that she was new to the job and was taking over in the middle of a pandemic.  

 

As long as we are finally cruising thats all that matters.